In my opinion Chelsea and Marc discussed this completely before they married. If they have children, hopefully they will celebrate the traditions and learn the beliefs of both religions and make their own choice when they are old enough to do so. My sister married a Mormon, she is a Methodist. They have 2 children, and both were taken to both houses of worship. One chose to be Mormon and one Methodist. My sister and brother-in-law have been married 30 years, and the children are 20 and 22, both attend their chosen faith, no confusion or regrets. No, it isn’t a combine of Jew and Gentile, but there are some major differences in the faiths.
I wish Chelsea and Marc the very best.

There is so little love in this world, when two people are able to combine their love to make a family, it is, perforce, a good thing.

It isn’t too bad when both are at least baptized Christians. When one is Christian and proclaims Christ as Messiah and the other does not-ugh. Think of the confusion in the children’s minds.

RomCath,
Jesus was a Jew.
Is he ‘ugh’, too?

I was not saying ugh to being Jewish. I was saying ugh to the mixed signals sent to the children of Christian marrying a Jew because of their totally different views on Jesus. What do you say to the kids, Mommy thing Jesus is the Messiah but Daddy doesn’t? What do we celebrate Easter or Passover? Hannukah or Christmas?
Is Jesus Son of God or isn’t he? Please.
Read and think before you comment.

coki roberts and her husband are an example of a successful intermarriage of a catholic and a jew.

“For those of nominal faith, this is no big deal.”
All I can honestly say is, what a presumptuous twit!
As if he knows what “nominal faith” is, but of course, according to his church and beliefs, they have it all. Human arrogance knows no bounds, especially when they think they can speak for god.
Why doesn’t your god speak out against it if it’s so bad? Perhaps the silence should be a lesson to you to stop all the presumptions of other peoples and faiths!

I was blessed to attend an all girl school in which people of every imaginable faith attended, (http://www.hockaday.org ),and loved it! Naturally, all the girls dated guys of every imaginable faith. Now, as grown adults, many of them have come to marry others of other religions, and some have changed their own religions as well. One of my close friends who is Jewish married a Roman Catholic man and both of them celebrate each other’s traditions, (including the prayerful moments…not just the holidays!). Both seek out the moral and ethical values their religions share and raise their children in accord with those. It is their plan to follow the example of many of their parents by giving the children exposure to instruction in both faiths and allowing the children permission to explore and choose for themselves which, if either faith, most feels right to them.
If anything, these interfaith marriages seem to cause the parents to become more consciously aware of each other’s spiritual loves than they were before, and they seem to gain respect for each other’s faith traditions along the way. Personally, I think these relationships are quite beautiful!

RomCath,
I do, actually read – the Bible – and try very hard to think before posting.
Even the Vatican allows as how there are other paths to God than exclusively through the Roman Catholic Church – Republican Sect.
If B16 can deal with it, you must.

nillawafer wrote: coki roberts and her husband are an example of a successful intermarriage of a catholic and a jew.
——————————-
Really? Or are they just examples of two people who didn’t believe enough in their religions to stand strong for those beliefs? A lapsed Catholic and a lukewarm Jew? Maybe neither one of those two people really cared about what SHOULD BE more important than anything else on this planet.
[ReThinking: you might find this video of interest. Dcn. G.]

“Even the Vatican allows as how there are other paths to God than exclusively through the Roman Catholic Church – Republican Sect.”
Panthera,
Outside the Church there is no salvation! You of all people should know that by now.

PS panthera,
I think Jesus does care about things like this. Why would you want to marry someone that doesn’t even believe in the same things you do?

Romancrusader,
Well, if B16 sees other paths to God (however flawed in his view), then I really think this is to be respected.
Personally, I detest Islam. I just haven’t got the faith to even tolerate that religion. So, yes, I fear we share this sin together.
My husband is not only an observant Catholic, but an Irish Catholic (the real kind, not American-Irish), so although we are both Christians, we certainly do not see eye to eye on many aspects of theology.
But we do agree on the exact same two commandments which Judaism and Christianity both recognize as God’s marching orders to us: Fear the Lord and show love to our neighbors.

How can you be an observant Catholic and yet be in an adulterous union?
“Well, if B16 sees other paths to God (however flawed in his view), then I really think this is to be respected.”
The Catechism disagrees with you. You’re off kilter once again.
[Roman...it might be fruitful -- for all concerned in this debate -- to re-read this section of the catechism, which explains the Church's relationship to other religions, and how God's grace can work outside of the Church to save souls. It notes: ""The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." Dcn. G. ]

Deacon,
The Muslims may adore God but imperfectly. And nor should we assume that they are automatically saved. In my opinion it’s going to be much harder for a non-Catholic to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That’s all I’m saying.

And to think, when my parents married a “mixed marriage” was wedding someone NOT of the same ethnic background, an ethnic German Catholic marries an ethnic Slovak Catholic, or an ethnic Italian Catholic marries an ethnic Hungarian Catholic.

Romancrusader – Sorry to say, your point of view on this one is not inline with Catholic teaching. I really believe that we can’t judge who is saved and who is not going to be saved. That decision is left for the one who judges and that is God our Father.
Dc Greg’s point, I believe, is that Muslims, Jews, and Christian all worship the same God, the God of Abraham. It would be difficult to say that the Jewish and Muslim faiths’ worship of God, compared to that of Christian worship of God, are flawed in the sense that salvation is not possible for them.
This is the stuff that makes wars happen in the world throughout history – is my faith the true faith and if it is, you better practice it too. You better practice it because it is my duty to save you too!
We, as Catholics, believe that we have the path to salvation and that path is the true path handed down from Jesus Christ and Scripture. This is not to say that we believe that we are the only ones saved but that we have the better course towards salvation because we are on the course set by the Son of God.

The crux of this post was about a mixed marriage between a Christian and a Jew. It had nothing to do with whether or not people of other faiths can be saved. Let’s get back on track here.
I think it is very difficult for one who professes Christ as Son of God and Messiah to marry someone whose opinion is diametically opposed to that position. I think it is extremely difficult for the children of such a union to figure out which opinion is right.
Celebrating both faith’s holidays is again a mixed signal to the children. I have found that often when the children grow up they follow neither religion.

I believe in God, and thats all I need. When I was in law enforcement I arrested more Catholics then any other religion, that shows you how good they are, they really follow God’s laws don’t they.

RomCath,
Just because a person of faith does not agree with you 100% on every single aspect of your personal beliefs does not mean they are not truly faithful to God.
That is for God to know – to us it is given the task of improving OUR relationship with HIM.
I see a very disturbing us trend among a significant number of conservative Christians – especially American – when it comes to people who are also Christian yet who do not have the exact same interpretation of the Bible:
Because they don’t see things your (the conservative Christian way) regarding unions or immigration or Jesus status as Messiah or many other topics, then they must be against and attacking your chosen view/lifestyle/cultural norm.
This is both uncharitable and a mistake.

The point as I see it is this. What do they teach the children about Jesus ? One says “He is the Christ, the son of God”. The other says he
is a liar, a blasphemer. If both are truly committed to their faith, how can they live together and raise a family ? Faith is not just
a thing you do occasionally. It is who you are. It can’t be bottled up
and used on holidays, if it’s real.

From what little I know, I don’t think the methodist, as a denomination takes a stand on many issues. This may be one of those issues. So I doubt her church is concerned about this. The jewish religion, however pretty staunch about such things. Even so, not every Jew is a practicing jew, not every Catholic is a procatising catholic and so on. And when all is said and done, love wins out. Best of luck to these two. Who knows, maybe she will introduce him to Jesus in a whole new “LIGHT”.

Man, after reading the preceding posts I just have to write one more. Some interesting comments above. DO any of you remeber that Moses took a wife from outside the jewish faith and God rebuked the jewish people for bad mouthing him about it? Yes, I know we are not to be “unequally yoked” and that does make it hard on the kids. But our place in this is to pray for them both. That is literally all we can do.
To Panthera- It’s not about cultural norms. Its about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If the norm becomes that we kill each other, does that seem like something that God would be ok with. Cultural norms are things that we think are OK, and has nothing to do with what God’s says is OK.
To TM- It wasn’t only the jews that sent Christ to the cross. It was the sins of the whole world. Yours and mine. He died for you and because of you. (and me)
To Ichanford – The religious ration in crime stats has a lot to do with where you live and work. Where I live, the majority of arrestees are Baptists, as am I. But the population is majority Baptists here. Satan brings down all and any who will listen to him. Jesus died for us all.
God bless you.

“It would be difficult to say that the Jewish and Muslim faiths’ worship of God, compared to that of Christian worship of God, are flawed in the sense that salvation is not possible for them.”
Mam/sir
The mass is perfect worship. You of all Catholics should know that.
“This is the stuff that makes wars happen in the world throughout history – is my faith the true faith and if it is, you better practice it too. You better practice it because it is my duty to save you too!”
Oh really?! Do expand.

Panthera writes: Just because a person of faith does not agree with you 100% on every single aspect of your personal beliefs does not mean they are not truly faithful to God.
Again you misinterpret. The most intimate realtionship any Christian has is with Jesus Christ-before any blood or spousal relationships. How can anyone who professes Christ as Savior and Messiah be compatible with anyone who does not accept that or may even be hostile to it. It doesn’t matter if that person is Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever. This is exactly why the Church has never ecouraged “mixed marriages” while permitting them. The Jewish religion certainly doesn’t encourage them either.
I find your constant use of “conservative Christians” as downright condescending and rude. As for your comment about BXVI’s “flawed reasoning” I find that beyond insulting for any Christian who professes to live by the 2 great commandments.

dj wrote:
To Panthera- It’s not about cultural norms. Its about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If the norm becomes that we kill each other, does that seem like something that God would be ok with. Cultural norms are things that we think are OK, and has nothing to do with what God’s says is OK.
endquote
OK – so are you saying that because my culture has a lower divorce rate, lower abortion rate, lower violent crime rate, supplied the world with B16 and is constitutionally opposed to discrimination against women and gays we are prone to killing? What on earth connection are you making?
I love Christ. He is my master. That does not mean I have to be a conservative Christian.
Honestly, the arrogance of many conservative Christians posting here is enormous.
RomCath wrote:
I find your constant use of “conservative Christians” as downright condescending and rude. As for your comment about BXVI’s “flawed reasoning” I find that beyond insulting for any Christian who professes to live by the 2 great commandments.
endquote
And I find the tendency of many conservative Christians here to support the death penalty and torture downright un-Christian.
As for your absurd contention that Cardinal Ratzinger’s comment at the other Christian denominations were flawed, my goodness – either you are looking to pick a fight or you are ignorant of at least two of the most important position statements to come out of the Vatican in the last several millennia.
Possibly, both.

“As for your absurd contention that Cardinal Ratzinger’s comment at the other Christian denominations were flawed, my goodness – either you are looking to pick a fight or you are ignorant of at least two of the most important position statements to come out of the Vatican in the last several millennia.”
Strawman argument. Vatican II and what Cardinal Ratzinger said do not contradict one another as you so imagine. This comes from people who have not even read Vatican II. Next time, do your research.

PS Panthera,
What Vatican II and Cardinal Ratzinger said regarding other Christian denominations are theologically the same thing.

romancrusader – perhaps Deacon Kandra can explain to you that I was neither criticizing nor contradicting what B16, as Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote.
I obviously can not.
Goodness – even if someone says something which is 100% in alignment with the Vatican, a non-zero number of you conservative Christians feel obligated to knee-jerk attack.
[Pan ... kindly knock off the "you conservative Christians" schtick, okay? I don't think you'd appreciate it if someone alluded to you, dismissively, as "you liberal Christians," as if it were a disease. Thank you. FWIW: I'm close to shutting down this thread, anyway, since it's devolving into the usual, predictable head-butting between you and one of your antagonists on the right. It's getting pretty wearisome. Dcn. G.]

It is true that marriages of mixed faith can work, can be very fruitful, can be very mutually enriching.
The comment about those of nominal faith is spot on. For those of only nominal faith, the difference of creed is not a big deal, because the creed is not all that important. But for those of more than nominal faith, it is a much bigger deal.
The reality is that this takes a lot of work. My experience has been that more often than not, these marriages are not mutually enriching, they are mutually depleting. The conflict is hard to maintain, and conflict avoidance leads to each just letting go a little more and a little more until a lowest common denominator is reached.
I, for one, think that mixed marriages are not a good idea. But this comes back to my own theology. If God is really my priority, if my faith is really central to my life, why would I want to marry someone with whom I could not share that? No amount of understanding and consideration can compare to sharing faith, can compare to communion. I simply would not want a marriage where I could not share the entirety of my being with my spouse.

Panthera writes: “As for your absurd contention that Cardinal Ratzinger’s comment at the other Christian denominations were flawed, my goodness – either you are looking to pick a fight or you are ignorant of at least two of the most important position statements to come out of the Vatican in the last several millennia.”
Vatican II said that while elements of truth exist in other communions, the fullness of truth subsists in the Catholic Church. Ergo, it follows that if they contain only elements (ie. those tings we hold in common)and not the fullness, they are flawed.
Nothing confusing there. Rather clear.
A more recent document virtually repeats the same concept. I don’t know how to make it clearer.

Pan wrote: My husband is not only an observant Catholic, but an Irish Catholic (the real kind, not American-Irish), so although we are both Christians, we certainly do not see eye to eye on many aspects of theology.
I am wondering exactly what brand of Catholicism your “husband” observes? I think you have said before you were in a same sex “marriage”.

Deacon Kandra,
This is why I like to publish entire documents from the Vatican as well as to use Latin whenever possible – there is no room for interpretation.
Given the intractable situation, I will leave off any further comments on this thread, that you need not close it.

Vatican II, LUMEN GENTIUM, #8:
This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure.
Can it be any clearer? It is exactly what I said earlier.

RomCath, you think that children will be confused by different religious views of their parents. Children are very accepting of what they are told/taught. If Dad believes one thing, and Mom another, they accept that. They have the experience of learning and celebrating holidays and rituals and beliefs of both faiths. When they are old enough, they decide for themselves which, if any, of the beliefs they are taught, they accept or reject. No confusion. There is not one true religion, and no one way to God, that is what is important. Children learn that probably faster in a mixed marriage than in a single faith marriage. What do you say about children of mixed race marriage? They will be confused if Dad is black and Mom is white, or the other way around? They are a blend of both. Is that a problem? No, not anymore than a mixed faith marriage would be.
Mary Ann T-F:
Excellent points in your post!!

Pagan, children need to learn and be formed in their faith from the earliest age not when they are old enough to decide. You don’t think it is confusing to celebrate Christmas and Easter when one parent doesn’t even believe in Jesus let alone Jesus as Messiah? Give me a break. This casual attitude toward faith is not surprising. One’s faith should define one’s being and shape everything that we are and do.
As far as “there is not one true faith”, that is baloney. They can’t all be “true”. Some contain common elements of truth–all Christians believe in Christ but there are many differences. I think the quote from Vatican II sumes up what Catholics believe. If you don’t, it matters little to me.
As far as children of mixed race, I am sure in the past there were many obstacles faced. I don’t think it is much of an issue today. It has nothing to do with mixed religion.

RomCath:
True faith is defined by the person following it. To a Jewish person, their faith is the true faith, to a Catholic, their faith is the true faith, to a Muslim, their faith is the true faith. Get the picture? Yes, they most certainly can all be “true”. It depends on who is doing the defining. Faith is not a “one faith fits most” or there most certainly wouldn’t be so many different religions, huh? I totally disagree that there is only ONE faith that is the real deal.
Yes, children can be raised in a single faith or mixed faiths, which you still seem to think will confuse them. Even those indoctrinated from the beginning in a single faith doesn’t guarantee a follower when they are old enough to start questioning, as hopefully they will do. No one should accept things they are told without questioning and thinking if they can accept that answer. Somehow being told that that is THE way it is, because a divine being said so doesn’t cut it for everyone. Thus those who leave a faith or change faiths, or just plain say, forget it altogether. I was raised in a single faith, and totally questioned it as I got older. Not my parents fault that I left it as they beleived what they were teaching me. I just found it a little like make believe, fairy tale stuff. However my 2 sisters have remained devout Christians. 1 out of 3 isn’t bad.

“I totally disagree that there is only ONE faith that is the real deal.”
I really couldn’t care less what you feel. This is a Catholic blog and I am only saying what the Catholic church teaches and what Catholics must believe. Of course, if someone belongs to a particular faith, they think it is the true one or they are fools to follow it. All religions can’t be true as they often contradict each other eg. Christianity and Judaism re Jesus.
If you believe this is all “fairy tale stuff” why are you wasting your time on here anyway? End of discussion.

RomCath:
I’m certainly not out to get you to care about my opinions, however I’m free to express them. Why am I here? Because I can be. I like discussing ideas/beliefs from all religions, as there is much to admire from all of them and some things to disagree with. You are obviously under no obligation to comment on my comments. End of discussion. Hope your minutes, hours and days are just as you want them to be. (and I still contend that all religions can be true eg. Judaism and Christianity have GOD in common )) Bye now. It’s been fun!!
Blessed Be

“Why am I here? Because I can be.”
Sounds profound. Nothing more profound you could be doing than offering opinions about Catholicism of which you are not a part? Opinions can be wrong.
You made my point, Jews and Christians have God in common–there are elements of truth in all faiths. They are not both fully true. Logically they can’t be since they contain opposite opinions re Jesus Christ.
Subjectively everyone thinks theirs is true, objectively only one can be. Get it? Or do you always have to have the last word?

Yes, most certainly opinions can be wrong, as everyone is “guilty”of that at times, RomCath. I read many that may be incorrect as do you.
I spent 10 years among Catholics when I taught in an RC school. No, not a life time, but good times.
Not fully true is your opinion.
Nope.

“Not fully true is your opinion.”
Well it isn’t just my opinion, it is my belief. And the teaching of Vatican II and the Church from the beginning. Your opinion does not make it untrue–it is untrue to you.
I don’t really care, but if someone with a logical brain could let me know how two totally contradictory beliefs can both be fully true, it would be interesting to learn. Is Jesus the Son of God/Messiah or is He not?

OK,RomCath, it is your “belief.” not an “opinion”. No problem with that.
I don’t know, is Jesus the Son of God/Messiah or is He not? The answer would be different depending on who you asked, wouldn’t it? To me Jesus was indeed a great teacher and prophet. To others He is most certainly the Son of God/Messiah. So there is really no single answer to that question. You, I’m sure believe He is the Son of God. To a Jew, He isn’t. To a Muslim, He is a teacher/prophet. To many others He is the teacher/prophet.
BTW, what has this to do with Chelsea and Marc? Oh, right, the mixed religion part. Not even thinking I can speak for them, but my guess is if they have children, they will benefit from the 2 different religions being taught to them. The more knowledge one has of different religions the better off the world would be. Children of mixed religions get a head start with that information, taught to them with love and caring.
It’s been real, RomCath. Think we have come to an impass. Looking forward to reading your “beliefs” and opinions again!

“The answer would be different depending on who you asked, wouldn’t it? To me Jesus was indeed a great teacher and prophet. To others He is most certainly the Son of God/Messiah.”
Exactly! Both can’t be true which is my point. Black isn’t white and white isn’t black and never can be.
Subjective truth and objective truth are 2 different things. One of the main problems today is relativism. Something is true if you think it is true. Thinking doesn’t make it so. Read Splendor Veritatis.
Enough said on this topic.

“Enough said on this topic.’ RomCath
Amen to that!

They are grown ups and knew they each came from different faith aspects.. Their respective faiths are not that far apart and share a common starting point.. Best wishes to the happy couple

Remember, if you believe in everything, you believe in nothing.

Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE COMES UNTO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.”
How on Earth can I explain to my child that my wife – who believes there are other roads to Heaven – is basically in disagreement with Jesus? I’m not talking about WORDS. I’m talking about living my life (really, surrendering my life) to the will and instruction of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit so that my child – who is watching my life and watching to see if I WALK as I TALK – understands my belief.
All this talk about interfaith marriages really frustrates me. There are central tenets to Christianity that are distinct and un-compromising. This is also true of Islam and Judaism, as well as other faiths. I do not accept the teachings of Mohammed. Period. Why would I choose to marry a Muslim, and then have a child with her, and then expect my child to be able to reconcile that I say I am subject and loyal to God (NOT Allah) and yet I feel the liberty to attach myself to someone who denies that Jesus is the Son of God? This can ONLY bring confusion, or the same general malaise that is rampant in today’s culture – relativitism. “Whatever you believe is good for you.” “All roads lead to Heaven.”
If that were true, then why on earth did Jesus sacrifice all?
Interfaith marriages are all about compromise. The world is big on this whole “tolerance” thing… but that is FAR DIFFERENT from what Jesus taught. It is also different from what Mohammed taught. There are central tenets that are not open to compromise. Period.

Pagansister writes: “To me Jesus was indeed a great teacher and prophet. To others He is most certainly the Son of God/Messiah. So there is really no single answer to that question.”
Really? Because two people disagree, then neither one is correct? If I stand in the middle of the highway with an 18-wheeler bearing down on me, and one person shouts “you are going to die if you don’t move” and another person shouts “you’re fine, stay where you are,” does their disagreement mean that neither one is correct???
We are talking about LIFE and DEATH, people. Not fairy tales. Not how do you spend your Easter Holiday. Not what do you give up during Lent.
pagansister also writes: “my guess is if they have children, they will benefit.”
How so? And how would we ever know if their children have ULTIMATELY benefited? In terms of life enrichment, okay, maybe, they’ll be better informed about things. But what if they should die – as statistics suggest that 9-out-of-9 people do – then they may very well be faced with my question regarding the 18-wheeler…
It is difficult enough to raise a child in a God-less home with the culture as it is right now, saturated with pre-pubescent sexuality, moral relativism, and a general disdain for Jesus and all things Christian. It is also quite difficult to raise a child in a Christian home, again with all the rampant sexuality and sensuality and carnality and godlessness our culture seems to want to engage more and more.
Interfaith parenting teaches a child (maybe not so much in words, but in principle) that “whatever road you take, Junior, is okay with us.” With all due respect, that is NOT okay with me. And for all you so-called Christians posting on this site, please explain to me – how do you reconcile that attitude/mindset with “enter through the narrow gate, because wide is gate that leads to destruction and there are MANY who go in by it.”

How come the media isn’t talking about her father-in-law?