Brian McLaren: Advice for Barack Obama
Thanks for entering the 2008 presidential race. I know a lot of people feel as I do: After several elections where we felt we were left to choose between tired and uninspiring candidates with little fresh to offer except new twists on old electioneering techniques, it seems that in the upcoming primary elections, at least, we will have several exciting options. In both parties, in fact, we may get to choose between a number of fresh, creative, and substantial candidates instead of settling for the lesser of famliar disappointments. I hope that we will feel the same way when it comes down to two candidates in the 2008 presidential elections as well.No doubt you'll be getting a lot of advice and requests from a lot of people in the coming weeks, and the only reason I think mine deserves to be heard is that I know I'm expressing what a lot of people feel. So I would like to make this request at the beginning of your campaign.
Please don't lie to us. Please forego both the repulsive, deceptive, and twisted lies and also the flattering lies we like to hear. For example, I heard a fellow candidate recently trot out the tired old line, "America is the greatest country in the history of the world." This makes Americans feel good and gets applause. Maybe it wins votes. But it is a lie.
Yes, we are the richest country. Yes, we have the most weapons. Yes, we dominate in many fields, from sports to pop music to movies to pornographic websites to resource consumption and waste production. But the seductive lie of superiority is bad for any nation, including ours. Any nation that keeps telling itself that it is the greatest will become a proud nation (if it isn't already), and pride, I have it on good authority, comes before a fall. Pride makes nations, as
individuals, unpleasant and ugly neighbors, and so candidates make a bad long-term decision when they seek to coddle pride in exchange for votes. If they win, they will preside over a country that their rhetoric has made more ugly and more likely to fall.
Instead of telling us this lie of American superiority, please tell us the truths that we need to hear. Tell us, as you just did in your campaign-launch speech, inconvenient truths – that we and our leaders have a habit of making mistakes and blaming others – whether it's in New Orleans or Baghdad. Tell us the truth about our past – from our own original genocide and ongoing apartheid regarding the Native peoples of this land, to our profoundly unacknowledged and unhealed legacy of slavery and racism, to our failure to care properly for this beautiful part of God's green earth, to our desperate and shameful violations of our own principles and ideals around the world, from Congo to Chile, and from Central America to the Middle East.
Those who say, "Those things are in the past, we should just move on," would never say that about, say, September 11, 2001. Tell us the truth that we have unfinished business, recalling the old proverb that says the one who hides his transgressions will not prosper, but the one who confesses and forsakes them will find mercy. South Africa discovered how a different future is possible when a nation tells the truth about its past, and you could help us have our own time of truth and reconciliation.
And of course, please tell us the truth about the hope that comes through truth-telling. You and John Edwards and several other candidates have already begun inspiring many of us with your hope – audacious hope regarding poverty, environmental healing, and peace. Because, as you say, another world is possible. Many of us dare to hope that, and if you don't tell us the old political lies and instead tell us the inconvenient truth, then our shared emerging hopes
can become a dynamic new reality.
All of us are cynical at times, but in the launch of your campaign, I feel more hopeful and inspired than I have in a long time. Thank you.
Brian McLaren (brianmclaren.net) is an author, speaker, Red Letter Christian, and serves as board chair for Sojourners/Call to Renewal. His most recent book is The Secret Message of Jesus, and his next book, Everything Must Change: Jesus, Global Crises, and a Revolution of Hope, will be released later this year.
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Comments
This old schtick sounds exactly like the gooogly-eyed talk my conservative right-wing aquaintances have about their aspiring political messiahs.
Same talk, different parties.
Posted by: Brian | February 12, 2007 3:53 PM
Brian McLaren, Thank you.
Posted by: Daniel | February 12, 2007 4:15 PM
McLaren's Advice for Barack Obama is "Thanks for entering the 2008 presidential race"? How 501(c)3 of him. Yes, Sen. Obama, instead of speaking of policy or solutions, please continue to bemoan the present state of affiars and offer platitudes about how we can do better, if only we have a little bit of a thing called hope.
Can someone explain to me how this does not constitute a new twist on old electioneering techniques? I'm aware that everyone does it, but let's not pretend that Obama is somehow above the fray.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 12, 2007 5:04 PM
In the last year it seems that Barack has slipped into the well worn Dem. talking points (Edwards has never done anything but parrot the points). I would love to see a candidate from either party step forward and have thoughts and beliefs of his own (even if I disagree). I don't see a candidate from either party that isn't just an empty suit or dress.
My advice to Barack is to tell us what you believe.
Posted by: Jeff | February 12, 2007 5:04 PM
I am looking forward to how the H. Clinton camp will handle Barack Hussein Obama. She has to derail him somehow or her chance at the Oval Office is at risk. I believe that the primaries might be more interesting than the general election. Later .
Posted by: moderatelad | February 12, 2007 5:45 PM
Brian McLaren wrote: Instead of telling us this lie of American superiority, please tell us the truths that we need to hear. Tell us, as you just did in your campaign-launch speech, inconvenient truths that we and our leaders have a habit of making mistakes and blaming others whether it's in New Orleans or Baghdad. Tell us the truth about our past from our own original genocide and ongoing apartheid regarding the Native peoples of this land, to our profoundly unacknowledged and unhealed legacy of slavery and racism, to our failure to care properly for this beautiful part of God's green earth, to our desperate and shameful violations of our own principles and ideals around the world, from Congo to Chile, and from Central America to the Middle East. Yes, by all means I hope Barack Obama dwells on all these topics, to no end and in painstaking detail. By doing so he will turn his campaign into a total downer and pretty much blow whatever chance he has at winning the general election. How's this for a campaign slogan? "America: It's an awful place, but somebody has to run it!" Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | February 12, 2007 6:02 PM
moderatelad, The interesting thing is how will the Clintons smear Barack and then blame it on the Republicans? They were successful at doing this to Howard Dean.
Will the Chicago Machine give Hillary (and CNN) an open field to undermine Barak? Will Jesse and Al S. let it happen? This could get real interesting.
Posted by: Jeff | February 12, 2007 6:11 PM
I am surprised that Hillary has not made noise about Obama's criticism of John Howard. She could have scored some points there.
I think she was thrown off of her strategy by Obama's early announcement, but she should be hitting this high fastball out of the park if she doesn't want to be another Elizabeth Dole. And, yeah, I don't think anyone is going anywhere, electorally, by babbling about our legacy of slavery.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 12, 2007 6:20 PM
Jeff | 02.12.07 - 1:16 pm | #
Barack Hussein Obama needs to write a good 'I have a dream' speech and what his collateral go up. If he could develop a vision and not a telescope looking at the past - I think that he could win the Dem nomination. Wolverine | 02.12.07 - 1:07 pm | #
What about... "America - take a shot at US." With Barack Hussein Obama in charge - we will not retaliate. Later .
Posted by: moderatelad | February 12, 2007 6:36 PM
real individualist and one who claims to be a real individualist comes down to something very simple. That is the real individualist always emits a unique style of communication; a continual open invitation for thoughtful exploration of the topic at hand. You see there's something at the core of our being that trumps the individual and her or his capacity to act. A good communicator cooperates gracefully with the inevitable. It's not about "uniting" or "dividing." It's about quality communication vs. separation.
Posted by: Frank | February 12, 2007 6:38 PM
Would someone please tell me what Obama has done to even warrant consideration for the presidency? His election in 2004 was going to be against the disgraced Jack Ryan until he dropped out because of moral issues, and the Republicans couldn't find a replacement other than the out-of-state Alan Keyes to run against him. Two years of undistinguished Senate experience does not qualify you for the presidency, even if you are articulate.
Posted by: Cads | February 12, 2007 6:50 PM
Brian, I am disappointed in you. Don't put your hope in conventional politicians. And Obama appears to have no fresh new ideas, and to fully accept the conventional wisdom which has gotten us into so much trouble. Obama is yet another consistent death ethic candidate. Although he opposes the Iraq War, he does not challenge the war system at all. Although he acknowledges that the death penalty does not deter crime, he nevertheless favors it for vengeance (his Christian education seems to have omitted that vengeance is the Lord's). And he is a pro-abortion extremist. We have plenty of conventional, consistent death ethic candidates crawling out of the woodwork. Obama is distinguishable only be a different ethnic background, and perhaps because he relies even more on platitudes and less on policy positions than most Presidential candidates. Sojourners seems to have chosen to be a Democratic front group rather than stand for Christian values. This is sad.
Posted by: Bill Samuel | February 12, 2007 8:34 PM
Good job everyone, let's all trounce Brian and Barack Obama because Brian advised him to be honest. Brilliant!
Posted by: Daniel | February 12, 2007 8:57 PM
"Sojourners seems to have chosen to be a Democratic front group rather than stand for Christian values." You mean there's a difference? Clearly you haven't read the gospels. Jesus said "least of these". Get with the program. But seriously, surely you are aware that this is a partisan organization. We had that discussion a long time ago. The question, then, is whether you think the Democratic party embodies Christ's values.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 12, 2007 8:59 PM
Cads | 02.12.07 - 1:55 pm | #
He's black and he looks good. Ryan would not have dropped out had it not been to the Ill Dem. Party going to court with the NYTimes I believe and getting his divorce records un-sealed (what would have happened if the same thing was done to JFKerry?) Ryan was off the mark for me but at least he only wanted to have sex with his wife and not everyone else s wife. (Albeit in public at a sex club) Bill Samuel | Homepage | 02.12.07 - 3:39 pm | #
Great summation of Sojourners - could not have said it better myself. I have yet to see an article remotely positive about a republican. (Evidently - the Dems do 'get it.') Later .
Posted by: moderatelad | February 12, 2007 9:04 PM
The vitriol that some people on this list have directed toward Obama is telling: Conservatives are scared of him. Visit his website and look under "Issues." He has systematic stands on a number of issues, stands that no doubt will be developed further in the next 12 months. As for experience: Abraham Lincoln in 1860--one term in U.S. Congress, 1847-49; several terms in the Illinois state legislature; defeated in run for U.S. Senate, 1858. Aren't you glad that in 1860 the Republicans went with Abe rather than the far more experienced William Henry Seward or Salmon P. Chase?
Posted by: Carl Copas | February 12, 2007 9:59 PM
About as good a candidate as Bobby Kennedy. Hope, inspiration and articulation. Let's pray that he can beat the corporate machine known as Hillary Clinton. If Hillary is the dem nominee, all hope is lost.
Posted by: David J | February 12, 2007 10:47 PM
Whether or not America is the greatest country ever is more a matter of one's assessment of the evidence and how one views greatness. I wouldn't call it a "lie," because surely the case could be made for America's greatness. The candidate who said this could be wrong, but they're not lying.
I would like to know what Republican candidates McLaren is "excited" about. I've never seen Sojourners contributors excited about any Republican. I would also like to know what candidate ever campaigned on the "truth about our past." As Wolverine said, it makes for a gloomy campaign. No one's done it because no one wants to hear it and it doesn't work.
Posted by: jesse | February 12, 2007 10:47 PM
Well I think's refreshing to have more candor in the political debate. Obama does provide that. p
Posted by: Payshun | February 12, 2007 10:55 PM
Oh yes, run a campaign on slavery and make Obama about as appealing to the white voters that he needs to win as Jesse Jackson. Any more brilliant advice like that and he can stay home. No one ever won an election by telling people something they did not want to listen to and it don't count if he don't win. No one remembers anything the losers say unless it is something funny enough.
Posted by: chuck | February 12, 2007 11:28 PM
Candidate Obama is a new thing. I think we ought to do as Carl suggested and look up his web site. He could be a better choice than Hillary who the Dems should realize would be a definate bring out the vote draw for Republicans. I hear the guy smokes cigarettes, which makes me like him right away,and I just heard that he isn't African American. He is African-African American as he has no heritage of slavery in his family tree. I for one will keep my opinions to myself until I have heard and seen more.
Posted by: wayne | February 13, 2007 12:03 AM
The mainstream media is all gaga over Obama, but do we really know anything about him? Based on his lack of experience, I do not know why anyone would vote for Obama; also, if he bashes the country as bad as Brian seems to want him to, no way he would win; American liberals have been bashing the country for as long as I remember; while I agree we need to watch our pride, I would ask Brian if he knows anyone alive who was a slave, or who hasnt been alive at least since the voting rights act almost 50 yrs ago, or can he specifically articulate an act of current "genocide" against Native Americans?? Hogwash!
Posted by: mickey | February 13, 2007 12:32 AM
Barack Obama backs up his talk. If you want to find out about what a Senator has acutally done (as opposed to what they say), you have to actually look up the legislation they have introduced or how they voted. The Senate Virtual Reference Desk is a pretty good place to start. You can't take any politician at their word without checking up on them, but I believe that Obama really is a fresh and exciting voice. It is shaping up to be an interesting primary season.
Posted by: randolpht | February 13, 2007 12:36 AM
I hope Obama does not go down that worn out old road that Brian McLaren is spouting "America is the problem". That crap has cost us 35 years of progressive reform. If he does go down that road I will sit out the election and finally realize that the left is no less stupid than the right. People like McLaren like to pin medals of failure on themselves and then blame the opposition for failing to be convinced. We were never beaten by the Right, we beat ourselves; time for McClaren and others to come out of the '60's and get a grip. Phil
Posted by: phil | February 13, 2007 1:00 AM
Why is all this advice directed at Sen. Obama? Methinks Mr. McLaren has endorsed his candidate.
God bless.
Posted by: Joey | February 13, 2007 1:05 AM
Sigh...politics are rather depressing. They bring out the ugliness in people. Will it ever be possible for people, especially those who profess to know God, to talk politics in POSITIVE terms?? I agree with the few who espoused the value of truthful politicians. That would be sincerely refreshing.
Posted by: Esther | February 13, 2007 1:33 AM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with many of you here and say "Thank you" to Mr. McLaren for saying what so many people my own age are thinking (I'm 25). We are hoping that maybe one day we can have JUST ONE President who will tell it like it is, even if it IS nasty. JUST ONE who, upon telling the down and dirty truth, will be willing to ask the PEOPLE for solutions. JUST ONE who will admit that they might have done the wrong thing in the past, but that they are human, and they are willing to make amends in the future. Honesty is not always a bad thing, and too many older people have become cynical of honesty. Don't think of only the immediate mess that could come from being honest, instead think ahead to the future conversations and understanding that we can come to from being honest with ourselves and each other. Too many people are no longer patriotic. And while TOO much patriotism can lead to a feeling of superiority, there is also no longer the balanced amount that makes us proud to go our and say "I'm American". I only hope that, through time, healing, and the change that can only come from a candidate being fired up about being ONE of many Americans, that we can become a GOOD and patriotic nation again.
Posted by: Jesse | February 13, 2007 2:31 AM
Anyway, now that we have McLaren's advice for Barack Obama, I'd like to know if anyone at Sojourners has any unsolicited advice for some of the other candidates.
For instance, there's John Edwards, whose outreach to religious persons took a bit of a hit when it was revealed that his official blogger, Amanda Marcotte, had made some very angry and ignorant comments relating to the "white, hot, sticky" Holy Spirit. Here's a guy with a real religion-and-politics issue. Does anyone at Sojourners have the guts to discuss this? You can ignore it, but there's no reason to believe it will go away, at least not until Edwards does. Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | February 13, 2007 3:05 AM
Don't just read the first three sentences and assume you're looking at another Sojourners-Democratic Party lovefest. That's just not the case here. Yes, McLaren's post thanks the candidate for daring to speak about the poor and to give some hope for a more honest politics than what we've had lately. But the main point here is to challenge Obama to do what no mainstream politician has done - to lead with humility and shed the arrogance that says 'America does no wrong.' You can't read that and then say, "Well, McLaren has already picked his candidate." At the same time, I do agree with whoever pointed out that there are never really any postings here praising any efforts of Republicans. Last time I remember Sojo doing that was in fall of '05 when Sen. Grassley (?) helped preserve food stamps in the Ag budget.
Posted by: B.V.C.P. | February 13, 2007 3:30 AM
And to wolverine's latest comment, add the news tonight that Amanda Marcotte has resigned from the Edwards campaign. This is clearly good news for Edwards, but now I do believe the story will just go away and he'll never really have to answer for it. He's demonstrated some good sensibilities regarding faith in the past. But honestly, what a boneheaded decision by his campaign to hire those two in the first place.
Posted by: B.V.C.P. | February 13, 2007 3:54 AM
Jesse | 02.12.07 - 9:36 pm | #
But telling it like it is does not get the votes. People gravitate towards the candidate that has a vision. That can see past where we are and tell us where we need to be. They want to hear about the 'city on the hill' rather than the dump at the edge of town. Later .
Posted by: moderatelad | February 13, 2007 3:59 AM
"Good job everyone, let's all trounce Brian and Barack Obama because Brian advised him to be honest." Brian didn't advise him to be honest. He advised him to vilify America. He thanked Obama for running. I'll go ahead and trounce on him for that. This organization has been building up to this moment for months. They have all but endorsed a candidate. I think you are intelligent enough to read between the lines here.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 4:34 AM
Great. Now speaking out about things wrong with the United States past and present is to "vilify America." And we wonder why our leaders converse in political baby-talk.
Posted by: Carl Copas | February 13, 2007 4:54 AM
You can refrain from focusing on slavery without engaging in baby-talk. You know what I mean.
McLaren has not asked anything of Obama in thei "advice" column. Reason being is that Sojo endorses his candidacy. Would any reasonable person disagree at this point?
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 5:54 AM
In a previous post, Carl pointed out that Obama has as much experience as Abraham Lincoln had when he was elected president.
Well, I knew Abe Lincoln, and Barack Obama is no Abraham Lincoln! And no Carl, conservatives aren't scared of Obama; we just don't see what the fuss is all about. I took your advice and went to his website to find out the particulars of his views. Other than Iraq, all of his ideas seem to be pretty generic.
Posted by: Cads | February 13, 2007 7:24 AM
Kevin, I think it's a little premature to say that Sojourners endorses Barack Obama. All we have is this one article and some earlier criticism of Joe Biden. The Boss Guy (Jim Wallis) has yet to make his thoughts on Obama known and until he does I don't think we can authoritatively say that Sojourners has made even an informal endorsement. That having been said, it would surprise me if they didn't go in big for Barack Obama at some point. He has all the appearance of representing a fresh new approach to politics, but his policies are, for the most part, orthodox liberalism.
Presenting all of the appearances, but few of the risks, of a fresh approach to liberal governance, Barack Obama is a strong Democratic primary candidate and an ideal candidate for Sojourners. Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | February 13, 2007 2:31 PM
Brian, Brian, Brian, If any ideology forms a superiority complex of the graetest magnatude, it is the one we now know as "Liberal-Progressive." There is nothing more egomaniacal, almost sociopathetic, then a person and political party that really believes it can forcefully take other peoples money (by taxing honest hard-working people) and spend it on a welfare state, killing the inconvenient unborn and creating a socialist government on American lands. That IS what the Democrats ARE. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez et al, all commies and all heroes to the "Left" now running and ruling the Democrat party. Why is it, that Democrats just can't come out and be honest about their communist, secularization goals for the once United States of America? If their ideology is so great, why not shout it from the rooftops? The taxes and morality of the Liberal-Progressives is communism through and through. China's doing OK huh?
A little honesty in politics would be nice from the Left, just once in a while. OK Brian? Not everyone that has attended college is a tatooed and pierced freak show Brain. Some of us know what's up.
Posted by: Stephen Davidson | February 13, 2007 2:57 PM
Kevin, But, yes, you've exposed the secret plot. Barack Obama is a liar and a sleezebag and Brian McLaren is an American hating commie. RIDICULOUS. Either Donny is using your name to post or you've lost touch with reality.
Posted by: Daniel | February 13, 2007 3:04 PM
"But, yes, you've exposed the secret plot. Barack Obama is a liar and a sleezebag and Brian McLaren is an American hating commie. RIDICULOUS." Um, is Butch using your name to post? Calm down. That would be ridiculous if that is what I said. But what I actually said was that, in this article (which I see as a veritable endorsement, but you can debate that) McLaren is advising Obama to talk about America's past failings for reasons that are not entirely clear.
Further, it is ridiculous to state that our legacy of slavery is unacknowledged. It is in every history book. Our schoolchildren are required to read literature about it. We have an entire black history month devoted to reconciliation.
If you want to talk about not acknowledgin the past, talk to Germany.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 3:46 PM
Kevin, Your fellow Minnesotan Al Franken said something like, "Conservatives love America like the child loves a mother - she is perfect, can do no wrong, and every woman ought to be like her. Liberals," he says, "love America like an adult loves their mother - she is imperfect and makes many mistakes, ones that cannot be overlooked and unacknowledged, but she is still incredible and our love for her is an indelible fact of life." When I compare your comments to Brian's post this is what I see.
And yet you are cynical about Obama's intentions and honesty and Brian's intentions and honesty. They are subject to some standards of behavior that you seem to exempt America itself from. Consistency is not an absolute good but its absence sometime makes reasonable discussion alomst impossible....
Posted by: Daniel | February 13, 2007 4:26 PM
Kevin, For all their faults, the Germans have been fairly honest about acknowledging their past, including the horrors of the National Socialist government. To give one example, there is a large memorial to Holocaust victims just a short walk from the Brandenburg Gate and the Reichstag, where the current Bundestag sits. I was there a couple years ago -- believe me the memorial is a hard one to miss. Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | February 13, 2007 4:55 PM
That's an absurd statement about the Conservative perspective on America. There are numerous things we want to change, and numerous social ills we wish to remedy.
I don't think Brian's statements have a lot of substance, but I said nothing about his honesty. To the extent that Obama runs as anything other than a very liberal senator from Illinois, he will be dishonest, but that remains to be seen, which begs a question of how someone can inspire so much hope without saying what he is going to do.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 4:58 PM
I'm going to risk being labeled a "one issue voter" (I am not) but it is unfathomable to me, a non-Republican progressive minded Christian, how Sojourners and those that write for them can have no qualms about a senator who cannot even support a bill to provide health care for the survivors of failed abortion attempts. This is unspeakable. The issue of life is, to me, the big elephant in the corner of the progressive Christians room. As much as I want to ally myself with much of what Sojourners is about, to go in the direction Sojurners *seems* to take on this issue is one that crosses and redirects away from anything interested in following the way of Jesus and continuing the justice-oriented ethic of the Christian church throught history. I'm speaking passionately (and I hope sincerely) but Christianity, especially we Protestants, need a voice that can speek consistently on justice and life - a voice that goes deeper than the typical "pro-life bumper sticker" mentality.
Please, please, Sojourners, Brian McLaren. Be a voice here too. I'm not asking to let this replace the other multi-layered calls for justice. But don't neglect this issue. Be fully subversive and counter-cultural.
Posted by: Brian (the other Brian) | February 13, 2007 5:20 PM
Kevin, Okay, do you feel better now that you've offered more cyncism?
Posted by: Daniel | February 13, 2007 5:53 PM
Brian the other Brian, You referred to Oabam as "a senator who cannot even support a bill to provide health care for the survivors of failed abortion attempts." I am not familiar with this, would you mind expanding on this?
Posted by: Daniel | February 13, 2007 6:00 PM
I heard a news guy talking about Obama's interview the other day where he was sitting next to his wife and was discussing the fact that he smokes. He said that he had decided to quit smoking "because he loved his wife..."
yeah... that and the fact that he just entered the presidential race... Hmmmmm, here comes Mr. Spinbama
Posted by: TMAC | February 13, 2007 6:15 PM
Mr. Obama has lost a great deal of credibility with this voter by declaring support for a higher military budget. This is the last thing we need. I am no more enthusiastic about Democratic imperialism ala Kenedy/Johnson than I am about Republican Imperialism ala Kissinger/ PNAC. We need to back off of the self appointed role of the world's high sherriff. We need to eliminate the star wars program, start getting rid of nuclear weapons and other WMDs, slow down our investment in high tech weapons and start training soldiers and the army to do what they did after WW2:help war torn countries transition to the peacable rule of law. We now spend a higher percent of of our taxes on the military than we did in the midst of WW2. Where are the democratic candidates criticism of the current executive branch use of spying on Americans without warrant, seizing private bank information, torture, extraordinary rendition,arrests of Americans and immigrants without due process. I want clear moral commitments, not vague patriotic platitudes or promises from a party that won't defund the war they oppose or impeach a lawbreaking president.
To my reading Brian is just calling for a more modest and reality based love for country that acknowledges our sins and errors and seeks to learn from those errors in order to change for the better. I think our experience in Iraq sets a stage in which this is the only approach that makes sense.
Posted by: Joseph Tracy | February 13, 2007 6:18 PM
"Okay, do you feel better now that you've offered more cyncism?" This is the convenient thing about wrapping you candidacy with a message of hope. Anyone who disagrees with your policy, or thinks that you lack substance can be called cynical.
Cynical would be thinking that Obama's team is craftily handling his smoking addiction to make him seem human, but also courageous for quitting, thereby turning a nasty habit and a bad example into a positive. That's cynical.
"Where are the democratic candidates criticism of the current executive branch... I want clear moral commitments, not vague patriotic platitudes or promises from a party that won't defund the war they oppose or impeach a lawbreaking president. " His name is Dennis Kucinich. He is not offering any hope, though. And I am pretty sure he is unelectable. He's part of the hope-free fringe.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 6:34 PM
Kevin, Giuliani is setting himself up as the hope/optimism candidate on the Right and has the same rhetorical convenience at his disposal if he so chooses. Does this mean that all his opponents are in actuality not cynical? Or is that just a mental somersault you do when you don't like someone already and WANT to attack them?
Posted by: Daniel | February 13, 2007 7:01 PM
I don't see how Americans saying we are the greatest country in the world is any more palatable than an individual announcing "I am the greatest person in town". It is obnoxious, un-Christian, and sounds uncomfortably like the endless proclamations of racism, imperialism, fascism, and all forms of exceptionalism.
I think Barack needs to listen to Martin Luther Kings speech on Vietnam and American militarism.
Posted by: Joseph Tracy | February 13, 2007 7:02 PM
Thank you Brian McLaren. Your soft-spoken truth-telling is inspiring. Your lack of animosity is glaring. I appreciate your admonition to Mr. Obama and desire to heed that call to honesty in my own life.
Posted by: Dan Gilliam | February 13, 2007 7:21 PM
" Does this mean that all his opponents are in actuality not cynical? Or is that just a mental somersault you do when you don't like someone already and WANT to attack them?" No. Fire away at Giuliani, though I think he's running as the gravitas guy moreso than the optimism guy. I disagree with a lot of his stances, and it will be interesting to see if (or, rather, how) he moves to the right before the primaries.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 7:24 PM
Kevin I do not know any African American who thinks we have dealt with the "Legacy" of slavery. I do know many white guys who think because they have read a few books and admit it happened long ago that they have dealt with it as much as they feel necessary. As long as there are guys like Stephen D. we whities will have to pay attention. As long as it is just we who think its over I doubt it will be. We have much to do along these lines. A month dedicated to reconciliation wherein we are not reconciled is nothing to crow about. When the church is still the most segregated group in America, we can't crow much either. Bring Obama on and lets see what he has to say. Did he really say he was going to quit smoking? Bummer! But I guess the last thing this country needs is another President with a cigar.
Posted by: Wayne | February 13, 2007 7:24 PM
Yes, I hope you are right. But doesn't he sound just a little "too good to be true"? I too, would enjoy some real talk about how "un-spectacular" we are as a country and how we have our own demons to deal with. And maybe, just maybe, some real dealing with those same demons. I'm daring to hope again...and it's been a while. But I'm not holding my breath...yet.
Posted by: HBohanan | February 13, 2007 7:28 PM
For the record Obama has already called our country magical, among many other superlatives. I doubt we'll be hearing any "America is not the greatest nation" talk. Either way, I think we are top five.
The fact that some people might still be racist does not mean that I have not acknowledged slavery, or that our country has not. I am not suggesting we forget about it, or drop it. But I think it is ridiculous to say that we haven't acknowledged it.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 8:04 PM
Saying it happened and seeing one's role in the context of slavery are two different things. The reality is that many don't see any connection to it.
p
Posted by: Payshun | February 13, 2007 8:19 PM
Kevin S.: "And, yeah, I don't think anyone is going anywhere, electorally, by babbling about our legacy of slavery." I don't think that Mr. McLaren was urging Mr. Obama to dwell on these subjects but to not ignore them either. Based on the tenor of you posts, I get the impression that you are part of the crowd that loves to hear how the U.S. is the greatest nation on earth. Besides that line being over-used and worn out, it is simply untrue.
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 13, 2007 8:23 PM
Payshun: "Saying it happened and seeing one's role in the context of slavery are two different things. The reality is that many don't see any connection to it." Why would you, when it requires some sort of empathy and compassion?
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 13, 2007 8:25 PM
Cads: "Two years of undistinguished Senate experience does not qualify you for the presidency, even if you are articulate." No less qualified than the present drunken driving apparently AWOL, inarticulate, unjustified war-mongering occupant we presently have!
Oh so sorry, did you vote for the present occupant?
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 13, 2007 8:28 PM
"Besides that line being over-used and worn out, it is simply untrue." Which nation is the greatest?
"No less qualified than the present drunken driving apparently AWOL, inarticulate, unjustified war-mongering occupant we presently have!" Bush was very popular in Texas, and had strong bi-partisan support.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 13, 2007 9:12 PM
Cads, obviously Obama is no Abraham Lincoln. My point simply was that to flatly dismiss a candidate on grounds of inexperience is to ignore some pretty good presidents in the past who were criticized for lacking experience. kevin s, being honest about certain stains on the American historical record is not "vilifying" the nation. It may be that we don't interpret "vilify" in the same way. Your interpretation of the spin on Obama's smoking is plausible; we shall see. Anyone, for an example of a nation that's done a lousy job of facing up to its past, look at Japan.
Posted by: Carl Copas | February 13, 2007 9:22 PM
Since this is supposed to be a site about religion and politics, does anyone else think that Sen. Obama's home church, Trinity UCC in Chicago, www.tucc.org, with its emphasis on "Black Values," doesn't have a clue about Ephesians 2:11-22? I know the same could be said of many white churches, with their emphasis of their German or Scottish or Dutch culture, but shouldn't we be working to build bridges between cultures and races IN the church, rather than working to REINFORCE one particular culture? Keeping in mind that it was largely this church's pastor that convinced Sen. Obama to be a Christian, does it bother anyone else out there? Or am I just weird?
Posted by: chris | February 13, 2007 10:39 PM
While everyone is focused on Senators Obama and Clinton they're ignoring the best candidate-New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. He served 14 years in congress, 4 years as US Secretary of Energy, 4 years as US Ambassador to the UN and was just re-elected Governor. He won re-election with 69% of the vote- the highest ever for a governor of New Mexico and 40% of the Republican vote, again the highest for any governor fof his state. He has negotiated face to face with leaders of North Korea, Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein and members of Al Queida and gotten what he wanted from them. He has created 50,000 new jobs in New Mexico, many of them high paying, high tech jobs. New Mexico is in compliance with the Kyoto Protocals, and ranks sixth in the nation for personal income growth. He recently went to Darfur at the request of the Save Darfur Coalition (isn't Sojourners a part of that) and helped broker a temporary ceasefire. While all the other candidates talk the talk he has actually done it. But don't take my word for it. Check out his website www.richardsonforpresident.com.
Posted by: Joy | February 13, 2007 11:14 PM
Chris, I see nothing wrong w/ a pro black message. I also think the church must learn to unite but I honestly think many blacks are tired of trying and many whites have seldom put their hearts into it. I honestly think it would be great for white people to put the effort in and go and be apart of UCC. I think then we would see something interesting. p
Posted by: Payshun | February 14, 2007 12:26 AM
Brian, What do we actually know about Barack Obama? Nothing. I would be curious as to where you would rather live than the United States? France? Sure we have problems, every country has problems. Hope will not and should not come from political candidates on either side of the aisle. Only through Jesus Christ transforming lives can we truly see change in this nation. Be politically active - I believe this is part of our mandate of being salt and light, but realize where true change comes from. It won't come from Washington.
Posted by: Shane Vander Hart | February 14, 2007 1:43 AM
Joseph Tracy, Great comments in support of the values in "God's Politics". Your "Homepage" link isn't working. Please contact me at hayesmike@InsightBB.com
Posted by: Mike Hayes | February 14, 2007 3:04 AM
Carl, I was just trying to be funny by using the Loyd Bentson line (1988) about Dan Quayle being no Jack Kennedy. I guess you're too young to remember. Timbuktoo (funny how that rhymes with "fu2"), your bitterness with the president could use some anger management counseling. Try singing "I Feel Pretty" until it goes away.
Posted by: Cads | February 14, 2007 6:51 AM
Kevin S: Which nation is the greatest? France, of course, Kevin
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 14, 2007 10:37 AM
Kevin, Okay, do you feel better now that you've offered more cyncism? If that is the case,this place is therapeutic for Kevin!
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 14, 2007 10:38 AM
Kevin S: "Which nation is the greatest?" There is a great book by Tony Campolo and Brian McLaren. The more I read your posts, Kevin, the more I become convinced that you may have been the "poster child" for the book.
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 14, 2007 10:42 AM
Tim, Three consecutive posts insulting the same person is either exceedingly petty, pathological, or both.
Joy, I thought Edwards might be the beneficiary of Obama and Clinton's overexposure, but the blogger deal forced him from the sidelines, and made him look like an ineffectual twit in the process.
As such, I wonder if Richardson doesn't keep a low profile, raise money, and make a late surge. He's not a great looking guy, but he can tote around Obama (as VP) to be the eye candy.
Posted by: kevin s. | February 14, 2007 8:23 PM
Cads, I know you were trying to be funny. But I thought you were making a larger point as well. I remember very well Bentsen saying that to J. Danforth Quayle. It made my day. I'll do a better job in the future of maintaining my sense of humor when i read these posts. :)
Posted by: Carl Copas | February 14, 2007 9:50 PM
Kvin S: "Tim, Three consecutive posts insulting the same person is either exceedingly petty, pathological, or both." Both Kevin. Both. Coming from such an authority on pettiness and pathologies, your comment comes to me as a real compliment. Keep the cerebral posts coming. After all Kevin, no one matches your wit and wisdom.
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 14, 2007 11:15 PM
Brian, Thank you for your courageous truth-telling. David Latino Leadership Circle
Posted by: David Ramos | February 15, 2007 1:52 AM
Ok, you explained why believing that America is the greatest country in the history of the world could lead to pride, but you never got around to addressing the lie. How exactly is that statement a lie? Please inform us of the greatest country in the history of the world.
Could you also send me a map of the places in America that have suffered the failure of care? These spots must be in the 4 states that I've never been to.
Posted by: Brodie | February 15, 2007 4:43 AM
Brodie: "Please inform us of the greatest country in the history of the world." I guess Brian's point was lost on you. It's okay Brian if you need to feel that you live in the greatest country in history, go right ahead. Now let's sing "God bless America" as our brave young soldiers go fight for God and democracy all around the world.
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 15, 2007 9:07 AM
Timbuktoo, apparently the point was lost on me. Therefore I need further assistance. Brian, passes his opinion as a fact that the US is not the greatest country in the history of the world. He then provides a litany of categories in which we lead, for better or worse. But he does not address the falsity of the statement touted by the politicians. So I ask you or anyone to address that. As a starter, you don't even need to continue the bashing on the US, just point out the virtues and contributions to mankind of the nation (or surely nations) that are superior to America. You have all of human history to work with...should be easy.
Posted by: Brodie | February 15, 2007 5:22 PM
Brodie:"So I ask you or anyone to address that. As a starter, you don't even need to continue the bashing on the US, just point out the virtues and contributions to mankind of the nation (or surely nations) that are superior to America. You have all of human history to work with...should be easy." Very easy- Canada. They have achieved essentially the same standard of living for their people that we have. They have universal health care, something we lack. AND they have managed to remain out of aggressive and imperialistic wars unlike the United States. Don't know if that makes them greatest nation on earth but certainly superior to the United States. Of course you will invariably wish to differ with me. Most likely because we don't share the same values. Please save your time in telling me to go live there. My happiness doesn't depend on me living in the greatest country on God's green earth. But it is true that the arrogance of Americans in general makes one want to leave and go there. Peace.
Posted by: Timbuktoo | February 15, 2007 8:51 PM
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