Crazy Evangelicals (by Brian McLaren)
On this Super Tuesday, there will no doubt be a lot of discussion (again) about the role of religion – and especially evangelical religion - in the election cycle. I wish more of them had the intelligence of a recent piece by NYT columnist Nicholas Kristof.
Speaking of evangelicals, Kristoff said:
Liberals believe deeply in tolerance and over the last century have led the battles against prejudices of all kinds, but we have a blind spot about Christian evangelicals. They constitute one of the few minorities that, on the American coasts or university campuses, it remains fashionable to mock. ... Bleeding-heart liberals could accomplish far more if they reached out to build common cause with bleeding-heart conservatives.
Kristof quotes The Great Awakening, where Jim Wallis says, "Evangelicals are going to vote this year in part on climate change, on Darfur, on poverty." Kristof then adds that, according to a CBS News poll, this year white evangelicals consider the fight against poverty to be the top moral issue, displacing abortion to a distant second.
I could see this shift in action a few weeks ago in Davos at the World Economic Forum. I got to see Rick Warren in action, motivating business and political leaders to put poverty, disease, and peace-making higher on their agenda. Kristof tells a story about Warren, who for many years didn't pay much attention to these issues of social justice and compassion. Then, during a 2003 visit to Africa, Rick came into a ramshackle tent where a little church was caring for 25 AIDS orphans.
Rick said, "I realized they were doing more for the poor than my entire megachurch. ... It was like a knife in the heart." Kristof recounts how Rick turned this heartbreak into action: mobilizing his church to constructive action in 68 countries, recruiting 7,500 members to pay their own way to serve poor people around the world – experiencing a transformation in their own values and priorities in the process.
Kristoff quotes CARE's Helene Gayle about evangelicals' work against global poverty: they "have made some incredible contributions … We don't give them credit for the changes they've made." Similarly, Environmental Defense president Fred Krupp said, "Many evangelical leaders have been key to taking the climate issue across the cultural divide."
Kristof concludes, "In parts of Africa where bandits and warlords shoot or rape anything that moves, you often find that the only groups still operating are Doctors Without Borders and religious aid workers: crazy doctors and crazy Christians."
As an evangelical, I occasionally watch late-night religious broadcasting and the word "crazy" comes to mind in a different way. But thankfully, Kristoff is right: there's a new kind of craziness spreading among evangelicals. It's the belief that the impossible can happen – that yes, we can stop global warming, yes, we can redirect the economy to benefit the poor majority, and yes, we can build bridges of peace instead of razor-wire-topped walls of distrust.
It will be interesting to see how that craziness manifests itself in today's elections.
Brian McLaren (brianmclaren.net) is board chair for Sojourners. Click here to see some of his video blogs, and learn about his Everything Must Change tour at deepshift.org.
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Comments
It will be interesting to see Christians ministering in poor countries working side by side with secular humanists that truly believe in cheap and meaningless promiscuity. Those Christians will have more to worry about than Ethnic and Islamic warlords. I would rather that Progressives and Liberals just send their money and stay at home near their closest Starbucks. My daughter (and son for that matter) is thinkiing of going on a mission. The last thing I want is to start worrying about her (and his) safety in the airport waiting area.
Please, Leftists, just send your money. Most missionary outreaches take credit card payments over the phone. I'll get you their numbers I promise. Please, just stay home. We've been doing this "help the poor" thing for many, many, many years.
Posted by: Donny | February 5, 2008 1:49 PM
In response to Donny...this is exactly the mentality that DOES NOT help the poor. Unnecessary divisions among people working for the well being of others is just that, unnecessary! Can you look past their "leftist" stance and realize that they too are doing what Jesus asked by helping the 'least of these'?
Coming from someone who has worked as a moderate humanitarian I take serious offense to your accusations against "leftists" and their inability to help the poor. If your kids want to pursue missions they will need a much more open mind in order to succeed than being fearful of the non-evangelicals of the world.
We all need to be a bit more accepting and look at the work that WE ALL are doing to improve human rights, poverty and the aid we are (as people of the world, left or right) trying to provide in order to improve the world, just as Jesus asked us to.
Posted by: Al | February 5, 2008 2:11 PM
Don't worry Donny. If your daughter is 1/100th as ugly as your comments, she's safe.
Posted by: bud duncan | February 5, 2008 2:13 PM
I take serious offense to your accusations against "leftists" and their inability to help the poor.
Posted by: Al
You must be new Al , but this goes on all the time here . The lefties actually do it more often , they have greater numbers . It gets old when they make the same commetns about the motives or their own negative slants on religious leaders that don't accept their government solutions also .
Stick around , try not to take it personal . And try not to allow yourself to use the old well I will attack your side because I am pure thing that gets so much traction round here . I fell for it , its toxic .
God Bless you for your devotion to those who have so little .
Posted by: Mick | February 5, 2008 2:18 PM
bud - oh my gosh how mean! but kind of funny... I am torn... laugh... or laugh harder!
Donny - really??... Most of my "good Christian" friends have not stayed celibate until marriage... and many of my "liberal, leftist" friends don't engage in rampant promescuity... and as for airports and "safety"... well just have your son stay away from American Airpot restrooms and he should be safe from closeted Republicans at any rate...
Truly, though, your remarks show the thin veil you hide behind: ignorance and assumption. I think your children are more at risk from inheriting your bigotted views than any "sin" that may touch either of them in the scary, big-bad, outside world... I hope both of them do go on a mission trip (I have and highly recommend it)... and they both meet liberals... and they become friends... and then they are transformed by those friendships to be a far more compassionate adults than you have probably raised them to be.
Posted by: e-dubya | February 5, 2008 3:33 PM
Donny
Do you mean leftists, those who practice promiscuity or secular humanist?
You post doesn't really make sense.
Posted by: Good ole Boy | February 5, 2008 3:47 PM
Frankly, due to the arrogance and pomposity of some evangelical leaders, not to mention their desire for political power and cultural authority, we deserve the criticism to a certain extent. They're called "stereotypes" because they have a great deal of truth to them.
For that reason, it's imperative that we pro-actively seek to change our own perception -- and stop seeking enemies where we're tempted to find them. (This means you, Donny.)
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 5, 2008 4:01 PM
Why dont the pollsters ask the same questions to both Democrats and Republicans?....for example, Do you consider yourself a E. Christian? Which Democratic would do you support? Ask the same question of all Americans....dont divide us,,,,,ask the us both the same question. Dont let the pollster's dictate who we are!
Democrat and proud of it and I will see you in paradise.....
Posted by: Ask the same question | February 5, 2008 4:04 PM
Donny
I am a bog standard UK Christian, not a US Republican or even a US Democrat. I really do not understand what you are talking about. Does it have anything to do with being a follower/believer in Jesus Christ?
Have you actually read Matthew 25?
Posted by: Annie | February 5, 2008 4:12 PM
Donny got here first! Donny got here first!
Folks, you know he's incorrigible and won't listen to a thing you say. Don't give him the complement of rational response, otherwise you're letting him hijack the thread. Respond to the article, not to the abrasive response.
Posted by: I and I | February 5, 2008 4:13 PM
I don't know that the poor, the hungry, the rejected, the sick, or the injuried really care that help reaches them from the hands of the left or right as long as it merely meets their needs. Regardless of political or sociological mindsets those in true need are ours to take care of or to dispose of in one form or another. So what would be the most resonable and humanistic path for us to take?
Passage John 13:35:
This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples—when they see the love you have for each other."
doug
Posted by: Doug Sharp | February 5, 2008 4:16 PM
Piling on Donny's poor wording unfortunately does not change the fact that the left doesn't share their money or time freely. This is well documented in Dr. Arthur Brooks book "Who Really Cares." So Donny asking leftists "Please send your money" isn't likely to happen to any measurable degree. The liberal mindset seems ultimately to be self serving.
Posted by: brian | February 5, 2008 4:19 PM
Oh please! You're all pretty! Now will you quit your fighting so we can all work together?
Posted by: John Zeigler | February 5, 2008 4:32 PM
Democrat and proud of it and I will see you in paradise.....
Posted by: Ask the same question
Be carefull what you ask for . Many of those in the media have a strong pre biased position on people of faith . I see what you are saying , and I believe I understand why a view on the right appears to be based on a "religious" view point is dismissing your own credible ability to have a reasonable Bibical view on the issues . Indeed it must be frustrating for your view to be not even considered to be thought out by your Bibical and Love of God and His word .
I re call a Black Pastor who I supported in a situation where he was denied the ability to speak to a High School Assembly during Black History month after he was originally invited . The Principle stated it had to do with separation of church and state , I called her up and asked her if Martin Luther King was still alive would she stop him from speaking . She backed up , but many people see religion as a reason to dismiss your viewpoint . And it is a popular tactic from many in the left . It just is .
Posted by: Mick | February 5, 2008 4:52 PM
I just finished a journal reflection of the experience my wife and I had during two vists to the Eastern Cape, South Africa. I set this to our Presbtyerian Church (U.S.A.) mission recruitment offices as part of our application for mission co-worker positions in South Africa. Yes Donny, send money to the aid organization of your choice. But moreover, thank God your daughter and son are so filled with the love of God for the world that they are listening to Christ's call.
I consider myself to be an evenagelical with a progressive slant, and of the Reformed pursuasion. Our work in South Africa has been among South African Christians who are more "conservative" than I. Together we are passionate about the Christly work of feeding the hungry, healing the sick, visiting the prisioner, housing the homeless and orphaned. There are skills, talents and abilities western Christians can share in partnership with those in Africa, Latin America, and Asia.
It is really more about helping others build the capacity to create secure food, health, educational, and economic resources.
I was strenghtened and encouraged by the prayers we shared with members of an evangelical congregation who were traveling on the same plane with us to the Eastern Cape, to offer dental care in rural villages and townships. We prayed and affirmed our mutual partnership through diverse mission responses as the work of Christ.
These partnerships strengthen the work we do, and strenghten those we serve in the name of Christ. We are respnding to the upward call of Christ, and away from a world that says,"Just send money."
Brian McLaren's blog was a just and true effort to move us away from angry reactionism and division toward joy-filled and loving partnership as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Thank you, Brian.
Posted by: Larry | February 5, 2008 5:09 PM
Be careful what you ask for. Many of those in the media have a strong pre biased position on people of faith.
Based totally upon how "people of faith" act and nothing more, and that includes bashing the media for being "liberal." I'm in the business, and people react to what they see -- and it isn't always pretty.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 5, 2008 5:34 PM
Mick
I take exception to your equating Donny's hateful rhetoric to criticisms by the left. No one, left or right, comes anywhere close to Donny's stinkful writings. Some may have tried, but Donny is in a "class" by himself.It's best to just not respond to him, since he chooses not to learn anything from anyone else, but instead to listen to his own demons.
Posted by: c kitty | February 5, 2008 6:08 PM
Crazy? Hardly. But I do think that these evangelicals (including McLaren) who think that these problems can be "solved" are living in la-la land. (or should I say a cloud-cuckoo-land?)
Posted by: Ben Wheaton | February 5, 2008 6:18 PM
Someone mentioned about the propensity of the middle-aged to become conservative and more "property-centric." The trend is there because with age many people begin to accumulate property and are therefore in "protection" mode. It's not simply because attitudes harden along with arteries.
Why have some self-described from the "right" become so bitter over time in the Sojourners forums?
The description of the language and attitude as "toxic" is in some cases is too often accurate.
Initially, one can believe they were optimistic at "converting" those they saw as wrongfully left. Now some of the methodology may have been along the lines of Ann Coulter's "How to Talk to a Liberal - If You Must!" but one can't doubt the sincerity in taking the religious right mission field to the Sojourners blogs.
Initially, Martin Luther was a defender of and well-disposed towards the Jews in Germany - he saw them as a mission field ripe for harvesting.
Over a period of time, Luther became discouraged at the Jews' instransigence in the face of his sincere message and the refusal of most to convert. They simply refused, stiff-necked, he believed, to listen to the Lutheran message of grace, and had hardened their hearts to the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, by the end of his life, Luther authored hate-filled diatribes against the Jews, calling for them to be driven from their homes and their synagogues burned.
Hell hath no fury like a fundamentalist scorned?
In any case, it seems somewhat intellectually and spiritually immature to offer up opinions and then become angry and disparaging when other people protest they have good reasons for skepticism about them.
If one believes one is so perfect in one's own opinions that there cannot be a teachable spirit when discussing things, then it's not a discussion but attempted propagandizing, a one-way street if ever there was one.
It's not what these forums are for at all - and if it's attempted to fit them to it, there is bound to be frustration for those attempting it.
Posted by: Sojourner Truth | February 5, 2008 6:22 PM
take exception to your equating Donny's hateful rhetoric to criticisms by the left
C Kitty ,
Well take a look at the retort to what I just said above yours concerning what those in the media . The media according to polls and my own experiences actually have a lower church going membership then say lawyers.
Not saying much . ;0)
.
======================================
Based totally upon how "people of faith" act and nothing more, and that includes bashing the media for being "liberal." I'm in the business, and people react to what they see -- and it isn't always pretty.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin
============================================
Its Rick's constant consistent ad nauseum self supposed moral superficial belief in a party that comes off less as "religious"
Wallis speaking up for people of faith in his party is a good thing , I heard he was lobbying even to have a provision in the national party platform to lighten up on their abortion plank in the platform . Thats a good thing . That will meet with some hostility in your party . Rick associates conservative beliefs with racism , ignorance , selfishness, hate , etc . And assumes those with a liberal perspective on politics are some how kinder and "care" more . Do you feel insulted when Donny makes the same observations , perhaps different insults , but it comes from the same line of thinking .
I suggest well meaning and caring Christians can see different answers to todays problems . What say you ?
From my experience , nothing comes close to the nastiness of the left , narrowmindness , secret plots to make the United States a theocracy , from the cries of racism , dragging a black man in a commercial and equating that to Bush . In Georgia commercials are run that say Republicans elected will bring back lynchings . gore once said Evangelicals have one chromosome missing comparing them to the people with Downs Syndrome . Maybe he was having a bad day , maybe a person just called him a baby killer , who knows , the nasty attacks happen from both sides .
. Sort of like the deal with the gentlemen who was leading in a state then was shown in a commercial with a white women at a playboy club or whatever .
Dragging a black man by a rope can be somewhat tasteless too also . Please understand I am using exagerations to show that in politics you share partnerships with people that may not reflect your personal beliefs or concern about being respectfull . The deal with the Ricks and Donnys is they try and take your opinion , and make it appear less respected by associating it with evil . Its as old as politics , new issues , but that kind of politics is just sewer politics .
But again , I am on the republican side of the political compass , so I assume I take note of more incoming insults directed to the things I support politically .
But thats the point ,
Rick is the same idealogical trap as Donny is .
You fail to see it Kitty ?
You should see how the liberals attack the media because of bias , ever hear about Fox ? Yes it is slanted to the right . CNBC , NPR , CNN , not exactly conservative supporters . In my local town , the editorial section of the paper endorsed EVERY democratic candidate . The folks here still claim the media is run by corporations with a conservative agenda . The name calling is atrocious . I tend to think Bush made some really bad mistakes , however the fact he is a drunken liar backed by corporate greed with the help of the conservative racist media gets to be a little old , and supporting the view that people who believe in smaller government , more freedom in our lives are really trying to hurt someone is no different then how Donny uses stereotypes to hurt your sincere views .
Which by the way , if it was not for the Ricks or Donnys on this blog , I believe we could actually learn from each other by those views . I am supprting John McCain . I happen to think he is the best man to get us out of Iraq , make sure we don't do something like that again and keep us safe also . The folks I aggree with most of the time are pummeling him , the left is being nice . When the elction cycle is down to two , the left will not be nice anymore , and the sudden conservative I can't stand the guy will be talking about he is a great war hero .
"sigh"
Rick and Donny , God bless them both , think we can only learn from them .
No , we only learn that they are right and they never heard what we had to say .
Posted by: Mick | February 5, 2008 6:51 PM
"Rick is the same idealogical trap as Donny is .
You fail to see it Kitty?"
I fail to see it Mick. Is Rick aggressive? Very. Is he nasty and mean-spirited? Once in a great while but not on a constant basis like Donny. But then Rick's not a troll, and it sure seems like Donny is.
Donny might not be a troll. But all we can go on here is what people write on this blog, and what Donny writes leads me to believe that he's on here to stir sh*t up, not contribute to dialogue.
Posted by: carl copas | February 5, 2008 8:00 PM
John McCain is a principled man against torture - for which he was pilloried by most of the Right - but he won't be reducing our Iraq footprint. He's stated he wants to increase the number of deployed troops and that he wouldn't mind America occupying Iraq for another hundred years - or I suppose, until all their oil that's our strategic resource is pumped out. The large permanent bases there and the world's largest embassy have not been constructed for us to be leaving any time soon, but for a permanent occupation.
Imperial occupation armies must have governments that are willing to suffer a baseline of attrition to maintain empire. At a certain point, the American public will accept this as the permanent cost of trying to maintain a preeminent lifestyle. We have been told upon occasion that we are indeed fighting for our way of life.
What remains to be seen is whether we can afford it, which in itself ironically threatens that highly materialistic way of life as the economic costs of permanent war are enormous or even if institutionalising paranoia through "Homeland Security" as a way of governing will permanently erode the non-economic aspects of freedom.
Melding Christianity with "war heroism" is a syncretic and synthetic spirituality that is as hazardous to true faith as any other cult that pollutes the gospel with its own agenda.
It would seem that a religious conservatism would be true to authentic Christianity rather than a later compromise that subjugated and subordinated truth to a particular state's secular interests.
Posted by: Sojourner Truth | February 5, 2008 8:31 PM
Umm, I am a lefty that works in an innercity highschool that prepares kids to graduate. So I find this debate laughable. I can think of over 20 leftist people right off the top of my head that would put most missionaries to shame.
I also know a few conservatives that live and attempt to uplift the innercity and yes they are white.
My point is that the activist wing of the green party and democratic party does much good. So Donny we need you to stay home, the less xenophobic fear about Mexicans (or others) the better.
Like we need more right wing zealots spreading condemnation, fear and shame.
p
Posted by: payshun | February 5, 2008 9:14 PM
Well take a look at the retort to what I just said above yours concerning what those in the media. The media according to polls and my own experiences actually have a lower church going membership then say lawyers.
Two things about that. For openers, I grew up in a church environment, and only one person I knew -- not myself at the time -- aspired to go into journalism. (I decided to do that when I was in my 20s.) Then, how often to Christians reach out to journalists, and I don't mean to "give them the business"? Not often, I suspect.
From my experience, nothing comes close to the nastiness of the left, narrowmindness, secret plots to make the United States a theocracy, from the cries of racism, dragging a black man in a commercial and equating that to Bush. In Georgia commercials are run that say Republicans elected will bring back lynchings.
Well, considering that these were once real threats from Southern conservatives, who long ago switched from Democrat to Republican, I can understand that. My family is largely from that part of the country and I went to school down there, so given that history I understand that.
I tend to think Bush made some really bad mistakes, however the fact he is a drunken liar backed by corporate greed with the help of the conservative racist media gets to be a little old, and supporting the view that people who believe in smaller government, more freedom in our lives are really trying to hurt someone is no different then how Donny uses stereotypes to hurt your sincere views.
Unfortunately, those views above actually do have considerable merit. Ronald Reagan despised Martin Luther King Jr. and zinged him upon his assassination (I'm not calling him a racist; however, racists loved him), and did you notice that no blacks were called in to give a tribute to him when he died? That was no coincidence. And in fact, there is actually a conservative media machine, which we saw go full-bore against Bill Clinton until its "game" was exposed right when he was impeached; today it has little credibility (and Fox News's ratings fell off when the Iraq War dragged on).
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 5, 2008 10:03 PM
Geesh Donnie, maybe you haven't met many missionaries. Let me introduce you to Virginia's Governor- Tim Kaine..who took a year off of law school to be a Catholic missionary. Oh yeah, he's a progressive too.
Let me also introduce myself- a proud liberal devout Catholic who has been researching missionary trips to Haiti.
Don't speak in stereotypes, speak in Christ's love. Making ASSumptions just tends to make one little more than an A$$.
Pax Christi
Posted by: marialynn | February 5, 2008 10:15 PM
Mick
You're right -- I don't see the same hatefulness om Rick's comments that saturates Donny's comments. Truthfully, I tend to skip over the Rick-Mick dogfights. Although both of you sometimes have things to say that are positive contributions to the discussion, the two of you end up just trading insults after awhile. I generally skip over Donny's tirades for the same reason and because it is so immensely sad that anyone choosees to self-inflict so much poison. It's like watching someone inject themselves with deadly drugs.
Posted by: c kitty | February 5, 2008 10:55 PM
I see 5 heresies in American evangelicalism:
1. Inerrency of Scripture
2. Penal Substitutionary Atonement
3. Non-apostolic ordination
4. Dispensationalism
5. Monophysitism
Anywhere you find these 5 things, you find a distorted Christianity which clouds the Gospel. You find a hardness of heart which supports war in Iraq, doesn't support universal healthcare, doesn't welcome the alien or include the sexually other, and focuses on consumerism.
The cure for the first heresy is the realization that Scripture is a dialogue between fallible humans and the infinite God. It points to the transcendent without erasing the flaws and weaknesses of searching humans.
The cure for the second heresy is to realize that no one knows exactly how Atonement works. All we know is that God accepts us, completely, without requiring any correct action or correct belief.
The cure for the third heresy to recognize that leadership needs to submit to the Apostles. You can't simply declare yourself a leader--leaders must be discerned and presented to the followers of the Apostles in order to make sure their teachings are built on the foundation of 2000 years of the working of the Holy Spirit in the Church. Jesus told the 12 "He who obeys you obeys Me." A leader, to obey Jesus, must place himself at the feet of the successors of the Apostles.
The cure for the fourth heresy is to realize that nobody knows the date or time, and the only thing you need to know is that it's best to be caught doing the Lord's work when He returns. Wasting your time on foolish controversies is not the work of God.
The cure for the fifth heresy is to realize Jesus is not God in a mansuit--Jesus is the same as us in all things, except without sin. Jesus wouldn't know the capital of Nebraska or be able to lift a semi-truck or be able to fly around earth at superspeeds to reverse time. He is fully human--and fully divine. It's a mystery. Jesus asks us to worship God, not Him. He accepts worship, but while accepting worship, He points to God as the object of worship.
Once the evangelical movement clears itself up of these 5 heresies, it will see more clearly where the Holy Spirit is leading and so be able to open its heart to the prompting of God.
Posted by: Ashpenaz | February 5, 2008 10:59 PM
Mick
You're right -- I don't see the same hatefulness om Rick's comments that saturates Donny's comments
Well then ,hopefully in the future you and I could at least agree to share insights and conversations not based in preconceived notions and biases that limit our ability to have an exchange based on the God Given uniqueness our Father created us with . . When one uses references to Conservative Christians of today most likely supporting Hitler based on his intolerance of communism as Mr Rick did in a public editorial in Pittsburg , it automatically makes a rational debate on the dangers of communism impossible and it does put conservative positions in a reference to supporting Hitler .
So do you attack back , ignore , or move on . The Lord says to shake the dust off our shoes and move on , which your right in the way you are handling Donny . I will try .
Posted by: Mick | February 6, 2008 12:24 AM
"I can think of over 20 leftist people right off the top of my head that would put most missionaries to shame."
Really ? All The Missionaries I know do their best not to allow anyone be put to shame . But I guess your leftist friends like doing that .
Posted by: Mick | February 6, 2008 12:40 AM
"Really ? All The Missionaries I know do their best not to allow anyone be put to shame . But I guess your leftist friends like doing that."
Your reading comprehension skills need work. My leftist friends don't like putting anyone to shame either.
p
Posted by: Payshun | February 6, 2008 1:42 AM
When one uses references to Conservative Christians of today most likely supporting Hitler based on his intolerance of communism as Mr Rick did in a public editorial in Pittsburg, it automatically makes a rational debate on the dangers of communism impossible and it does put conservative positions in a reference to supporting Hitler.
I stand by that, and I think I have good historical reasons to do so, not the least their support of any brutal, repressive (but anti-communist) regime on the planet in the 1980s, most notably South Africa during the apartheid era. Jimmy Swaggart went over there and "didn't see any problems," and Jerry Falwell met with leadership -- and that strained relationships with black Christians. Even Europe feared Stalin more than Hitler back then.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 6, 2008 8:07 AM
Ashpenaz,
Lately you've been trying to steer the conversation here in the direction of this latest tangent of what you perceive to be heresies. Someday when it is relevant to the conversation, I would love to give dialogue with you on these topics.
Bring it back up when it is on topic.
Jeff
Posted by: Jeff | February 6, 2008 10:12 PM
"I stand by that, and I think I have good historical reasons to do so, not the least their support of any brutal, repressive (but anti-communist) regime on the planet in the 1980s, most notably South Africa during the apartheid era. Jimmy Swaggart went over there and "didn't see any problems," and Jerry Falwell met with leadership -- and that strained relationships with black Christians. Even Europe feared Stalin more than Hitler back then."Posted by: Rick Nowlin
Rick, I fully see your point. You are right. And it is religious leaders like that who either cause people to lose their faith or to question their faith and seek a different religious paradigm than the one they are offering.
Posted by: JamesMartin | February 7, 2008 9:25 AM
And it is religious leaders like that who either cause people to lose their faith or to question their faith and seek a different religious paradigm than the one they are offering.
That is what caused Mohandas Gandhi to reject Christianity when he was living in South Africa in the 1920s. In 2000 I heard a story during a church membership class in which, disillusioned with Hinduism, he had tried to enter a church but was barred because he wasn't white. Having read the Bible, he concluded, "These people don't practice what they preach." Also, I nearly cried when a black South African leader, speaking on ABC News "Nightline," blamed "the born-again Christians" in this country for essentially supporting apartheid.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 7, 2008 10:50 AM
"that yes, we can stop global warming, yes, we can redirect the economy to benefit the poor majority, and yes, we can build bridges of peace instead of razor-wire-topped walls of distrust."
Global Warming: Is there really a problem? Lies of liberals.
Direct the Economy: Steal from the rich to feed the poor. Great. Marx would be proud.
Build Bridges of Peace Instead of Razor-Wire: I am sure McLaren would not have fought in WWII.
Posted by: Roy | February 7, 2008 3:58 PM
I like to keep my eyes on the prize, and keep it local. A lot of missional work doesn't happen only in far off lands.
Joining in common cause, people of all faiths work together in local communities like ours, maybe not as part of an official coalition that wants public recognition, but average folks at the grass roots who want to end poverty and hunger (both material and spiritual) and work to build a sustainable community based economy and local culture.
To me, that is the next frontier.
Posted by: Richard Flyer | February 7, 2008 5:01 PM
"Global Warming: Is there really a problem? Lies of liberals.
Direct the Economy: Steal from the rich to feed the poor. Great. Marx would be proud.
Build Bridges of Peace Instead of Razor-Wire: I am sure McLaren would not have fought in WWII." Roy
With opinions like that, it is not difficult to see how the US public was duped into supporting the Iraq adventure, and for voting in favour of Son of Star Wars. Please tell me that conspiracy theorists are a bit thinner on the ground than i fear.
BTW, Roy, did you know the acting chair of the International Panel on Climate Change Bob Watson is an evangelical Christian? Or does the fact he is not a US citizen rule him out of hearing?
Feargal
Posted by: Feargal | February 7, 2008 8:07 PM
"Redirect the economy to help the poor majority"
You mean allow the government to massively redistribute wealth in the name of "compassion."
Making people dependent on government welfare is not compassion nor is breaking the eighth commandment in order to do so.
Posted by: Chris D. | February 19, 2008 1:12 PM
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