Recent Adventures in Radio Activity (by Jim Wallis)
Late last week, The Great Awakening book tour brought me to Seattle, Washington. On the media circuit we had a day packed with four back-to-back radio interviews. Almost more interesting than the interviews themselves was the diversity of listening audiences represented by each station.
Interviews ranged from a progressive Seattle rock station (the first to break the news of Kurt Cobain's death back in 1994), to moderate NPR, to conservative talk-show host Michael Medved, to Salem Christian radio. The appearances on these shows has become archetypal of the ways we are reaching people across the spectrum—all the way from left-wing Air America (the previous day in Portland), to NPR, to centrist AM talk radio, to right-wing talk radio, to conservative Christian stations.
I ended the day with Thor Tolo [you can download the mp3], a conservative evangelical radio talk-show host, and had perhaps one of the most thoughtful interviews I've ever engaged in on a Salem radio station—and one of the most interesting of the book tour so far.
When our discussion turned to the subject of poverty, I brought up how all too often our lack of relationship with the poor is a deeper problem than our ideological debates about how to solve poverty – how very few of us, including liberal Democrats, including Christians, have real relationships with the poor.
As a committed Christian and committed conservative, Thor believes it's primarily the church's responsibility to address poverty—not the government's. Even so, he admitted, "I feel very convicted by what you just said," and admitted his lack of relationship with poor people, even though he had concerns about government helping to promote a cycle of dependency.
I said we need a grand alliance between conservatives and liberals on the issue, an alliance that calls on liberals to address family breakdown, out-of-wedlock births, and other dimensions of poverty involving personal responsibility, and for conservatives to champion strategic investments in housing, health care, and education—with clear outcomes and results.
But I added, "When did Jesus ever call his followers to serve only the deserving poor?"
Smiling, he conceded the point. It's hard to disagree with Jesus.
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Jim Wallis wrote:
But I added, "When did Jesus ever call his followers to serve only the deserving poor?"
True. But given limitations of available resources, shouldn't those who deserve help get the first cut? Furthermore, God entrusts those who show themselves to be good stewards with much. Those who are poor stewards, IIRC, get entrusted with not so much. IMO, the "undeserving poor" are those who have demonstrated a history of poor stewardship. Of course we aren't God, but we still have to practice discernment.
Posted by: Ngchen | February 8, 2008 3:39 PM
"When did Jesus ever call his followers to serve only the deserving poor?"
He also told us that the poor will always be with us. It is no sin to be poor and maybe we need to define what poor is. Now - we need to help them and make a way for them to improve the exsistance. It's the idea of a 'hand-up' not always a 'hand-out'. We just do not need to develope another Large Gov't Program to deal with this issue.
Hear Wallis on the radio with M.M. whom I had the change to meet and have a cup of coffee with a number of years ago. Great guy.
I see that Wallis is coming to Mpls. - I will have to see if I can clear my schedule and go hear him and maybe by his book. I have a cousin I can give it to for his birthday. (just kidding, I will read it - as soon as I can finish G.P.)
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | February 8, 2008 3:59 PM
But given limitations of available resources, shouldn't those who deserve help get the first cut? Furthermore, God entrusts those who show themselves to be good stewards with much.
The point is that we cannot know who those people are upon first glance. That might lead to the attitude that "salvation is wasted among certain people," yet that's total nonsense.
He also told us that the poor will always be with us.
In that context he was saying, however, "You can help them whenever you want" (doing so was part and parcel of Jewish culture), "but you will not always have Me." It was an issue of worship, not charity, as He framed it.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 8, 2008 4:07 PM
'But given limitations of available resources...'
I was talking to the Lord recently-- OK, He was talking to me-- and He said, 'Ted, do you suppose I'd create a world that couldn't sustain everybody who lived in it? Am I stingy? Am I not extravagant in My Provision?'
The very notion of 'limitations of available resources', 'scarcity', on which capitalism is based reveals its ungodliness. In God's economy there is no such concept as 'scarcity'. 'He who gathered a lot didn't have too much, and he who gathered only a little had plenty.'(My V, Exodus 16.18: Paul quotes it, 2nd Corinthians 8.15...)
If God doesn't acknowledge scarcity, where does it come from? It comes from the world, one of the three enemies of the Faith. The world is the aggregate of humanity, unsaved, and too much, saved. Scarcity is a creature of man's selfishness, or greed, and Paul says 'Greed [is] idolatry,' Colossians 3.5, the worship of a false god.
Incidentally, I was just rereading the US Constitution recewntly, and noticed something I hadn't seen before: 'We the people of the United States, in order to... promote the general welfare... do ordain and establish this Constitution...' That could use some exegesis, but I've written too much already...
Posted by: Ted Voth Jr | February 8, 2008 4:07 PM
With the risk of getting off topic, Ted, can you elaborate on your beliefs about scarcity? Are you saying that we should trust in God, as he will provide for us? That we shouldn't worry about storing up treasures on earth? Or are you saying something more... that it is actually impossible to run out of resources? I'm just confused I guess...
Posted by: Eric | February 8, 2008 4:54 PM
Ted -
Good point, although that phrase "promote the general welfare" can be, and has been, interpreted in a variety of ways.
As far as I'm concerned, one of the great ironies in the current attitude toward the poor is represented by the political conversion of the South during the 20th century. As Paul Krugman has pointed out, the ascendancy of conservative politics in the past few decades can be explained to an embarrassing extent by five words: "Southern whites started voting Republican."
This is partly due, of course, to Lyndon Johnson's coming out in favor of civil rights. There is a bigger story, though. The South as a region used to be the poorest in the country. What changed that was the New Deal, which is why the South consistently voted for Roosevelt. Progressive government programs raised the standard of living in the South so much that it eventually went solidly Republican.
That's why the current attitude of so many conservative politicians can be so galling. If it hadn't been for the success of government programs, they wouldn't have gotten elected, because there wouldn't have been a base of prosperous white people in the South to vote for them!
That said, as a Southern liberal, I am certainly willing to join an alliance that promotes personal responsibility. What about those on the other side?
Posted by: Another nonymous | February 8, 2008 5:06 PM
i am confused. what is the current attitude about the poor? what progressive government programs raised the standard of living in the south?
what is the definition of poor in the u s? i like thor's "cycle of dependency" theory.
i hope jim's one note samba sells books in seatle.
Posted by: jerry | February 8, 2008 7:34 PM
One example among many: The Tennessee Valley Authority, which provided flood control, jobs and cheap electricity to a vast area. One of the main reasons Goldwater lost the South in 1964 was that he wanted to privatize TVA. People knew a good thing when they had it, and they didn't want to lose it.
Posted by: Another nonymous | February 8, 2008 7:57 PM
The Church has pawned off it's responsibility to help the poor on the government so that Churches can focus on more important things, like putting together a really cool light show for the praise band and keeping the website updated.
Hey, since we're delegating our responsibilities here, why not go ahead and have the government fund our churches and missionary work?
Posted by: Brad | February 9, 2008 9:47 PM
Jerry: "I hope Jim's one note samba sells books in Seattle."
I suppose that's better than calling it a "Desafinado." :)
(Sorry to the other readers for the opaque joke-- you gotta be a bossa nova fan to appreciate it...)
Posted by: I and I | February 11, 2008 1:29 PM
Sorry to the other readers for the opaque joke -- you gotta be a bossa nova fan to appreciate it...
I'm hip -- in Portuguese, "desafinado" literally means "slightly out of tune," which I don't think Wallis is. But now that we're talking about Jobim songs, how about "Water to Drink"?
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | February 11, 2008 3:22 PM
"I'm hip -- in Portuguese, "desafinado" literally means "slightly out of tune," which I don't think Wallis is. But now that we're talking about Jobim songs, how about "Water to Drink"?"
There we go! At least nobody can say "How Insensitive," or accuse him playing "Children's Games."
Posted by: I and I | February 11, 2008 4:24 PM
I'm a church secretary and also co-chair of an ecumenical food pantry in Michigan. Before I read Jim's article today I had been thinking about this very subject.
Poor people are either on the phone or at my desk every day. Most would like to work and manage by themselves. So many just can't. Here in Michigan jobs are very, very scarce.
I believe that if you spend some time with poor people you will begin to understand how multi-layered their problems are. We serve an average 275 families a week at our church pantry. It is a joy to serve them! God has given us the money and volunteers to provide this very large ministry. But, people we see have so many other needs that go unmet - I truly believe the government has to have a role as well.
Get to know poor people, see what they are up against, and lets work together!
Posted by: Janet Jaeger | February 11, 2008 5:39 PM
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