The monologue of the Religious Right is over and a new conversation has begun! Join the God's Politics dialogue with Jim Wallis and friends Brian McLaren, Diana Butler Bass, Becky Garrison, Gareth Higgins, Shane Claiborne, Mary Nelson, Gabriel Salguero, Tony Campolo, and others.
350 leaders under the age of 30 met at Sojourners' Justice Revival in Columbus, Ohio, to discuss social justice and activism. Shane Claiborne of The Simple Way spoke to the young leaders. Watch it:
Our Lord's Justice is always based on helping those who are the least of these. Jesus relates that the faith that is most precious to Him involves extending Christ's Love to widows and orphans. In light of this awesome truth, it is easy to see that the foundation of justice, is justice for the unborn. If we forget the Sanctity of all Human Life from the time of conception to the time of old age, it opens up the door for abortion and euthanasia, yielding a "justice revival" that is simply not real. Rather than Left leaning political agendas (your calling Ted Kennedy a "pro-life Democrat" even though he has 100% voted Anti-Life in Congress), let's go to the poor like many many others have before your group existed, and "Do small things with great love and change the World" (Mother Teresa). One way is to support women and pregnancy care centers, moving America from a pro-death culture to a pro-adoption and pro-life culture. Another way this can be done is by electing government officials that will show God's justice by helping to overturn Roe vs. Wade. When you say I want to make abortion rare, you are actually saying, "I want to make the murder of innocent unborn children rare." It's simply nonsense! Ending infanticide, now that's real justice!
The sanctity of human life needs to be our foundation of justice. Out of this foundation, will come the true love of God to feed the poor, cloth the naked, and alleviate the great suffering around the world.
God Bless,
Stephen Murray
Irwin, Ohio
Posted by: Stephen Murray | April 19, 2008 1:19 PM
Shane, think how it would sound if you lived during the holocaust in Germany, as my relatives did, and you stood up and said, "We'd like to make sure that the murder of Jews is a rare thing." You don't stop mass murder by desiring to make it rare, you end genocide completely by fighting it as the moral evil that it is. This isn't Darfur's genocide on another continent. This is a uniquely American genocide, taking place to the tune of 4400 a day while Christian college students fancy themselves as "change agents" for the world. Charity begins at home. We have nearly 50 million dead babies, Shane. There is no other population group in America that has known this kind of extermination. Everything else pales by comparison. If you don't even have the right to life, all other human rights are irrelevant. You ask us to accept your presuppositions and blindly follow you on to your conclusions. I question many of your starting points about war, the environment, poverty and gay rights. Wallis and you have railed against the politicizing of evangelical Christianity into the Religious Right. How is it any better for Christians to be indoctrinated into the Religious Left, which you indisputably are? Is it because you think your right and the Religious Right is wrong? Pardon the pun. If so, by what standard?
Posted by: Val | April 19, 2008 3:00 PM
Abortion is murder, but making criminals out of foolish woman is not a very compassionate solution. To be pro-life means a lot more than being anti-abortion, like fighting tobacco, junk food, fast driving, pesticides, herbicides, global warming, and on and on and on. If you are merely anti-abortion then you are not pro-life you are anti-sex.
Posted by: Oak | April 20, 2008 12:31 PM
The two 'anti-shane' posts here reveal more about their author's own insecurities and and fears than they do about The Justice Revival.
I don't EVER remember hearing or reading of Claiborne, Wallis, or anyone else in the movement saying that abortion was a good thing, yet that seems to be the implicit complaint here.
The fact is that this rediculous debate of 'Life' versus 'Choice' hasn't saved babies, and it never will.
It's time to quit running to the government to solve our problems (and stop blaming the government for our problems).
There is a better way to do this.
Posted by: Artist4Christ | April 20, 2008 12:45 PM
I think we often miss the point when we talk about "revival." When most people think about it they think of some outward manifestations about moral behavior -- but those are only the fruits. Really, however, it has to do with the church in general and Christians in particular realizing that we've missed something that God was trying to tell us and thus bless us.
Basically, we need to get on our knees and humbly inquire of God where we have fallen short of His demands. And then we need to do it. If that happens we will have the authority to speak out against evil and true revival will result.
And, as pro-life as I am personally, simply outlawing abortion won't change a thing. After all, they don't deal with the human heart.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 20, 2008 11:34 PM
But I still vote for pro life candidates.
Outlawing murder does not stop murder or does it stop those who commit murder in their hearts.
I also believe in outlawing abortion. However, too many believers have isolated abortion from bad family dynamics, which are in fact crucial, in the belief that if abortion were outlawed all our problems would be solved. Or if the gays were driven back into the closet. These have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 21, 2008 8:46 AM
But I can not give one for the other, which leaves me out of republican politics most of the time, and not even close to accepting democratic politics.
The issue isn't at all partisan politics -- in fact, probably a majority of registered Republicans, including a number of heavy hitters, are pro-choice and the anti-abortion contingent in the Democratic Party is now being heard. My point is that you don't have to be a Christian to be "pro-life," and I believe it's important that we get at the roots of the abortion issue in order to address it. It's so much easier to try to pass laws, demonize women's groups and denounce doctors than to do that.
Spiritual revival represents a heart change that leads to instruction from the Scriptures and then changed actions, and it starts with the people of God recognizing just how far we have strayed from Him.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 21, 2008 3:34 PM
'Pro-Life' as used by most self-avowed advocates is hypocrisy. It's been called 'Pro-Life until birth', because it says, and does, nothing for the children after they're born.
(This would cost money that belongs in the pockets– ask them– of the corporate CEOs and their big stockholders who own our government and our politicians.)
True pro-life would certainly oppose abortion, but true pro=life would provide prenatal care for all children, and adequate-to-generous medical care, nutrition, clothing, housing, and education to all children.
One way to do this would be through true family values, by making it possible for every person who wanted it– 99.999…% of Americans– to have a job which would pay adequately so that person could keep a partner home with the kids.
Never under capitalist greed; never till Kingdom come and the Son of David sit on the Throne of David. Nevertheless He taught us to pray 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth'– here and now in our lives– 'as in Heaven'.
Posted by: Ted Voth Jr | April 21, 2008 4:14 PM
"Dreads?!? C'mon, dude! Dreads look silly enough on black people!
I love dreads. Wish I could grow em, but my hair is thinning out fast enough as it is w/o adding the weight of shoulder-length hair pulling on the follicles.
What's really bad is these aging balding hippies who drive Volvos and drink Fair Trade java and have a tiny little ponytail about 3 inches long. And don't get me started on the millions of clones who sported buzzcuts and goatees during the Grunge era of the 90s.
Posted by: carl copas | April 21, 2008 6:28 PM
I went to the final night of the Justice Revival. I have some serious doubts about the political intentions of people involved. First let me say that I do believe that christians need to embrace more social aspects of the political spectrum. I think the christian-right has largely done a lot of damage to the general publics perception of Yeshua. At the core of Christ's message and life was his service and ministry to the poor and rejected. I believe that this is pivotal. But, it should be out of LOVE. Love for Jesus and love for our brothers and sisters and it all should bring glory to God.
So back to the revival. I went the final night and I left feeling that something was deeply missing from the event and that was Jesus. I felt, along with several others that Martin Luther King was more glorified than Christ. I feel that the Justice Revival does not put Christ at the center. Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly.
Posted by: brenden | April 21, 2008 11:19 PM
"Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly."
Helping people in itself is glorifying Jesus. Jesus Christ is the only agent of good, and anywhere we get near "good" comes directly from Him.
My two cents.
Posted by: Robb | April 22, 2008 9:53 AM
I felt, along with several others that Martin Luther King was more glorified than Christ. I feel that the Justice Revival does not put Christ at the center. Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly.
King was one of the first people who showed me the way to Christ -- however, doing so in his context was not "politically correct" in those days, so enamored were "conservative" Christians were with getting their doctrine and personal devotional life right. I read an article in Christianity Today some years ago about the time when he and his right-hand man Ralph Abernathy were speaking at Wheaton College, and the students were completely clueless as to what they represented.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 22, 2008 10:19 AM
Brenden, I was there the first night (last Wednesday), but couldn't go Thursday or Friday. I can assure you that Jesus was front and center on that first night. Although I cannot say for sure, I would think that the events on Thursday and Friday built upon the foundation that was laid on Wednesday.
Peace,
Posted by: Don | April 22, 2008 5:40 PM
I recently took 14 of our senior high to a weekend retreat at which Shane Claiborne was the main speaker. Over 300 youth and adult youth workers participated in this event and everyone I talked with about it on site and later was impacted significantly by Shane's words.
Jesus was always the center of his remarks. His main message out of that center was to urge the youth be involved in helping those in need. His testimony about his own experiences of working with Mother Teresa and now in Philadelphia with the homeless were powerful. It was obvious to the youth that he practices what he preaches.
One sign of his influence was that the youth donated over $ 3,400 to the Nothing But Nets anti-malaria campaign. Each youth group before leaving made a covenant to be involved in a caring ministry of their choice back home.
With regard to judging the message of Justice Revival on one night, as a preacher I would not want my theology to be judged on just one of my sermons; I cannot say all that I believe in one service. And if I included in every sermon the core of my beliefs I would never have the time to talk adequately about other important things.
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Comments
Our Lord's Justice is always based on helping those who are the least of these. Jesus relates that the faith that is most precious to Him involves extending Christ's Love to widows and orphans. In light of this awesome truth, it is easy to see that the foundation of justice, is justice for the unborn. If we forget the Sanctity of all Human Life from the time of conception to the time of old age, it opens up the door for abortion and euthanasia, yielding a "justice revival" that is simply not real. Rather than Left leaning political agendas (your calling Ted Kennedy a "pro-life Democrat" even though he has 100% voted Anti-Life in Congress), let's go to the poor like many many others have before your group existed, and "Do small things with great love and change the World" (Mother Teresa). One way is to support women and pregnancy care centers, moving America from a pro-death culture to a pro-adoption and pro-life culture. Another way this can be done is by electing government officials that will show God's justice by helping to overturn Roe vs. Wade. When you say I want to make abortion rare, you are actually saying, "I want to make the murder of innocent unborn children rare." It's simply nonsense! Ending infanticide, now that's real justice!
The sanctity of human life needs to be our foundation of justice. Out of this foundation, will come the true love of God to feed the poor, cloth the naked, and alleviate the great suffering around the world.
God Bless,
Stephen Murray
Irwin, Ohio
Posted by: Stephen Murray | April 19, 2008 1:19 PM
Shane, think how it would sound if you lived during the holocaust in Germany, as my relatives did, and you stood up and said, "We'd like to make sure that the murder of Jews is a rare thing." You don't stop mass murder by desiring to make it rare, you end genocide completely by fighting it as the moral evil that it is. This isn't Darfur's genocide on another continent. This is a uniquely American genocide, taking place to the tune of 4400 a day while Christian college students fancy themselves as "change agents" for the world. Charity begins at home. We have nearly 50 million dead babies, Shane. There is no other population group in America that has known this kind of extermination. Everything else pales by comparison. If you don't even have the right to life, all other human rights are irrelevant. You ask us to accept your presuppositions and blindly follow you on to your conclusions. I question many of your starting points about war, the environment, poverty and gay rights. Wallis and you have railed against the politicizing of evangelical Christianity into the Religious Right. How is it any better for Christians to be indoctrinated into the Religious Left, which you indisputably are? Is it because you think your right and the Religious Right is wrong? Pardon the pun. If so, by what standard?
Posted by: Val | April 19, 2008 3:00 PM
Abortion is murder, but making criminals out of foolish woman is not a very compassionate solution. To be pro-life means a lot more than being anti-abortion, like fighting tobacco, junk food, fast driving, pesticides, herbicides, global warming, and on and on and on. If you are merely anti-abortion then you are not pro-life you are anti-sex.
Posted by: Oak | April 20, 2008 12:31 PM
The two 'anti-shane' posts here reveal more about their author's own insecurities and and fears than they do about The Justice Revival.
I don't EVER remember hearing or reading of Claiborne, Wallis, or anyone else in the movement saying that abortion was a good thing, yet that seems to be the implicit complaint here.
The fact is that this rediculous debate of 'Life' versus 'Choice' hasn't saved babies, and it never will.
It's time to quit running to the government to solve our problems (and stop blaming the government for our problems).
There is a better way to do this.
Posted by: Artist4Christ | April 20, 2008 12:45 PM
I think we often miss the point when we talk about "revival." When most people think about it they think of some outward manifestations about moral behavior -- but those are only the fruits. Really, however, it has to do with the church in general and Christians in particular realizing that we've missed something that God was trying to tell us and thus bless us.
Basically, we need to get on our knees and humbly inquire of God where we have fallen short of His demands. And then we need to do it. If that happens we will have the authority to speak out against evil and true revival will result.
And, as pro-life as I am personally, simply outlawing abortion won't change a thing. After all, they don't deal with the human heart.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 20, 2008 11:34 PM
But I still vote for pro life candidates.
Outlawing murder does not stop murder or does it stop those who commit murder in their hearts.
I also believe in outlawing abortion. However, too many believers have isolated abortion from bad family dynamics, which are in fact crucial, in the belief that if abortion were outlawed all our problems would be solved. Or if the gays were driven back into the closet. These have nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 21, 2008 8:46 AM
But I can not give one for the other, which leaves me out of republican politics most of the time, and not even close to accepting democratic politics.
The issue isn't at all partisan politics -- in fact, probably a majority of registered Republicans, including a number of heavy hitters, are pro-choice and the anti-abortion contingent in the Democratic Party is now being heard. My point is that you don't have to be a Christian to be "pro-life," and I believe it's important that we get at the roots of the abortion issue in order to address it. It's so much easier to try to pass laws, demonize women's groups and denounce doctors than to do that.
Spiritual revival represents a heart change that leads to instruction from the Scriptures and then changed actions, and it starts with the people of God recognizing just how far we have strayed from Him.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 21, 2008 3:34 PM
'Pro-Life' as used by most self-avowed advocates is hypocrisy. It's been called 'Pro-Life until birth', because it says, and does, nothing for the children after they're born.
(This would cost money that belongs in the pockets– ask them– of the corporate CEOs and their big stockholders who own our government and our politicians.)
True pro-life would certainly oppose abortion, but true pro=life would provide prenatal care for all children, and adequate-to-generous medical care, nutrition, clothing, housing, and education to all children.
One way to do this would be through true family values, by making it possible for every person who wanted it– 99.999…% of Americans– to have a job which would pay adequately so that person could keep a partner home with the kids.
Never under capitalist greed; never till Kingdom come and the Son of David sit on the Throne of David. Nevertheless He taught us to pray 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth'– here and now in our lives– 'as in Heaven'.
Posted by: Ted Voth Jr | April 21, 2008 4:14 PM
"Dreads?!? C'mon, dude! Dreads look silly enough on black people!
I love dreads. Wish I could grow em, but my hair is thinning out fast enough as it is w/o adding the weight of shoulder-length hair pulling on the follicles.
What's really bad is these aging balding hippies who drive Volvos and drink Fair Trade java and have a tiny little ponytail about 3 inches long. And don't get me started on the millions of clones who sported buzzcuts and goatees during the Grunge era of the 90s.
Posted by: carl copas | April 21, 2008 6:28 PM
I went to the final night of the Justice Revival. I have some serious doubts about the political intentions of people involved. First let me say that I do believe that christians need to embrace more social aspects of the political spectrum. I think the christian-right has largely done a lot of damage to the general publics perception of Yeshua. At the core of Christ's message and life was his service and ministry to the poor and rejected. I believe that this is pivotal. But, it should be out of LOVE. Love for Jesus and love for our brothers and sisters and it all should bring glory to God.
So back to the revival. I went the final night and I left feeling that something was deeply missing from the event and that was Jesus. I felt, along with several others that Martin Luther King was more glorified than Christ. I feel that the Justice Revival does not put Christ at the center. Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly.
Posted by: brenden | April 21, 2008 11:19 PM
"Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly."
Helping people in itself is glorifying Jesus. Jesus Christ is the only agent of good, and anywhere we get near "good" comes directly from Him.
My two cents.
Posted by: Robb | April 22, 2008 9:53 AM
I felt, along with several others that Martin Luther King was more glorified than Christ. I feel that the Justice Revival does not put Christ at the center. Helping people is wonderful, but if you aren't doing it to love and glorify Jesus then it is all folly.
King was one of the first people who showed me the way to Christ -- however, doing so in his context was not "politically correct" in those days, so enamored were "conservative" Christians were with getting their doctrine and personal devotional life right. I read an article in Christianity Today some years ago about the time when he and his right-hand man Ralph Abernathy were speaking at Wheaton College, and the students were completely clueless as to what they represented.
Posted by: Rick Nowlin | April 22, 2008 10:19 AM
Brenden, I was there the first night (last Wednesday), but couldn't go Thursday or Friday. I can assure you that Jesus was front and center on that first night. Although I cannot say for sure, I would think that the events on Thursday and Friday built upon the foundation that was laid on Wednesday.
Peace,
Posted by: Don | April 22, 2008 5:40 PM
I recently took 14 of our senior high to a weekend retreat at which Shane Claiborne was the main speaker. Over 300 youth and adult youth workers participated in this event and everyone I talked with about it on site and later was impacted significantly by Shane's words.
Jesus was always the center of his remarks. His main message out of that center was to urge the youth be involved in helping those in need. His testimony about his own experiences of working with Mother Teresa and now in Philadelphia with the homeless were powerful. It was obvious to the youth that he practices what he preaches.
One sign of his influence was that the youth donated over $ 3,400 to the Nothing But Nets anti-malaria campaign. Each youth group before leaving made a covenant to be involved in a caring ministry of their choice back home.
With regard to judging the message of Justice Revival on one night, as a preacher I would not want my theology to be judged on just one of my sermons; I cannot say all that I believe in one service. And if I included in every sermon the core of my beliefs I would never have the time to talk adequately about other important things.
Posted by: Mike Jones | April 23, 2008 12:52 PM
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