The second quote could be used for other sad occasions--like 9/11. "Do not mourn too much, but do not sink into the forgetfulness of apathy." Amen! (Personally I think that although what happened on that day was unbelievably sad, it's as though the US has gotten into this rut and the country mourns for that day waay too much.)

Posted by: Annapurna Moffatt | May 1, 2008 12:34 PM

Yeah, I think America is well into the apathy stage as it relates to 9/11.

Not so with the Holocaust. I commend the efforts of our artists, academics and leaders to ensure that the Holocaust is not forgotten.

Posted by: kevin s. | May 1, 2008 1:15 PM

Can we reflect for a moment on some of the conditions which exacerbated the effects of the Holocaust, and which continue to worsen the plight of oppressed peoples?
Thousands of Jews, or more, might have escaped the Holocaust if they could have found a home in America, but just as the situation was becoming crucial, we closed our doors. Whole boatloads of refugees were turned away at the border. We are doing this today in Darfur. As far as "Save Darfur" knows there are only two Darfuri refugees living in America.
The political and financial barriers to entering the United States make it accessible only to those who don't really need asylum. Christians ought to work to eliminate these barriers, and make open immigration a reality.
Of course, the Conservatives won't have any of that, so long as huge entitlement programs exist. So first, we must work to eliminate those programs.
But then our own poor will suffer. The extent of domestic poverty is paltry when compared to that of those oppressed around the world. Setting that aside, the church should rise up and assume exclusive responsibility for the least of these. There is no other way to silence those protectionists. Certainly we should not join in practicing favoritism ourselves. Are American poor more our responsibility that Darfuri poor? What would it be like if we sent men with guns to help our own poor, and ended up accidentally killing many of them instead.

Also, Allied Forces requirements for absolute surrender in Germany prolonged the end of the war, during which many more Jews were murdered than earlier on. The Germans got desperate. This condition was greatly encouraged by the Soviets, who, we ought not to forget, murdered many more millions of their own than Jews murdered by Nazis.

Nathanael Snow

Posted by: jurisnaturalist | May 1, 2008 3:36 PM

So where's all the posts about "why don't the Jews just get over it" and get on with their lives?????

Posted by: lloyd crump | May 1, 2008 4:40 PM

Aquaman,

What are you talking about?

p

Posted by: Payshun | May 1, 2008 5:44 PM

Wake Up: You know Hitler talked about this. If they didn't stop the Turks from committing a genocides of 1.5 Million Armenians because they would not denounce Jesus Christ as Lord and change to Muslim Faith they would take all their property and torture and rape and kill them. This happen when Woodrell Wilson was president and Britian and Germany, United States and Russia, just turned their heads because of the oil there. It is happening right now again in Azerbaijan because of the oil and there is alot more Armenians there than than these muslims and Russia turned it over to Azerbaijans.

Posted by: Sydney R Mooradian | May 1, 2008 6:40 PM

lloyd --

What are you talking about?

Posted by: frankie | May 1, 2008 6:21 PM

I believe lloyd is rightly, albeit tongue in cheek, referring to those regulars on this blog who have basically suggested that Rev. Wright and the black community should just "get over it."

Posted by: canucklehead | May 2, 2008 12:13 AM

"It is a day to reflect on the fact that when the rest of the world knew what was happening, too little was done to stop it."

Unfortunatly this is not unlike the situation current on the continent of Africa today. As the world fills it's editorials with rhetoric and it's focus on other distractions the killings, the rapes, the torture, the atrocities continue. Look at the genocide statistical data of the past ten years alone to see the significant comparison to the plight of the Jews although in a much more compressed period of time in the 1940s. Yet, because these things are occuring in an AIDS infested area, where the understanding of the true term "sub-poverty standards" originate, and within minimally industrialized countries with few resources worth going to war over and to a people considered by some to be less valued than their Jewish counterparts then "Never Again" becomes something I have a hard time saying!

Posted by: d.e.sharp | May 2, 2008 7:48 AM

While I despise all examples of genocide, ethnic-cleansing, mass murder, racism. political terrorism and ethnic scapegoating, I find myself with similar sentiments to d. e. sharp when it comes to this phrase. The phrase "Never Again " seems to put the suffering of the Jews in WW2 in a unique position and to simultaneously give a lesser position to the atrocities that occurred before or after these events.

Similar events have since taken place in Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Haiti, Rwanda, Angola, Russia, Lebanon, Indonesia, East Timor, Cambodia, Azerbijan, Sudan etc. What does it mean to say "Never Again" as though these things had not happened? In none of these cases(except Russia) did Israel or America stand up prominently to oppose and prevent such atrocities and were at times complicit. People who publically stand up to these things are often the first to die, and it is this kind of courage that is needed to confront and end state terror, the kind of courage we see in Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Cindy Sheehan, Martin King, The Israeli refuseniks, Andrei Sakharov, Rachel Corrie, Ken Sarawiwa and Jesus of Nazareth.

If, by the phrase"Never Again" what is meant is that Jews will never allow such atrocities to be visited on them again I am in solidarity, but I am saddened that so few can claim this right to survival and I utterly refuse solidarity with all who would use their claims of divine favor or past suffering or anything else as an excuse to abuse, exploit and kill others.

Unfortunately fascism is alive and well, international war crimes are alive and well; lawless government killing, ghettoization, intimidation, and torture continues, and it is no longer particularly helpful or honest to sound this phrase as a vow of human solidarity against these forces.

War is not the Answer. Peace and equal treatment under law for all. Human Rights for all. Food for all. Health care for all.

Posted by: jonabark | May 2, 2008 11:05 AM

These memorials and rememberances are way different from Rev. Wright's statements and even liberation theology. The tone is so different.

I don't know the origins of "liberation theology," but I'm guessing that it started with the account of ancient Israel's flight from Egypt.

But while we see the world's sorrow over the Holocaust, and correctly so, African-Americans have never received even an apology from the government for slavery and its effects -- which led ultimately to the civil-rights movement (that still divides even the church).

Posted by: Rick Nowlin | May 2, 2008 12:52 PM

frankie - It's none of my business but (that never stops anyone here anyway) I believe all that our good brother Canucklehead was attempting to communicate was what lloyd was referring to by his off-beat comment to which you had responded by asking "What are you talking about?".

I think we all agree with you that the two issues (Rev. Wright's comments versus memberance of the Holocaust) are not comparative issues that would draw the same responses from the more reasonable contributors here anyway.

It's a beautiful sunny afternoon here in the southland so I think I'll go out and enjoy some of God's most wonderful gifts. Have a great weekend ya'll....

Posted by: d.e.sharp | May 2, 2008 2:39 PM

The best way to ensure "Never Again" is to raise up leaders like Joe Lieberman (and John McCain) who stand up for the nation of Israel, and to openly oppose racists and anti-Semites like Louie Farrakhan, Jeremiah Wright, and their disciple, Barrack Hussein Obama.

Posted by: Al N | May 2, 2008 2:48 PM

Thanks d.e.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Posted by: frankie | May 2, 2008 3:15 PM

Great comments by jonabark, and seems so true. How difficult yet noble it is for the oppressed to turn around and be kind to others after being victims. We need to help the Jewish state realize this and our government in the US. Easy to say but recognition that peace in the middle east depends on this courage and forgiveness. Democracy in this island of arab states should not mean we support terror against their neighbors to secure an elusive security they may always seek in expanding their borders at the expense of others. Our tax dollars should stop supporting this. One solution would be to help settle those that think only land is the answer here in the US so they can blend and live in harmany with other humans. jmo

Posted by: William Wilson | May 2, 2008 7:09 PM

Maybe we should move all of the world's oppressed to the USA, feed them 4000 calories a day and they can live with Snow and Wilson. Kumbaya.

Posted by: Cads | May 3, 2008 10:06 AM

"I don't think that you or I have any credibility when it comes to dispensing courage lessons upon the Jewish people."
--kelvin s

And the courage of Palestinian refugees who were driven out of their homes? Ol' fashioned racism: cuz the Israelis are more like us they're the good guys. Why can't those Palestinians be more like us? They oughta be grateful for Westernization.

But, kebin s, keep following the policy lines of George Will and other apologists for one of the 4 or 5 most evil governments in the world today. The Day of Judgment approaches, and I for one cannot wait to see Likud cast into the lake of fire.

Posted by: lloyd crump | May 3, 2008 2:48 PM

Yes, I still believe in God, but not in a conventional personal God. The kind of God I beleive has changed. I don't beleive in a God who acts in history. When my mother had cancer I didn't believe that God would cure. Yes, I still prayed the conventional prayers and they gave me comfort, but as my Rabbi says, "don't let your thelogy get in the way of your praying."

I do know the difference between criticism of Israel and antisemitism. It's just that criticism of Israel is often antisemitic or contains elements of anti-Judaism. I cannot ignore that. Even when it's not antisemitc it is often simplistic and one-sided, and that side is never Israel's side.

It is also a classical stereotype to say that Jews are always crying antisemitism. That's what Foreign Minister Bevin of the UK said when British Jews tried to tell him that Jews were being murdered in Europe during the Holocaust.

I notice that none of you mentioned the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. There are more Jewish refugees from Arab countries than Palestinian refugees from Israel. I should add that the Holocuast did affect Jews from North African countries and Iraqi Jews as well.

Posted by: Susan | May 4, 2008 9:08 AM

Your suggestion that Christians do more for the poor is admirable and should be taken to heart. If only it worked this way. But in admitting this isn't practical brings you back into the real world of government stewardship for the vast number of poor who are either unwilling or unable to help themselves. We've got enough of the poor here already that need support and you want to bring in more?

Then you say the following:

"The problems of overpopulation are mythical - The entire population of the world could easily fit into the United States" and I totally lose your point. Overpopulation is the absolute number one reason for hunger and global warming concerns. Call me Malthusian if you must, but the world's fresh water supply and places where food will grow are limited and thus it shall always be. Overpopulation is taking its toll on both.

Posted by: Cads | May 4, 2008 2:45 PM

"And where did you get your 4000 calories a day for everyone figure?"

This figure does not surprise me, but let me ask you a question. From a biblical perspective, if God is said to confer his blessing on those who have children, wouldn't it follow that God would present us with a planet wherein it is possible to heed the advice.

The problem is a series governmental systems that choke the production and delivery of food. Look at the ethanol hoax for an easy example.

Posted by: kevin s. | May 4, 2008 3:50 PM

I do know the difference between criticism of Israel and antisemitism. It's just that criticism of Israel is often antisemitic or contains elements of anti-Judaism. I cannot ignore that. Even when it's not antisemitc it is often simplistic and one-sided, and that side is never Israel's side.
Susan

I think this is a pretty paranoid way of looking at criticism of Israel. Criticism of anything or anyone is often limited, focused and a product of respect and best intentions from the critic. Many people, including Israelis and Non Israeli Jews are very critical of certain aspects of Israel's policies but want Israel to thrive and prosper and to have the best possible relations with the rest of the world.

Most of the friendly intentioned criticism is about the settlements on the west bank , incursions into Lebanon and realistic and fair borders for a peace agreement and 2 state solution. In short it is about treating one's neighbor as one would like to be treated.

I agree with what you said about God.

Posted by: jonabark | May 4, 2008 6:40 PM

Jonabark, criticsim of Israrel often has a sheer intensity and ferocity than I dont see in the criticism of any other country. The Holocaust is used as a stick to beat Jews up. I almost never see crticism of Israel that is focused and constructive. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it I almost never see it.

I agree with you that the settlements should not exist. I support a two-state solution. Most Israelis do too. It is the qualitative nature of much of the criticism of Israel that bothers me. Just because someone is Jewish or Israeli doesn't make what they say automatically acceptable.

Posted by: Susan | May 5, 2008 7:08 AM

"But what would you use to insult a person for his views then?"
--Truth

"Truth"???

Posted by: lloyd crump | May 6, 2008 11:44 AM

What follows is an example of the extreme abuse of the charge of anti-semitism.

The Loathsome Smearing of Israel’s Critics
by Johann Hari
In the US and Britain, there is a campaign to smear anybody who tries to describe the plight of the Palestinian people. It is an attempt to intimidate and silence — and to a large degree, it works. There is nobody these self-appointed spokesmen for Israel will not attack as anti-Jewish: liberal Jews, rabbis, even Holocaust survivors.

My own case isn’t especially important, but it illustrates how the wider process of intimidation works. I have worked undercover at both the Finsbury Park mosque and among neo-Nazi Holocaust deniers to expose the Jew-hatred there; when I went on the Islam Channel to challenge the anti-Semitism of Islamists, I received a rash of death threats calling me “a Jew-lover”, “a Zionist-homo pig” and more.

Ah, but wait. I have also reported from Gaza and the West Bank. Last week, I wrote an article that described how untreated sewage was being pumped from illegal Israeli settlements on to Palestinian land, contaminating their reservoirs. This isn’t controversial. It has been documented by Friends of the Earth, and I have seen it with my own eyes.

The response? There was little attempt to dispute the facts I offered. Instead, some of the most high profile “pro-Israel” writers and media monitoring groups — including Honest Reporting and Camera — said I an anti-Jewish bigot akin to Joseph Goebbels and Mahmoud Ahmadinejadh, while Melanie Phillips even linked the stabbing of two Jewish people in North London to articles like mine. Vast numbers of e-mails came flooding in calling for me to be sacked.

Any attempt to describe accurately the situation for Palestinians is met like this. If you recount the pumping of sewage onto Palestinian land, “Honest Reporting” claims you are reviving the anti-Semitic myth of Jews “poisoning the wells.” If you interview a woman whose baby died in 2002 because she was detained — in labour — by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint within the West Bank, “Honest Reporting” will say you didn’t explain “the real cause”: the election of Hamas in, um, 2006. And on, and on.

The former editor of Israel’s leading newspaper, Ha’aretz, David Landau, calls the behaviour of these groups “nascent McCarthyism”. Those responsible hold extreme positions of their own that place them way to the right of most Israelis. Alan Dershowitz and Melanie Phillips are two of the most prominent figures sent in to attack anyone who disagrees with the Israeli right. Dershowitz is a lawyer, Harvard professor and author of The Case For Israel. He sees ethnic cleansing as a trifling matter, writing: “Political solutions often require the movement of people, and such movement is not always voluntary … It is a fifth-rate issue analogous in many respects to some massive urban renewal.” If a prominent American figure takes a position on Israel to the left of this, Dershowitz often takes to the airwaves to call them anti-Semites and bigots.

Posted by: jonabark | May 8, 2008 1:17 PM

I find it completely hypocritical that Israel, a country founded because of the horrors of the Holocaust, would deny the truth about the Armenian Genocide as the cost of diplomacy with Turkey. 1.5 million Armenian Christians DIED at the hands of Ottoman Turks in the first genocide of the 20th Century. I guess "Never Again" only applies to them. Adolf Hilter's famous quote: "After all, who remembers the annihilation of the Armenians."

Posted by: JGK | May 9, 2008 3:43 PM