God bless Rich Cizik, who I believe was called to lead in such a time as this in both the present situation and nationally. And by God’s grace and healing come.>

Mr. Haggard – You are not alone. And maybe now the church will start talking about this, even while admitting they DONT have the answers or the reasons, for every situation. Maybe now they will just listen – and depend on God. More people are hurt by Christians with “Theories” than Christians at a loss for words. I know. I used to be one of them before it hit too close to home.>

PR “More people are hurt by Christians with “Theories” than Christians at a loss for words.” That’s a very good point. As a nurse and the brother-in-law of a man in a persistent vegetative state I know that sometimes it s best to say nothing other than, I m sorry and be present for those who are hurting. Our compassion and empathy makes it difficult for us to see suffering, so we want to fix it. We want others not to mourn because it is hard for us. My in-laws tell me that after my brother-in-law was injured, other Christians would offer Romans 8:28 (And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose) as consolation, but even three years after the accident, they find it very difficult to find the good in their suffering.>

How encouraging it is to see fundamentalists react to Ted Haggard’s scandal in the exact same way the reacted to Clinton’s. Big thanks to folks like James Dobson & his countless followers for their genuine, consistent, non-partisan behavior.>

I so do hope that Mr. Haggard goes in for serious counseling, both alone and with his family. What disturbs me about his letters to the public is that he seems so filled with self-hatred over his homosexuality (sexual immorality), when to me the focus of this is more about lies and adultery–the deception, rather than the sexual orientation. Maybe it is God’s plan that his deception end, and he live the rest of his days as a happy, healthy, and Godly homosexual. I sincerely hope that he–and his family–can reach that point of acceptance and forgiveness. I hope that his church can as well. I guess I’d like to see a world where our religious leaders feel as morally tainted by their large homes, mega-churches, big cars and other forms of conspicuous consumption as they do by sexual infidelity. You can feed a lot of people–God’s children regardless of age–for the cost of a new SUV, while giving yourself better carrying capacity driving a station wagon. Wealth is more seductive than flesh, and entirely too many Christian leaders have been seduced by it–Jerry Falwell, et al. I don’t excuse it or belittle the pain that adultery causes, but we don’t see the pain that our purchases cause. At least, not yet in this country.>

Thank you for the appropriate response.>

I would go further than Cizik – my prayer is that this scandal will help a dialogue of understanding and reconciliation between gay rights activists and evangelical leaders. I also agree with Barbara that the real issue for reconciliation is not his self-loathing homosexual feelings, rather it’s his lies and infidelity towards his wife/himself. Patrick Means in “Secret Wars” points out the vulnerability of our church leaders (and all of us) to self-deception when they/we stop sharing their/our temptations with trusted friend(s). It’s a must for everyone, but even moreso as a leader takes on more responsibility!>

“I guess I’d like to see a world where our religious leaders feel as morally tainted by their large homes, mega-churches, big cars and other forms of conspicuous consumption as they do by sexual infidelity.” If a mega church houses a lot of people, what is wrong with that? I’m just asking because I’ve heard a lot of very negative comments about these churches. While some churches do over-emphasize the importance of having a nice building, many have large buildings because they have large congregations. The same often goes for big cars. While were on concpicuous consumption, doesn’t everyone on this blog have a computer, with Internet access? That, or you are using a computer our tax dollars paid for. So what defines conspicuous consumption? (I don’t own an SUV or a big house, btw)>

I would like to see the Evangelicals come the the realization that they dearly loved and admired a gay man. If it is possible to love and admire THIS gay man, is it possible that all the others are not the satanic slime they portray them to be? Could they too be godly family men and women, deserving of civil rights? Possible?>

Pastor Haggard today–me tomorrow! Translation we are indeed all sinners. I am an Adjunct Professor in NYC and share often with my students and congregation that there is no room for being judgmental in the body of Christ. While I have never experienced this I know that that the only thing that separates me and Pastor Ted is my urgent desire to daily please God. We should be careful not to make the mistake in thinking he doesn’t love the Lord. Didn’t we all the last time we sinned?>

It is my hope that somehow this tradegy can bring some healing. It is a mess. When we realize that sin is sin and we don’t choose to over emphasize one over the other maybe then we can begin to heal. Unfortunately, I believe it will be just another reason for people to use this as a weapon against our beliefs. ie – they can’t even practice what they preach. But the reality is non of us Christians walk a perfect walk. Some have a better walk than others and some just hide it better. But we all for short of His Glory in our walk. I believe many who are quick to judge anothers sin forget that it is only by His Grace that we can walk at all. My prayers are with Him and his family, the Church he pastored and the Body in general.>

AMEN, Taffy- and thank you, Jim, for your response that reflects Jesus in a way that I all too rarely find, inc in myself.>

Haggard HAD to know the whole house of cards would colapse sooner or later, he should have been a man and resigned BEFORE he publicly destroyed his ministry. It’s not the sex, it’s not the money, it’s the POWER and the CELEBRITY. It must’ve been as intoxicating as the meth.>

Ed For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. John 7:4>

We are all sinners, and we all depend on God s grace given at the cross. I hope discussion on the common humanity between evangelicals and homosexuals will result from this. I hope Christians will now see how real, intense, and deep the homosexual desire can be. And it is NO WORSE OF A BEHAVIOR than hate, selfishness, adultery, gossip, deceit, etc. Personally, Pastor Ted s lying, deception, and pride are what have hurt me the most. As sinners, let us never again look down on those with outward sins” to a status below that of ourselves. As believers, let us take this opportunity to reach out and love Mike Jones and the homosexual community like never before.>

“to me the focus of this is more about lies and adultery–the deception, rather than the sexual orientation…” A sin is a sin is a sin. The lies, the adultery, AND the homosexuality are all reasons for godly sorrow that leads to repentance.>

There are so many compassionate observations on this topic, beginning with Jim Wallis’ post and continuing with the succeeding comments, that I have had great difficulty selecting any given one to comment on, directly. “… I don’t excuse it or belittle the pain that adultery causes, but we don’t see the pain that our purchases cause. At least, not yet in this country…”. I join with barbara and so many others… may Ted Haggard and his wife and children find peace… and may we citizens of the more wealthy nations of our earth find some more effective way to direct our charitable contributions to relief of the suffering of those who live in poverty, here and in other nations.>

Personally, I don’t care much for Rev. Haggard’s style of Christianity, his type has pretty much drove me away from Abrahamic religions in general. However, I must say that in contrast to many in his position in politics, religion, and entertainment, his timely and forthright apology, and his willingness to stand up and take his punishment like a man with no excuses, deserves a pat on the back. Reverend Haggard, even though you stumbled, you showed some true leadership. Kim M>

I have a problem with the part that says we shouldn’t “expect so much of leaders.” We should always have high expectations: not just for our leaders, but for our friends, family members, and ourselves, too. We need to take leaps of faith, love, and trust, or we will always approach relationships with caution and pessimism, and we’ll never fully love. But it’s what we do when expectations aren’t met — which is bound to happen — that counts. And we should always approach others’ (and our own) mistakes out of a spirit of love and forgiveness.>

Jim, Thank you for the comments. They clearly demonstrate and reflect your faith in our Lord. To those who want to say that Ted is gay and should accept it, I would state to not be so quick. To do so, is jumping to the same black and white definitions of the religious right (i.e., that you are either this or that). Our sexual inclanations are on a broad scale. Some suffer from the sexual addiction more than others. We don’t know what exactly Ted’s sexual immorality was, nor should we judge it. If he wants to stay committed to his marriage and follow the promise to God, we should not encourage him to do otherwise. To encourage behavior otherwise would be encouraging a brother in the Lord to further engage in sin. Just as it is stated in Genesis and just as it was important enough for Jesus to repeat the scripture, we should remember the Genesis and Jesus’ statement on marriage, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” (Matt 19:5, also Gen 2:24) We should pray for Ted and his wife. We should pray that Ted can heal the wound he has inflicted on his marriage and his own inner wounds. We should pray for grace and comfort for his wife. We should also pray for all our leaders that they make sure they people in their lives that they can talk to and who will hold them accountable. Ted brought many people to Christ. Let us rejoice in the good things he has done for the Lord and not concentrate on the sinner. My hope is that he can work through this and start over his evangalism in the future. He will definately have a different perspective to reach peopl.>

i know lots of people who drive big, expensive cras, and live in big, expensive houses, and give tons of moeny away to charities…… i think there are lots of people like this. furthermore, i know of several ‘mega’ churches, including Ted Haggard’s New Life, that give tons of money away to missionaries and the poor and needy…. it’s easy for us to preach against judging each other , but also so easy to judge those “celebrity’ ministers in their big cars and houses – without having the slightest clue how much they give away, nor how much they serve the poor and needy. God bless Ted Haggard, and his faithfulness to the Gospel. We all are completely capable of commiting the same acts as he, and all will be capable until we meet Jesus face to face.>

It sounds like Ted is “bisexual”. I generally agree with people who struggle as such getting married with someone of the opposite sex and having regular accountability. It sounds like the pressures of being the NAE president made it harder for him to get the accountability that he needed. I am also hopeful that Richard Cizik’s statement will become true. I wrote recently at the Anti-Manichaeist about how I broach the controversies surrounding homosexuality. I’d like to invite people to check them out. I’ve engaged in a fair amount of dialogue and research on the issue over the years… dlw>

Taffy – that was very well phrased, and a POV I hadn’t heard from anyone before. On a totally other note, somebody else has also been posting on here as “Eric” – not at all surprising, it’s a great name. Just so everybody knows there’s more than one of us. If I knew which one of us showed up on the board first, I’d offer to be Eric 1 or Eric 2. >

Barbara, your post (pasted below) was beautifully written. Thank you. “I so do hope that Mr. Haggard goes in for serious counseling, both alone and with his family. What disturbs me about his letters to the public is that he seems so filled with self-hatred over his homosexuality (sexual immorality), when to me the focus of this is more about lies and adultery–the deception, rather than the sexual orientation. Maybe it is God’s plan that his deception end, and he live the rest of his days as a happy, healthy, and Godly homosexual. I sincerely hope that he–and his family–can reach that point of acceptance and forgiveness. I hope that his church can as well. I guess I’d like to see a world where our religious leaders feel as morally tainted by their large homes, mega-churches, big cars and other forms of conspicuous consumption as they do by sexual infidelity. You can feed a lot of people–God’s children regardless of age–for the cost of a new SUV, while giving yourself better carrying capacity driving a station wagon. Wealth is more seductive than flesh, and entirely too many Christian leaders have been seduced by it–Jerry Falwell, et al. I don’t excuse it or belittle the pain that adultery causes, but we don’t see the pain that our purchases cause. At least, not yet in this country.”>

I am in prayer for the Haggard family, the church, Christianity, and the world. Thank you for a website that does not gloat at this sorrowful time. Stop mixing faith with partisan politics. Quietly vote your conscience after prayer and beware of political wolves in sheep’s clothing. You shall recognize them by the fruit they bear. Look at the fruit! If you see sorrow, pain, death, and lies and hypocrisy, and angry faces – you are not seeing the face of GOD! Pray for our country. Pray for America to wake up! Pray that our eyes can see. Pray that our ears begin to hear! Please pray! VALUE life!>

I was pleased with this post for the most part. I have to admit I was on edge the whole time I was reading it, as I expected Wallis to make some jab at conservatives or the religious right. He did do this, though it was pretty mild (what “religious right” people have been attacking the NAE???) Plus, he ended with his liberal politics note. It could have been a lot worse. But I was impressed with his treatment of Haggard and am thankful for the dignity of his response.>

One of the most thoughtful things I’ve read on this tragedy. THANKS>

I disagree with mykull and Barbara. Infidelity in this context is a sexual sin every bit as much as homosexuality is, so when Haggard confessed sexual immorality he was not necessarily focusing exclusively on homosexuality. As much as Haggard’s statement is admirable, two things bear attention: first, he is still somewhat vague about what exactly he did, and second, he says that not all of the allegations made are true. There is much that we do not know and may never know about Haggard’s actions and his state of mind. Hopefully he will work out the details in counseling, and find forgiveness and healing. Wolverine>

Dear Pastor Ted, Your recent situation holds a lesson for all of us: that actual truth, God s truth, trumps what we mistakenly believe to be truth. When we become so convinced that our human interpretation of the Bible is so right that we actually portray that interpretation as God s truth, we set ourselves up to fall. God made you a beautiful gay man. However, your belief in your own interpretation of scripture told you this was untrue. Over and over, God has sought to remind you of your innate beauty, but through the lens of your own self deception, you misinterpreted God s voice to be the devil s temptation. This sad conflict caused you to corrupt your beauty with drugs and prostitutes. Regrettably, you are retreating back into the false comfort of this deception. You are about to undergo what is dangerously labeled reparative therapy. Your belief system is telling you that it is your homosexuality that has landed you in this state of disrepair. You believe if you fix your homosexuality, you will be reconciled with God. But if God is the one that made you gay in the first place, how can rejecting God s creation reconcile you to Him? You have placed your faith in the false idol of human scriptural interpretation. Your downfall is the result of your idol worship, not your homosexuality. To the detriment of the Christian faith, you have been highly influential in leading thousands of other Christians to worship this idol as well. If you can lay down this idol and listen to God, maybe you can accept who God made you to be and start living a life of real truth. Just as I Am, calls us to lay ourselves before God with all of our flaws and trust that he will redeem us. God wants to redeem you. But you have to do it his way, not James Dobson s way. God made you a beautiful gay man. Trust your creator. James Dobson will only put a Band-Aid of social acceptability on your earthly body and will destroy your eternal soul in the process. God is with you, but so are thousands of gay Christians who have walked millions of miles in the shoes you are currently wearing. We have struggled in our faith. We have sinned and corrupted our beauty. But we have put aside our human prejudices and come to accept the fullness of God s plan for our lives. We pray you will do the same. We wish you, your family, and your former congregation the Peace of Christ. Love, Rob Robbins Austin, Texas>

Here’s hoping Republicans win tomorrow! 8) _>

Question for those (such as HAC) who want Republicans to win tomorrow: Imagine for the moment that everything in the US and the world were exactly the same, except the president were a Democrat and the house and senate were controlled by Democrats. Would you then be voting tomorrow for Democrats so they could “stay the course,” or would you be voting for Republicans in hopes of change?>

If only a few isolated cases within Christianity wound up this way, you could blame it on “a few bad apples”. And there ARE some bad apples. There are hypocrites – even as there were in Christ’s day. But the fact that we have seen such a steady stream of this kind of stuff should cause us to see that the problems are not just with individuals within American Christianity – but seem to be more systemic. And perhaps we need to look at more whollistic solutions than at just geting rid of a few hypocritical individuals. For I believe that falling like this doesn’t NECESSARILY make you a hypocrite. It may, and some are. But for some – it just may be that they truly WANTED God’s power in their life and didn’t understand how to get it. For example, Haggard knew he had a problem. But he was apparently too embarassed to ask fellow Christians for help. Why is that? Why are we American Christians creating such an environment that makes people afraid to share their weaknesses with brothers and sisters that could help? Is the reason that, all too often, WE BROTHERS AND SISTERS DON’T HELP? But instead we condemn or offer disapproval? Or treat people who openly TRY to share the struggles and weaknesses they have – with an attitude of disdain? Or “you just can’t get it together?” Or…”Surely by NOW, you ought to have a better walk with God!” “You’re a failure.” Do we shame people who are honestly trying? What I’m saying, is that it’s sad that anyone should ever HAVE to hide such an intense struggle. It honestly doesn’t sound like a case of hypocrisy to me – just a case of someone not having brothers in Christ he could feel safe with. I’ve had Christian friends share with me struggles they were having – with deep embarrassment and an expectation that SURELY I was going to shame them. And they acted SURPRISED when I wasn’t even shocked, that I just thought they were normal because WE ALL HAVE STRUGGLES – just in different areas. For crying out loud – that is WHY WE CHRISTIANS NEED EACH OTHER – because we are ALL in the same boat – struggling with the temptations of this world of one kind or another. And my own personal experience speaks volumes as to why it is so hard to be at all honest about struggles you are having. I’ve often tried to be honest that same way – and share with other believers about me waking up in the morning cranky and irritable and ugly and not really feeling like praising God…or about day-to-day matters I SHOULDN’T worry about (but I still do anyhow) – or about the weeks several years ago that I’d wake up every morning wanting to be dead (and how God always gave me the strength to go on and get through another day). And yeah…honestly sharing about those things brought me some prayers from other believers. But invariably, it ALWAYS brought me disapproval, contempt, scorn, often snide comments chiding me for my weakness that I had openly shared with those around me. Rarely, have I ever felt encouraged to continue living openly. What it taught me was that it is far easier to seek to “impress” others with a picture of a Christian that never has problems. For then people won’t scold you and belittle you. And yeah…I’ve chosen to continue being honest – but you know…it’s COST me – quite often. There have been many of my weaker moments (And here I go being honest again!) when I just decided it was far less painful to put on a Christian front (even if I wean’t feeling it that day). Even with God! So many times I’ve caught myself finding something displeasing to God in my heart – and instead of accepting that fact and praying to God to perfect His grace in my weakness….instead I’ve desperately tried to “fix” it myself to please God. Unconsciously thinking that surely God must disapprove of me the same way other believers did. Until I’d eventually come to my senses and realize the foolishness of all that. God’s grace IS perfected in each of our weakness. Is this why Christians that KNOW they are struggling DON’T seek the help and encouragement they need from other believers? If so…then WHAT MUST WE LOOK LIKE TO THE WORLD OF UNBELIEVERS AROUND US who have never put their faith in Christ? Do they look at us Christians and the Christian fronts we wear…and then look at their OWN struggles and failings…and give up in frustration…thinking the Christian life and attitudes are something THEY could never do? Because they are too weak? When what we should be communicating is that we are really ALL in the same boat – that we ALL struggle (just with different things) and that the only way ANY of us can heal and be more Chistlike is to go to Jesus Christ on a daily basis and seek HIM to fix us and give us the strength we will never have by ourselves! But THAT is the true Biblical Christianity. THAT is the unique hope that ONLY Jesus Christ can offer. A place for weak people who DON’T have the strength to obey God, who are merely forgiven by God, and then go to God daily for the strength we lack. Take those things away – and what does Christianity have to offer?>

Amazon Creek raises some interesting points. What if, in an ostensible effort to discourage and reduce homosexuality by demonizing and condemning it beyond virtually any other sin, conservative Christians are actually helping to perpetuate it by causing Christians with homosexual leanings to keep those leanings a secret and to avoid seeking “help”? If these Christians can’t share their struggles with their brethren and sistren, will they ever really get the help they need?>

Bet everything you own and everything you may own in the future that Ted is not the only evangelical leader to turn to homosexuality. Other Christian-male leaders have (or will shortly) turned to other things, gambling, porn, booze, drugs, whatever …. ANYTHING to relieve the stress. ANYTHING to not hurt. ANYTHING to not feel. Anything to take one more step along the path we’re on. Look, both the left and the right demand that all males are a problem just because they are males. Both demand harm to males for the crime of being male. On and on it goes, getting worse every year. The stress on the male population is so high that to survive as a leader one must turn to something. Ted handled this as best he could. That is all any male, as he exists in our culture, can do. The whole thing is going to fall apart, likely in the next few years. The stress is too high, it cannot go on without an explosion. You think politics and social activism are nasty now? Wait a few years … you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.>

I find it hard to feel any sympathy for Ted Haggard. God help us to remember that we too are ashes. God help those who were hurt by this.>

…and to remember who our neighbors are. Advent is the perfect time to have ourselves broken and prepared to receive Jesus into the world. I hope and pray that his story will be a source of humility and compassion for some evangelicals who may have constructed a monument to themselves in their hearts.>

I saw and heard a brief excerpt from a speech Jim Wallis gave on what other evangelicals are doing; namely aligning themselves with one political party. It was great to hear a dissenting voice from the babble of conservative talk show and religious figures. Let me provide a biblical answer that aligns itself with Jim’s efforts on behalf of true religion. The cultic Hebrew prophets sat at the king’s table, ate the King’s food and told the king what he wanted to hear. They stopped speaking for God, lost in the glamor of rubbing elbows with power. Elisha, once a cultic prophet now following in Elijah’s train, became a true prophet, although some habits proved hard to break-calling for the minstrels, killing people who made fun of him, etc. But it was Elisha who opened the eyes of his servant to see the hosts of the Lord and bring courage to a right cause.>

ALL people should be included if they want to be, in a Christian Church. If any of these people have chosen homosexual behavior then, the Christians in those Churches should never stop praying and trying to get these people out of homosexual behavior. It is consistent with the New Testament record to oppose sexual debauchery within the Church. Converting non-believers and helping sinning bothers and sisters IS a huge mission of the Church. Inviting people caught up in homosexuality should be offered by every Church on earth. That they may rebel is no concern of the believer to never give up on anyone. Even a person caught up in homosexual behavior. Preach the Gospel accurately and the lies and deceptions of homosexual behavior will be dealt with by God and people will leave that life lived contrary to the structure of proper (Biblical) sexuality. Ted Haggard can be very effective in leading a movement that has been all too forgotten by the Church universal. Snatching people from the fire and saving the lost.>

My opinion here is that Ted was (is) gay. He worked for TNLC and the NAE. In essence, he had a job and (I assume) was paid a salary. It seems that he was fired for being gay. Now, in the real world, I believe one can not be fired for being gay. So, as an aspiring prophet, I believe Ted has to get his job back.>

Rich Czik has to be oh so careful as any sign of not absolute disagreement with the gay aganda is seen as a complete affirmation of it. Jim Wallis is a slick salesman for progressive abomination and will use every effort (including pain and suffering of evangelicals) to slip in unnoticed his desire to change Christianity to a hedonistic Roman-orgy world of decadence while throwing the poor a soup bone. The vitriol has always come from gay rights activists as these people know that every gay stride comes at the cost of defeating Christians. Condoms and gay marriage are not moral Christian positions. Evangelicals have to put on the full armor of God whenever the deal with the gay world, as it does not compromise with any decent position. Rich Czik will find this out all too soon. It is too bad that the vultures of the left, are gathering around Haggard. Their agenda plods on even as this man Haggard proclaims what he did by embracing homosexuality was wrong. No gay rights activist has any desire to care about Ted Haggard feeling he did anything wrong by engaging in homosexual behavior.>

“Imagine for the moment that everything in the US and the world were exactly the same, except the president were a Democrat and the house and senate were controlled by Democrats.” I don’t know about HAC – but if Democrats were to espouse conservative values (as does my democrat representative) I’d gladly vote for them.>

I think it’s much easier to be so forgiving when one has not been the direct target of anti-gay rhetoric espoused by Haggard, Dobson, et al. I have been the direct target, having been repeatedly told that 1) I am promiscuous and dangerous 2) I threaten the “family” 3)I can’t be a Christian, and even that 4) I am an agent of Satan. I have come to see this attitude toward me as abusive and those who so slander me as abusers. To me, the hypocrisy is much less important than the continual abuse of the gay community by so many clergy and their followers.>

Actually, I find it very hypocritical that James Dobson and gang had absolutely no compassion or grace extension to Pres Clinton and his sexual sins. Dobson even doubted that Clinton was saved. They were pompous, arrogant and full of self righteousness. However, with one of their own–it’s a different story. The hypocrisy of that whole group nauseates me.>

I appreciate the attitude of grace and forgiveness expressed here. Nevertheless, we need to talk about Haggard’s anti-gay crusade. He states in his letter that he still stands behind everything he ever preached. This is a statement made in deep deception, and should be addressed by the new leadership at his church. Haggard’s teaching on homosexuality and his efforts to affect same-sex marriage legislation were all projections of his denial of and struggle his own sexuality. As Parker Palmer has eloquently written, leaders project their shadow upon those that follow. There’s no clearer picture of that than here. Forgiveness for the deception and adultery are issues for the family and congregation. Clear-headed evaluation of the emphasis of his ministry, despite Wallis’s warm feelings towards Haggard, should be the focus of the larger community.>

Can’t help but wonder — would a man who “chose” to sexually desire other men, such as Haggard, describe his inclinations as “very very dark”? Would such a man work against gay marriage and lead a campaign in his very conservative church to enact legislation, or perhaps even amend the Constitution, to outlaw gay marriage? Would a man who “chose” homosexual behavior have fathered five children with his wife? Would Haggard be the tortured, and clearly (to me) self-hating man he is if his desire for other men was “a choice”? I’ve known a number of gay men, and many of them grew up in a time when most gay (or bisexual) men were, like Haggard, in the closet. Virtually all of the gay men of that generation say that if God had given them a choice, they would have chosen to be born heterosexual.>

Haggard owes the LGBTQ community an apology for causing hurt and harm to people. His views and the premises to which he stood on are suspect but he owes them a big apology for basically saying our country and our God will never accept you for what you are. That’s shameful disgusting and wrong. p>

Having been created by God as something other than straight is not a sin. It’s a gift that too many in our culture are kept from being able to fully appreciate, much to our loss. Unfaithfulness in marriage, though, amounts to breaking sacred vows made to a life partner in the presence of God and before an assembly of witnesses. That’s a problem!>

I am struck by the pain of REv. Haggard’s apology and also that one of the reasons he could not find healing is because he had to hide and to lie all the time. Whether we take the position that he should be at peace with himself as a gay man or as a heterosexual, the first step toward healing is truthfulness: with ourselves and with others. I believe that all religious communities should take this to heart: how many people feel that they have to hide who they really are? And how can any of us ever find forgiveness and healing if that is the case?>

Rob Roberts: Where did you hear that Haggard would be going through reparative therapy? I suppose such a thing is possible but until we hear from a reputable source this is pure speculation on your part. D4P: You ask a fair question. It’s entirely possible that exaggerating the evils of homosexuality has the effect of making it harder for people to deal with it in a constructive way. Wolverine>

Donny, “slick salesman” “progressive abomination” “hedonistic Roman-orgy world of decadence” “vultures of the left” And YOU have the nerve to say “The vitriol has ALWAYS [emphasis mine] come from gay rights activists. Go look in a mirror, you hypocrite. BTW, the aim of equality is NOT “defeating Christians”. You are entitled to your delusions. You are not entitled to impose your ‘religious beliefs’ on others. “Condoms and gay marriage are not moral Christian positions.” This is false. Condoms can prevent disease as well as pregnancy. And many gay Christians have been married in their respective Churches, Synagogues and Temples. Get a clue. “No gay rights activist has any desire to care about Ted Haggard feeling he did anything wrong by engaging in homosexual behavior.” False again. (Is this how you ‘win’ arguments – thru lies?) The things Haggard did that were wrong – he cheated on his wife, lied to her and went behind her back. He lied to his congregation and the world at large. He was a hypocrite. He did LOTS wrong. Being homosexual is not among them. I will pray for your healing.>

Wolverine, “Where did you hear that Haggard would be going through reparative therapy?” It’s all over the media. His ‘healing’ restoration will be ‘lovingly’ (gosh, possibly even ‘prayerfully’) administered by the likes of the child-beating Mr. Dobson. Electrodes on the genitals? Or maybe just loving water-baording to get the devil out of him. All they will do is re-inforce the message that he should hate the way God made him.>

The more of Donny’s posts I read, the furiouser (and curiouser) I get… “If any of these people have chosen homosexual behavior then, the Christians in those Churches should never stop praying and trying to get these people out of homosexual behavior.” What a futile waste of prayers. It doesn’t work. Do you think God made a mistake? “It is consistent with the New Testament record to oppose sexual debauchery within the Church.” Hmm, WE discuss loving, committed, consenting, adult relationships. YOU speak of “debauchery”. You are the antithesis of Christ’s message, and I pray you will be healed of your hate for God’s gay and lesbian children.>

Donny, Would you mind sharing with me what you get from this passage (John 8:2-7)? At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”>

I don’t know about HAC – but if Democrats were to espouse conservative values (as does my democrat representative) I’d gladly vote for them. Yep. Me too.>

Sexuality is not a choice; therefore it cannot be a sin. The real tragedy in this case is that we as Christians do not provide an open, loving environment for homosexuals. This results in unimaginable amounts of pain, suffering, self-loathing and denial that injures all parties. How much grief could have been avoided had we just been willing to embrace all God’s children as they are?>

The problem with responding to homosexuality in one’s OWN life, or in the life of someone you know with “love the sinner, hate the sin”, is that most people dont know where it comes from. In some situations, lust isnt even an issue.Christians with homosexual attractions will often tell you they dont know where it comes from. So what are they supposed to do about it?>

Jim, I read your blog on Ted Haggert with growing frustration. Your compassion for Rev. Haggert is appropriate and is a needed perspective on the whole episode. But my frustration grew as I realized the object of your compassion: a fallen sinner who needs forgiveness and redemption. Ted is not as much a fallen sinner (except insofar as we all are) as he is a victim of a vicious system that vilifies, ostracizes, and often destroys gay and lesbian people. Unfortunately it resides in its most virulent form in our churches. There are those, such as Tom (posting 11/6/06, 8:35 p.m.) who counsel caution in identifying Ted as gay. But in his letter to his congregation, Ted Haggert makes it abundantly clear. “…I’ve been warring against it all of my adult life” he says. His letter eloqently describes the experience of a gay man living in denial and desperation. I’ve heard the same story over and over from gay men who finally came out. Jim, by glossing over this glaring reality, by expressing empathy and forgiveness for Ted in his fallen state, you in effect reinforce the view that homosexuality is a sin, rather than a state of being, like heterosexuality, and help to perpetuate the gross injustice that GLBT people face from church people. My admiration for you and the leadership you are providing in confronting injustice in the name of Jesus is unbounded. You are a true prophet for our time. I traveled all the way to Atlanta to hear you speak at Candler, Emory University last month. I even got you to pose for a picture with me. I guess that is why I was so frustrated by treatment of the Ted Haggert espisode. Injustice is injustice, Jim. I know you are committed to working with a spectrum of people and you seek to create a big tent. But ultimately, you don’t get to choose which injustice you will address and which one you will look away from. I’m not asking you to make homosexuality the focus of your work; but when the issue is staring you in the face, I think it is incumbent on you to address it. I remain your faithful partner in the work of God’s Kingdom. Conrad Steinhoff>

Sexuality is not a choice; therefore it cannot be a sin. So having a sexual attraction to little children is not a sin? I concede that someone may be tempted by certain sexual acts they are more inclined to. That doesn’t mean it’s not a sin, though. _>

This episode is sad because of the forlorn loneliness experienced by this leader. It is sad that in the evangelical community, the need to appear Christian is a barrier to honesty. Christian leaders both hold themselves up and are held up by their congregants as more perfect than they are and the need to maintain this false identity prevents them from seeking the counsel and help they need. “Confess your sins one to another that you may be healed,” says the biblical text but we dare not be self revelatory or vulnerable. Fear of judgment, fear of condemnation, fear of being perfectly human keeps us from attaining true perfection and freedom of spirit. The Reverend Ted Haggard needed to have an intimate group of evangelical leaders to whom he could be accountable and with whom he could be honest without condemnation and rejection. I hope he has found such a group in Jack Hayford and Tommy Barnett. I’m glad to hear that James Dobson recused himself. His presence might have been contraindicated.>

I am grateful to many posters in this dialog for their healing words, particularly about the spiritual climate in which people experiencing and wrestling with same-sex attraction find themselves. I would beg all on this page to think carefully about where a 14-yr old child who is confronting same-sex attraction is to go. Actually TRY to put yourself in the shoes of a very scared, too-easily-in-denial-about-their-feelings young adult. How can you expect a young person to NOT be in denial when the only options presented to them by the church they love are HELL or a life of isolation and solitude. What healing words, hope or sense of place are being given to young people who find themselves in this situation? People honestly believe that these young people won’t choose denial and run away in terror? Only the strongest and most spiritually secure teens (or the most secular and furthest from Christian churches) are probably capable of the integrity and honesty required to acknowledge a homosexual orientation. It was only when I was 30 years old that I first heard of a Catholic group called COURAGE. By then, I’d already, after long struggle, come to accept my sexuality and interpret all I’d been taught by my Church as nothing more than the result of centuries old, deep-seated prejudice based on an Old Testament understanding of God that was as valid as the superstitious beliefs that children with birth defects were God’s judgement on their parents. But why on earth, if the Catholic Church had founded COURAGE as a resource for gays and lesbians, was NOTHING – ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – ever said about this group when I was growing up. While I completely agree with those who say it is premature for us to reach any conclusions about whether Ted Haggard has a homosexual orientation or not, I can so easily see how he finds himself in the place where he now is. I dearly pray that whatever conclusion he reaches, his story can inspire all parents and Church leaders to think again about their children, how they talk about homosexuality and the extent to which they offer a safe harbor to teenagers in the midst of coming out.>

Jim, Well written & a good lesson for all to understand and take to heart. Thank you>

Early in my Christian life I lived around the corner from a church with these words from John Greenleaf Whittier posted on its signboard: “Search thine own heart. What paineth thee in others in thyself may be.” Over the years the meaning of these words has deepened for me, as I”ve learned to embrace my own shadows, so as not to project them on others, imagining that they are light. Ted Haggard’s high-toned condemnation of homosexuality was obviously energized, at least in part, by his denial and condemnation of himself. Could it be that if he had fully and honestly come to terms with the homoerotic part of himself, he may not have been driven to act on it? Saying he should now live happily as a gay man is stunningly oversimplistic. We should pray that the dynamics of God’s grace and the fellowship’s forgiveness will at last allow him to both see and accept himself as he is, as does God. But in the complexity of that self-discovery are a myriad of possible moral decisions that none of us wise commentators can predict, nor judge. As usual, there’s a lesson here for all of us. The incredible irony that I’ve discovered is that the more willing I am to admit that “this is who I am” instead of insisting that “this is who I cannot be,” the more those inner demons turn out to be allies in the kind of empathy and compassion that allow me to participate in God’s embracing mercy. And isn’t that, at bottom, all that God is really asking of us?>

HAC, “So having a sexual attraction to little children is not a sin?” Unless and until you can differentiate between consenting adult relationships and molesting children, you have no moral authority from which to debate.>

I have read the letters that Ted and Gayle Haggard wrote to their congregation and appreciate so much their honesty. But I think Ted is beating himself up too much. He talks about the war he’s been fighting within himself….presumably the war between who he thinks he should be as a straight, loving husband, father and minister, and the truth of who he really is as a bisexual (or homosexual),loving husband, father and minister. The sin he is guilty of is more about repressing his true nature, than it is about the ‘sins’ for which he’s asking forgiveness. I would hope that he would seek other counselors than the ones he has chosen because they will try to “cure” him of something that needs no cure. I pray that he, and his wife and family, would be willing to take the next steps and come to understand that his sexual orientaton is a gift from God and that the greatest gift he can give back is to affirm who he is and start preaching the truth that to be gay is not a sin.>

The man lived a lie for years. He would have continued to live a lie if he had not been exposed. Not only did he live a lie, he spoke against others who were living a similar lifestyle. There is probably a special place in hell for his kind. Only real and lasting permanent repentance will give him a shot at paradise. Jim Wallis: Please don’t make us all sinners like this just because you want to stick up for your almost friend. I resent your article. Those who cause the weaker ones to falter, have their future clearly spelled out in the bible. All the supposed good Ted has done, is wiped out by his stupidity and lack of self control.>

Dea Pastor Ted: Your influence was pernicious, your church bloated & antiseptic, & what you probably consider your worst sin – homosexual desire – is no sin at all. Maybe three or four years of Christian “therapy” will reprogram you in some illusory, self-deluding way & you can return to preaching your nonsense.>

All of you praying for Ted! How about praying for the persecuted and the lost instead. Ted made his bed, let him deal with it.>

Dear Jim, Thank you for your heartfelt and eloquent commentary. As others have noted, you demonstrated a Christlike reaction by feeling sorrowful for Ted instead of judging him as so many others, including myself, have been prone to do. I am ashamed to admit that there’s a part of me that sometimes finds satisfaction in the stumbling of high-profile preachers of ultra-conservative “Christian” values. Certainly, such a response on my part is the antithesis of I Cor. 13:6, which tells us that Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rather in the truth.>

Ted Haggard has been given a gift. A painful and humiliating gift, but a gift nonetheless. His options to lie and deceive those closest to him have been stripped away and he must now walk around in the nakedness of sin exposed. Thanks in no small part to this column, instead of the shame I initially felt as a fellow Christian and finger wagging I wanted to do, I have been left with hope. I hope he takes his own advice given to his congregation and thanks God for Mike Jones. I hope that he will use this opportunity for all it is worth in being a stronger Christian closer to God s heart and live with the constant reminder of his need of Christ s all sufficient grace. I hope and pray that through this experience Ted will come back to ministry as a contrite and compassionate Christian with eyes more open to the pervasive nature of sin and the more pervasive need for forgiveness in this broken world. And I hope that if I ever feel I must live a lie that God will bless me with this gift. In the meantime I hope our expectations were neither met nor crushed by this public betrayal of one s own values but instead the opportunity to be a follower of Christ was embraced.>

curiouser and curiouser…, You completely missed my point. It had nothing to do with child molestation. It had to do with born-tendencies, and the fact that they have little to do with determining morality. _>

Dear Jim: As I read these post I am astonished and discouraged to realize how little people out there really understand how our leaders fall from Grace and more importantly how we, ourselves have participated in it. When the People of the old testament asked for a King, God asked, Why do you want to have some one else standing between you an me? The people insisted please give us a King. And finally God relented. But who was this King and all of those who followed? In my small group we have really been struggling with the way both churches and governments choose and aspire to their leaders. For churches this is potentially very problematic. In a relational community how healthy is it for us to raise up someone that can be confused with our image of and personal relationships with our heavenly father? How can a leader have a healthy relationship with even himself and keep growing as a person, if he is held up with such exposure that only the age of high tech can provide? As a decendant of the Evengelical and Reformed church history I am confused by the phenomynon of the mega church in the Evangelical movement. My ancestors left the Old World to abandon religous leaders that would interfere with our ablility to have minds and opinions of our own. Leaders that would attempt to replace the sacred and personal relationship that we have with our creator. Yet members of many these communities flock like lambs with little decent or scrutney about the corporate powers they offer church leaders. I pray that we all search for having healthier organizations and communities that provide a sanctuary for the vunerable and searching, remembering that for the least of us in the pew, confronting authority is the most intimidating. The religious community needs to encourage educational programs in the local churches tht stress having healthier relationships and boundaries with those who hold leadership. We need the freedom to be sceptics of authority. A community needs to hold authority collectively and not place it too heavily on anyone person. We need to know that even God can handle our decent.>

He is a hypocrite, and is one of a medium-long line of Christians in the limelight that have let sin take over their lives. I think it is despicable, and I applaud the congregation for the action they took, to fire him from the pulpit, of which he will most likely never preach again. One thing about being a Christian, you hate the sin, not the sinner, and the fact is, if he recognizes his disease, and asks for forgiveness, he will not be condemned here on earth, but will sit in judgment before God on his actions. We all make mistakes. I know I do, and I’m sure you do, too. It’s the degree of mistakes that people make that get noticed, and it is my hope that those big mistakes I make, will eventually be forgiven. It’s what people do with their sins that will lead to repentance, not to continue to do the same thing, which is what will lead to condemnation.>

we are all sinners but we don’t all go around bashing people for how they feel they were born, bragging about getting the president elected by all this morality & then go out & do the same thing for kicks. Teg Haggard defintely lived in a glass house & threw boulders at others.