How telling, you progressives do not want the Churches made illegal for promoting and housing criminal immigrants, but you are completely supportive of outlawing Christians and Christian Churches through the ENDA Bill. I can see both of your faces Jim.
Posted by: Donny | November 15, 2007 9:48 AM
The racism in this country continues to grow. Although I was not around at the time of Hitler's Nazism, I have read enough to know that there were quite a few "Christians" who tolerated, and in some cases, even helped round up Jews for the Nazis. The way some are demonizing the Latino immigrants reminds me of what happened in Nazi Germany. Do we never learn?
Posted by: conchita | November 15, 2007 11:39 AM
Donny,
I'm very curious how you see ENDA as outlawing Christians and Christian churches? I may not be a big fan of the bill, but I think it's a far cry from outlawing Christianity or Christian churches. Could you please clarify what you mean by that?
In His Love,
Dan
Posted by: Dan Barber | November 15, 2007 11:47 AM
All I have ever wanted was to enforce the laws on immigration that we have on the books. I remember back in the Carter years Mondale was in MN having a casual talk with people and supporters. The question of immigration was brought up and in a nut shell. Those that wanted to see immigration controled and laws enforced - even back then he labeled us as 'bigots'. Of course - the 'Star-Trib' forgot to report that one.
Yes - they are here - they need to apply and be screened and then if accepted - they can apply for citizenship. If they are rejected - they need to be sent back, they should be allowed to take their family with them so that we do not seperate them.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | November 15, 2007 12:01 PM
Somehow I have a feeling that 99.9% of those demonizing immigrants are
white and English-speaking, and, although not 99%, overwhelmingly male.
This isn't to say at all that white English-speaking males are per se holding these views. But, experience over a wide variety of acquaintances makes it clear that this is the group that you mostly find espousing these views.
I am sure they have their reasons, but this is the group that produces most of those who feel this way.
SO it does appear we are dealing with the same ethnic resentment/conflict phenomenon that appears and then fuels problems in the rest of the world.
Shouldn't be a surprise since the same DNA flows in American veins that flows everywhere else in the world.
When things go wrong scapegoats have to be found so that the mass of people don't turn on those who've made the mess they now have to suffer for.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 16, 2007 1:29 AM
Somehow I have a feeling that 99.9% of those demonizing immigrants are
white and English-speaking, and, although not 99%, overwhelmingly male.
anom said
Wait a second , Walis was just speaking to stopping the rhetoric , the hurtful rhetoric on illegal immigration . People even from the left maide an issue of calling illegal immigrints by the name undocumented ? You would think concern about negative stereotypes would not be limited to which side of a political view you had ?
This isn't to say at all that white English-speaking males are per se holding these views
anom said
Anom that is very tolerant for you to say , obviously taken a diversity calls or two .
Anom you and Don should get together and read all the rules about this web site .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | November 16, 2007 2:28 AM
I do think that it's somewhat disingenuous and misleading to say that all that's wanted is simply enforcement of the laws that currently exist, when much of both the rhetoric and legislative proposals made are for additional, harsher restrictions, increased penalties, punishments and new additional laws.
It's not lost on me that all this is largely in reaction to the presence of brown-skinned descendants of people who have lived on this continent, once freely traveled as needed, for at least ten thousand years. Nor is it not in living memory just how the immigrants to this continent treated all the existing inhabitants when they arrived - removal, concentration camps, genocide.
Those relative latecomers also didn't mind displacing people from another faraway continent to serve themselves as slaves and be under their complete control while conquering.
What we are dealing with is all the accumulated psychological and sinful baggage accumulated from centuries of bad means in search of a just end.
We won't deny that we sought a just end - all our highest ideals show it meant something holy to us - but our bad means have brought us to quite another destination. If we are ever to arrive where we originally sought sanctuary, we must admit our collective sin, repent, relinquish bad means and seek to live together according to our highest ideals, not our basest instincts which threaten to destroy all that's good and blessed.
Now that is real conservatism, BTW.
Posted by: N.M. Rod | November 16, 2007 11:06 AM
It is tragic, but it's definitely not the first time, that religion has been used as a cover for hatred and intolerance of other human beings.
There's no more perfect one, since those doing it thereby inoculate themselves to hearing God's real voice since they drown His out with their own masquerading selfish rhetoric.
Why does mankind have to keep making these same mistakes? Especially, why do members of the church, called by His name, keep falling for the same old lies?
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How telling, you progressives do not want the Churches made illegal for promoting and housing criminal immigrants, but you are completely supportive of outlawing Christians and Christian Churches through the ENDA Bill. I can see both of your faces Jim.
Posted by: Donny | November 15, 2007 9:48 AM
The racism in this country continues to grow. Although I was not around at the time of Hitler's Nazism, I have read enough to know that there were quite a few "Christians" who tolerated, and in some cases, even helped round up Jews for the Nazis. The way some are demonizing the Latino immigrants reminds me of what happened in Nazi Germany. Do we never learn?
Posted by: conchita | November 15, 2007 11:39 AM
Donny,
I'm very curious how you see ENDA as outlawing Christians and Christian churches? I may not be a big fan of the bill, but I think it's a far cry from outlawing Christianity or Christian churches. Could you please clarify what you mean by that?
In His Love,
Dan
Posted by: Dan Barber | November 15, 2007 11:47 AM
All I have ever wanted was to enforce the laws on immigration that we have on the books. I remember back in the Carter years Mondale was in MN having a casual talk with people and supporters. The question of immigration was brought up and in a nut shell. Those that wanted to see immigration controled and laws enforced - even back then he labeled us as 'bigots'. Of course - the 'Star-Trib' forgot to report that one.
Yes - they are here - they need to apply and be screened and then if accepted - they can apply for citizenship. If they are rejected - they need to be sent back, they should be allowed to take their family with them so that we do not seperate them.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | November 15, 2007 12:01 PM
Somehow I have a feeling that 99.9% of those demonizing immigrants are
white and English-speaking, and, although not 99%, overwhelmingly male.
This isn't to say at all that white English-speaking males are per se holding these views. But, experience over a wide variety of acquaintances makes it clear that this is the group that you mostly find espousing these views.
I am sure they have their reasons, but this is the group that produces most of those who feel this way.
SO it does appear we are dealing with the same ethnic resentment/conflict phenomenon that appears and then fuels problems in the rest of the world.
Shouldn't be a surprise since the same DNA flows in American veins that flows everywhere else in the world.
When things go wrong scapegoats have to be found so that the mass of people don't turn on those who've made the mess they now have to suffer for.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 16, 2007 1:29 AM
Somehow I have a feeling that 99.9% of those demonizing immigrants are
white and English-speaking, and, although not 99%, overwhelmingly male.
anom said
Wait a second , Walis was just speaking to stopping the rhetoric , the hurtful rhetoric on illegal immigration . People even from the left maide an issue of calling illegal immigrints by the name undocumented ? You would think concern about negative stereotypes would not be limited to which side of a political view you had ?
This isn't to say at all that white English-speaking males are per se holding these views
anom said
Anom that is very tolerant for you to say , obviously taken a diversity calls or two .
Anom you and Don should get together and read all the rules about this web site .
Posted by: Mick Sheldon | November 16, 2007 2:28 AM
I do think that it's somewhat disingenuous and misleading to say that all that's wanted is simply enforcement of the laws that currently exist, when much of both the rhetoric and legislative proposals made are for additional, harsher restrictions, increased penalties, punishments and new additional laws.
It's not lost on me that all this is largely in reaction to the presence of brown-skinned descendants of people who have lived on this continent, once freely traveled as needed, for at least ten thousand years. Nor is it not in living memory just how the immigrants to this continent treated all the existing inhabitants when they arrived - removal, concentration camps, genocide.
Those relative latecomers also didn't mind displacing people from another faraway continent to serve themselves as slaves and be under their complete control while conquering.
What we are dealing with is all the accumulated psychological and sinful baggage accumulated from centuries of bad means in search of a just end.
We won't deny that we sought a just end - all our highest ideals show it meant something holy to us - but our bad means have brought us to quite another destination. If we are ever to arrive where we originally sought sanctuary, we must admit our collective sin, repent, relinquish bad means and seek to live together according to our highest ideals, not our basest instincts which threaten to destroy all that's good and blessed.
Now that is real conservatism, BTW.
Posted by: N.M. Rod | November 16, 2007 11:06 AM
It is tragic, but it's definitely not the first time, that religion has been used as a cover for hatred and intolerance of other human beings.
There's no more perfect one, since those doing it thereby inoculate themselves to hearing God's real voice since they drown His out with their own masquerading selfish rhetoric.
Why does mankind have to keep making these same mistakes? Especially, why do members of the church, called by His name, keep falling for the same old lies?
Draw closer to Jesus.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 16, 2007 11:26 AM
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