Derek,
I am continually amazed at how folks react to such a view of Jesus and his message. When you came to the campus where I used to be Campus Minister, you offered this picture of Jesus which left me to sort it out for some folks whose picture was quite different. (Let's just say, I took it on the chin after your last visit.) What strikes me most about this portrait of Jesus is that its labeled as the "alternative" view of Jesus, but seems closest to the Jesus of the gospels. The "white, middle-class Republican" Jesus, as it seems to me, shows up nowhere in Scripture. The "transformed" image of Jesus allows us to get away with murder and so much else. But, the alternative Jesus, the real Jesus, holds us to a standard that goes so much against the grain, we run the risk (or have the promise) of getting a few splinters in our hands.

I am glad you're willing to take that risk and I was happy to take one for the team once you poked some of those sacred cows.

Peace,
Terry-Michael Newell
www.terrymichaelnewell.com

Posted by: Terry-Michael Newell | May 15, 2008 12:57 PM

"The "white, middle-class Republican" Jesus, as it seems to me, shows up nowhere in Scripture. "

Did somebody on your campus call Jesus a "white, middle-class Republican"? If not, then where does the phrase come from? Perhaps your "taking it on the chin" was simply an averse reaction to the assumptions you made regarding the faith of some of your students.

Posted by: kevin s. | May 15, 2008 2:59 PM

kevin s,

"White middle-class Republican" is a line from the Derek Webb song "A King and a Kingdom". You can find it on the superb "Mockingbird" album.

Posted by: Scot McClamma | May 15, 2008 3:42 PM

Did somebody on your campus call Jesus a "white, middle-class Republican"?

That was his point -- such a cultural context is often assumed among middle-class white "Christians," who are often offended when someone says that He doesn't subscribe to those values.

Posted by: Rick Nowlin | May 15, 2008 3:46 PM

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me."

It says He loved him, not lied to him.

Posted by: Dave Smith | May 15, 2008 5:25 PM

"if Jesus loves you he wants you to sell everything you have and live like shane claiborne."

Jesus loved him because he followed the commandments. The young man lacked because his heart was set on riches on earth. Sell all that he had meant to remove his heart from riches.

The meaning is obvious in the next verses: 22 But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, "How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!" 24 And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, "Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches F47 to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

But that's not the relevant part of the verse. "Follow Me" refers to acknowledging the Lord as God. Webb says it's "ridiculous".

Posted by: Dave Smith | May 15, 2008 5:58 PM

"Jesus loved him because he followed the commandments. "

I disagree. The passage does not say that he loved him because of his keeping to commandments. On thing to note is that Jesus does not say the man did not covet.

As the passage makes clear, the man did covet, and was willing to trade an opportunity to be a disciple for worldly goods.

There is a valuable lesson about worldly goods as idols.

When Derek says this is "ridiculous", I don't think he intends to say that it is wrong. Rather, it seems ridiculous from a worldly standard. That's what I took from it, anyway.

Posted by: kevin s. | May 15, 2008 6:09 PM

Ok - so you don't want to sell all you have and follow Him. Go out and buy a copy of Hudson Taylor's Spiritual Secret, or better yet, the two volumne set that goes into great detail of his life.

Give away a good chunk of what you have and try living on nothing but faith. I did for 8 years when I was in the ministry (admittedly, I did not have children at the time).

While I remember there was about a month in there when I cried every time I got in my car because I couldn't afford new brakes and they were dangerously bad. But I never did hit anything or anyone. And, obviously, that prayer was answered with a phone call from a dear friend. I can still remember every word of that conversation. You'd be stunned by all my stories. I still am.

It's amazing to see how God provides for you. It's life-changing to see how abundantly you can live. While I make considerably more money now, I still live pretty simply, but I never doubt (at least for very long) that God will provide for me.

Posted by: frankie | May 15, 2008 6:25 PM

actually David the verse itself gives you the answer. Could Jesus loving him have to do with the fact that the man really wanted to follow him, that the man really trusted Jesus to lead him to salvation or wanted him to?

That would make a little more sense than his blind obedience to obeying the law. jesus gave him a new law about selling his possessions and he could not do it. For some shunning evil can mean ending greed.

Following the law was not the beginning. If it were then Abraham would have been convicted before he slept with his sister (the law being eternal and all.) It's about faith and trust and the man showed that he trusted and loved God until God told him to give up his love of security and wealth.

p

Posted by: Payshun | May 15, 2008 7:03 PM

Loving your enemies, ridiculous.

Selling all, giving to the poor, ridiculous.

Taking up the cross daily, double ridiculous.

Praying for those who abuse you, ridiculous.

Turning the other cheek, ridiculous.

Preaching equipment: staff, sandals, one tunic, no iPod, no Nikes, no Power Bars-- sent on the road among strangers who may or may not be hostile to the message- ridiculous marketing plan.

Carry the occupying soldier's equipment an extra mile and making his job of subduing your own people, ridiculous.

Asking for everyone to receive daily bread, ridiculous.

Thinking that God is the Father of everyone, including illegal immigrants, middle class white republicans, preachers of black liberation theology, Islamic extremists, fundamentalists Christians, Christians who have "caved in" to "society's standards," evolutionists, creationists, homosexuals, drug dealers, SUV drivers- that God is the Father of such a bunch and to be honored by all, ridiculous.

Betrayed by an insider, abandoned by fair weather followers, tortured beyond the rules of the Geneva Convention, mocked, humiliated, urinating and defecating upon himself during the execution, dehyradration, sunburn, scourging, abandoned by his followers, desolating-dying-breaths, an agonizing separation from his Father, deep forsakenness---- ridiculous.

We face a choice: the tame Jesus who shares our politics and lifestyles and socio-economic and ethnic identity... OR... the wild, dangerous, untamed Jesus who shattered barriers, bringing the terrorist and the collaborator into the same ministry team of 12.

Rated R for ridiculous!

Posted by: Duh-sciple | May 15, 2008 8:03 PM

"He is saying that it's ridiculous to try and measure up to Christ."

Really? I count 18 occurrences in the New Testament of the Lord saying "Follow Me". It is more than a hint.

It is what it is.

Posted by: Dave Smith | May 15, 2008 8:57 PM

Are the verses in Mark really focused on the simple question of material property? Like so many of the sayings attributed to Jesus, the passage seems more clearly centered on the frustration of expectation. The rich young man clearly expected that the answer to his question, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" would be, "Come follow me." Instead, Jesus gave him an answer that forced him to take another perspective.

Eternal life, after all, can't be the end point of a linear process. It encompasses all that exists. One "gains" eternal life by losing the self as constructed in time and space. Thus, Jesus can't tell the man what to "do" in order to gain eternal life; what he tells him is to give up what binds him to the here and now.

That seems to be the crux of the matter on many of the questions that come up on this board. Our answers, our ideas about what to do and how to do it, so easily become possessions that bind us to a particular time and place. Having the right teacher, having the right politics, belonging to the right organization -- they're all part of the identity we construct in a specific culture, and they're no easier to surrender than material wealth.

A nice counterpoint to this Gospel passage is the old Eastern teaching story, in which a prosperous businessman sets out on a search for truth. After many journeys and false roads, he comes at last to a wise man at the top of a mountain and asks him to tell him the meaning of life. The wise man smiles at him. "I will tell you," he says, "but first go back and sell all you have and give the proceeds to the poor, then come back and ask again."

So the man goes back, dissolves his business, loses his family and friends in the process, and makes his way back to the mountain with great hardship and difficulty. Finally, he arrives, destitute and exhausted, to sit at the feet of the wise man. Now, he says, "I've done as you asked. I sold all I had. What is the meaning of life?" And the wise man says, "Life? Why, life is a bowl of cherries!"

The man is horrified. He says, "I lost everything I ever had and made this journey twice to have you sit there and tell me that life is a bowl of cherries?!" And the wise man furrows his brow and says, "You mean it ISN'T?"

Now, at one level, this story works as a kind of irritating joke. But it's interesting how closely it resembles Mark's tale of the rich man who came to Jesus. One might even say that the businessman in the teaching story was able to do precisely what the rich man couldn't, only to find himself disappointed anyhow.

The point, I'd say, was not the rich man's inability to follow Jesus' specific instructions; it was his unwillingness to bear the terrifying freedom Jesus was offering him. From his very first comment, Jesus was trying to free the seeker from his attachment to the person with the answer. "Don't call me good," he says, "only God is good." As the saying goes, when one is trying to give up the world, there is always one last thing to which one clings.

Once eternal life is traded for knowledge and identity, we stand with Adam and Eve, committed to oppositions that keep us tied to the particular form of identity our knowledge confers: between the right way and the wrong way; between eternal and temporal; between inner and outer; between us and them; between spirit and flesh. Even charity becomes a matter of denying what we want in order that others may have.

What Jesus asked the rich man to do was to close the door on that Original decision; to stop privileging his own limitations; to recognize the central Truth that binds all things to itself. And maybe, as the post suggests, that isn't finally possible; after all, Jesus loved the man despite his inability to give up who he was. But if we don't at least struggle with our own expectations, we're not really helping people to recognize what it means to be Christian; we're simply teaching them what it means to be like us.

Posted by: vinbl1952 | May 15, 2008 9:27 PM

It's not that Christianity has been tried and found impossible.

Christianity has been found difficult and therefore not tried.

Posted by: G.K. Chesterton | May 16, 2008 12:23 AM

"21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

The way I have always grasped that passage is this:

Jesus tells the young man to keep the commandments. The young man then says he has kept all the commandments (as if that is even possible)

When Jesus looks at him and loves him, the look I envision is the kind of look a mother gives her child who has just brought her breakfast in bed consisting of burned toast and dry cereal. He saw the young man's heart and his desire to do well. He also saw how far from the ideal the young man had acheived, and how clueless he was about what God's commandments actually require of us. But He loved him just as the mother who recognizes the love behind her child's attempt at breakfast in bed is a loving attempt at pleasing her.

Posted by: squeaky | May 16, 2008 2:01 AM

The title sets up the conflict for me: Following Jesus vs. Social Activism. Later these words bring greater concern: "Working for justice in all areas of society is not peripheral to the proclamation of the good news of Jesus; it is central. His message was not that of the individual salvation of men and women, but of the being made right of all things. While this certainly includes the stories of men and women that is such a small part of the whole."
How can we responsibly read the Gospel narrative and conclude that individual salvation is a small part of Jesus mission, or that meeting societal needs is somehow a different version of Jesus? They go hand in hand. I am well aware of the early twentieth century reaction to the social gospel by many churches and the damage this has done for the cause of Christ. In my personal journey as a Christ-follower, I am involved in repairing this damage to my church heritage by balancing social ministry and individual ministry. It was wrong for much of the Evangelical church to emphasize personal salvation to the exclusion of societal salvation. It is just as wrong now in an attempt to right the wrong, to emphasize societal justice issues to the exclusion of personal salvation. There was no conflict in Jesus when he said I have come to seek and save those who are lost (spoken at the home of Zacchaeus that Jesus had taken great effort to save) and his instruction for the disciples to pray for the kingdom of God to come on earth as it existed in heaven. There is no Christ follower vs. social activism. Lynn

Posted by: Lynn Nichols | May 16, 2008 8:26 AM

It seems we run into challenges and risk missing the point to the extent that we lean toward literal interpretations. There is a consistent theme that Jesus rarely taught or spoke in literal terms. What then could be the understanding that would help one grow in love?

"Go and sell all..." A more broad application of this teaching, which challenges all humankind every day is to release your attachment to whatever it is that you are holding onto. Recognize that what you think is important and great about you or your life is not so important and does not really add what you think it does to the Divine Life that is already within you. Release your attachments. Your attachments are blocking you from being transformed into a being of unconditional love.

See Meister Eckhart or Anthony DeMello if you want to find those who have a great ability to go deeper into the teachings of Jesus.

But understand that these do not make it easier than actually selling all of your possessions (the literal interpretation) but more difficult because one can be just as attached to his "identity" as a poor person as a wealthy person, a pastor, a rebel, a Christian, an atheist, etc. These attachments keep us from experiencing the Presence of God that is already within us and within ALL others. It's difficult to see in others, however, because we have our human categories and labels that reduce this other Being to an "enemy" or a "them" or an outsider or "not saved," a jerk, etc. All of these limit our ability to see and be as Jesus, the Christ did.

He taught and lived a message about how to see others and be toward others and how to see God but we ignore it in favor of talking about miracles, debating with other Christians, labeling those who disagree or practice other faiths, seeking feelings of superiority over those who think differently, and all other ways our animalistic aspects overshadow the Spirit within that Jesus was trying to point toward when he taught and lived his radical and paradoxical message. "Ridiculous," radical, paradoxical, whatever word helps one pause and remember to find the Divinity within and to see it in others so that one can remove the obstacles to unconditional love.

Posted by: Aaron | May 16, 2008 1:59 PM

"It seems we run into challenges and risk missing the point to the extent that we lean toward literal interpretations. "

Why is this so? A literal interpretation would simply give us a man claiming to have kept the commandments, and Jesus demonstrating this was not the case.

The lesson is that covetousness is an often overlooked sin, which gels with Christ's teaching that we are often blind to our own greed.

The aliteral interpretation leaves us with a vague sentiment in opposition to material goods, which is neither compelling nor applicable.

Posted by: kevin s. | May 16, 2008 6:37 PM

"Jesus Himself illustrated the impossibility of keeping the commandments perfectly when He said that if we so much as look on a person of the opposite sex with lust, we sinned with that person, even without the physical act."

And he also said in Matt 5:21,22 that if we are angry unjustifiably we would be subject to hellfire.

Why did the Lord say these things? I'll tell you what, if I do find my heart lusting or feelings of unjustified anger, I start to pray for the Lord's help. It's time for self examination and repentance because these are things of the will -- our motives and intentions.

Matt 19:23 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Posted by: Dave Smith | May 16, 2008 7:57 PM

My point is the spirit of the Ten Commandments. The Lord taught that lust of the heart and unjustified anger are as bad as adultery and murder. All of the commandments have a spiritual sense that adults should be aware of.

The young man kept the commandments in a literal sense. The Lord read his heart and found the young man lacking in three areas: he had his heart set on riches, he had not fought against lusts, and He had not acknowledged the Lord as God. Thus the three remedies: sell all you have, take up your cross and follow me.

The Lord was stating the Divine is absolute infinite Goodness.

As for the word 'perfect', I prefer the usage "wanting nothing necessary to completeness". In other words, completeness in Christ. Those who rest in the higher reality will have attained the same consciousness as Jesus. It's a spiritual concept the disciples and many others practice. See Teresa of Avila or John of the Cross. Search on contemplative prayer.

Everyone has the capability of being 'perfect' with this definition.

Because of the quote With God, all things are possible. It means man can not attain the kingdom of God on his own but with prayer, help from the Lord, CO OPERATION with the Lord and doing His will, he can.

Posted by: Dave Smith | May 17, 2008 4:42 AM

Everbody wants to follow what Jesus said, and did for that matter. Well Jesus said and did through the paul, peter, timothy, james, isaiah, jeremiah, david, and I could go on and on. Take the whole councel of God and not just what seems cool to pop culture. We are to transformed Not conformed. Let he who has ears, hear what the spirit says...

Posted by: Brian | May 18, 2008 2:36 PM

Jud,
Jesus did come to conquer sin and death but the church also needs to take great care at not becoming consumed by this world.

http://gospelism.org/2008/05/26/why-the-church-should-care-about-economics/

Paul also warned Timothy in 2nd Timothy 3:1 "You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times. 2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred." and
4:3 "For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."

We are compelled by the love of Christ to fight injustice and speak up for the poor and oppressed.

Anthony
gospelism.org

Posted by: Anthony | May 27, 2008 1:09 PM