Everyday Ethics

Everyday Ethics

The Rules: How to Date Honestly (Or Too Honestly)

posted by Padmini Mangunta | 7:22pm Saturday May 30, 2009

candlelitdinner.jpgYou’re on a first date, gazing into the eyes of the perfectly lovely (or handsome) person across from you, when they casually mention that they don’t have plans to marry, ever. Or to marry someone white. Or perhaps Jewish. Or Catholic. Or left-handed, for that matter.

Regardless of how they fill in that blank, this is probably a date from which you’re already hatching the quickest possible escape plan. After all, who is this joker? It’s one date! The first date no less.

Or is stating your intentions so blatantly the right thing to do?  I know a surprising number of people who have very set and defined ideas of who they want to eventually end up with, and the possibility that they just might fall in love with the “wrong” person matters not at all. But that doesn’t mean they stop dating people they deem, for whatever reason, unsuitable.  So do they owe that person the details of their master plan from date #1?


I don’t know. On the one hand, it seems a little crazy. Imagine a
scenario like the one above – that’s just strange. In this day and age
it’s simply not done to be so upfront about your motives and plans. You
have to play the game, talk the talk, be coy…or the other person thinks
you’re nuts.

But what’s so wrong (and isn’t it actually right?) with being open and
honest –letting the other person know your intentions, and allowing
them to decide if they want to continue seeing you, even knowing that
the precious time they’re using on you is leading nowhere. Dating has
become more and more casual, but I still would say the number one
incentive to date is to find a potential
partner
. Is it ethical
to date someone when you have no intention of ever becoming serious?

As a first-generation Indian daughter, the whole concept of dating is
new to my family. Trust me, it was a big deal to get started. By my
recollection, I started prepping my parents for my eventual foray into
the world of dating when I was 12. It was completely against the Indian
culture, but I didn’t care. I had been born into the Western culture,
and by God, I wanted to take part in it.

By the time I was in college, my parents had become accustomed to the
idea. However, even now, with an adult daughter still testing the
waters, my mom has the bad habit of asking after the intentions of every man
I date. Sometimes she manages to wait until the 3rd date before
quizzing me about his salary, job prospects and family history. Oh, and
if he’s ok marrying someone Indian and Hindu.  

Though I’ve finally broken her of this habit (I think?), and convinced
her that not every single date or series of dates must result in
marriage, I do get where she’s coming from. In her world, marriages are
an intricate arrangement of matching personalities, families and yes,
careers.  Dating is a type of micro-matching.  And if I followed her
customs, then sure, I’d want to know what’s what upfront. Let me add,
my mom is a fair woman – she’s equally concerned that the guy I’m
dating knows that I may not be interested in him in the long run.

For my part, I don’t really worry about telling people my intentions
(or lack thereof) from the beginning. I’ve always been open to the idea
of dating someone different than myself, Indian or not.  I’m open to
changing my mind, as long as my heart follows. I put a great deal of
weight in the importance of the heart – well over differences in
religion
, culture and whatever else might be at conflict.

However, I
understand that for many people, these differences are not negotiable.
(Sidenote: my opinion is that usually men find these differences
non-negotiable, rather than women. Is that just my biased female-self
talking?)
And if that’s the case, I want to hear them tell me pretty
darn quickly if I have no place in their future. Sure, it’d be a strange
conversation, and I’d probably have a hilarious time with
my girlfriends in the re-telling, but I’d appreciate the respect – and
the warning.


How about you? Is that what you want to hear on a first, second or third date?



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Albert the Abstainer

posted May 30, 2009 at 11:09 pm


First dates are filters to determine if someone is unsuitable. It is why you always, (well almost always), keep a lot of the real you hidden, selectively revealing bits that are hopefully interesting but not weird. A person who states his or her intentions from the get-go is looking to be rejected. And yet, stringing someone along is not honourable. And so, there is this delicate dance, which hopefully results in either heading towards “being serious”, or moving on before it is userous.
Something else to keep in mind is that men tend to be driven towards sex over commitment, (and no that is nothing new). Men also tend to be more romantic while women are more pragmatic. I hold that being female with the attendant challenges of providing for children in a very direct way brings with it less risk taking and a more cautious mindset. All this is a long way of saying that I agree with your point that men are more likely to string women along than the other way round.
If a date is a right-off, I usually know, and I expect the other person does as well. It is when it falls into the in-between zone that things become difficult. If it falls into that area, I would prefer to go out a few more times, but then as that becomes more and more established, a few more leads to a few more, and there is a feeling of being vested in a relationship, (even if it is delusional.) These are the things that make dating tricky, and it is what makes a breakup tougher after a year than a month, or a month more than a few dates. Most men, even when they realise this is not the woman for them have trouble calling it off. They don’t want to be a schmuck, and yet by not addressing it when they know, they prolong a deception and make the eventual breakup worse. Men are not alone in this, though I expect it is more common for men.
Bedroom and dating ethics could fill a book, and in Western society the rules or protocols are all but non-existent. In an odd way, you may find the traditional way of arranged marriages far less bewildering. At least everyone understands the rules, the process, and the outcome, without that particular angst which results from the under-defined mating rituals of the West. Somehow we muddle our way through, one way or the other, but look at all the collateral damage that is often left in the wake of the Western way.
One thing that is useful is having a clear vision (in broadstrokes) of what you want. The other thing is to always treat those you date fairly, including being honest when it is the right thing to do, and keeping your own council when it isn’t.



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Teej

posted May 31, 2009 at 12:51 am


For me, this is a question of what the default position is. If we all generally believe and understand that a date or a relationship is for the purpose of evaluating marriage as an option, then yes, if you’re that crazy outlier, it may be your social responsibility to slip, at some point, in that you’re not looking for marriage. (It’s tougher, of course, if you ARE looking for marriage, but not with that particular person.)
But is this assumption-of-marriage world the world in which we live? It’s not the world in which I live. Perhaps it’s regional (I’m in New York City), but I think it’s safe to say that not every pairing, even for bona fide dates and relationships, contains even one person who thinks they may marry the other.
My opinion: people need to take it upon themselves to ask when they want to know. The other half, of course, is that people also need to answer truthfully when asked. You’re setting yourself up for disappointment, an unpleasant surprise, and wasted time if you simply assume that the other person sees potential for marriage in your future if you’re still seeing each other.



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J

posted June 2, 2009 at 12:15 pm


“You’re setting yourself up for disappointment, an unpleasant surprise, and wasted time if you simply assume that the other person sees potential for marriage in your future if you’re still seeing each other.” Really?
I mean, although I’m the girl who usually feels like a guy in relationships, I have to say that I just don’t see the point in dating without the belief that things could move toward marriage (not that I’m saying any guy who gets a second date is someone I want to marry but is instead just not cut from that list yet). Having random hookups are one thing…but any kind of emotional investment with someone you know you don’t want to be with seems like emotional self-abuse and in the end a disservice to the person you do end up being with (if you think you want to be married some day). Because if you know you want to be with a (for instance) Indian Hindu woman, but spend your whole dating life in relationships with blond Europeans, you’re ultimately putting even more questions in the heart of your future spouse. Yes?



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V

posted June 4, 2009 at 5:32 am


I agree that the goal of dating is marriage however I think a more intermediate goal of dating is self discovery through a process of trial and error. Through the process of dating you learn a myriad of things about yourself. This process will ultimately lead you to ‘the one’ (in theory at least). I doubt that most people go on a first date with the presumption that they are going to end up marrying their date; the odds are stacked highly against it. (Sidebar- if all, but hopefully one, of the individuals you date ultimately end in failure why do we get so excited about first dates? Not to be a cynic, but the odds that your next date will be ‘the one’ are steeper odds than winning the lottery.) I think that most people go on dates in search of that perfect person fully aware hearts will be broken and time will be lost in the process. Nonetheless, through trial and error we come up with a checklist of characteristics that we are in search of for any future partners. Any subsequent date you agree to go on will either conform to your master checklist or won’t. If they don’t then that means you are either willing to have history repeat itself or are willing to compromise.
That being said, I think there is a BIG difference between what characteristics you want in your partner and what characteristics that you are expected to want in said partner (via the norms of society, family, religion, culture, tradition, etc). Sadly, I think most people place a higher value in the ‘what is expected checklist’ because people care too much about what other people think and fail to make a distinction between two categories. Nonetheless, this brings about two possibilities.
The first possibility is when your ‘deal breaker’ quality is listed both on your personal checklist as well as the what is expected checklist. If a person’s personal requirements matched with the requirements that are expected of them to have, then I highly doubt they would even consider going out on a first date with an individual that doesn’t satisfy the requirement. In the rare instance that they do accept a first date with an individual that doesn’t conform to their matching checklists, then I think this type of person should be upfront about their intentions.
The second possibility is when your purported ‘deal break’ quality is listed on one checklist but not the other. Here, I don’t think an individual should state their intentions on a first date. As previously stated, I strongly believe that the goal of dating is self discovery, and the process of finding ‘the one’ is that of trial and error as oppose to exact science. When the two checklists don’t match up I think there can be room for compromise and your purported ‘deal breaking’ quality can be overcome by other amazing qualities the date holds. In light of this, I think people will be surprised by what they learn about themselves by dating someone that, in theory, is all wrong for them. To preempt this, by stating your intentions outright, would hamper reaching the ultimate goal of dating- finding the one. Plus, you never know, the person that you thought was all wrong for you might end up being ‘the one’.



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