Hope for Zimbabwe? (by Anne Junod)
As the world awaits the results of last Saturday's election in Zimbabwe, the stakes are high. Here's one firsthand account of Robert Mugabe's tyrannous rule and disastrous mismanagement of the economy (just two of the problems that, as the April issue of Sojourners described, have prompted anti-Mugabe protests by people of faith).
Oddly, the main street of Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe, is much like Disneyland. There are massive casinos, tourist shops on every corner, and luxury hotels replete with stereotypical African décor: large elephant tusk-lined foyers, thatched roofs, and zebra rugs abound. This part of the city is meant for the tourist.
What is not meant for the tourist, and what president Mugabe does not want the rest of the world to see, are the markets and backstreets, the hovels and the empty grocery stores - the reality of Zimbabwe. At the Zimbabwe/Zambia border crossing, multitudes of women and men line up at all hours of the day, in hopes of crossing into Zambia to sell their wares, where the Zambian Kwacha fares a much better rate than the Zimbabwean dollar. Women wait - patiently, fervently, with their babies wrapped to their backs, balancing baskets on their heads for hours on end - in order to sell enough soap, homemade sadza, or beads to feed their children for the day.
When I spent time in Zimbabwe last summer, banks were open, but they had no money. American dollars were coveted, but hyperinflation made them impossible to use. The Zimbabwean government had fixed the exchange rate so that, even as its own dollar lost value by the hour, individuals seeking to legally exchange American dollars for Zim dollars would do just as well to simply give the banks their money.
The problems in Zimbabwe are much deeper than fiscal. It is uncouth to publicly say the name "Mugabe"; if it must be spoken, it is to be whispered. I learned this quickly. After sitting in a restaurant with fellow volunteers and referencing him in conversation, the entire restaurant grew silent, and I felt all sets of eyes on me. Civilians are not able to speak freely of their opinions of Mugabe. At the mentioning of his name, even in casual conversation, lips tighten and eyes avert, for fear of imprisonment or worse.
Few expected last Saturday's election in Zimbabwe to be conducted fairly, and many now look to the future of Zimbabwe with hopelessness, with or without Mugabe's leadership. But this situation is not, and cannot be, regarded as hopeless - for to concede as much would be tantamount to dismissing the future of all Zimbabweans. The truth is, there is a power in the people of Zimbabwe that cannot justly be ignored. In the history of justice movements, nothing has ever been accomplished by conceding to lost causes. Mugabe is undeserving of the amount of international attention he has received; the real story is found in the hope of his people.
Anne Junod spent last summer volunteering in Zambia and Zimbabwe with the U.K. based volunteer organization African Impact.
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'The Zimbabwe Electoral Support Network (ZESN http://www.zesn.org.zw/) have just completed a conference and have now released the following Presidential results: Morgan Tsvangirai leading with 49.4% (2.4%), Robert Mugabe 41.8% (2.6%) and Simba Makoni 8.2% (1.1%) in (margin of error). The Zimbabwe Election Support Network (ZESN) said its projections giving him 49.4 percent were based on a random sample of 435 polling stations across the country’s 10 provinces.'
Posted by: justintime | March 31, 2008 6:41 PM
Mugabe will never give up power and it is senseless to try. We should leave them alone.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | March 31, 2008 8:04 PM
Yahoo news: The MDC (Movement for Democratic Change) said unofficial tallies showed Tsvangirai had 60 percent of the presidential vote, twice the total for Mugabe, with more than half the results counted. Private polling organizations also put Tsvangirai well ahead.
"In our view, as we stated before, we cannot see the national trend changing. This means the people have spoken, they've spoken against the dictatorship," MDC Secretary-General Tendai Biti said.
In his first public comments since the vote, Makoni criticized the way results were being announced. "We are very worried by the manner in which things are unfolding," he said.
Tsvangirai and some international observers accused Mugabe of stealing the last presidential election in 2002.
The opposition has accused the veteran leader of delaying the issuing of the results in a bid to steal the election, which Zimbabweans hoped would help rescue a country ravaged by an economic crisis.
"It is now clear that there is something fishy. The whole thing is suspicious and totally unacceptable," MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa said.
___________
Is Karl Rove managing Mugabe's campaign?
Posted by: justintime | March 31, 2008 9:24 PM
Is Karl Rove managing Mugabe's campaign?
LOL
Posted by: carl copas | March 31, 2008 11:04 PM
moderatelad: "Mugabe will never give up power and it is senseless to try. We should leave them alone"
Moderatelad, what would you recommend as good, reliable sources of information on Zimbabwe? I know nothing about that nation.
Posted by: carl copas | March 31, 2008 11:17 PM
Mugabe will never give up power and it is senseless to try. We should leave them alone. - Moderatelad
___________
Bush ignored this advice before going 'Blind into Baghdad".
Posted by: justintime | March 31, 2008 11:43 PM
Although the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) refused to indicate who was winning the race for the presidency, MDC secretary-general Tendai Biti maintained party leader Morgan Tsvangirai had won twice as many votes as Mr Mugabe, winning by a margin of 60 per cent to 30. The MDC, which carried out its own tallies at polling stations around the country, insisted they were also ahead in the parliamentary election, having taken 117 seats to Zanu-PF's 50 so far.
The slow release of the official results has created an atmosphere in which rumour and speculation has become rife, and fueled allegations that the 48 hours since the polls closed have been used to rig the election in favour of Mr Mugabe and his Zanu-PF party. Riot police in armoured carriers were deployed in two of Harare's restive townships last night. A resident of one of the townships, opposition strongholds, said a convoy of riot police in about 20 vehicles moved through the area.
A member of the MDC's national executive, Eddie Cross, told The Irish Times that Mr Mugabe's attempts to steal the election had been thwarted by the ZEC and the army. "Mugabe's inner circle tried to secure a 52 per cent victory for him in the presidential race last night, but we have been told that this has failed as both the ZEC and the army have refused to support him. "We feel that the slow release of the results by the ZEC is to allow Zanu-PF to get its house in order before Morgan Tsvangirai is declared the new president," he said from his home in Bulawayo.
_________
Will the MDC will take over Zimbabwe?
I hope Mugabe leaves peacefully.
The economy is a basket case, with 100,000% inflation rate.
And I hope Zimbabwe recovers Mugabe's stolen wealth. This would go a long way towards paying off Mugabe's bad loans from the World Bank.
But really this debt should be forgiven.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 12:07 AM
Posted by: carl copas | March 31, 2008 11:17 PM
Two close friends from Africa. One from South Africa and the other who had to leave Zimbabwe. They had relatives that were able to stay. Owned very large farms and hired many people to help them work the farm. They paid them a wage that a lot higher than what others were paying them in the community. (they supported the change from white to black gov't - oh yes - they are white) They had their farm taken away and it is now a waste land because the people that the Mugabe plan gave it to blacks that were 'friends of Mugabe' that knew nothing about farming.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 7:51 AM
Posted by: justintime | March 31, 2008 11:43 PM
Bush ignored this advice before going 'Blind into Baghdad".
Thank you for not doing the Bush Bash - I knew someone would. The same evidence that Bush saw is the same that Clinton - Kerry - Kennedy and Nancy and Harry saw and they supported the invasion.
So - I look farward to the end of the war in the Mideast. If Obama wins we will be out in months. Then I plan in sitting on my lilly white backside just like Wallis and Co. and only talk about what needs to be done. I will never support any military action for any reason on foreign soil. The radical terrorists of UBL can bomb the bajots out of France - Italy - Russia or Saudi Arabia and I will recline in my LavyBoy with 'Jimmy and Friends' commenting about how wrong it is.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 7:59 AM
Opposition leaders go into hiding as poll result is delayed
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/opposition-leaders-go-into-hiding-as-poll-result-is-delayed-803098.html
Good account from inside Harare
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:23 AM
The same evidence that Bush saw is the same that Clinton - Kerry - Kennedy and Nancy and Harry saw and they supported the invasion.
Moderatelad, you should know by now this is an outright lie.
You didn't make it up and maybe you don't know any better, but you're spreading a lie.
For now we'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I will never support any military action for any reason on foreign soil.
Are you telling us the truth?
Or are you just being sarcastic?
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:33 AM
Election rigged for Robert Mugabe, says official
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/29/wzim129.xml
The official at the Central Intelligence Organisation said the rigging was planned earlier this year, using the flawed voters' roll and collaboration from electoral commission staff to produce victory for Mr Mugabe.
The number of polling stations has also mysteriously increased from 8,212 in early March to 9,400 this week, leaving election monitors thinly spread.
Opposition activists said that there would be no need for ballot box stuffing or double voting. They say the results will be manufactured and that it would take weeks or even months for irregularities to be investigated.
The MDC has set up its command centre at a Harare hotel and will be announcing results coming from its polling officers around the country.
This is an attempt to prevent the expected "rigging through announcement" by Mr Mugabe's hand-picked election officials.
The intelligence official said he expected that Mr Mugabe would be sworn in as soon as results were broadcast, perhaps tomorrow.
The security forces said they were on high alert to prevent the sort of violence seen in Kenya at the start of the year.
______________
Sounds like they've taken a page out of the GOP playbook.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:48 AM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:33 AM
'...by now this is an outright lie...'
Well then the Big Four are lying too. All the documentation that Bush had, the same info was in a room at the capital for congress to view.
Are you telling us the truth?
Yes - the way I feel now and the way Nancy and Harry have made hay out of this for their own gain and putting our military at risk. You're darn right I will not support any future military action. I support Clinton in the Balkins when friends of mine said that they only reason he attacked was to keep Monica and all off the front page. I told them no Pres. would ever stoop that low. With the way Wallis and Co. have written about Bush - I now know I was wrong. (I believe that Clinton could have attacked to keep Monica off the front pages)
'Or are you just being sarcastic?
A little sarcastic - just extremly disappointed that so many here hold conservatives to a higher standard and give liberals a bye. (Goose and Gander)
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 10:43 AM
Africa with all it rich resorces has been ganderd by europeans from other nations.. All the casinos and hotels built in Zimbabwe are products of contactors from America and other countries.. If the greed of America and other countries would leave the country,and leave some of the money behind for the people,the people can farm and work for themselves. Dictators are puppets for other world leaders.
Posted by: Jay | April 1, 2008 10:50 AM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:48 AM
Mugabe - are we surprized? The UN still funds him and the world looks the other way. Well - you can't fix stupid.
Sounds like they've taken a page out of the GOP playbook.
You know - I wish just one of the liberals that keep saying these things had the stones to take it to court. They didn't because they knew there was no proof - it wasn't true. Then again - it sounds like they have taken a page out to the Minnesota DFL Playbook. It you say a lie loud and long - they will believe it.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 10:50 AM
Mugabe - are we surprized? The UN still funds him and the world looks the other way. Well - you can't fix stupid.
Are you saying the UN supports Mugabe just because they provide humanitarian food and medical assistance?
Do you think the world should stand by and watch the people of Zimbabwe starve and die of aids?
Did you know the life expectancy of Zimbabweans is now 35 years?
What is more stupid?
The UN or your attitude.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:08 AM
All the documentation that Bush had, the same info was in a room at the capital for congress to view.
You just lost the benefit of the doubt over lying about the Bush administration's cooked intelligence regarding WMD's in Saddam's Iraq.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:13 AM
You know - I wish just one of the liberals that keep saying these things had the stones to take it to court. They didn't because they knew there was no proof - it wasn't true.
You haven't been paying much attention, Moderatelad.
You won't hear anything about this by listening to the GOP noise machine.
First criminal convictions from Ohio's stolen 2004 election confirm recount was rigged
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2379
This is just one of many examples of GOP election fraud cases working their way through the courts.
The wheels of justice turn slowly.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:26 AM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:08 AM
Are you saying the UN supports Mugabe just because they provide humanitarian food and medical assistance?
The UN and world community have poured more money into Mugabe over the past decade than Zimbabwe's GNP. He had finacally raped that country and the world looks the other way.
Do you think the world should stand by and watch the people of Zimbabwe starve and die of aids?
YES - people are dying but the money they get from the UN and all just goes to underwrite Mugabe. So - we keep give the money and they keep dying? Maybe if we cut him off - yes things would get worse but he might be put out of office so that the humanitarian aid can get to the people that really need it. What sanctions has the UN put up against the Mugabe Gov't. (I can not think of one - they are blind as to what is going on)
What is more stupid?
The UN or your attitude.
I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the tree. But for the UN to keep doing the same old same old - now that is stupid.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 11:33 AM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:26 AM
The wheels of justice turn slowly.
If the wheels keep turning - prosecute to the full extent of the law.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 11:35 AM
I know that I am not the brightest bulb on the tree. But for the UN to keep doing the same old same old - now that is stupid.
I don't think you really know what the UN is doing in Zimbabwe right now.
Do you think Anne Junod is stupid for having spent last summer volunteering in Zambia and Zimbabwe with the U.K. based volunteer organization African Impact?
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:43 AM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:43 AM
'...think Anne Junod is stupid for having spent last summer volunteering in Zambia and Zimbabwe...'
Not at all - someone has to try to something that might work. My sister in the UK had some dealings with this organization and her self has gone to Africa to work in various countries. But this is a UK organization - not the UN.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 12:28 PM
Barclays' millions help to prop up Mugabe regime
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/jan/28/accounts.Zimbabwenews
Three British firms provide key finance, allowing the Zimbabwe leader to defy world condemnation.
Barclays bank is helping to bankroll President Robert Mugabe's regime in Zimbabwe, providing millions of pounds of support for his vilified land reforms, The Observer can reveal. Mugabe's opponents describe the bank's activities as a 'disgrace' and an 'insult' to the millions who have suffered human rights abuses.
Barclays is the most high-profile of three British-based financial institutions, which, in total, have provided more than $1bn in direct and indirect funding to Mugabe's administration. The other two companies are Standard Chartered Bank and the insurance firm Old Mutual. According to influential newsletter Africa Confidential, that first disclosed the Barclays' loans, the British organisations provide an economic lifeline keeping Mugabe's regime afloat.
A spokesman for Zimbabwe's main opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change, likened the bank's actions to its support of South Africa's apartheid regime and urged a boycott.
_________
Isn't Barclay's a rock solid conservative financial institution?
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 2:18 PM
China is to withdraw backing for Mugabe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/31/wchina231.xml
Robert Mugabe is to lose vital support from one of his few remaining allies on the world stage, China.
One of the Zimbabwe president's oldest diplomatic friends, China yesterday told Lord Malloch Brown, the Foreign Office minister, that it was dropping all assistance except humanitarian aid.
President Mugabe was given a warm welcome in Beijing two years ago by President Hu Jintao. But attitudes have changed.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 2:28 PM
How to save Zimbabwe after Mugabe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/04/01/do0102.xml
By far the most impressive building in central Harare is the headquarters of the organisation most responsible for eviscerating Zimbabwe's economy. Inside its spotless tower block of plate glass, the Reserve Bank's sole function is to cause hyperinflation by printing the money that keeps Robert Mugabe's bankrupt regime afloat.
By seizing white-owned farms and handing them out to his cronies, without troubling to provide them with finance, farming equipment, training or even title deeds, Mr Mugabe wrecked commercial agriculture.
By unleashing violence against his political opponents, he frightened away tourists. And by passing a law allowing the seizure of 51 per cent of their shares, he forced mining companies to abandon all exploration and investment.
So Zimbabwe's economic collapse came about as a result of government policy. Consequently, Mr Mugabe's tax revenues have been wiped out and he cannot pay his bills.
The first step that must be taken is to stabilise the economy and curb hyperinflation. The Africa department of the International Monetary Fund, led by Abdoulaye Bio-Tchané, will take charge of this effort.
Reducing inflation means the government must stop printing money. This can only happen if someone else pays its bills. So the IMF will probably agree an immediate injection of funds to keep Zimbabwe going while the Reserve Bank turns off its printing presses.
This should curb inflation in a matter of months. But a full stabilisation package will have to go much further.
Under Mr Mugabe, Zimbabwe's government grew ever larger and made no effort to curb its spending. His successor will have to reduce the size of the civil service and privatise the publicly owned companies, which are little more than shells. In particular, he will have to slash military spending, which presently exceeds the health budget.
Mr Mugabe promised to do all this in 1999, in exchange for an IMF balance of payments facility of US$193 million. Few were surprised when he broke his promise and the IMF responded by ending its support.
Zimbabwe's next president should look at the letter of intent that Mr Mugabe signed with the IMF nine years ago. In return for funds going beyond immediate stabilisation, these promises will have to be kept.
Economic recovery will also require a new currency. The best illustration of the Zimbabwe dollar's headlong collapse is that eight years ago, Z$14 million would have bought a mansion in Harare. Three weeks ago, it was enough to buy one can of Diet Coke.
By yesterday, however, a can of Diet Coke cost Z$56 million.
With inflation under control and a new currency introduced, Zimbabwe's new government can look to longer term recovery. Commercial agriculture will be the key.
Some white farmers must be allowed to return and Mr Mugabe's disastrous land ownership laws, which make all agricultural land the property of the state, must be repealed.
With private title deeds restored, farmers will able to raise finance and resume production. If Zimbabwe can shake off its reputation for violence, tourists might return in large numbers to a country that boasts teeming wildlife and the Victoria Falls.
With inflation under control and predatory ownership laws repealed, the mines might also revive.
Outside donors, notably the British government and the World Bank, will have to provide the cash to restore Zimbabwe's tattered infrastructure. The inexpressible tragedy is that even if all this takes place - and it could take years - Zimbabwe will only return to the position it enjoyed a decade ago.
Mr Mugabe's legacy could scarcely be more pitiful.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 2:40 PM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 11:26 AM
The county prosecutors have not yet alleged vote fraud. No do they say mishandling the recount affected the election's outcome. Dreamer's defense attorney, Roger Synenberg, said the defendants "were just doing [the recount] the way they were always doing it."
Interesting reading - there is so much inuendo thoughout the article, at times it is hard to follow.
'...the way they were always doing it.'
Sounds like they have done it 'this way' in the past regardless of which party or canidate won.
Is this site owned by the Daily Kost?
Will be interesting to see how it plays out and who ends up where after the dust settles.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 2:43 PM
Mick,
Thanks for being curious enough to read the story about 2004 election fraud in Ohio.
As I said, this is only one of many examples of GOP election fraud, all of which taken together, were enough to tip both 2000 and 2004 in Bush's favor.
Of course, in 2000 it also took the connivance of the US Supreme Court to install the Bush administration in power.
The information about GOP election fraud is out there in plain sight but you have to desire the truth before you can discover it.
In this case, the truth is extremely painful for American conservatives to accept, which is why the corporate media ignores GOP election fraud.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 2:51 PM
OK - the topic is Zimbabwe and Mugabe. And I believe that the US will just stay out of the way like they have done so well in the past. So - nothing will be done by the way. So - let's get on our way to a new subject.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 3:55 PM
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 3:55 PM
Correction - US should be UN.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 4:06 PM
The truth about election fraud is painful.
Nothing to see here.
Move along please.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 4:08 PM
Election fraud in Zimbabwe - Helen Keller could see that. How do you think Mugabe has been able to stay in power?
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 4:34 PM
After reading breaking news out of Zimbabwe, it appears that Mugabe, knowing he will lose, is cooking the vote to deny the MDC the 51% they need for a victory and thereby force a runoff election in 3 weeks.
There's a third party - a breakaway from Mugabe's party - that drew off about 10% of the vote.
These voters will vote MDC in the event of a runoff election and Mugabe's election fraud would fail decisively.
Mugabe is just buying time.
I hope it doesn't go violent, but reports are that Mugabe's military has had it with the incompetence and corruption of his regime.
Too bad America didn't have Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) in 2000.
If we had, the Supreme court would've had no justification to step in and award Bush the Presidency.
I'm convinced IRV would have saved America from eight disastrous years under the criminally incompetent Bush junta.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 6:11 PM
Of course, conservatives could say that Instant Runoff Voting would have saved them from Clinton.
Do you think we could push a bipartisan IRV Bill through Congress?
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 6:15 PM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 6:11 PM
Part of the reason that the US Supreme Court had to set in is that the FL Supreme Court started to rewrite election law. The FL is very specific in how to handle a recount and it was not the way that Gore wanted it done. The state has so many days for a recount and then the vote as to be ratified. If you don't like the law - then work to change it but you can't change it midstream.
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 1, 2008 8:40 PM
Would you support Instant Runoff Voting legislation?
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 8:53 PM
Tsvangirai says he beat Mugabe
http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=2974
HARARE – Zimbabwe’s opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai said on Tuesday he beat President Robert Mugabe but he rejected media reports that he was negotiating the veteran leader’s exit with the ruling ZANU PF party.
Tsvangirai told journalists in Harare Tuesday evening that his Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) party could not enter into negotiations or deals before the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) declares the winner of last Saturday’s presidential ballot.
“Lets not be led by speculation, there are no discussions (with ZANU PF) let's wait for ZEC to make a statement (announcing winner),” Tsvangirai responded when asked whether he or his MDC party was talking to Mugabe’s party.
“There is no way the MDC will enter into negotiations or deals before the constitutional announcement (of a winner by ZEC),” added Tsvangirai, who also made it clear he would not declare himself winner but would wait for the elctoral commission to announce final poll results.
Rumour is strong in Harare that preliminary negotiations for Mugabe’s smooth exit are underway and were initiated by ZANU PF following strong projections that Tsvangirai would beat Mugabe in the election but fall short of the 51 percent voted needed to avoid a runoff.
Neither Mugabe nor ZANU PF has commented on the speculation even after international media circulated reports of Mugabe’s pending resignation across the globe.
Tsvangirai said results collated by the MDC showed the party winning comfortably against ZANU PF and said he himself had also won with a big enough margin to avoid a runoff against Mugabe.
“We are above the constitutional requirement for a runoff,” he said.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 9:59 PM
"Part of the reason that the US Supreme Court had to set in is that the FL Supreme Court started to rewrite election law. The FL is very specific in how to handle a recount and it was not the way that Gore wanted it done. The state has so many days for a recount and then the vote as to be ratified."
...
By the way, Moderatelad, you're confused about the way it went down.
Find a reliable source, read an accurate account.
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 10:15 PM
Posted by: justintime | April 1, 2008 10:15 PM
How about a lawyer that was hired by the State of FL to assist them in the recount so that they law was followed. Hear him talk about what was going on and how the law in FL was written. Oh - by the way, he is also a member of the DFL party in MN. (not some conservative hack like you believe they are)
Blessings -
.
Posted by: Moderatelad | April 2, 2008 8:16 AM
"By the way, Moderatelad, you're confused about the way it went down.
Find a reliable source, read an accurate account."
If Mod'lad reads an accurate account, he'll charge that it's biased. Then he'll link it to CNN and the Daily "Kost" (sic). You're wasting your time, justin (no pun intended).
Posted by: carl copas | April 2, 2008 11:16 AM
Mick,
You live in Seattle?
Regarding the great Washington State Governor's election dispute of 2004:
You should learn about both sides of this episode.
Our Secretary of State, Sam Reed, a long time Republican, would be able to give you the straight story. After all he was right in the middle of it.
It'll be interesting to watch this year's race between the same two candidates, incumbent Christine Gregoire and challenger Dino Rossi.
In my opinion, Gregoire performed very well over the last 4 years and deserves another term.
Dino Rossi is a real estate developer with ultra conservative ideology and a questionable track record.
Posted by: justintime | April 2, 2008 12:44 PM
Ronald Reagan and Pat Robertson just LOVED Mugabe. Called him a fine Christian man and great ruler. Kinda makes ya wonder...
Posted by: I and I | April 2, 2008 10:13 PM
Modlad: "Kennedy and Nancy and Harry saw and they supported the invasion."
Ho, ho, ho. Kennedy did not support the invasion, nor did (if I recall correctly) Nancy Pelosi. Nor did half the Democrats in the U.S. Senate.
Posted by: I and I | April 2, 2008 10:19 PM
Pretty much ALL of the Republicans in Congress supported Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq.
I can't remember any Republicans that were opposed to the war.
Posted by: justintime | April 2, 2008 10:50 PM
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