Hi, Jim. Great stuff on your blog, as always. Everything you've proposed here is extremely reasonable and I hope that such rationality can prevail in the coming months of the decision-makers in Washington. I also had a question: what are your thoughts on the recent federal court ruling that does not recognize the power of an Executive Order to designate terrorist groups? And while this debate rages on the Iraqi war, on a more general note, do you think that there may be too much damage done to the office of the President, rather than holding Bush himself accountable for abuses in office? Because while I believe that whatever should be done to restrict and correct the unreasonable and irresponsible actions of a particular person, I wonder about what precedents will be set on the office of the President after Bush is gone. Is the next President, quite likely a non neo-con, going to find her/himself with a position that lacks teeth and a hand tied behind his/her back?>

Posted by: E.S. | November 29, 2006 9:25 PM

condemnation of the premise of the war

True but the premise is being increasinlgy called into question - oyu may recall that the cabal of intellectuals who cheered this war on now say that it was a bad idea.

certainly not a statement that the Bush administration is war-profiteering

No, but at least now Congress will now have a chance to properly investigate the daylight robbery that has been going on in Iraq.

After all of the bluster ...

Probably a more apt description for Iraq policy over the last three years.>

Posted by: splinterlog | November 29, 2006 10:26 PM

I for one have no great wisdom about how to get out of Iraq. I know that, what with oil and geopolitical considertions, the stakes in this war are higher than Vietnam. We must. however, take a lesson from this failed situation. We should always remember, as we should have learned in Vietnam that intervention in other countries is always fraught with risks. Just remember the experience of the British in fighting American revolutionaries in our war of independence. We need to keep our prioroties straight--Osama attacked us and it was stupid to divert ourselves from defending against him to an unrelated situation in Iraq.

We get the leaders we deserve--when we vote for slogans and advertsing, instead of issues and accomplishment, we get people like Bush instead of Al Gore or John Kerry. At least, both of those men served honorably, instead of hiding in the National Guard, like Bush, or "having other prioroties" like Cheney.>

Posted by: Richard L. Bond | November 29, 2006 11:16 PM

Ahh yes the liberal that wants to be a Christian gets it wrong again!! Jesus no deep reflection about biblical truth. And He did not advocate it. Very simply he spoke truth not philosophy. Is it wrong to oppress people? Yes. Is it wrong to slaughter hundreds of thousands? Yes Should Christ followers continue to pretend that all religions are "OK" and no one is really wrong? NO!!

As we continue to grow our government we diminish our God. We tell those in need to look to dictators, and government leaders instead of a relationship with Christ. We are live for, work for and die for Christ. Those that do will be honored for it before His Father in heaven.

Yes lets put leaders in place to subsidize abortion, poverty(slothfullness), and sexual immorality. Yes lets make the choice to build the United States of Sodom and Gomorrah. OOPS did I use scripture to clearly define right and wrong. Maybe I should have reflected more.>

Posted by: Erik | November 29, 2006 11:37 PM

Jim,
I heard you speak in Colorado Springs and I respected a lot of the things you said. This rant against President Bush makes me angry though. You must be kidding yourself if you think that this man would knowingly cause the deaths of thousands of people (Americans and Iraqis) just because he is stubborn or living in denial. I want us out of Iraq, most Americans do, and certainly the rest of the world does. President Bush's pride is not what the issue is. He is not causing people to blow themselves up. He is not the zealot. The murdering wimps who commit suicide and kill innocent people are to blame. How could the ouster of Hussein cause such things? It wouldnt. We are dealing with fanatics and they are to blame. They have taken their religious beliefs too far. We need to get out, but cutting and running because it looks like we want oil is wrong and irresponsible.>

Posted by: Adam | November 30, 2006 12:33 AM

Jim,

With a title "three ways to stop the course in Iraq" I expected to read a plan for stopping the course in Iraq. Instead, the article was another diatribe against the Bush administration. The three items that you listed are long term plans - not solutions. We are now faced with two clear choices: Withdraw with whatever dignity that we can muster and see what happens, or increase our force levels, provide real security, and rebuild Iraq (as we should have in the first place). The latter hardly seems politically feasible and the former might produce horrible consequences.

I am certainly not going to defend the way that the civilians in this administration have carried out the war. They made grave mistakes from the very beginning. Some of them certainly resulted from hubris, and some from neglecting military advice. The solution to the problem is not clear and may involve consorting with two corrupt regimes to build some semblance of security.

Please stop pretending that you have a solution. Your writing seems too much like a political speech, with very little meat at the core. As an organization, if you are against the war - advocate a complete and timely withdrawal. Or give another plan. If you are going to berate the Bush's war policy, you must present some real ideas. If real ideas about difficult and complicated foreign policy problems are outside the scope of the organization, then stop commenting on them and focus on the core values of the organization. The constant badgering of the Bush administration seems like the writing of an angry man - not a man looking to change the course of the country.>

Posted by: Kevin | November 30, 2006 12:46 AM

Jim's comments are great, as far as they go, and they make sense in terms of domestic politics. It's a good position to hold today, and it's moral.

Unfortunately, I think it's optimistic. As I heard somebody say once, "Sometimes you mess things up so bad that all you can do is borrow money from all your friends and leave town."

My best bet is that the fighting in Iraq won't stop until one side wins. That doesn't mean there are only two sides. It just means that until some force inside Iraq successfully dominates the others, the fighting won't stop.

That sounds terrible, but, of course, that's what happened in Vietnam, and now, many years later, that result doesn't seem so bad.

The big worry now is destabilizing the region. Remember the "domino theory?" That was the worry in Southeast Asia. And Iran and Iraq fought recently for eight years without everyone else in the region getting involved.

As much as we'd like to "search for the practical and honorable ways to leave Iraq while seeking to help ensure its security and the political resolution of its future," it may well be that continuing to be involved, even with the best of intentions, will only prolong the inevitable, which is that the Iraqis are going to have to end this themselves.

The real issue now that is driving politics and diplomacy is who is going to save face. Probably that will continue until some defining event on the ground takes place.

Sometimes you mess up so bad that you don't even get to atone, much as you'd like to. Then you just have to move forward and try to do better in the rest of the world. Hopefully, you're more humble, less aggressive, more compassionate.

God knows there's enough to do, and not to do.

God forgive us, indeed.>

Posted by: Tim Haight | November 30, 2006 1:01 AM

Thanks for focusing our attention once again on the serious situation in Iraq. Thank you for continuing to speak up. Your leadership and witness before the war began gave so many courage and hope, may Christians and others of faith join you in stopping this war.>

Posted by: Will | November 30, 2006 1:26 AM

Jim,
Thank you for your thoughtfulness. I agree with what you said, and i've enjoyed your books. I can only hope though that the recently elected Congress does a bit better. Not one party is right and one party wrong, meaning we can't expect everything we want from a democrat congress anymore than we could from a republican congress. But I certainly hope and pray that the voices of the faithful resonate and that congress heed's the call that we feel they've been given. No more innocent bloodshed. Please God, Please.>

Posted by: Steven | November 30, 2006 1:42 AM

What would you write to the president of Iran? The letter that he wrote is meant to show that he is a caring person and get those of us who are liberal and or democratic on his agenda.Ha ! that would be funny if it wasn't so ludicris. But lets say he did mean what he said and for the right reasons . The answer I would give is that we would be stupid to trust their government and they would be stupid to trust ours. Since only the people in the countries can be taught eventually to get along .There is a little back country town in the Palestinian territory welcoming and treating it's so called adversaries as friends and healing those who have been injured in the war etc. That we can get along in our country with other nationalities is possible.As long as people don't try to enforce their belief systems on others. We give everyone at least a chance to be happy in our country. We only require the treatment of others with respect too. At least that is the ideal we set forth as a country. But we have slipped a long ways. We condemn the persecution of other nationalities in other countries AND SOMETIMES it's own people while our own corporations do exactly that plus take jobs out of our country to make a cheap buck on the backs of foreigners. The ultra rich illuminati types or neo cons use people . In fact that is HOW we decided we needed more oil rather than really going into alternative fuels and energy generation FULL FORCE. Why have so many technologies which would have freed us been knocked down by the powers that be so that mankind stays in thrall to those who make money from our dependance on them .If one can't see the conspiracy there and see "theory" is a word meant to denigrate the truth then those people are truly blind.The truth is that the war was set up from the beginning , it is so obvious that it is CRAZY to believe other wise. WHO COULD BE GAINING FROM THE WAR, HOW MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF VULTURES ARE THERE USING THE BLOOD OF OUR CHILDREN TO STEAL SOMEONE ELSES OIL. They are playing us. Look deeper and you can see perfectly well that there IS A CONSPIRACY AND THE GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD HAVE FALLEN INTO THE TRAP SET UP FOR THEM BY AN OUTSIDE FORCE. You figure out who or what that is. Aliens? the devil? Maybe the aliens are what used to be called devils who knows but unless people wake up and read between the lines nobody will ever be able to get to the truth.There may be a new movie coming out where David Ike is playing himself that will be on Sci Fi channel hopefully if they don't get shut down for the truth, too. If you don't know about some of the things I am talking about then type in the URL bar any of the unfamiliar things I have brought up and you will get your answers.>

Posted by: muretta | November 30, 2006 1:59 AM

Fred wrote:

By the tone of many letters and people speaking in our country today, we are blaming the Iraqi people for the terrible conditions in their country.

With all due respect, Fred, I think there's plenty of blame to go around, and the people of Iraq are not blameless: The government -- democratically elected by and accountable to the people of Iraq -- either cannot or will not take action against Shiite militias. That's a huge failure for a government that's supposed to protect all Iraqis.

Even if we want to remain nonjudgmental, this is a fact we have to account for in our own decision making; if the US withdraws too quickly, those Shiite militias are likely to become even more dangerous and vengeful.

I would also add that the anti-war left may have had its own part in bringing about this war. By focusing entirely on Bush (not to mention Halliburton) and failing to confront corruption in the UN, especially the oil-for-food program, the pacifist left may have nudged American leaders towards war by heading off the one peaceful alternative the world had, a strong sanctions and inspection regime directed by a vigilent UN.

Father B. wrote:

To those who think Jim Wallis should have given a plan, he did. He told us to reflect so we could come up with the solution, or at least get us on the road to one.

Anyway, the left is convinced that Bush is either a fool or a monster or both. They don't have an answer to the Iraq conundrum, but they are sure that, if we sit down and think real hard, someone will come up with one.

The question is, what over the last several years has prevented all you geniuses on the left from doing all that thinking and coming up with an answer already? Please don't tell me you can't think straight when you are out of power.

Wolverine>

Posted by: Wolverine | November 30, 2006 2:30 AM

"...George Bush says he is responsible for this war, and he is. But we are all now responsible for stopping this war...".

Thank you, Jim Wallis.

I agree. Those of us who recognize the reality of this must repeatedly ask our representatives in congress to do what they can do to change the course the administration has set, with the initial decision to invade Iraq and the subsequent decisions to disqualify the top four levels of the government, the military, and the police.

Hopefully, at some point the state of denial will shift to a state of acceptance of reality.>

Posted by: Mike Hayes 2 | November 30, 2006 2:52 AM

Expanding on my earlier post, here's a hypothetical for you guys to ponder:

Instead of hurling all its anger at Bush, Jim Wallis and Sojourners take a two-track approach to Iraq. On one hand, they oppose an invasion, on the other they urge their allies on the left to press for reforms at the UN in order to assure that there is a workable non-military option available.

In particular they call for a thorough investigation of the oil-for-food scandal. They call on Security Council members to come clean about deals with Saddam Hussein.

The anti-war left sees the wisdom of this approach, and as a result of all the new scrutiny from those who had been its supporters in the past, the UN toughens its sanctions and inspections program.

The true extent of Iraq's WMDs are known thanks to frequent and thorough inspections that Hussein is powerless to prevent in the face of a suddenly united and determined Security Council.

As it is revealed convincingly that Iraq has little in the way of usable WMDs, Democratic leaders like John Kerry are able to oppose war with confidence, and support for war wanes even among Republicans.

Eventually a cadre of Iraqi military leaders stages a coup and removes Hussein from power in order in hopes of terminating the WMD program and freeing Iraq from the burden of UN sanctions.

After a week of fighting, Hussein kills himself in his Baghdad palace, and his sons flee the country. Baath party leaders are rounded up and put on trial.

The new Iraqi government, while hardly democratic, appears to be less brutal than the Hussein regime. Mostly secular in nature, the generals view religious extremists with caution, aware that some radical Islamic groups had made at least tentative contact with the Hussein regime.

All this might have happened (maybe) if someone on the left (like maybe Jim Wallis?) had had the intelligence to see that George Bush was not the only threat to world peace out there.

Wolverine>

Posted by: Wolverine | November 30, 2006 3:16 AM

"That's just taking responsibility for all the horrible damage we have done"

It is great writing that you are doing; however, I think it is now time to get rid of the tradition of saying "we". "We" did not do the damage; "they" did. But on the other hand, you may have a point, since it is our wounded society that manifested the conditions that were sufficient for these ignorant and insecure men to become leaders.>

Posted by: tomas | November 30, 2006 3:48 AM

Geeez....ALOT of verbiage generated from this article (including some calling Jim Wallis "the anti-christ"?!?!?!).

Anyway....I think the three points Jim Wallis raises for Iraqi re-construction are well-taken, although I think the 3rd one will be the hardest to implement. It will be pretty hard to have American companies come into to Iraq to re-build without troops there to protect them.

Also, I think Jim Webb's 'cold' response to Bush the other day will position him well as an out-spoken critic of the Iraqi war in the days ahead. He is uniquely positioned, having served under Reagan, to help re-shape the failed Iraqi policies.>

Posted by: Kris Weinschenker | November 30, 2006 4:02 AM

Was the sermon on the mount full of humility? It was near sarcastic. Are Jeremiah's words kind? No they condemn. Don't forget that condemnation of wrong is not wrong. Judgement is wrong. Continue to love your brother, even when he does wrong. Don't just let him continue! Be a teacher (prophet). Speak truth to the actions, let God judge the heart.

Diatribe? Against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others? Yes! Please do. This is an unjust war. No one asked for it. It was handed down by those who think they know. Especially a man who claims to pray and ask God for guidance; none other than G.W.B.

I have been praying (through countless tears) for a gift of discernment for this nation.

All alternate strategies aside! The bottom line is...Don't believe those with a track record of ideological disillusion. Not even Bush 2's father would believe the neo-cons (Feith, Rumsfeld, Cheney). "Get behind me Satan!"

I cannot believe it ever went this far. I was terrified by the agenda put forth by this war. It went against every Biblical truth. The God I know is NOT one who provides "freedom" at the end of the barrel of a gun. This administration is fooled by false spirits, or has their own evil, greedy agenda.

Win by LOVE. Christ did. Merry Christmas. Peace, and good will to all men.>

Posted by: Stephen Bender | November 30, 2006 4:21 AM

One of the best written and proposals for our withdrawal from Iraq (in a truly Christian manor) was the book
"Out Of Iraq" by George McGovern and William R. Polk. They have done an excellent job of examining the historical context that is at the heart of the problems there today, and then offer POSITIVE courses of action that can facilitate reparations, bring our boys & girls home, and heal many of the Iraqi wounds while stilling the current civil war turmoil. Jim, I would like to see you do an evaluation of this book. I have urged my Congressional representatives to act in accord with McGovern & Polk's recommendations.>

Posted by: George C. Brown | November 30, 2006 4:54 AM

I wasn't in favor of going into Iraq, but I'm not going to say those who made that decision convinced others by lying or had devious motives. How do I know what was in their minds and hearts? Let's have an end to name-calling, abusive comments about the opposition and innuendoes. We need to unite against the forces of terrorism by fostering peace and unity within our own country "Physician, heal thyself.">

Posted by: annie | November 30, 2006 6:25 AM

How Do We Acquit Ourselves From Iraq?

Interesting enough, the mandates entrusted to the United Nations was two part, (1)remove Iraq from Kuwait, and (2)remove the WMD from Iraq.

It is evident that the UN removed Iraq from Kuwait.

What few knew before the "Office of Special Plans" cabal began manufacturing intelligence for the Bush Administration, is that between 1990-98 the UN had successuflly destroyed 90% of all documented materials and factories within Iraq.

Now for anyone that is familiar with the axiom for success, being to emulate the most successful, this clearly in my view removes all of the Bush-Admin abilities.

Can anyone guess what I am trying to say?>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | November 30, 2006 7:04 AM

Bad United Nations...

How many know that the UN was formed immediately after the League of Nations closed shop in failure (1946).

By 1946 a new group (or survivors) of the League of Empires formed the UN. These saintly empires were the United States, Britain, Communist Russia, Communist China, and Socialist France.

To make sure that the 191-5 nations who are members of the UN did not get idea's inconsistant with Empire ambitions, these 5-Permanent Members (Empires) gave themselves the only Veto power.

This of course is considered a model of Democracy to some, to others it gives advantage to blame 191-nations for being unable to break the stranglehold of Empire.

As far as the Embargo placed on Iraq, I would believe any nation that kept within this obscene mandate, was worse than a coward.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | November 30, 2006 7:38 AM

We Are Rebuilding Iraq...

Look into the corruption involved with US Contractors in Iraq, after 4 long years of occupation and easily $50-Billion gone-missing, most of Iraq (rebuilding) lacks the most basic utilities, and Iraq labor is 55% unemployed.

Is this idiocy deliberate, I believe yes, this is an intelligent design to keep Iraq in a severely destabelized state. I believe one day in the future many Americans will have an opportunity to try living under such demented pressures.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | November 30, 2006 7:50 AM

Christians...

Secular man will remind you of scripture saying judge not less you be judged, and for secular man and those out of the will of God, this is very good advise.

However I would enourage an immature Christian to read and ask the Lord for wisdom from His word regarding judging.

The reason I say this is that the mature Christian is commanded in these words, spiritual man will make judgment in all things (in Gods will), but will be subject to no (secular) mans judgment.

So encourage secular man to live by their understanding against judging, and become wise in the Lord.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | November 30, 2006 8:25 AM

Bush started this "war without cause" and he will just continue his "crusade" through the next two years no matter what anyone else says. He firmly believes that God made him president and that God is on his side in all matters. This is scary - anyone who condones torture and believes that God is on his side should make all of us afraid. This is not something my God would promote, no matter the danger. And our military troops are bearing the brunt of his egomaniacal acts.>

Posted by: Gwen Packkard | November 30, 2006 12:47 PM

Well Jim, I am starting to care for your opinion less and less. You speak of our president, a man I love and trust as our leader, as if he were an idiot - very little respect! You act as if bringing his religious views into his presidency were some kind of heresy - sounds as if you believe the fallacy of split personality (one's religious side which is to be kept in the closet until Sunday and they're public side which is to be divorced from any religiously informed decision) a rather odd position for someone in your position.
Of course the president and his advisors have made mistakes in Iraq - could this possibly be their humanity showing through? And maybe yours is too - obviously you can hardly contain your own contempt for the president. Do you think you could have done better as president?? - Well obviously you do...

You want to compare this war to Vietnam - that is nothing less than blind ignorance. As President Bush responded when asked to concede such a point after the elections:
"Iraq has a duly formed constitution and an elected government; Vietnam had neither. The U.S. forces in Iraq are all volunteers, not draftees; morale is high enough to be producing noteworthy reenlistments. And at home the United States is supportive of the troops in Iraq, whereas the home base had lost its support for troops in Vietnam."
The only comparison that can be made about Vietnam and Iraq is a statement made one of Vietnam's generals when he was asked why America lost that war. He said "America lost because they lost the will to win the war." Now that seems to be exactly what is on the verge of happening - are we losing the will to win? If people like yourself win the day that is exactly what will happen.

Finally, doesn t the Scripture say something along the lines of "Love your neighbor as yourself?" When we went into Iraq Sadaam was slaughtering people by the thousands if not the tens of thousands, not to mention the brutal oppression. Seems like to me that our going in and removing him alone constitutes something along the lines of loving your neighbor.

I think you have some good points to be made Mr. Wallis, regarding our focus on Abortion and gay marriage being to the exclusion of other important issues, but I am finding many of your assertions to be overblown. That coupled with your continued rhetoric which paints our president as an ignoramus is turning me against listening to anything you have to say.

Gene C.>

Posted by: Gene | November 30, 2006 1:27 PM

While I appreciate Jim getting into this discussion and the participation of everyone, I am dissatisfied with the tone of this blog post and even more dissatisfied with the tone of the comments. There is so much scathing rhetoric going back and forth that, despite the fact that I would like to mediate and then take up for Jim, I am simply left disenchanted.

Instead, I would like to offer my idea for a few basic agreements I think we ought to make. This is not intended to end discussion or claim any authority over anyone. I am merely suggesting a few essential things I think are missing here.
*********************************

(1) We could admit that we are sinners and immediately pray the sinner's prayer - "Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner."

(2) We could concede to ourselves that the Iraq War is an action of America and as long as we participate in America we own all its actions, even the ones we try desperately to stop.

(3) We could agree to pray for President Bush, Dick Cheney, and Robert Gates - even though we may disagree with many of their prior decisions.

(4) We could agree to pray for our Congress and its leaders - even though we may doubt their effectiveness going forward.

(5) We could agree that the underlying current from which we debate any issue will be "Your will, not ours, be done."

Just some food for thought.>

Posted by: Daniel | November 30, 2006 2:33 PM

Thank you, Rev. Jim, for so eloquently saying for us what so desperately needed saying. You speak for the American people, humanity but most of all, God. You are our voice.>

Posted by: Dr.Marcy Szymanski | November 30, 2006 2:39 PM

I often find Jim Wallis to be thoughtful and persuasive. This editorial "Three Ways to 'Stop the Course'in Iraq," however, appears to be very close to "hate speech". When the first six paragraphs - more than 2/3 of the entire piece - is devoted, not to any argument in favor of his proposal, but to denegrating the president's policies and administration, I can hardly call this a call to resolution.

I have opposed the war in Iraq since before it began, but the harrangue of this particular column is not what I would consider a well reasoned addition to a constructive dialogue.>

Posted by: Julie | November 30, 2006 4:11 PM

Jim,
I agree that this war has made the lives of Iraqis and Americans worse rather than better. If we could go back in time, I would without question advocate a radically different past.

But there is no way back, so instead we must find a way forward. From what I hear, if we pull out of Iraq, the lives of Iraqis will only get worse. If that is true, I am worried that when America pulls out--forced out by a combination of people, who genuinely think that the country is finally doing the right thing--it will doom tens of thousands more to premature and horrible death.

If on the other hand, our leaving really would be in the best interest of the Iraqi people, then I certainly think we should leave as quickly as possible.

What scares me is that both the right and left seem to be driven by the desire to maximize American interests. The Right wants a foothold for democracy/diplomatic ally in the Middle East and cheap and reliable oil. The Left wants our soldiers back home and our money spent on Americans (health care and education notably). While I agree with many of these goals, I am more convicted by our responsibility to the Iraqi people. We contributed heavily to this mess and therefore we bear a great deal of responsibility for its resolution. I pray that we will not abandon them and call it a victory for good.

Before the war, I said that the good action was not going in. But, ironically and somewhat paradoxically, now that we are in, the good action has changed. Now, we must stay and try to help fix the problem. And to leave now would be a greater wrong than the wrong we have already committed (2 Sam 13:12-16).>

Posted by: Rob Ross (Alexandria, VA) | November 30, 2006 4:33 PM

The first part of this blog sounds too triumphant and arrogant for me. I am new to the Sojo movement and I am reading God's politics right now. I like alot of what I am reading. My faith and values have not found a voice in the political realm for a number of years. I agree that we need a new direction in Iraq and it is time for a multilatetal solution, but your blog sounds like all the other politians - my side won so I am happy to be in power. The other side is evil and wrong. I am sick of that. Please don;t talk one way - about working together and finding common ground and respecting other opinions as we plan to move forward together and then change course to the same old same old when "your side wins". haven't we had enough of that? Your book points out that the political system hasn't moved us forward in th past so why resort to that now? This blog doesn;'t sound like what I am reading in your book. It sounds like you are resorting to "we won so now it is time for our mandate". I was excited to have found a community to help give a voice to my faith, but this blog disappoints me. But then again I have been disappointed in the past. Seems you and other liberals talk a good game about moving forward, but the walk is still the same as your "enemy".>

Posted by: Chris Thornton | November 30, 2006 4:35 PM

Listening to news clips about President Bush's trip to Jordan, especially his meeting today with the President of Iraq, I am reminded of Bush's trip to New Orleans after the hurricane -- "You're doing a heck of job Brownie!" -- and his pre-election support of Rumsfeld. My cynical side says that if Bush is "talking him up," the Iraqi President's days in office are numbered; and once again someone else will take the fall for Bush's failed leadership.>

Posted by: Richard | November 30, 2006 5:10 PM

The emperor has no clothes someone should have been saying this four years ago. The next time, a president tries to take this country to war we should all demand that he try to pass a resolution of war in the congress. The congress should do it s job and ask hard questions and demand facts.
And it s time to end this so-called war on terror too. If evangelicals want any moral credibility, it s time to reject this president and speak out against his policy of never-ending war and torture.>

Posted by: John | November 30, 2006 5:33 PM

My last post did not have a byline. I am Todd Everhart and a United Methodist minister in Colorado.>

Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 6:09 PM

"Cut & Run" is what will and must happen in the end. Wallis' treatment of "cut & run" as the moral equivalent of "stay the course" is mistaken both morally and practically.

If the U.S. stays in Iraq until a "responsible" plan for withdrawal is articulated, then the "search for the plan" will become the new cover and the pretext for the continuing occupation. This will put the "search for the plan" in the same category of lies and wishful thinking such as "search fo WMD's" "search for Terrorist links," "liberation from tyranny" and "bringing freedom and democracy." Meanwhile the occupation goes on indefinitely. More killing. More destruction. More of the same. This is of no practical benefit to anyone but the merchants of death (and reconstruction).

Morally, "cut & run" is the only solution. Americans are like some dazed intruder, comming to his senses in someone else's house. The intruder has killed and destroyed without justification or excuse. So long as the intruder stays in the house, he will continue to kill and destroy without justification or excuse. Just get out of the house!

Didn't somebody's lord say "Go, and sin no more?" He didn't say, "Go, and work out a plan to stop sinning." Can there be a greater sin than to take human life without justification or excuse? Can there be a greater crime than to do it on a mass scale?

Whatever evils may come to Iraq once the U.S. quits the place, we already have too much innocent blood on our hands. To go on shedding more innocent blood because other innocent blood might get shed if we don't is an inherently immoral policy. It is the sort of casuistic sleight of hand that purported to justify this immoral war of aggression in the first place.>

Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 6:18 PM

Jim's comments are interesting and compelling by human standards. But where does God fit into this mess? Did He get us into this or Bush?

If the election six years ago had gone diffently do you think we would not be in Iraq today?

I'm afraid we humans are taking to much credit for human events and the state of the world and leaving the one who is really in control out all together.

Has anybody read the last book in the Bible lately? Do we still need God and prayer or is that to old style?>

Posted by: Mark Probasco | November 30, 2006 7:01 PM

We will be the collateral damage in this civl war. As others have pointed out Iraq is a madeup state that did not and does not want to ruled by one party.

So, we can stay and choose sides then be hated by one or the other or not choose sides and be hated by both.>

Posted by: Butch | November 30, 2006 7:16 PM

Reject all plans for permanent American military bases in Iraq.

Give up any unique claim on Iraqi oil.

Agree to substantially fund the re-building of Iraq without any special relationship to the contracts to do the job.

So if we would agree to these three - want would be the outcome and how would it make the world a better place?

NO BASE - fine, just saves us from spending more money. In fact lets close all our bases that are not on US soil. We could have our service personal home more with family and friends. Why should we care about what is happening in Europe - Asia - 'whereever".

NO OIL - cool. histroically we got very little from them anyway. So why should I care Japan and other countries and their livelyhood - stay in the US and buy only from the US.
Works for me.

REBUILD - you have to be ^&*$% nuts. The men and women that are there now are being kidnapped and beheaded and we are trying to protect them. You think I would send US civilians over there with no protection. You want out - OK then out we will be - totally. Why should I can about them if you don't, and do not say you do. I wish - oh how I wish you and your friends would come up with a detailed plan that you could put on paper and track it's progress - but then you would be held accountable and we know that is not going to happen. Your a fantastic Monday morning recliner coach. You have all the answers and what should have been done - AFTER THE FACT. And your next comment will be 'we should not have gone to war.' OK - NO MORE WAR! Let Korea and Iran threaten the whole world - we are not going to do a thing about it - NO MORE WAR! Oh - the UN will keep us safe - NOT! The UN has never been able to handle a third world tryant. So in about 5 years max - it will be interesting to see what the globe will look like.

So - retreat US of A...it is the moral/holy thing to do.

Beam me up Scotty - the purple people are going to be our undoing so I would reather go were no man has gone before.>

Posted by: Robstur | November 30, 2006 7:22 PM

"NO MORE WAR! Let Korea and Iran threaten the whole world - we are not going to do a thing about it - NO MORE WAR! "

Robstur, Iraq is not Korea, and Iran is not Iraq, and the war that was conducted was against Iraq and the people there. Therein, lies the problem. Some of us believe it was wrong to attack a country that did nothing to us.>

Posted by: tovart | November 30, 2006 7:50 PM

"We will be the collateral damage in this civl war. As others have pointed out Iraq is a madeup state that did not and does not want to ruled by one party."

PS or one government.>

Posted by: Butch | November 30, 2006 8:21 PM

Thank you Jim, for your thoughtful comments based upon the facts that led us into this war. One problem always seems to surface when discussing "politics and religion."
"Religious thought" varies w/the person, faith, and of course, the community. The only common basis that we humans have is the ability to Reason, based upon facts. The facts are clear, that the "war" was begun under false pretenses (weapons of mass destruction, and that Iraq was behind the 9/11 NY bombing.)
Thus, we need to agree on the facts and proceed w/the reason/intellect we have. The issue stands, "how can we as a democratic nation change the policies of the current administration to reduce the human/dollar costs and try to assist Iraq to attain stability, w/in a regional sustainable approach?">

Posted by: Ron Putz | November 30, 2006 8:48 PM

Jim, for the most part, I agree wholeheartedly with you. However, the national debate you are suggesting will only extend the suffering and will not result in any consensus acceptable to the administration. Congress must act to force the administration s hand, and even then I would not trust Bush and his cronies to comply.

I agree with the 3 essential points you make: 1) no permanent US military bases; 2) no US claim on Iraqi oil (of course, the very desire for oil not only led to the war in the first place, but is also why we are constructing the bases, why we are staying the course, and why we haven t gotten already left); and, 3) US should substantially fund Iraq s reconstruction without special relationship contracts (how about taking reconstruction completely out of American hands - another absolute no-no for the administration and allow the UN to run it with Iraqi or other middle eastern contractors).

We need to begin withdrawing the US (and British) military NOW, and getting the UN, perhaps the Arab League, or other international bodies involved. At least their presence will not be seen by Iraqis as a military occupation, which is indeed what ours is.

Have you noticed in the media that blame for this whole mess has shifted to the Iraqi s themselves? In a sense, this is understandable of course, given that we are not really into blaming ourselves, and considering the level of sectarian violence going on there. Even though the administration will not call it a civil war (NBC has now broken ranks with Bush and his cronies and is in fact using the term), it clearly reached that stage some time ago. Using the term is dangerous however, in that it is one way of clouding responsibility, and shielding the parties who are guilty for setting this chaos in motion in the first place: George, Dick, Rummy, Condi, Colin, and friends.>

Posted by: Bob P | November 30, 2006 9:18 PM

To Clueless who did not understand...

It is evident you missed every point I made about your criticizing those who (in peacetime) joined the military for an education.

I'm certain you missed the point of the youth from wealthy family who were slipped into National Guard poistions as guarantee they would be exempt from petty things like Korea and Vietnam.

You may have missed the point of our government putting (common) Nat'l Guard servicemen on trial for "Torture" that anyone informed knows was not the stuff seen in the Nat'l Guard photo's.

Understand that I am not as some who say that those who go into the service, are usually those who can't hold a real job outside, but there are times like yourself that I wonder.

You may be proud of being in the military, but just as my brother who was a Lt. in a city police dept, I have discovered there are professional, and those who should find more appropiate occupations.

My point (that you missed) is that our government who are basically corrupt, use people like you in very inappropiate ways. In this context, I have more respect for a common youth looking for an education in the military, than an obvious fool who does not have the maturity to know when they are being inappropiately used.

Want to see what the Pentagon can do to a young (pliable) mind, check out the secret military patches that were worn in Vietnam, along with the article in which they are displayed:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rtpricetag/MansWisdon.html

Also check out the foolish deception a young Army Major spouted as a trained parrot about Iraq:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rtpricetag/MajorIraq.html

When you have matured a little more, perhaps we might exchange dialog again.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 6:13 AM

Chris Thornton

I like what you said in your statement, and for those who believe in God, God comes first (and) last in all political issues.
I am trying to stop slipping up using catch (political) phrases like Conservative or Liberal. In fact I am both Liberal in my love of the creator, and Conservative in giving credit to man for what is done or permitted by God.
At the same time, as stated above, I can work or witness among both political parties. Also long as free speach is allowed, will also judge (spiritual man shall make judgments in all things) both parties as the Lord gives me understanding.
What some secular men cannot understand, but I took as a command (to become as wise as the serpent) called by secular man as becoming informed, to me meant looking beyond words and frequently worthless political platforms of both parties.
What amazes me is how people can become stratified into one of either political party, both at some level have been involved in the pure essence of evil. I may even use one (such) party against the other, to rebuke and correct what I see as needing change.
That is why I backed upsetting GOP control of Congress. Next as is apparently still needed, I will work to get an Executive Office rep who does more than talk to a god, who could be either DEM or GOP as long as the Congress is so finely balanced.
My advice to citizens is to first become informed, then instead of waiting for an election day, vote every day as possible with positive action, during elections is a proper time to get rid of those needing replacement.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 7:12 AM

DeWayne Benson,
You are so misguided.

You have no idea of what I do in the military, or my background, or my thoughts and perspectives on anything. I, however, how a good understanding of your thoughts and feelings, since you publish your conspiracy theory nonsense for the whole world to see.

As much as I would love to enter into dialogue with you, I don't really feel that you are worth the time. Your pre-conceived ideas are rather revolting to me, and I think I will cease to respond to you.

Whether you like it or not, I represent YOU to everyone I come in contact with. Isn't it great to be an American?>

Posted by: James | December 1, 2006 7:58 AM

ANNIE

Concerning... I wasn't in favor of going into Iraq, but I'm not going to say those who made that decision convinced others by lying or had devious motives.

Annie, as a Christian, Christ said He was sending you as a sheep among wolves, and that for this reason you must be as wise as the serpent. This is what secular man calls becoming informed, this was related in the Bible in one istance as warning about going into war unprepared.

I have done some extensive research into the period that Bush took Office, also in the men associated (appointed) with him. It soon became evident that the Administration had interest in Iraq before even taking Office, this being the task of installing a different (regime) in Iraq. When US Intelligence did not commit themselves in finding what the Admin wanted, this (2002) is when a Pentagon office was renamed the "Office of Special Plans." These people literally manufactured this needed intelligence.

It is not my responcibility to go to great lenghts in explaning this to you, but this OSP group were specially selected of mostly civilian's not expert in this area, and these people i suggest literally manufactured this intelligence.

ANNIE, Americans like yourself (MUST BECOME INFORMED), these are dangerous times as the Bible has prophesied. There is NO conspiracy going on, but there is much evil going on, and Christians need to become prepared. As the Bible tells us about future difficulties, the love of (MOST) will grow cold, this most likely speaks of those unprepared.

Two items I would suggest you do some web-search regarding, these are the "Project of the New American Century," and the "Office of Special Plans.">

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 8:29 AM

We have been left with a truck full of lemons.

Our challenge is to find the lemonade.>

Posted by: Ms. Cynthia | December 1, 2006 8:44 AM

Concerning... The new Iraqi government, while hardly democratic, appears to be less brutal than the Hussein regime. Mostly secular in nature, the generals view religious extremists with caution, aware that some radical Islamic groups had made at least tentative contact with the Hussein regime.

It was well known by many including intelligence agencies that there was actually a hatred by the Al Quadia against the Saddam Hussein government. I believe in one case the Al Quadia calling Saddams gov as Western Whore's.

But more striking in the above charge, is the propagandised wording such as most popular today being the "Islamofacsist," or as stated above as "radical Islamist." Just a little research into this matter would have discovered many Islamist Clerics (and the Qur'an) says that killing innocent people is not Jihad, it is the murder of innocent people. The Qur'an equivocates this as murdering all of humanity, apparently a severe rebuke. Also these same Islamist Leaders around the world say, just because people like Osama say what they do is (Islamist) Jihad, does not make them Islamist, and what they are involved in is murder.

As a Christian I take issue with people who take writing within (especially) the Holy Bible OUT of CONTEXT. Not being a convert to Islam, still I have made myself aware why statements of this sort are deeply in error. It is called word association, and in this made possible by being untruthfull (or uninformed), and damning people or things without cause of proof.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 9:19 AM

Concerning... But there is no way back, so instead we must find a way forward. From what I hear, if we pull out of Iraq, the lives of Iraqis will only get worse. If that is true, I am worried that when America pulls out--forced out by a combination of people, who genuinely think that the country is finally doing the right thing--it will doom tens of thousands more to premature and horrible death.


There is a (paraphrased) a saying, only a fool keeps repeating past failure hoping for a different outcome. What we are doing today is continuing the same procedure that experts before said would fail, and ignoring the expert advise of the same who predicted this present continued failure. These experts tell us that the very same reasons that the Bush-Admin say make it imperative we stay (the course), is the very reason that we must soon leave.

To those who find this as creating chaos, it was considered that a coalation of more friendly nations (to Iraq) would make a great deal more sense than the carnage being initiated by present forces and Mercenary Corporations. By the way, did you know there are more Corp-Contractors in Iraq and vacinity, than Britain ever provided as military, some of whom make $100,000.00 per year.

Consider the crime and corruption that no effort has been made to correct. Of the $50-Billion turned over by the UN (Oil for Food) to the coalation force (US), much of which has gone mysteriously missing. And after 4-years and $Multi-Billions, Iraq (in rebuilding) has over 55% unemployment, with most of Iraq still without the most basic of utilities. With a record like this, I can't help believe my 8-year old grand-daughter could have done a better job.

It was not the people who created the evil in this nation, being mostly Islamic of one sect or another, these people want to live, not die. Believe it or not, the radical Muslim are not the true Islamic, but the Freedom Fighter radicals we rounded up and trained in the 70s, and what we now call the evil Al Quadia. It is time to stop what I believe is a deliberate program of keeping Iraq destabilized, and allow these people a chance to begin living together. At least before the US interests privatize the entire nations infrastructure.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 10:27 AM

Kevin S.

Concerning... I find it distressing that a minister would make this comment. Bush, then, must be killing and terrorizing in the name of Christ? That's what we are doing in Iraq, killing everyone and terrorizing them?

I find it interesting that you (in your webpage) essentially agree with this minister, yet find the minister telling apparently a truth you (and I) agree with, as wrong. Where I find error here is not with the minister, who I encourage to speak boldly even from the pulpit, but with your understanding of the teaching in the Bible. By the way, I readily admit Bush may have talked to god (lower case), but the continuing fruit of he and his Administration makes it rather evident which god he talks to. As a Christian, I can tell you without doubt and in clear conscience, that my God does not tell Christians to lie, cheat, steal, torture and murder. If that sounds judgmental, this in fact what the Bible calls for from those following the will of God.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 11:10 AM

I really want to like Sojourners because I like a lot of what they are trying to promote, however it is too much propoganda without enough true substance. For instance in the first paragraph of Jim Wallis' article "Three Ways to 'Stop the Course' in Iraq here are problems that I see: 1.) "...of President Bush's deadly policies." I resent phrasing like that since Pres. Bush has an advisory council, a Congress, and other people who were on board for this war. I think you are using Pres. Bush as a scapegoat because it is easy to mock the President since he has power. 2.) "Voters rejected Bush's war" Again, this style of writing is VERY dangerous calling this Bush's war as if you truly believe Bush is/was the only person who is waging war. Our country is in this war together now whether right or likely wrong, but it's such a cheap shot to call it Bush's war instead of the U.S.'s war. 3.) Just because there are a few more democrats in office after the elections, it was not a "crushing defeat." It would be a crushing defeat if all but 4 or 5 republicans were all elected. And what is with that phrasing if Christians are supposed to have a balanced view. Politics goes very awry when we starting talking of it like a war using terms like 'defeat.' Let's call it a change in philosophy or new perspectives in seats of power. -- These three problems are all in just the first paragraph. This is why I can't support Sojourners and Jim Wallis even though I think deep down there is a fair amount of good that he is trying to do. So I ask, please improve the integrity of the words you choose and let's change this country for the better!>

Posted by: Matt B. | December 1, 2006 3:42 PM

mingus - the vote in congress was overwhelming in support of going into Iraq - Dems and Reps. They all saw the same intell and reports that the adm. did. The call for regime change was voted on and signed by Clinton. If I used the same logic that the Kerry-Kennedy-Poloci group use (with I believe would include you) we would have never gone to war with Hitler. He did not attack us, (US) his desires to take over the world with his 3rd Reich were not my concern. Why didn't ABC-CBS-NBC and the Newsreels show us all of the Nazi gatherings and then tell us that they have such support over there we should not attack them. If we just leave them alone - they will leave us alone. The great urban mith of WWII was that FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor and did nothing to stop it so that he had a reason to enter the war. (NOT - that is as stupid as Bush bringing down the twin towers) With my children I have told them that 'war is the last act of a rational soceity to deal with an irrational enity.' How much longer were we going to let him reek havoc on the world before something was done? I wish the Islamic people of the world would parctice their faith and live on this planet in such a way so that the rest of us could do the same. They, the extream radical islamic fraction will not allow that. We can not allow them to cause terror for the rest of us. When would enough of their killing all around the world be enough to cause you to take action? Iraq was a great source for them, the radicals of islam, to stage their terror and meyhem from. To quote an islamic saying...'the snake is not dead until you cut off the head.' Iraq is part of that process.

Life is perspective - this is my perspective.>

Posted by: Robstur | December 1, 2006 7:18 PM

Robstur
Regarding... NO OIL - cool. histroically we got very little from them anyway.

This is very true today, after the fake 70's 'Oil Shortage', when one of the US "Seven Sisters" posted a 600-800% increase in profits somehow attained at selling much less at a 300% increase in price. America and much of the world began redesign/engineering and more energy effecient usage, the Oil-Glut that was produced within the world-market, dropped oil-prices by 1998 to $9.46/bbl (sounds better than the $70.00/bbl not long ago doesn't it).

Anyway after this ploy to gain Corp Oil-Cartel profits, America began shifting away from Middle East OPEC supply, and today only approx 10-14% of US oil consumption comes from Middle East Opec nations. In fact most of our oil-supply today comes from Canada, Alaska, South America, and some from South Africa. This is why the Bush-Admin trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela was such as serious blunder. Actually, there appears no way to determine how much oil is coming out of Iraq these days, since the oil-production is not properly monitored, nor the exportation.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 8:24 PM

Matt B.

Regarding... 1.) "...of President Bush's deadly policies." I resent phrasing like that since Pres. Bush has an advisory council, a Congress, and other people who were on board for this war.

Have you any idea regarding the 'documented' deliberate lies and deceit the Bush-Admin employed to fool Congress and the citizens of America, to lead us into an illegal and immoral war? Give a read of a (supposed) US Serviceman in this discussion area who also; and continues, swallowing the lie after lie to cover failed lie after lie of the Bush-Admin. Just what part of "WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO" don't you understand?

I sometimes wonder what the greatest danger and enemy to America is, these Regimes and Dictator's that so often are discovered (afterward) were set up and supplied by our own government, or the American citizen who either is living in a Disney World of denial, or may be as uninformed as they display in dialog.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 8:40 PM

James

Regarding your... I say this, not to brag, but to simply prove that your perspecive is VERY LIMITED, and more than likely wrong.

So far the only intelligent thing you've done, is side stepped all issues to prove you are more qualified in these same issues.

Now I believe you have cornered yourself, also it was noted that in your reply you in no way, shape, or form denied or proved me wrong in a single statement I've so far made. As per above in which you say "I am more than likely wrong." Does this tell me you have (legitimate) documentation and proof that I was wrong?


Now considering you are the supposed "expert" in all that I have claimed is documented to have happened in Iraq, even many other areas in the world, which of these claims and charges are you (in expert mode) presently ready to disprove. And please do not (as an intelligent expert) say you do not remember the charges and claims I have made. What you (have) proven so far, is that some may travel the entire world, and have no idea indeed of what they have seen. Just one favor, please tell me you are not part of the Pentagon PSYOPS, or part of the Corp-PR agencies hired by the Pentagon to put out lies to overseas media, more than likely to be picked up by US-media and then used in America to continue deceiving US citizens.

Please do not drop out of this dialog now, I want people here to see what (expert) operations we have in Iraq today.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 1, 2006 9:37 PM

At no other time in recent history have I felt our country heading perilously toward social and political disaster. I am amazed and disheartened that thoughtful, reflective, and articulate political and religious commentators have largely failed to boldly state what appears so obvious to me - that our president is hopelessly stubborn, arrogant and myopic, and so caught up in his bravado that he fails to see the absurdity of "staying the course", and "staying until the job is done". And just what "job" is that, Mr. President? How will we ever know when the job is complete? Why has it become 'our' job? How can this administration actually believe (again the arrogance) that we can impose our way of life, it's values, beliefs, etc. on extremist factions in a region whose culture we hardly understand. Why aren't we screaming at the top of our lungs that if we continue at this rate, we will bankrupt our economy, place our children's future at risk, those nearing retirement, and deprive critical funding to the countless social needs in our own country that we could address if we were not funding the war machine instead. Why are we being so polite and evasive? The President and his policies are wrong; this war is wrong; our arrogance is wrong; our motives are wrong; and young people are dying daily as a result. My faith and trust in God keeps me going, but how long must we endure a President who is so over his head and so reluctant to admit it. Why won't he listen to others? Why won't he listen to reason?>

Posted by: Bill Cleaveland | December 2, 2006 3:04 AM

Good article Mr.Wallis. My concern goes beyond a stoppage of war to the spiritual responsibility we Christians have to the Iraqis. After all they are no less creatures of the one God as we are. But what kind of an influence is this war by so-called Christians going to have on how the Iraqis will respond to possible gospel initiatives directed at them ?>

Posted by: Andrew Azariah | December 2, 2006 2:27 PM

I take this opportunity to support Andrew Azariah in his argument that we need to expand our responsibilities to include the "spiritual responsibility" we have to the Iraqis. Indeed, they, like all other human beings, are the beloved sons and daughters of the one God Jesus referred to when he quoted the Shemah, saying: Israel, the Lord your God is ONE God. Love Him with all your heart, soul and mind.

And 2nd, love your neighours as yourself.

How can we, the invaders from the Western world make amends? By demonstrating on the physical level what it means to "love your neighbour as yourself"!!! Practically speaking:

1) withdraw our troops (inclucing the Canadians) with as much grace as we can muster;

2) Send in the construction crews and the needed materials to help restore the damage which has been done, and

3) Do NOT make any attempt to convert them to Christianity!!! Look in your own families and observe your own neighbours. Each and every one of them has his/her own ideas of what civilized behaviour is and how it can be recognized. My take is that the one and only God Jesus spoke about is "big" enough to understand that each country, tribe and/or mindset expresses itself through the use of culturally generated speach forms. And God keeps asking: What have you done, for these, the least of my children?

If we feel the need to make converts, my strong suggestion is that we talk less and act more. Be a role model!

This is a very difficult and large topic. Jim Wallis is making it possible for us to participate in this debate. My suggestion: so, participate.

Shalom,

Peter V>

Posted by: peter vanderkam | December 2, 2006 4:26 PM

I find Wallis very convincing & credible. Some folks falsely expect a critic to also have a solution. But the first solution is to STOP digging the hole deeper, -- stop doing what doesn't work, to accept the fact that it was a mistake. Meanwhile, solutions need to be honored from wide array of thinkers, and expediently evaluated, and activated.>

Posted by: Bill Kilgour | December 4, 2006 3:51 AM

Vet who was there...
This occupation force in Iraq I strongly believe had nothing to do with Saddam, nor primarily with oil. America (Corp/Gov) for those not aware has backed all of us up to a very dangerous cliff. This war is primarily related to the house of cards America has become through dangerous debt, allies (empires) who would drop us in an instant, and the fake economy that we now rely upon. Do you realize Americas (total) Debt works out to approx $578,456 for every household, while our infrastructure has been outsourced out to 3rd World nations. Over 40% of this debt owed to foriegn agents.

Just before Saddam became very dangerous (after the UN from 1990-98 had successfully destroyed essentially 90% or more of Iraq WMD), the Bush-Admin began telling us that Iraq needed "regime change," Saddam you see in year 2000 said he was going to throw out the US-Dollar as Int'l-Note of exchange and demand EURO's only. This explains why the Bush-Admin today needs time to sew up Iraq and privatize (get stranglehold) of the Iraq oil-industry by whatever means possible.

America today because of shipping US Heavy Industry to the 3rd-World, could forfeit it easily if the US-Dollar lost control as note of exchange in the Int'l-market. At the same time, with the US dollar searching for the bottom of the barrel (value), America has a Trade Deficit all over the world, Communist China now holding a Shise-load of US Dollars. Venezuela plans on dropping the $Dollar, Iran plans on dropping the $Dollar, and I believe if the Bush-Admin does not sew up Iraq, they will also drop the $Dollar. Energy (OIL) is still king in the industrializing (3rd-World) nations. The Bush-Admin has made America (Empire) the most beloved nation on earth to the 3rd-World.

Check out where US-Corp's are getting all their "profits" of which our economists say is a booming economy. Corp's who have built factories now in Communist China and the 3rd-World, these are not realizing this wonderful profit-surge from American Industry, try to guess where their profits are coming from. Is it from the "Trickle-Down" theorum of yesteryear, where tax incentives and favors to the wealthy was to be plowed back into US-infrastructure, with more factories, more job's, modernizing US industry, making America more competetive with the rest of the world... guess we already covered that, didn't we.

America is a house of cards based on lies and deception, sold out by the greed of those we entrusted with the future of America. Today most job's in America are in the 'Service Sector' (lower pay benefit's etc.), unions represent only about 12-15% of US labor force, and the US-gov is trying to destroy even these. Before year 2000 a Congressional group said over 1000 Corp's were investigated and taken to Fed-Court for deliberately hiring illegal-immigrants, in year 2005 only THREE (3) Corp's were taken to Fed-Court. Does this tell you the US Corp/Gov is deliberately sabotaging US labor?

Germany after WWI tried the same economy-scheme that America is using, essentially it is a takeoff of check-kiting, only we keep (printing) more funny-money (Int'l-Bankers) to pay off our 'funny-money' debt with. It is a long story how nations now supplying America with 80% of our consummable's, are actually propping up our fake economy. What do you think Communist China would do with their many $billions of US dollars at the first hint that the Emporer Wore No Cloths. The same happened in Germany, it took a wheel borrow of funny money afterwards to buy a loaf of bread.

It angers me how the Defense Dept (Cheney/Rumsfeld) brainwashed our servicemen in Iraq. The kids are still coming coming back thinking that those (parents) opposed to this illegal and immoral war do not love their own children in Iraq fighting and dying. What kind of a low life coward would tell our kids that their parents neither supported or apparently loved them, are the warmonger's the only people with children or are paying the taxes that mostly go to Halliburton (and other's) in corruption? And despite out taxes not supplying proper military numbers or armor for our children? Hade's, of course our children were representing their parents properly, that is the way we raised them.

But as far as the greed, thievery, covert murder, and destabelizing of Iraq. I give this credit to the SOB's who lied, stole, deceived, and continue to misinfotm the uninformed and immature. There is no other way of describing this obvious and evident propagandizing, which done to US citizens is against Fed-law's now on the books, not counting the unconstitutional Presidential "Emergency War Powers" that have been illegally employed by DEM/GOP Presidents since 1943.

there.>

Posted by: DeWayne Benson | December 4, 2006 4:48 AM

mingus
My appoligies if I have peged you wrong. There are things that I wish were different and maybe we have done somethings wrong. I stand by my WWII statement because it is what most Lib/Blue people have used for an excuse of why we should not have attacted Iraq. What would the world look like today if someone had removed Hitler in '37 or '39. Evil people that threaten the world should not be allowed to continue to do so much less live. The leader of Iran has threatened the US and Israel, calling for the demise of their leadership and society. Iran is going to have a nuclear device of sometype soon or later. (I believe sooner rather than later) I will not put my safety in the hands of the UN - if they can sell US and the world out for oil etc. - do you believe that they will be able to keep us safe with Iran or N. Korea having the bomb? Radical - fundamentalist Muslims fool US Sept 11, I will not allow them to fool us again.

The Crusades ended hundreds of years ago - deal with it and move on. If the radical Muslims will continue to use that as an excuse to cause the world to fear them - I will not stand idely by and do nothing.

Have a great day>

Posted by: Robstur | December 4, 2006 10:02 PM

Bill Kilgour,

If you find Wallis credible, try reading his book, God's Politics. His simplistic and blatantly ignorant 10 point pre-war plan indicates his shallowness of analysis.

The rest of the book simply attaches biblical references to socialist policies without an understanding of unintended consequences.>

Posted by: Veteran who was there | December 8, 2006 2:44 PM

Let us suppose what is not the case: What if we were winning the war and achieving all the ends we were lead to expect from it? Would we then consider the war a victory, worth the sacrifice of a million Iraqi lives? half a million Iraqi children? By whose math could such a calculation be made? God's or Satan's? Would you sacrifice YOUR child for such a victory? Do you reckon that peace or happiness and security bought at such a price is God's peace? No technical improvement or strategic change can save us, for a people who would make themselves secure and safe at such a price are self-damned. The prophets, by whom the Holy Spirit has spoken, have made this perfectly clear.>

Posted by: Jack Stewart | December 13, 2006 7:20 AM

authorization to charge credit card authorization to charge credit card authorization to charge credit card // credit cards good credit cards good credit cards good>

Posted by: Charlie | February 2, 2007 2:13 PM