Reclaiming Katrina’s Missed Opportunity
/by Adam Taylor/
Yesterday our nation marked the solemn anniversary of Hurricane Katrina with news coverage highlighting the lack of progress made since the winds and water washed away so many hopes and dreams. For many Americans, the images from Katrina may feel like distant memory, even though the arduous process of rebuilding continues at a painstaking pace. I believed and hoped that Katrina would be a watershed moment that awakened national outrage over the sleeping and all-too-invisible giants of inequality and poverty.
It seems almost providential timing that at the same moment we commemorate Katrina, the Census Bureau releases its annual statistics on poverty. The Census report provides almost a national CAT skan of our nation’s health. This year’s report offers a glimmer of good news in that the number of people living in poverty declined last year by 500,000. However, this decrease represents a modest one at best and shouldn’t obscure the shameful reality that 12.3% of Americans still live in the quicksand of poverty. Even more alarming is that the number of families living in poverty actually increased from 7.6 to 7.7 million, as did the number of people without health insurance--from 46.6 to 47 million.
Katrina held up a mirror to our nation, forcing us to ask the basic and penetrating questions, Are we really our brother or sister's keeper? What kind of nation do we aspire to be? How would we want to be cared for in the midst of a national tragedy that shipwrecks lives? What are our responsibilities to and for each other, particularly toward the weakest and most vulnerable? These are fundamentally biblical questions echoed by the scathing indictments of the biblical prophets, and by Jesus’ judgment in Mathew 25 that "Just as you did to the least of these, you also did unto me." Katrina tests our nation’s compassion, mercy, and commitment to justice, and demonstrated the urgent and unparalleled need for good and effective government.
But the government response at all levels has been at best a disappointment and at worst an unconscionable failure. We have seen an abundance of bureaucratic red tape, a cycle of inter-governmental blame, and a deficit of bold leadership. The evidence is in post-Katrina conditions and statistics that are heartbreaking. An estimated 66% of residents have returned to the city but only 10% of residents have from the now infamous Lower Ninth Ward. New Orleans suffers from the highest crime rate in the country, and an estimated 20% of the city suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder. Ten of the 23 major hospitals and medical facilities remain closed, creating a severe health care crisis.
I traveled to New Orleans in February to attend the Samuel DeWitt Proctor conference. The trip was like beholding two separate cities in one. In the French quarter it felt like the best of times, with tourists returning for revelry, while the worst of times are still being felt just miles away in entire neighborhoods and parishes struggling to rebuild from the waterlogged ashes. While the waters have receded, pain and trauma remain indelible. Where the government has failed, civil society has triumphed with an outpouring of charity and volunteerism, arguably providing the greatest engine behind the progress made so far.
I pray that the week of August 29 becomes a week of national repentance for the indifference we have so often shown toward our most vulnerable brothers and sisters. The week can also be a time for national redemption as we rededicate ourselves to the work of uplifting and empowering those Americans whose lives are circumscribed by inequality and destitution. There are Lower Ninth Wards across our country, both in urban and rural settings, whose social levies remain fragile and broken. On this anniversary I hope you will redouble your efforts to support the rebuilding efforts in the Gulf Coast and deepen your commitment to redress the root causes of poverty in our nation.
Adam Taylor is director of campaigns and organizing for Sojourners/Call to Renewal.
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Comments
We need as a society to address the needs of those displaced by the Katrina society, and bite the bullet as to what that will cost. But all too often it is just assumed this means trying to make New Orleans basically what it was before, with better levees.
This course is lunacy. The drastic efforts to alter natural systems that have typified this area can not be sustained. If we try to go this course, the best studies indicate that within decades New Orleans will become an island in the Gulf, almost entirely below sea level, maintained only by levees.
What is needed is a serious look at how to restore natural processes, and provide adequately for those who were residing in New Orleans before Katrina. This means not everyone will be able to go back to their former location, but we can see that they have decent housing in sustainable locations in southern Louisiana.
The state and local governments are sticking their heads in the sand (should I say in the levees?) because that is politically easier than facing reality. The federal government is confused and ineffective. We need less expedient politics and some statesmanship to design and implement a sustainable future for the residents displaced by Katrina.
Posted by: Bill Samuel | August 30, 2007 2:45 PM
Bill,
I completely agree with you about the necessity of restoring natural processes in reconstructing the New Orleans infrastructure for sustainability.
The other side of the NOLA tragedy is the opportunity it provides for reconstruction of a sustainable infrastructure. I hope New Orleans doesn't miss this opportunity.
Unfortunately, I don't think the crony-riddled Bush administration is up to the challenge.
I've been hearing about the misuse of public funds in contracting for NOLA reconstruction.
About Federal funds intended for the victims being slow walked through the bureacracy.
Insurance companies stiffing their customers.
It's hard for me to see any future in privatizing flood relief.
Posted by: justintime | August 30, 2007 3:40 PM
"Unfortunately, I don't think the crony-riddled Bush administration is up to the challenge."
Neither was anyone in Louisiana. You do know a hurricane hit the joint, yes? It's not like Ray Nagin or William Jefferson were any sort of heroes.
"It's hard for me to see any future in privatizing flood relief."
The corollary to this is that we must then pay to support people who live in flood prone areas.
"I've been hearing about the misuse of public funds in contracting for NOLA reconstruction."
Translation: Dailykos thinks there was a misuse of funds in contracting for NOLA reconstruction. Question. Where are you at on whether the bush administration conspired to destroy the levees. 50/50?
Mourning the loss and evaluating our indifference to the poor does not simply mean pointing fingers at the Bush administration.
Posted by: kevin s. | August 30, 2007 3:54 PM
Justintime said
About Federal funds intended for the victims being slow walked through the bureacracy
I totally agree with you , but why are not the funds being directed to the state , I would think they would better access to implement the private firms that will be needed to rebuild the city quicker. Your right a golden opportunity to infra structure , transportation system opportunities.
.
I work at toll booth and remember listening to the news . I could not believe it , New Orleans was under water, the second guy I relayed the news to laughed and said maybe they will listen to us now about Global Warming . I live in liberal Mecca , it took them a few moments to blame Bush for everyting . At first, Nature took some bows.
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | August 30, 2007 3:55 PM
Adam Taylor wrote:
Where the government has failed, civil society has triumphed with an outpouring of charity and volunteerism, arguably providing the greatest engine behind the progress made so far.
Mr. Taylor, I believe you are on the verge of a breakthrough. I would invite you to contemplate this observation.
Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | August 30, 2007 4:13 PM
If we take out the emotion and look at facts it is no wonder New Orleans is in a mess. It was before Katrina. It has always been the "Big Easy" actively seeking to be symbolized by drunken revelers careening down the streets in outlandish costumes arm in arm with mostly naked women. (Wasn't Mardi Gras the first thing that came to mind when you thought about New Orleans before Katrina?) It was and is riddled with crime (look at the current murder rate!) and corruption in all branches of government and it has been as new business adverse as any city in the United States, perhaps all civilized party of North America. Trump's casino, which fits perfectly in the milieu, is going up; other businesses are getting out. Hospitals and medical facilities are having trouble recruiting skilled professionsls. Suppose you were going erect a manufacturing plant that would employ 2000 people somewhere in the United States, taking all factors into consideration, would you choose to put the plant in New Orleans over a place like North Carolina which is business-friendly and has a fair court system?
Posted by: jsens | August 30, 2007 5:16 PM
That the greatest contribution to New Orleans' rebuilding has been civil society minus government doesn't mean it has been a success.
The basic problem isn't which political ideology gets to take credit or blame, to make political points.
The problem is that people's motivations - whether inside or outside government - have impeded progress.
And we do have a problem with a government, that, in comparison to some other western governments, definitely has a problem with basic competence in delivering basic services.
It's not success to be so poor at management that you are forced to outsource.
There could be some truth to the observation that those ascendant in governance over the past few years have been so basically hostile to it that they didn't put much importance or thought into running it well. Maybe they just thought the best thing was to divvy it up to their corporate supporters who they did have confidence in.
It seems to me that this betrays a certain lack of experience in the nature of human beings, for those who are sincere, rather than simply amoral or self-serving.
Whatever is decided to be done, ought to be done with at least minimum standards of accomplihment - and this has not been.
Harry Truman said the buck stopped with him. I see buck-passing, posturing and unaccountability.
Really there's enough going around of this to share as liberally (or conservatively) as one wouldn't wish.
Posted by: N.M. Rod | August 30, 2007 5:25 PM
WAWA Blog August 30, 2007
Sentinels, Hurricane Kat and Iraq
If it keeps on raining, the levee's gonna break
If it keeps on raining, the levee's gonna break,
Some people are still sleeping
Some people ARE WIDE AWAKE.-Bob Dylan, 2006 "Modern Times"
It has been two years since Hurricane Katrina blew in and exposed that the empire has no clothes. What happened in the Big Easy was foretold five years ago in a five-part series in the New Orleans Times-Picayune.
It also was foretold in the 2004 October edition of the National Geographic, which published a fictional story that became fact; for it laid out the scene of Hurricane Kat in incredible detail, that America and the world viewed in reality on TV. Local officials and FEMA were well informed about the probability that even a slow-moving category three hurricane would cause catastrophic loss and a lot of human miseries, for 19th-century levees were not designed for that eventuality.
For years, climatologists have predicted and warned us that powerful storms will occur more frequently in the 21st century, because of rising sea levels from global warming.
The hardest-working marsh in America is the Louisiana bayou, and its health has been neglected. For three hundred years, men have built walls and levees to control that mighty force of nature, and it has wrecked havoc on New Orleans’s natural defenses. From the Mississippi border to the Texas state line, Louisiana is losing its protective fringe of marshes and barrier islands faster than any other place in the U.S.A.
Homeland Security should protect the homeland, but the War in Iraq costs American taxpayers two million a day on top of the $135 Billion the 'war on terror' began with.
The very innards of our nation are collapsing, and a government that has been commissioned to protect its citizens continues to blow it big time in support of Big Oil and the Industrial Military Complex.
“Any nation that year after year continues to raise the Defense budget while cutting social programs to the neediest is a nation approaching spiritual death.” - Rev. MLK
Project Billboard and the Center for American Progress released an analysis of the cost of the Iraq war, detailing exactly multiple projects to make America safer at home and stronger abroad.
"The "Opportunity Cost of the Iraq War" report reveals that for the cost of the Iraq war to date, the United States could have undertaken 18 major projects to strengthen its security in the world and at home. Some of these include:
§ Adding two new divisions to the Army
§ Putting 100,000 new police officers on the nation's streets
§ Doubling the size of the Firefighters Grant Program
§ Doubling America's Special Operations forces
§ Undertaking significant improvements to safeguard ports
§ Funding important initiatives to safeguard loose nuclear weapons
"More could be done to better secure or eliminate nuclear weapons, material and technology to prevent terrorists from developing and exploding nuclear or dirty bombs….These are just a few proposals that would have represented a better investment in America's security than the…Iraq "war of choice." http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/08/b171440.html
No thinking person disputes the oppressive nature of Saddam Hussein's regime and also understands that Iraq was not involved in the planning or execution of the September 11 attacks and Iraq did not have a collaborative operational relationship with Al Qaida.
American army bases in Afghanistan and Iraq are based all along the oil piple line and we the people have a homeland that is under-funded. Our sister and brother citizens on the Gulf Coast have been forgotten; for out of sight is out of mind.
But, redemption is always possible and the good news is that on June 20, 2007, Sen. Chris Dodd [D-CT.] sponsored S. 1668: Gulf Coast Housing Recovery Act of 2007, a senate bill with a heart for the poor and needy Americans on the Gulf Coast. This bill will require the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to allow specified uses by Louisiana of certain funds under the Road Home Program and sets a deadline for the Housing Authority of New Orleans to make a certain number of dwelling units available for occupancy among many other things to benefit those still suffering the aftermath of Hurricane Kat.
Most every heart in America was broken as we witnessed the horror of our sister and brother citizens on roof tops and in squalor after the levees broke. Hearts can turn cold and hard when we forget to remember what had once pierced them open, but redemption is always available and we the people can do something.
Robert Greenwald's video of New Orleans today in which you can see and hear American's say that they have been forgotten and are still suffering because the conventional 'wisdom' increases the Defense budget but forgets to remember that we are to be our brother's keepers and what we should be doing is what we want done unto us.
DO SOMETHING: Let your heart break open again and sign the petition in support of Senator Dodd's recovery act to assist the Gulf Coast region in rebuilding the infrastructure that was lost after Hurricane Katrina and Rita wrecked havoc:
http://whenthesaints.org/
If it keeps on raining, the levee's gonna break
If it keeps on raining, the levee's gonna break,
Some people are still sleeping
Some people ARE WIDE AWAKE.
Posted by: eileen fleming | August 30, 2007 6:29 PM
I think there is a lot of blame to go around.
People lay a lot on G. Bush and he has failed in many ways.
The collective blame can be lain on many shoulders.
The local and state governments are to answer for much confusion and corruption.
Of the billions poured into that area and the credit cards that were used to buy luxuries, not necessities, and the horrific crimes that the people committed, who could expect any good results?
If someone could get the basic moral codes up and running, the problems would be diminished considerably.
Posted by: AV Brown | August 30, 2007 6:34 PM
“it is no wonder New Orleans is in a mess. It was before Katrina. It has always been the "Big Easy" actively seeking to be symbolized by drunken revelers careening down the streets in outlandish costumes arm in arm with mostly naked women. (Wasn't Mardi Gras the first thing that came to mind when you thought about New Orleans before Katrina?)”
That is an unfortunate and very inaccurate perception of this city.
“Hospitals and medical facilities are having trouble recruiting skilled professionsls.” (sic)
I’m a nurse. I moved here from Seattle and the hospital where I work now had no trouble recruiting me.
“would you choose to put the plant in New Orleans over a place like North Carolina which is business-friendly and has a fair court system?”
You’ve made some serious allegations against this city. Would you care to back them up with some references?
New Orleans has problems, there is no denying that, but there are a myriad of reasons for our problems, very few of which are due to a lack of morality or motivation.
I first moved to New Orleans in 2000 and lived here for a year at that time. I fell in love with this city – and not for the clichés that I hear from people who have a peripheral awareness of this city; “the food, the music.” I fell in love with New Orleans because of its people, people whom I found to be sincere, hard working, gregarious, and largely Christian in the truest sense of the word.
Katrina broke my heart. When it came time for me to chose a school to complete my masters, I had no hesitation in deciding to return to post-Katrina New Orleans.
As for the murder and crime rate, I watch the crime reports. Most of the crimes seem to occur between the hours of 11 PM and 5 AM – geez, I wonder why.
Yes, New Orleans has a drug problem – Seattle has a drug problem. If the city in which you live doesn’t have a drug problem, it will soon.
The education system in New Orleans stinks. People (read: poor people) who manage to graduate from New Orleans public schools are poorly prepared for the work force. That, my friend, is by design – to keep a continuous supply of unskilled laborers.
You can think what you want about this city, but some of love New Orleans and consider it home.
Some of us are doing what we can to help make it better.
www.no-hunger.org
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 30, 2007 6:43 PM
Those wishing to lay the blame on GW Bush would do well to look at the state of the LA governor's race, which the current governor Blanco is not participating in due to her mismanagement of things post-Katrina.
As for solutions to poverty...I'm in complete agreement with Mr. Taylor about the need to discuss this. As long as we begin by acknowledging a few uncomfortable realities and the limits of the government in addressing them. Those realities being the fact that 1) most children are born out of wedlock in New Orleans; 2) the education system there is fundamentally corrupt and in need of reform; and 3) the city suffers from decades of horrible leadership. How does the federal government help those NOLA residents, given these realities? I've never read any effective anti-poverty policies proposed here. What are your ideas?
I would also like to hear some of Mr. Taylor's solutions to the horrible crime rates that he bemoans.
Posted by: jesse | August 30, 2007 6:47 PM
"most children are born out of wedlock in New Orleans"
Cite your source
"billions poured into that area and the credit cards that were used to buy luxuries, not necessities, and the horrific crimes that the people committed, who could expect any good results?"
Billions, credit cards, horrific crimes? Who are you talking about? Be specific.
What is this? New Orleans got what it deserves? Is that what Abraham would have said? Genesis 18:25-32
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 30, 2007 6:53 PM
I would also like to join neuronurse in professing my admiration for NOLA (which also happens to be my birthplace). Despite its problems, I still think it's a great place, and I'd probably move back there if I had the chance. I love that city.
Posted by: jesse | August 30, 2007 6:53 PM
"most children are born out of wedlock in New Orleans"
Cite your source-neuronurse
--well, since they're not letting us post url's anymore in the comments, i'll just tell you to google "out of wedlock births new orleans". you'll find sources saying approximately 60%. do let me know if you find another figure.
Posted by: | August 30, 2007 7:08 PM
Bush and the feds are far from innocent in this, however it seems that the media and those who post blog entries on this site like to ignore the blame and responsibility that should be on the local and state authorities.
I think that the final straw for most people in this country came in May 2006 when the people of New Orleans reelected Nagin. At that point, I think that most Americans simply turned their backs on the whole thing. Its a sad situation, but until the "culture of corruption" (to borrow a phrase from the Democrats) is changed, you will not have a massive upswelling of public support for rebuilding.
Posted by: MadHatter07 | August 30, 2007 7:27 PM
N.M. Rod,
"It's not success to be so poor at management that you are forced to outsource."
Amen brother.
My father-in-law, who worked his entire career in the federal government, had contempt for government. So of course, he approved of the Republican plan to destroy government by ineptitude. I don't think he realized that the purpose for destroying government was so that this administration could enrich it's friends.
Posted by: Nuttshell | August 30, 2007 7:37 PM
Neuro nurse
God Bless you for all that you do and defending the poor. Thanks for working in a profession that makes a difference everyday.
Hang in there and thanks for what you do!
Speak out for those who cannot speak, for the rights of all the destitute. Speak out, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.
- Proverbs 31:8-9
Maria
Posted by: Maria | August 30, 2007 7:38 PM
Considering the billions of dollars targeted to help Katrina victims get some relief for their losses, why is that the number of people who've been helped has only been in the hundreds? Isn't that federal money? How is the local or state government responsible for that?
Posted by: Nuttshell | August 30, 2007 7:52 PM
"google "out of wedlock births new orleans". you'll find sources saying approximately 60%"
Doing as you suggested I found an article in the National Review that cited that figure, but the author did not cite the source. I found several other politically conservative pages that cited that number, but no reference as to where it came from.
Looking at the 2000 census data, it appears to me that there may be a small majority in the number of household headed by a female, no husband, own children (20,626) to households of married couples with own children (17,056), but I do not understand the difference between family households with own children (39,407) and the other two categories.
Try pasting the URL without http://
factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?-geo_id=16000US2255000&-qr_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_DP1&-ds_name=ACS_2004_EST_G00_
“Men at ease have contempt for misfortune as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.” Job 12:5
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 30, 2007 8:04 PM
"google "out of wedlock births new orleans". you'll find sources saying approximately 60%"
Doing as you suggested I found an article in the National Review that cited that figure, but the author did not cite the source. I found several other politically conservative pages that cited that number, but no reference as to where it came from.
Looking at the 2000 census data, it appears to me that there may be a small majority in the number of household headed by a female, no husband, own children (20,626) to households of married couples with own children (17,056), but I do not understand the difference between family households with own children (39,407) and the other two categories.
“Men at ease have contempt for misfortune as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.” Job 12:5
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 30, 2007 8:04 PM
I found this information (Institute of Southern Studies) on the rebuilding in the Gulf Coast.
"only $35 billion has been appropriated for long-term rebuilding.
Even worse, less than 42 percent of the money set aside has even been spent, much less gotten to those most in need. For example:
* Washington set aside $16.7 billion for Community Development Block Grants, one of the two biggest sources of rebuilding funds, especially for housing. But as of March 2007, only $1 billion -- just 6 percent -- had been spent, almost all of it in Mississippi. Following bad publicity, HUD spent another $3.8 billion on the program between March and July, leaving 70 percent of the funds still unused.
* The other major source of rebuilding help was supposed to be FEMA's Public Assistance Program. But of the $8.2 billion earmarked, only $3.4 billion was meant for nonemergency projects like fixing up schools and hospitals.
* Louisiana officials recently testified that FEMA has also "low-balled" project costs, underestimating the true expenses by a factor of four or five. For example, for 11 Louisiana rebuilding projects, the lowest bids came to $5.5 million -- but FEMA approved only $1.9 million.
* After the failure of federal levees flooded 80 percent of New Orleans, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers received $8.4 billion to restore storm defenses. But as of July 2007, less than 20 percent of the funds have been spent, even as the Corps admits that levee repair won't be completed until as late as 2011.
Posted by: Nuttshell | August 30, 2007 8:18 PM
neuronurse,
If you use the same search parameters and add "Evan Bayh" (the Democratic senator), you'll find he gives another relevant statistic:
"New Orleans recorded 96% of mothers under 20 were unmarried - the second highest rate in the country."
Does the 60% number really seem inflated? We know NOLA is predominately black and the black illegitimacy rate is a bit less than 70%. It's simple extrapolation. If you examine the data further, I'm sure you'd find that, among those living in poverty in New Orleans, fatherlessness is the rule.
Mind you, I'm not saying nothing can or should be done to help the poor in NOLA. I'm just saying it's also necessary to have a perspective that is more realistic than Mr. Taylor's naive "shame on us" view.
Posted by: jesse | August 30, 2007 10:37 PM
Posted by: AV Brown | August 30, 2007 6:34 PM
Well stated - I understand your sediment. When people from all over the nation and the world I might say contributed to that they could purchase supplies that they need for daily life - and they are buying TVs, CD Players, etc.
I am more discusted that NO is being allowed to rebuild and not allowing for the idea that this will happen again. When the Red River in my state flooded and caused unbelieveable damage. Many that had houses with in blocks of the river were not allowed to rebuild there. They were assisted in relocating to other areas so that they could plan for another flood and be better prepared for it in the future. Our Gov. and the Gov of North Dakota worked with FEMA and they were able to get the assistance needed from them. What is wrong with the Gov of LA and the Mayor of NO? I believe they just want everyone else to do and pay for the work that is needed to be done. My little church has sent a group every year down there to help - but you almost have to plant a stake to see that there is movement.
I sorry - I hold the Gov of LA and the Mayor more responsible for the lack of progress than anyone else, shame on them for the lack of progress.
We are sending another team again this year - they will be going to Mississippi instead of LA.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | August 31, 2007 8:46 AM
"I understand your sediment."
I can't resist, Moderatelad. Usually I ignore your typos, but this one strikes me as very funny. I am a geology professor, and all I can say is I wish my students could understand sediment, but so often their exams tell me otherwise =).
Blessings
Posted by: squeaky | August 31, 2007 10:21 AM
"I understand your sediment."
Perhaps Moderatelad has a cold.
Posted by: | August 31, 2007 10:49 AM
Neuronurse, I was hoping you would weigh in.
You reference www.no-hunger.org. Would you recommend giving $$$ to Second Harvest ahead of other charitable organizations?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: carl copas | August 31, 2007 11:59 AM
This article is a good reminder of the need that still exists in New Orleans and communities all around the country. You don't need to go to New Orleans to help those in need. My church continues to send teams down to New Orleans to help out, but there is so much that needs to be done.
I think Adam makes an error though in quoting Jesus ("Just as you did to the least of these, you also did unto me") and linking that to
"good and effective government". He seems to be implying that if our government doesn't take care of people well then it would be as if we, collectively, are mistreating Jesus or it is a slight against him. Jesus was speaking about our actions as individuals, not societies or governments. I don't believe that I'll be held accountable for the government under which I live when I'm called to account for my actions during my earthly life. Does anyone disagree?
Posted by: Eric | August 31, 2007 12:20 PM
carl copas,
There are plenty of organizations that are working to rebuild New Orleans. I give to Second Harvest because I see the suffering of the people of this city in both my 'real' job (where people without insurance are turned away) and my volunteer work. How people give is a personal decision. N.O. Second Harvest is one I pulled up because I have it bookmarked on my browser and it is specific to New Orleans.
Listen, there is no denying New Orleans has its problems. I’ve read some heartbreaking studies on women in poorer communities in New Orleans and their perceived lack of control over their own sexuality and fertility. Rather than pass judgment (after all, I am just as much of a sinner as anyone else), my heart goes out to them.
I continue to battle with my own addictions. I am not ashamed of them because my experiences with addiction make me a better nurse. I can relate to patients with addictions in a way many other nurses cannot. My heart goes out to them.
Let’s remember why New Orleans is here and why it’s important. This city is at the end of the Mississippi River, which has been and continues to be one of the most important commercial waterways in the U.S. Ships that travel upriver to Memphis, St. Louis, and Minneapolis (hello kevin) pass through New Orleans first. New Orleans is an important part of the economy of this country.
The problems with the marshes and eroding coastline are directly related to the maintenance of the shipping lanes on the river. The levees speed the flow of the river, and the river is dredged continuously to remove the sentiment (sorry moderatelad) that would otherwise be deposited and keep the marshes and coastline healthy.
Yes, putting a city in the swamp was a stupid idea, but here we are, and the rest of the country cannot disregard this city out of convenience, lack of concern, or a sense of moral superiority.
As for the comments about Mardi gras and all of its debauchery: For the most part, that’s Bourbon Street (which God, in His infinite mercy, spared during Katrina). The tourists and college students go down to the Quarter during Carnival, and many of them are arrested for doing really stupid things.
The rest of this city spends Mardi gras with their families. People put up tents and barbeque on the neutral ground on St. Charles Avenue, parents put seats on top of ladders so their children can sit up high and catch bead, stuffed animals, and toys thrown from the floats during the parades. People have a few beers, but drunkenness is generally frowned upon.
Let’s not forget what Mardi gras is, the day before Ash Wednesday. New Orleans is predominantly Catholic. Ash Wednesday is the beginning of Lent, which we observe as a period of pray, fasting, and alms-giving. At midnight on Mardi gras the party is over. If you want to find a seat in a Catholic Church on Ash Wednesday in New Orleans, come early.
Please don’t make excuses to justify the suffering of people in New Orleans. I volunteer in the Lower 9th Ward and out in Meraux. There are whole neighborhoods that were completely destroy – people’s homes – gone, nothing left but a slab of concrete. Those people didn’t deserve what happened. My heart, my time, and my tithe go out to them.
“Men at ease have contempt for misfortune as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.” Job 12:5
“So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!” 1 Corinthians 10:12
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 31, 2007 12:57 PM
Moderatelad,
Of course you're going to put most of the blame on the local officials because Heaven forbid that you Righties ever criticize your flawed leader when you can blame Democrats. What about George Bush's promise to help NO? Why are his promises always empty promises? The people who live down there spend countless hours on phones or in lines hoping to get their claims taken care of but very little happens. The insurance companies are being given a pass in order not to pay people. It's criminal. If I pay into my insurance carrier for years, and then they decide they won't pay, that's criminal and immoral.
Posted by: Nuttshell | August 31, 2007 2:28 PM
"What about George Bush's promise to help NO? Why are his promises always empty promises?"
--Do you know how much money the federal government has given NOLA?
Posted by: jesse | August 31, 2007 3:12 PM
Posted by: Nuttshell | August 31, 2007 2:28 PM
You will notice - I did not identify the political party. I hold political officials closer to the issue more accountable. When the 500+ year flood hit the Red River - the Gov of MN was working like crazy on behalf of the citizens of MN. You saw it on the 'national' news all that was being done. The Gov of LA and the Mayor of NO seem to be great at the sound bite - pointing an accusing finger at others when it is their job.
BTW - it only took 36+ hours for the Dems in DC to blame GWB for the I35 bridge falling in the Mississippi here in MN. I was expecting 24+ hours - little slow this time.
Have a great weekend -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | August 31, 2007 3:41 PM
Posted by: squeaky | August 31, 2007 10:21 AM
I can't resist, Moderatelad. Usually I ignore your typos, but this one strikes me as very funny.
I'm glad you didn't!
What can I say -
I have a face for radio
I spell like I talk
I wear my heart on my sleeve
Rock On Professor - have a great weekend!
.
Posted by: | August 31, 2007 3:46 PM
Posted by: jesse | August 31, 2007 3:12 PM
jesse - they don't want to know. As long as they can blame anything and everything on GWB or conservatives - their lives are good.
LA over the past few decades has been given mega bucks to shore up the levy's etc. They diverted it to 'other' programs that were to produce monies to make the levy's safer - it didn't work.
Here we are - two years past the big "K" and they are replacing the levy's with ones that will handle the same type of storm - not bigger ones - you figure. If nothing changes - we will be bailing NO out again in the near future.
Have a great weekend!
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | August 31, 2007 4:06 PM
Eric asks whether anyone disagrees with his statement: "I don't believe that I'll be held accountable for the government under which I live when I'm called to account for my actions during my earthly life."
I disagree. God has not called us to live for our selves alone. This is YOUR government, making decisions in YOUR name. Isn't that the essential difference between living in a democracy and living in a dictatorship? Living in a democracy means that we have the right to elect people to run our governments at all levels, and to hold them accountable for the decisions they make on our behalf.
Do you do your part by voting in every election? Are you challenging the elected people, writing to them, calling your Senators, Representatives, holding them accountable for the decisions they are making, actions they are taking on your behalf and in your name?
Posted by: bren | August 31, 2007 5:08 PM
Tonnage for Selected U.S. Ports in 2001
Sorted by Port Tons
Rank Port Name
1 South Louisiana, LA, Port of (includes New Orleans)
2 Houston, TX
3 New York, NY and NJ
4 New Orleans, LA
www.iwr.usace.army.mil/ndc/wcsc/portton01.htm
Posted by: neuro_nurse | August 31, 2007 5:16 PM
"This is YOUR government, making decisions in YOUR name."
Our government allows the murder of unborn children. I vociferously oppose this fact, but I am confident that I am not personally not held responsible for the actions of those who do not.
"I have a face for radio
I spell like I talk
I wear my heart on my sleeve
Rock On Professor - have a great weekend!"
I still like you. Let's grab a beer at Blondies some time.
Posted by: kevin s. | August 31, 2007 6:01 PM
Call for Prayer
Please pray for the soul of Sheriff Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish (across the Mississippi River from Downtown New Orleans), who is undergoing treatment for Leukemia. I ask for this because I imagine that it is needed prayer. Harry made his name by racial profiling for many years -- no need for details; I come from Jefferson Parish but moved north of Lake Pontchartrain about 12 years pre-storm, so I know what I'm talking about -- and I'm White. Harry is the sheriff who refused to allow New Orleanians (this particular group of whom are Black citizens) to take shelter out of the flooded downtown area, away from the Superdome, as the Black New Orleanians walked across the Mississippi River bridge into the part of Jefferson Parish called Gretna. His officers turned back men, women and children, by force of arms, and demanded that they walk back across the bridge to the New Orleans side of the Mississippi River. He gave them no food, water, clothing, blankets, medicine, baby care items such as formula or diapers. He just didn't want those persons in his parish of Jefferson because they came from the New Orleans side of the river. As tired as they were, he did not even give these "sojourners" a ride across the very long bridge in his patrol cars. They had to walk.
Now, Harry has undergone one unsuccessful treatment for leukemia, and is currently seeking "transplant," per local news. Surely, that means a bone marrow transplant. I would not wish my worst enemy to go thru the suffering of leukemia -- I hate that disease and Alzheimer's more than any other affliction of the human body. Nobody "deserves" such a terrible fate. But as he lies in his bed, wishing tht he will receive the blessings of compassion and mercy in his situation, I hope that God places firmly before his eyes the faces of each and every person he had forced to return to the flood of New Orleans, when he denied them access to the dry land of Jefferson Parish.
Please pray for his soul. Thank you.
Posted by: Jackie Booth | August 31, 2007 6:11 PM
I know that Kevin and others are preoccupied with the issue of abortion but perhaps he and these others are concerned about other issues as well. Defending the Constitution, for example. In which case, I urge you to check out the American Freedom Campaign's work to get those running for presidential candidacy to commit to defending the Constitution. (Checks and balances: remember those from before the current administration?)
Posted by: bren | August 31, 2007 8:34 PM
I will pray for him.
p
Posted by: Payshun | August 31, 2007 9:10 PM
"Defending the Constitution."
People seem to have differing views of what that means, but I get both ACLU and Family Action/Citizen materials that both commit that THEIR side is the one dedicated to defending the Constitution.
You know, there's no legal contract, treaty or law written that has any weight if the character and intent of the persons signing it can't really be trusted.
In business, it's the worst idea possible to sign a binding agreement with a party you know you probably can't trust.
Laws, treaties and agreements are powerful and enforceable only when all the parties already largely agree.
People's HEARTS are going to have to be changed to get behavior changes; no law is going to produce that, only fights about conflicting interpretations.
Especially in a society in which people are governed by consent (or supposed to be) unpopular laws might be able to be enacted, but they cannot be enforced and lead to contempt for the law in general.
Unfortunately, the Christian faction in power is highly legalistic in its approach. This is as effective as a scolding well-dressed Pharisee storming down the street angrily pointing fingers and hurling threats at all the people he encounters who don't meet with his approval.
The exhortation that "we can change laws faster than we can change hearts" is an admission of failure and a resort further within that failure to lose our tempers and try to impose our own standards (which I notice we have a lot of trouble with, too) on others by means of raw power and force.
Posted by: N.M. Rod | August 31, 2007 9:22 PM
I think it is sad that you are praying. Prayer to a deity that does not exist will do nothing for people suffering in New Orleans and other areas devastated by natural disasters and the Bush regime's policies in the aftermaths.
Prayer is no substitute for action.
Posted by: libhomo | August 31, 2007 10:04 PM
libhomo:
Prayer is no substitute for action.
Me:
Only for the faithless. Extending love and grace into the Universe and in this case mercy and forgiveness for a racist fool is a sign of the divine. Loving your enemy is Jesus. It is no less important than feeding the poor or protecting the week. they are equal because that's what love does.
p
Posted by: Payshun | August 31, 2007 10:14 PM
"Prayer to a deity that does not exist will do nothing for people suffering in New Orleans"
That's why I pray to one that does ;)...
"Prayer is no substitute for action."
Prayer is action, but yes our faith is demonstrated through our work.
Posted by: kevin s. | September 1, 2007 12:05 AM
"I know that Kevin and others are preoccupied with the issue of abortion but perhaps he and these others are concerned about other issues as well. Defending the Constitution, for example"
I brought up abortion because (as I recall) it's an issue on which we disagree, not because I am pre-occupied with it. Incidentally, is it pre-occupation simply to even bring it up? That's a nice little bludgeon the Christian lefties have at their disposal isn't it?
To your point, I see abortion as symptomatic of the breakdown of the systems of checks and balances, and I think abortion could potentially be the tip of the iceberg if we begin to pretend that our judges should be in the business of making law.
Obviously the American Constitutional whatever (do you work for them, btw? That was a rather awkward segue...) disagrees with me on this. I suspect they have a different set of ideological leanings. Are they just another Soros front group?
Posted by: kevin s. | September 1, 2007 1:16 AM
Kevin, I neither know, nor care, what the paternity is of the American Freedom Campaign. What I do know is that the purpose is to have those who wish to run for President commit to the Constitution. This means that they are committing to the rule of law, and that no one, not even the Executive Branch, is above the law.
Given the to-do we had for several days on God's Politics about illegal immigrants with so many on the blog insisting that everyone has to obey the law, I actually thought that a commitment to the rule of law would be something we could all agree on here and that many bloggers would want to support this action. And that's why I brought it to readers' attention.
Posted by: bren | September 1, 2007 3:07 AM
I hope everyone here understands that there was plenty of blame to go around at all levels of goverenment, and to single out Nagin & Blanco is pretty unfair. Google "Criticism of government response to Hurricane Katrina" and you'll get the digest version of it on Wikipedia. That will link you over to a document by the US House titled "Select Bipartisan Committee to
Investigate the Preparation for and
Response to Hurricane Katrina." Looks like good reading.
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 1, 2007 5:45 AM
"Kevin, I neither know, nor care, what the paternity is of the American Freedom Campaign."
You should. It will tell you a lot about their motives. Wes Boyd (I was right about Soros) and David Fenton are the founders of this group. That tells me they have an agenda that goes beyond simply "protecting the constitution".
If we are held responsible by God for our political actions, it pays to know who is sponsoring them, eh?
Posted by: kevin s. | September 1, 2007 12:31 PM
Posted by: kevin s. | August 31, 2007 6:01 PM
I get off of work at 3:30 pm most days - anytime
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | September 1, 2007 11:34 PM
Kevin Wayne,
Living in New Orleans I have heard many criticisms about the actions of specific people at all levels of government. I have either rarely or never heard reference made to the party affiliation of those individuals who are being criticized.
I heard a comment on the radio a few days ago that the charges of corruption in Louisiana politics are, in the first place, inaccurate in the sense that Louisiana politicians are no more corrupt than politicians from any other state, and in the second place, have become and excuse for inaction with regards to aid in repairing the damage caused by Katrina.
People are suffering – people who are not the victim of their own lack or morality or ‘God’s vengeance,’ but victims of a severe natural disaster. It seems to me that it’s very difficult to lend a hand to people in need while one is busy using his hands to point fingers at those who may be at fault.
Get over it!
Seek peace and pursue it.
P.S. kevin s. & Payshun, why do you entertain trolls like libhomo? You guys are smarter than that!
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 2, 2007 11:41 AM
Neuro,
The reason why I do not ignore trolls like Libhomo is because his view deserves respect. I don't agree w/ it, but then again I don't agree w/ the conservates on this board and most of the democrats make me laugh. If I just ignored everyone I did not agree w/ then I would be wasting my time. It's only one comment. If it becomes something more then I will cut it out.
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 2, 2007 8:18 PM
fair enough.
Peace!
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 2, 2007 9:33 PM
Here's two more websites that go some distance to counter a lot of the blame that was placed on Gov. Blanco, let's hope the links go through:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301480.html
http://www.snopes.com/katrina/politics/blanco.asp
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 2, 2007 11:23 PM
Kevin Wayne,
I apologize for any offense I gave. Although addressed to you, my comments were, for the most part, intended for the larger milieu of people posting on this thread.
As for as the relevance of my comments, they have been in response to a number a criticisms about this city and its people.
I’ve had enough of hearing about who’s to blame for Katrina and the lack of progress being made in rebuilding the region.
On a positive note, I have seen many church groups from outside of Louisiana coming here to volunteer their time and energy.
I applaud them for being part of the solution.
Peace!
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 3, 2007 12:35 PM
Neuro: Thanks for the clarification.
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 3, 2007 1:11 PM
"P.S. kevin s. & Payshun, why do you entertain trolls like libhomo? You guys are smarter than that!"
Oh, I didn't see their name. I think the question of whether we should be praying when we could be "acting" speaks to a common misconception that is worth addressing.
Our national reaction to this tragedy was bizarre. That somehow this hurricane became a referendum on Bush's abilities as President within hours of the flooding was unhelpful at best.
The failure to adequately respond was widespread, but this suddenly turned into a story of how conservatives do not care about the poor. Jim Wallis gobbled up this talking point almost immediately.
Ray Nagin left busses sitting in a parking lot that could have aided the evacuation effort. Did he do so because he does not care about the poor? No.
The media breathlessly reported apocryphal information without pausing to consider its accuracy. Did that help? No.
Aaron Broussard just generally !@#%$%^ up everything in every possible way. Was it because he didn't care about the poor? No.
Katrina has nothing to to with our national attitude toward the poor. Even though it was one of the poorer areas, it has never been regarded as such. When we discuss the lessons of Katrina, or a bridge collapse, or any other disaster, we should be discussing how to improve our infrastructure to prevent future disaters from occurring on this magnitude.
If we are not asking those questions, then we are reclaiming any missed opportunities.
Posted by: kevin s. | September 3, 2007 2:02 PM
I think it is ridiculous to spend any amount of money rebuilding NOLA where it is at. As many scientists pointed out around Katrina time...it is an awful idea to put a city in that place. We need to have more respect for the power of nature, and be more responsible in where we build and habitate. Just because it has some history and culture doesn't mean we should foot the bill to rebuild a city in a waterlogged delta.
Posted by: wildrule | September 3, 2007 3:24 PM
kevin s.
My calling libhomo a troll was based on her/his posting a statement that there is no God on a Christian website, which was nothing more than an inflammatory attack without the courage to reply to yours and Payshun’s responses.
I know from previous threads that your church has sent teams down here to help with the clean-up. My offer for coffee stands when you get down here.
“The media breathlessly reported apocryphal information without pausing to consider its accuracy. Did that help? No.”
As I wrote on another thread, I have next to no faith in or trust of the media. The media tend to focus our attention on details or minutia of an issue without considering the “Big Picture,” thus, people can dismiss New Orleans as morally bankrupt based on what they have seen from one comparatively small part of the city on one particular day of the year.
“I think it is ridiculous to spend any amount of money rebuilding NOLA where it is at.” wildrule,
What would you recommend?
As I outlined above, New Orleans is one of the most important port cities in the U.S. The levees and other systems to contain the Mississippi River are in large part to maintain the shipping lanes. Many of the people who live in the “flood prone areas” of New Orleans are those who work in the Port of New Orleans.
Contrary to popular belief, the entire city of New Orleans is not below the level of the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain. I live in an area of New Orleans that is above the flood plain – but that’s because I am paid well enough to be able to afford to live here.
In 2004 the Port of New Orleans ranked 7th in the U.S. in tonnage. The Port of Southern Louisiana, which includes the Port of New Orleans, is the largest port in the U.S. In comparison, the port of Kevin & moderatelad’s home, Minneapolis, ranked 140th.
Do you think it is more feasible to move New Orleans or abandon it? If New Orleans can be sacrificed for convenience, then why not the entire Port of Southern Louisiana?
Bienville established New Orleans in 1718 and, as a resident of New Orleans, I can tell you that putting a city in the swamp wasn’t the smartest idea, but then I’ve also lived in Memphis, which sits on top of the New Madrid fault, Seattle, which not only sits on a major fault, it lies in the shadow of a dormant volcano. Speaking of volcanoes, what about Naples? Didn’t the Italians learn anything from Pompeii?
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 3, 2007 4:22 PM
Neuro,
much thanks for info on NO as a port city. It's a side of the city that many of us overlook.
Now that I think about it, it's impossible to imagine a city not being located in the vicinity of the mouth of the Mississippi River.
I live some hours away from San Fran/Oakland metro area. People from other parts of the USA often don't understand how economically important the region is as a shipping port. Likewise Seattle, which American treaty negotiators made sure was included on the U.S. side when negotiating the 1846 treaty with Britain that established the boundary in the Northwest between Canada and US.
Posted by: carl copas | September 3, 2007 4:41 PM
DHFABIAN said
Please hop off that old "unwed mother" bandwagon, and throw away all those scarlet letters. We Americans love to crow about our compassion and moral values, but turn our backs on the poor---and all the better if we can slap a label on them, establishing their inferiority!
Me
Their inferiority ? When corporations are promoting their selfishness ,are you are promoting your superiority ? Unwed Mothers causes poverty , selfish corporations also . Both have to do with the word selfish .
We can't control certain things in our life , poverty caused by children out of wedlock , not finishing our Basic Education , and learning to value the importance of the covenant in marriage are certain things the church can all agree on . Obviously your a non believer of the basic Bibical principles that we share with our youth in hopes they have a
better life ?
From my past , I can say for sure a couple of those things sure hurt myself and especially my children . That is not moral superiority , that is experience . Promoting Marriage , committment , morality is no proof I lived that life , its proof I have come to believe they are the neccessary ingredients of a good life .
Life is more then just a politcal solution , their are some things we need to promote culturally . I am fortunate to find a good church in my 30s and started over .
So I guess according to you a x drug addict speaking to kids keeping drugs out of the reach of youth is reason to ridicule his moral superiority ?
Most likely its too late anyway I guess. As long as the majority do not even see this as a problem , its very clear and obvious to me .
Kids grwoing up in homes where the Father figure is not committed to them , just their Mother , Changing faces , alcohol , drugs , child abuse occurs more often in single parent homes , juvenile crime , hS dropouts , etc etc etc etc etc etc .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | September 3, 2007 5:24 PM
carl copas,
The Port of Seattle ranks 37 in tonnage. Tacoma, to the south of Seattle, ranks 30th, San Francisco 113th, Oakland 45th.
When Mt. Rainier becomes active again, it’s likely that a lahar will flow through the Puyallup River valley into the Port or Tacoma, destroying the towns of Orting and Puyallup and a stretch of Interstate 5 along the way.
When I lived in Memphis I volunteered with the Red Cross and was able to attend a presentation on the New Madrid fault, which threatens Memphis (41st) and St Louis (24th) with major damage from a magnitude 6 or greater earthquake.
Hey, you live in the Bay Area, I’m sure you know more than you’d like to about earthquakes! But at least on the Left Coast the ground is rocky; compared to the soil in the Mississippi Valley, which is alluvial silt that will liquefy in an earthquake – shockwaves will travel through the ground like waves on water and knock buildings over like dominoes.
What were they thinking putting cities and ports in such ridiculous places? Shall we abandon those cities too?
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 3, 2007 6:12 PM
Mick:
Their inferiority ? When corporations are promoting their selfishness ,are you are promoting your superiority ? Unwed Mothers causes poverty , selfish corporations also . Both have to do with the word selfish .
Me:
What you said here is troubling on so many levels. Unwed mothers don't cause poverty. They are victims of it. They may perputate some aspects of it but honestly they do the best they can and they deserve your respect not your stereotypes.
You:
We can't control certain things in our life , poverty caused by children out of wedlock , not finishing our Basic Education , and learning to value the importance of the covenant in marriage are certain things the church can all agree on . Obviously your a non believer of the basic Bibical principles that we share with our youth in hopes they have a better life?
me:
Well this is a very complex subject. Why finish a sub par education? Marriage and valuing it is important and as a Christian I work to support it but I will not advocate single mothers marrying deadbeat and poor men. I just won't do it. It's better for them to be single then to add more drama to their lives. There are other options if the father is not in their lives and no that doesn't include drug dealers. Since you seem really committed to this I can recommend some links in your area for how you can volunteer if you aren't already.
You need to learn more about the lives of people that live in the innercity and about family dynamics. There are a ton of stereotypes w/o much substance in your posts. Just passion w/o wisdom.
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 3, 2007 7:11 PM
Payshun,
Good response.
For those interested in gaining some insight into some of the cultural aspects of single motherhood, some of which Payshun mentioned, I recommend the following article, which I will be more than happy to Email in PDF upon request:
Kendall, C., Afable-Munsuz, A., Speizer, I., Avery, A., Schmidt, N., Santelli, J. (2005). Understanding pregnancy in a population of inner-city women in New Orleans – results of qualitative research. Social Science & Medicine, 60, 297-311.
aeauooo@yahoo.com
Peace!
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 3, 2007 9:52 PM
Payshun,
You're right that in a lot of cases single women and their children are better off unmarried. But that doesn't make marriage less valuable as an institution. Much of the point of upholding marriage as a standard is that sex should be reserved for marriage -- and that in turn both men and women should be prepared for the responsiblities of marriage and child-rearing before they begin sexual activity.
Though chastened, I remain
Wolverine
Posted by: Wolverine | September 4, 2007 10:19 AM
Wolvie
Ah yes the Christian response. I share it. I thank you for your words. But I said the same thing here:
Marriage and valuing it is important and as a Christian I work to support it but I will not advocate single mothers marrying deadbeat and poor men.
As to what defines a marriage which is why I think your post is saying then I don't fully agree w/ it. I think marriage or union happens when two people sleep together and that makes a covenant...
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 4, 2007 11:47 AM
"When Mt. Rainier becomes active again, it’s likely that a lahar will flow through the Puyallup River valley into the Port or Tacoma, destroying the towns of Orting and Puyallup and a stretch of Interstate 5 along the way."
Okay, Jeremiah...
Posted by: kevin s. | September 4, 2007 5:20 PM
"Okay, Jeremiah..." kevin s.
That's just what I've picked up from my disaster preparedness training.
In the words of Frank Zappa, "It can't happen here!"
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 4, 2007 6:59 PM
Neuro Nurse said ,
Good response.
ME
Interested in your reasoning why out of wedlock births does not cause poverty for the child Neuro Nurse. You clapping for a person suggesting that all those who disgaree with your view need more education or are using sterotypes interestingly is how liberals are stereotyped in speaking to issues . They don't deal with the issue , they ridicule the person's perspective and motive .
I suggest to you , having children out of wedlock myself ,and experiencing the hurt , and fiancial issues , I suggest you could learn something from me , send me your email address if you want to learn about the consequences and God miracles .
Or perhaps read about King David , the consequences of his child out of wedlock were a better example . His repentence yet better .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | September 4, 2007 7:05 PM
Mick Sheldon,
In the first place, my agreeing with Payshun was not meant to demean you.
The optimal situation in which to raise a child is with both of her/his parents. I would not suggest otherwise, and I do not believe that Payshun has implied that either. It seems to me that both he and I believe that there are circumstances in which having both parents in the house would be more destructive than beneficial.
I have no doubt that single parenthood more often than not creates a financial hardship for both the parent and child. I don’t believe that Payshun would disagree with that either. Single parenthood is frequently a symptom of poverty, but I do not believe that single parenthood is a cause for what is commonly defined as ‘poverty.’
My beliefs in this matter and others have very little basis in my being a liberal, but they are part of the reason I am a liberal, i.e., being a liberal did not cause me to believe this way, but having these beliefs are part of the reason I am a liberal. The cause and effect that you seem to suggest are reversed.
As for education, you brought it up.
Anecdotes are not evidence. I do not doubt that your experiences are relevant, but I cannot base my practice or my views on social or moral matters on your testimonial.
My profession, my education, my experience, and my heart have shown me that it is extremely difficult to understand the norms and values of cultures different from our own.
I suspect very strongly that your experiences, you culture, are significantly different from those of women in inner-city New Orleans.
I know the phrase “cultural sensitivity” tends to raise a lot of dander, but it is absolutely required of people in my profession. My ministry training taught me to listen and to be a sacrificial presence for those to whom I minister.
For the most part, my values have little meaning to those for whom I care – they shouldn’t, and I shouldn’t expect them to. My job, both professionally and as a minister, it to be present and to show that I care.
I am fortunate that in my profession and education I have access to medical and social sciences library databases and the knowledge of how to use them. It has been my experience that medical and social science tend to support those concepts of social issues that are often labeled ‘liberal.’ Fortunately, Catholics do not believe that science contradicts our faith.
I thank the Lord every day for giving me the opportunities and skills he has to serve him.
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 4, 2007 7:58 PM
"I will remember that the next time I hang w/ a single parent household that was on Section 8 for a year."
I am trying to sell a house that I rented to a Section 8 tenant. She destroyed the house, didn't pay the rent she owed, and is frivolously suing me for twice the amount of the damage deposit.
My realtor says that I got off pretty clean as far as Section 8 goes. She did $4k worth of damage.
Why don't you go hang with her?
The government spends their money on people who waste it. That does not mean that evey entitlement dollar is wasted, but you cannot simply tsk-tsk away the notion that some people do use governmental assistance as an excuse to be neglect basic responsibilities.
Posted by: kevin s. | September 5, 2007 12:34 AM
P
Just wondering , did you believe I meant unwed Mothers cause poverty on the rest of us ?
I was talking to causing poverty in their own worlds . I think I see what happened if that is the case .
And thank you for opening this statement up the way you did . I actually thought you just thought the worse. My ability to communicate is bad . I need to keep it short . I am not educated in sentence structure , Sorry .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | September 5, 2007 1:40 AM
“Liberals never have seemed to think family intactness is important”
Give me a break!
“You mean to promote a belief system that sex should remain in marriage is not considered something as a minister you should convey to another ?”
Oh please, that is not what I suggested at all!
If you really want to know how I see ministry and service to the Lord, see Benedict’s first encyclical, Deus Caritas Est. www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html
Preaching the Gospel is not a panacea for all social ills, at least, that’s not what the Church teaches. I guarantee you that there is no shortage of good Christian people, people much more invested in the poor communities of New Orleans, neighborhoods where I suspect you would not be willing to set foot, spreading the Gospel there. Putting another church in New Orleans or sending down people from outside the community to preach the Gospel isn’t going to help much, if at all.
I’m sure you’ve heard of the “Bible Belt,” are you aware that the “Gonorrhea Belt” directly overlaps the Bible Belt? I don’t have the time to look up the data, but I suspect that you would find higher rates of teen pregnancy and unwed mothers in those states as well. It would be naïve to suggest a causal relationship, but the “interocular test” (right between the eyes) seems to indicate that a high proportion of professing Christians in a region does not have a protective effect against the transmission of gonorrhea (what do you think kev? I'm taking biostatistics and epidemiology this semester)
Perhaps something isn’t working.
Paul told us that we each have our gifts and we should respect the gifts of others. God gave me a set of skills and the passion to use them. If preaching the Gospel isn’t alleviating social problems, and there is scientific evidence to support public health and educational interventions, why would a Christian be opposed to them? ($$$? What was it that Jesus said about serving two masters?)
(BTW, you brought up David’s sin. As I recall it, David was punished not only for having sex out of wedlock, but also for arranging for the murder of Uriah the Hittite, Bathsheba’s husband - I guess he didn't want the child to be born out of wedlock. Some solution! What was David’s punishment? The death of his first child with Bathsheba. Incidentally, it has been postulated that that child died of neonatal tetanus – a vaccine-preventable disease)
As you may know, my career goal is to work in public health in Africa. In general, most Christians I know get it. They understand that I have no intention of going to Africa as a missionary (at least, not as that term is usually understood among Protestants. Again, see Deus Caritas Est) and are very supportive of me, but there are those Christians who look me bewildered when I make my goals known to them, almost as if I had committed blasphemy!
Please allow me to serve God in the way he has directed me.
Payshun,
Of course I love you too. I love Kevin S and Mick just as much.
Seek peace and pursue it.
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 5, 2007 12:37 PM
Kevin said:
Why don't you go hang with her?
The government spends their money on people who waste it. That does not mean that evey entitlement dollar is wasted, but you cannot simply tsk-tsk away the notion that some people do use governmental assistance as an excuse to be neglect basic responsibilities.
Me:
Not everyone the government spends money on wastes it. I know some former drug addicted mothers that are doing just fine. I am sorry about how that woman treated you. Not every one does that. Oh an I would hang out w/ her. But I don't live in Minni.
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 5, 2007 1:11 PM
Dear Payshun and Kevin - Thanks for your response for the call to prayer for a suffering soul, who added to the suffering of other souls during Katrina rather than acting with grace and generosity. As I read this blog, I see that it is becoming a "guilt game." Find the fault and blame him, her or them. Let us focus instead on the power at the disposal of those of us who are Christians -- the power of prayer to God. There is no higher power than God. He can lead us personally to make the right decisions as to what to do, or what not to do, to recover from this didaster, both individually and as a community. The argument that New Orleans shouldn't be located in a dangerous area is an interesting one, but it's a bit late in the day for that -- a few centuries late. With global warming set to flood New York and Washington, and the rest of the East Coast and possibly all of Florida, with earthquake faults running from St. Louis through Memphis, not to mention all of California, with volcanoes in Yellowstone National Park and in the American Northwest, and with terrorist bombers striking Oklahoma City, and forest fires destroying communities in the west and southwest, please identify where cities should be built. Our Hope is in the Lord; our providence is in His hands. Read the lesser prophets of the OT and see how modern they sound. God has used Babylon for millenia to humble the people who considered themselves to be "godly" people. Maybe He is doing so again. This is just a thought to consider.
Dear libhomo,
I do not wish to offend you or insult you ( I have agnostic and athiest friends and associates wand I understand their reasons for their belief-system or non-belief system, whatever it should properly be named) but I must tell you that when I wanted to know about all this God-stuff, in my mind, I asked God if He was real, and if I could trust what was in the Bible (specifically the New Testament, and about Jesus). I was not told by anyone what to believe in; I asked for the truth of God to be revealed to me from God Himself. He answered in my heart that I should believe these things. He did this in a way that I found acceptable and trustworthy. If you feel able to honestly ask an entity that you have no provable reason to beleive in, that is, God, if He is real, and if you have the courage to ask that question honestly and also honestly listen for the answer, I think that God may reveal his existence to you. I'm not gonna get all mushy about that Divine Love stuff, but I want you to know that, whether you believe it or not, and it's your right not to believe it, I know that God really does love you, today, now, exactly who you are and in whatever position in life you find yourself (rich or poor, happy or angry, whatever). You are His, even if He is not chosen by you. And please do not mistake judgments by people who claim to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim or any religion to be the proper expression of the communication available to you with God. Humans are so very imperfect. Thank you for your patience in allowing me to say these things to you, and remember, of course, how imperfect I am, just like all the other humans, so please forgive me if I have offended you in writing you this, but I want you to know that it is hard, very hard for some persons to conceptualize a "belief" in a non-quantifiable entity. But if you choose to risk everything you believe in, and privately ask God to demonstrate to you that He is real, you will receive an honest answer.
But let us all remember, political or not, religious or not, angry or not, we are all in this world together, and the more we work at getting along cooperatively and respectfully with one another, the better this world will become, little by little, person by person, place by place. And Christians, let us commit to prayer, for each other, for national leaders, for all the afflicted of the world, for all who feel so alone and frightened, for all who choose violence over attempts to reach peaceful solutions to our difficulties, and in short, to bring about the outworking of God's Will, whatever it may be, in this sorry, sad, sick world. And let us also pray for mercy for us all. Thank you all brothers and sisters for listening to me, and check out the books of Amos and Habakkuk when you have time, ok? They tell what God wants from a government. Blessings,
Jackie
Posted by: Jackie | September 5, 2007 2:58 PM
Neuro
I guarantee you that there is no shortage of good Christian people, people much more invested in the poor communities of New Orleans, neighborhoods where I suspect you would not be willing to set foot, spreading the Gospel there. Putting another church in New Orleans or sending down people from outside the community to preach the Gospel isn’t going to help much, if at all.
-----------------------------------------------
It is not our responsibility for others to accept the Gospel . But we were told to share it . Then move on if not accepted at that house . Your right about me going to New Orleans , unless the Lord told me its not on my plate . But when Katrina hit, one of my contributions went to the Salvation Army , I wanted Christ to get the glory for helping the people in need . Showing people His hands were helping , and Praying it would allow them to know His Love in other ways . The church I belong to believes in Mission work , Assembly of God, their philospy would be to Evangelize New Orleans , help with "science " medical care etc , and train the citizens of New Oleans to be Providers of the Gospel , not having outsiders do it . I figure that is where the catholic Missionaries went wrong , they came here and saw different cultures as demonic , actually they were just different . Nothing wrong with being different , and respecting that .
Christ needs to be involved from my point of view or the House you are building has no foundation .
I read some of the link , you are dedicated to loving people through health care . That is great ! You are right though we have different ways , I don't understand why you do not feel having Christ be given the Glory is important . But as you say , that is your style . But their are very compassionate Pagans , Muslims , etc who offer help also . My understanding of the Gospel teaches me that making it known the help we give is given to the Glory of God , not to man . I am sorry , but I believe you are robbing the people you help from th knowledge of the love and dedication Christ has instilled into your heart . Its like your a beautiful painting , and you are refusing to share the artist who painted you .
P.S
STDs in the Bible belt is not the fault of the Gospel being preached , its the proof of the human condition and the need of it to be known , especially to those who have contracted diseases . . I suggest to you that level of infections would be worse without Christ in the lives of people .
I am a hippocrit too . But Knowing the Lord has allowed me to know it .
Posted by: | September 5, 2007 3:03 PM
"I figure that is where the catholic Missionaries went wrong , they came here and saw different cultures as demonic , actually they were just different ."
That may have been true hundreds of years ago, and I seriously doubt Protestants missionaries had a better track record. I encourage you to look up what the Church teaches about non-Christian religions in the Catechism: www.usccb.org
"I don't understand why you do not feel having Christ be given the Glory is important ."
God is glorified through my doing the work he called me to. Pardon me for not making that clear – I thought it went without saying.
“I believe you are robbing the people you help from th knowledge of the love and dedication Christ has instilled into your heart .”
I know Deus Caritas Est is long, but within it there is a section of Catholic charity which, as I understand it, tells us to allow our love for people to be our testimony to our Lord. Catholics are to engage in charity without proselytizing.
Yes, Catholics accept the “Great Commission,” but our understanding of how to make disciples is a bit different from yours – it’s one of the reasons I am a Catholic, one of the reasons I am a nurse, and one of the reasons I have chosen (or God chose me) to work in Africa.
"STDs in the Bible belt is not the fault of the Gospel being preached"
No, and I did not suggest that. I said, “It would be naïve to suggest a causal relationship.” Apparently, preaching the Gospel isn’t having much effect on the transmission of gonorrhea. Why then would it have a significant effect on sex outside of wedlock?
To be very frank Mick, you are jumping to conclusions that are not implicit in the things that I have written and coming off as entirely too judgmental.
Please trust that the Holy Spirit is working through me, even if you can’t see it through your own prejudice.
Posted by: neuro_nurse | September 5, 2007 5:27 PM
Mick asked:
Just wondering , did you believe I meant unwed Mothers cause poverty on the rest of us ?
Me:
Yep that's what I thought you were asking.
You:
I was talking to causing poverty in their own worlds . I think I see what happened if that is the case .
Me:
That's where I disagree. I think it is a lot more complicated than that. I have had the pleasure of meeting a few unwed mothers and some of those I met were born into a situation that had been decades and in the case of one nearly a century long ordeal that had nothing to do w/ her choices. She perpuated the cycle but she definitely did not start it.
You:
And thank you for opening this statement up the way you did . I actually thought you just thought the worse. My ability to communicate is bad . I need to keep it short . I am not educated in sentence structure , Sorry .
Me:
See silly, if you just asked questions you would not have to be so defensive all the time.
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 5, 2007 6:41 PM
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