"...all white Americans have benefited from the poisonous legacy of slavery and discrimination."

Well, to be fair, so have all black Americans (all Americans in general, actually).

Not that I have a problem with the apology, of course. I don't believe anyone alive today has anything to apologize for in this regard, but if it will alleviate some peoples' feelings of guilt while making others feel less resentful, I say go for it. I just hope it doesn't spark any new calls for reparations.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 31, 2008 1:05 PM

don't forget to put air in your tires and get an oil change. the party for the working man? roger

Posted by: roger | July 31, 2008 1:59 PM

Sorry, but I am skeptical about this resolution. It accomplishes nothing for African-Americans, and is a politically easy vote for virtually every member of Congress. Its unfortunate that both the Left and the Right are so preoccupied with ideological granstanding that they fail to put much effort into initiatives that could actually solve problems.

Also, I suspect that many legitimate historians would question the statement that "all white Americans have benefited from the poisonous legacy of slavery and discrimination."

I continue to respect Sojourners and Jim Wallis, but am increasingly dismayed by the political correctness that seems to dominate this blog.

Posted by: Bill | July 31, 2008 2:38 PM

"but all white Americans have benefited from the poisonous legacy of slavery and discrimination"

HUH!

As a "white American" who has not had benefit from this legacy (appalachian mountain heritage) I need some clarification on the "all" in that phrase.

Seems like typical "white liberal guilt"; count me out and drop the "all". Maybe how about "all us white folks who have never done a day of real work in our lives who have benefited ...."?

There is much in the Sojourner thinking and philosophical positions to commend but fanning the fires of racial jealousies and bigotry loses me.

Posted by: Dana | July 31, 2008 3:08 PM

Bradley: "The problem with this is:
a.) It is patronizing to blacks"

Bradley, are you an African American? If you are, I'd like you to explain why it's patronizing. If you're not, how do you know it's patronizing?

Bill: "It accomplishes nothing for African-Americans"

Bill, are you an African American? If you are, I'd like you to explain why it accomplishes nothing. If you're not, how do you know it accomplishes nothing?

Posted by: carl copas | July 31, 2008 3:35 PM

Granted, no persons are alive, but white privilege is still alive and well. Slavery was a source of many social and economic problems that we still struggle with as a country. I would rather that we recognize these painful chapters of American history for the murderous and oppressive times that they were. An appropriate form of recognition is an apology--a sincere expression of regret. Painful things don't go away just because they no longer exist in living memory. Who you are today is in part a reflection of the generations of your family members who came before you. Most people want to leave a legacy--something for which they will be remembered. Well, I submit that this part of the legacy that we have inherited can not be swept away by the sands of time. When I look at my friends and family (I'm white and some members of my family are black and biracial) who are black, I see sons and daughters of persons who were forced to come to this country to work as slaves. I (as a white person, an American and a citizen of the world) regret that wholeheartedly. Perhaps part of the legacy we can leave is to have opened up our collective hearts to acknowledge some terrible misdeeds and a way of living that is unconscionable by today's standards. Thank God.

Posted by: Susan | July 31, 2008 3:41 PM

Sincere question: Do any of the folks in this forum regularly make monthly contributions to an African American group? I.E. voluntary reparations payment?

Posted by: Blake | July 31, 2008 3:42 PM

I disagree with the statement,"all white Americans benefited from slavery." Living in the Deep South, where we ALL are still paying the heavy price of slavery & Jim Crow, as a white person it's COST us plenty. We still have a large number of people who seem impervious to education & job training. They are a huge financial & social drag on our society. Years of half measures to improve their lot have yielded sparse returns. Abe Lincoln understood the situation best when he spoke to Northerners about the South"s problems in trying to deal with the Slavery issue," We should pray for our Southern brothers attempts to find a solution to abolishing Slavery, many of whom don't own slaves, and we should thank God that it is their problem and not our problem." The vast majority of white Southerners of today received no financial benefit from the institution of Slavery but we sure as hell have paid the price for it.

Posted by: sonny c. | July 31, 2008 4:00 PM

I guess it's hard for something as abstract as a nation to appologize for historic wrongs committed under its flag by individuals no longer living. The legal entity of the state certainly condoned this system. The nation as a whole prospered in part because of the forced labor of African slaves as it did from the free labor of volutary immigrants. An appology seems like a personal thing between individuals or families. Corrective legislation, which was passed long ago, seems like the right thing for a nation to do. Maybe those pushing for this resolution just need someone to say that what happened to their ancestors was wrong. That's a no-brainer. Even the founding fathers knew it was wrong and some admitted as much but did not free their slaves in their lifetime or in some cases even when they died. The slaves made them rich in the eyes of man but not in the eyes of God. What about an appology to Native Americans for virtually wiping out the population and stealing the whole country at gun point? What would be a sincere remedy? Give the country back? That's not going to happen. And that's why so many people are commenting on restitution on the slavery issue. The last clause of the resolution is very open. What will the other shoe be when it falls? What will it take to satisfy black Americans that that was then and this is now? Many people believe much restitution has been given in the form of affirmative action, job programs, free education, scholarships, minority owned contracting etc to rectify historic social and economic inequities. But we are aware that some of that is a farce and have seen people gaming the system. Hopefully many have benefitted honestly. We wonder what else black Americians need to feel free of bitterness. They have as much of a shot at success in American as anyone but many will not believe that no matter what anyone white does. It is aways a struggle to succeed no matter who you are. Some black people believe it's only a struggle for them and that's because of racial discrimination. If you don't believe it's possible to succeed, you are not psychologically equipped to make the necessary tremendous effort and persevere to overcome obstacles to succeed. You have to believe you can win to get on the field, play hard, take your knocks and ultimatly succeed. Sadly, black culture, including some churchs, fosters the 'you'll never be accepted in America' attitude. That attitude is a killer. No one can succeed with that outlook. If you are unreconciled about your ancestors being dragged here in chains, and hate being here, which is understandable, you are free to leave. If you want to succeed you can. If you want to fail, you can. What more do you want? Easy success? There is no such thing.

Posted by: Ann | July 31, 2008 4:01 PM

i am a 67 year old black man who has been saying this for over 30 years. the injustices i experienced in our society AND in IBM for over 17 years WILL NEVER BE UNDERSTOOD AS LONG AS THIS KIND OF ATTITUDE PREVAILS! this is something that should have been done years ago. granted the arguments that have persisted over the years that: i had nothing to do with slavery or discrimination, etc. are still out there today does nothing to rectify the problem of racism or hatred! however one thing prevails.........what has white america over the years, done to understand how it feels to be discriminated against because of ones skin tone? to me, this is a giant step to bring us together as AMERICANS using all of our resources to make this country the best country on the PLANET! WE ARE STILL ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AS AMERICANS!

Posted by: douglas wilson | July 31, 2008 4:04 PM

Other than to read the monthly "H'rumphs" article by the seriously funny Ed Spivey, I've stayed away from this site for several months precisely because of articles such as this. Given the logic of this apology, I suppose I need to apologize for Hitler's war crimes because of my German heritage.

I see that Moderatelad was back but that the site won't allow his posts. Wonder why?

Just one quote and I'm gone again till Fall:

After defeating George Foreman for the heavyweight title in Zaire, Muhammad Ali returned to the United States where he was asked by a reporter, "Champ, what did you think of Africa?" Ali replied, "Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat." Ali's point was that slavery ultimately benefited slave decendents because black Americans of today enjoy freedoms that most citizens of Africa will never experience.

Posted by: Cads | July 31, 2008 4:24 PM

My great grandfather was a day laborer who owned no land and if he didn't work for the man who did, he didn't eat. He helped his sons escape virtual servitude in the mountains of Slovakia to travel to America where my grandfather was placed into indentured servitude--living in grossly substandard housing owned by the railroad that employed him.

He never learned English because he was never able to get out of his ghetto and meet English-speaking people. He made his sons go to work as soon as they could read and write so there would be enough money in the house to eat. My dad left home as a teenager so he could finish high school and ended up marrying an orphaned bastard who left the Pa. mountains (as a teenager) to get out from under an oppressive foster family.

My wife is the granddaughter of Polish and Irish immigrants who were laborers who went to work as early as the third grade. Her mother was the first in her family to finish high school. Her father drove a truck at the steel plant.

Somehow we both ended up at the same college where we got in not at the expense of African Ameircans, but because we had significantly higher test scores and superior academic records when compared to those admitted under the rubric of affirmative action--some of whom came from much wealthier families and superior high schools.

If we have profited from the institution of slavery or from Jim Crow laws, it is surely hard to measure. But we both learned the importance of helping others and have and continue to do so regardless of race or class.

We don't need a national apology, we need God's word embedded deeply into our souls. Then we need to reach out to those around us who may need a hand up. That will do more to alleviate the vestigages of segregation and slavery more than anything the government can do.

Posted by: BrianR | July 31, 2008 4:27 PM

I hope it helps all people . especially those who feel or are taken for anything less then the respect they deserve because of skin color .

Too bad we can't have apologized to those at the time who were slaves , or better yet too bad we could stop sin before it happens . But we are all human , equal and made in God's image .

hence the apology .

Posted by: politicsmakeusthisway | July 31, 2008 4:33 PM

nice guy: "History books tell us that there were blacks in the new england area the owned black slaves - what about them. Are they in this appology?"

Moderatelad, I know there were a handful of blacks in the New Orleans area who owned slaves. Most of these black owners were "mulattoes," and a goodly number were female who at one time had been the mistress of a wealthy white slaveowner.

But New England? I'd like to see some references to sources.

Posted by: carl copas | July 31, 2008 4:55 PM

I never owned any slaves.
My daddy never owned any slaves.
I feel no guilt.
I see no need to apologize.

Posted by: Omaha Seamus | July 31, 2008 5:01 PM

Perhaps the question is are we intersted in restoring justice for all. A principle of restorative justice is that responsibility be assumed. Congress is elected to be the representative voice of the people of our country. To acknowledge that the people of this country (past and/or present) acted in inhuman ways is a step in that direction... a first step in healing for all. While those who committed such an injustice and those against whom it was committed may no longer live, the scars on the hearts and minds of both show up in many ways. It is hard to imagine that anyone alive today can fail to see the results. It is a sad day when we allow the fear of reparation to keep us from acknowledging the harm done. Shall we hide behind that fear in order to avoid responsibility?
My hat's off to the courage shown by Jim Wallis.
Leahanna

Posted by: Leahanna Young | July 31, 2008 5:05 PM

Most all know slavery is wrong and we should bring equality to all people in Christ.
We should bring the native Indians to equality and have them assimulate; get off the tribal lands and off welfare.
More important we need an AMENDMENT FOR GOD AND PRAYER AND BIBLE AND CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES AS IN OUR U. S. HISTORY. Lets do it. Way one

Posted by: wayne krat | July 31, 2008 5:13 PM

"...all white Americans have benefited from the poisonous legacy of slavery and discrimination." That is a sickening statement. I don't see how white Americans today have benefited. We (todays blacks and whites) have all lost from these past behaviors.

Posted by: Steve | July 31, 2008 5:20 PM

Dear Thelemite
I never said that you did anything.
I never said you should feel guilty.
I said you (and I) should feel sorry.

I then suggested that given the realities of slavery and its consequences which we live with today, we might want to make some moves to understand and become familiar with our brothers lives and viewpoints. It would be wonderful if we all committed ourselves to better race relations.
It would be a great way to demonstrate that we are actually sorry.
We can all become friends if we understand each other. I think if My great grandfather had enslaved your great grandmother you would want me to feel some degree of sorrow about it, despite my innocence.
You have no reason to react angrily to my suggestions.

It is not enough to say your sorry.
It is also not enough to keep on saying you didn't do anything. By themselves these statements are meaningless.
If this were the year 2508 we would all still need to feel sorry for slavery.

Posted by: wayne | July 31, 2008 5:39 PM

My, oh my. Write a column supporting a national apology for slavery and some peoples' dander gets up like never before. Folks, it's not going to intrude on one iota of your cherished individual rights if the United States issues an apology for slavery. Why spend your energy arguing against it?

Hmmm...did you ever notice how so many folks LOVE to speak in the first-person plural when speaking of the honorable things in "our" American history, and see themselves as part of the continuation of those legacies, but when discussion comes around to the dishonorable things then suddenly it's denial in first-person singular?

Posted by: I and I | July 31, 2008 5:57 PM

Posted by: I and I | July 31, 2008 5:57 PM

well put, I and I. very, very well put.

Posted by: sangerinde | July 31, 2008 6:07 PM

Making an apology to Black People for the historical fact of slavery is not condescending to them. It is not an admission of personal guilt, nor even necessarily an admission of guilt of one's ancestors, since not all our ancestors are equally guilty. It is not an attempt to claim that there are no Black People in history who may share some of the burden of the perpetuation of that system.
It would simply be an acknowledgement that the system of slavery was wrong, and that most of the people, regardless of skin color, ethnicity, national origin, or personal beliefs who participated in and profited from the trafficking of Human Beings as chattel were sufficiently sophisiticated to understand that it was wrong. It doesn't place in greater importance or larger sin our system of slavery, when compared to others throughout our history.
We should think of it as a just thing to do, in and of itself. Then we should have a picnic and shake hands.

Posted by: Eldon Rollins | July 31, 2008 6:39 PM

Jsens3,

Read the rest of Ephesians chapter 6. Don't quote the bible and not fully understand the context of what you are quoting. Would Paul recommend that slave owners HANG slaves according to this passage? Would Paul recommend the raping of the women in slavery in this passage and therefore, creating children out of this act? Please, you need to talk to your local pastor or JIM before you start quoting the bible. That is just like other people taking one scripture and running around town with it without reading the rest of the bible. Slave owners rationalized slavery because they thought Africans were less than human. They didn't love their slaves like they loved their families. They treated them as chattel. That was an evil practice and I am sure that when people associate an apology with the evil actions of our past, this will releave a little bit of hostility towards a nation that can treat a race of people so badly. At the end of the day, it is no wonder why Christianity was shunned today since it was used incorrectly, just like you are doing now, to accept the practice and functions of slavery. When you look up slavery in Hebrew times, no one was in chains or hung. In America, Christ needs to be in the hearts of everyone because to some people, the stings of racism are felt just as if JIM CROW or slavery was yesterday. How can a slave owner love a GOD whom he cannot see and don't love a person whom they are enslaving that he can see?

Posted by: Chad | July 31, 2008 6:42 PM

please read the book, "slavery by another name"
Blackmond, Douglas A. there are many many books
out there which address the post civil war and
treatment of Black people in america.
If any of you are thinking and reading persons,
please read, post traumatic slave syndrom
dr.leary. If you want to hide something from
certain people put it in a book.
Jesus came to give sight to the blind, grant
liberty to those that are oppressed and to free
the captive. The bottom line some of you will never understand because you choose not to open
your minds...

Posted by: june | July 31, 2008 7:09 PM

Susan,
The title of this was "Apology for Slavery" not "Apology for White Privelege." There is no mention in the "apology" of "white privelege."

We can have a debate on "white privelege" if you would like, but understand that it has nothing to do with the matter discussed in this blog post.

Carl Copas,
My race is not pertinent to this Conversation. If you must know, no, I am not black. (By the way, you should be careful with the term, "African American" as it is offensive to blacks whose ancestry is not "African.")

Would I have to be black to know that slavery is wrong? Absolutely not. Likewise, I don't have to be black to know that an apology coming from people who weren't responsible and made to people who are not alive to accept or reject and timed just 3 months out from an election is pandering. And pandering is patronizing.

Posted by: Bradley | July 31, 2008 7:21 PM

I am an elderly southern woman who was reared by great aunts who were reared by their family's former slaves. If anyone can be said to have been a good master, my great-great-grandfather must have been, for the many of the freed slaves stayed on with the family as servants. My great-grandfather did not marry until 1865, so his household never owned slaves, but it was his children who were brought up by former slaves. My family's relationship with African-Americans was naturally colored by this heritage. So for me, an apology is in order because of the behaviors I once took for granted that I now understand to have been demeaning and unjust. Perhaps even those of you who have not even the remote connection to slavery that I have can recognize that some of the wrong attitudes that were and are prevalent in our society have rubbed off to some extent on all of us, and participating in the nation's apology surely won't hurt any of us. It might even save us from the sin of pride.

Posted by: Charlotte Ward | July 31, 2008 8:49 PM

I am African, born of two parents, one who could not read and the other had only a high school education. Both came from families of enslaved Africans, who had endured decades of severe poverty, post slavery. So this young couple, as did so many couples before them, had the task of trying to, some how, recover from this horrendous tragedy of enslavement. Consequently, Mom and Dad instilled the ideas of achievement and pride into their six children, making education as important as breathing air. My Dad drilled in our heads, “Having no money is no excuse to not go to college!” Well, this meant that my day, a janitor and my mom, a postal worker had to work day and night, not having decent shoes or good winter coats, and poor quality food, just so my siblings and I could go to decent schools; the public school system in our town was horrible. So they did this, and off to college each of us went. Almost all of us at one time or another was homeless and hungry during our tenure in college. Even though we were poor, we weren’t poor enough to receive aid for school; therefore, we each struggled to make ends met and have all accumulated thousands of dollars of debt in our attempt to make good on our parent’s efforts to forge the family ahead. I am currently just finishing medical school, owing over $100,000 in educational loans. My brother is soon to get his Ph. D in linguistics, he owes close to this amount as well. My sister has a masters in economics and other siblings have recently graduated or still attending undergraduate institutions. One thing we all have in common, WE ARE ALL STILL POOR! All of us, with the exception of my sister, live below the poverty line, with my sister being only one check or two away from poverty. Two of my parent’s children have families, my sister and my self; both families live under the poverty line. Some of us have tried to curtail the debt by working to accumulate the money for tuition, only to postpone potential earnings, perpetuating even more poverty. Eventually, we will gain employment within our perspective fields, using the majority of our income to pay back the debt instead of forging ahead. In spite of our education, we will still be in the ranks of the working poor or two to three paychecks away from being the working poor; our American dream!
African Americans, incur great amounts of educational debt, while consistently receiving less pay doing the same jobs as their white counterparts. This is a well-established fact, not to mention all of the other disparities well documented. So TODAY we suffer. We suffer because America took from us. Whether it was your ancestor who took from us or the ancestor who lived two states away from your ancestor, the majority of Americans are reaping the benefits of economic practices of yesterday. Those benefits were, and still are at the expense of my ancestors; oddly my family is still paying for these benefits, as if we owe America for its misguided, abusive past. The least Americans can do to help us recover from this holocaust, is to implement educational loan forgiveness programs, giving full scholarships for education, from preschool through graduate school. Americans could also legislate programs that use “best Practice” methods to develop positive coping mechanism so vital to any victim’s recovery.
THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF AMERICA. White Americans (at that time, only whites could exercise autonomy in America) created and/or perpetuated a system that kidnapped, and enslaved innocent people and their innocent offspring. Furthermore, White Americans set laws and put systems in place to impose additional restrictions on the children, grand children and great grand children of enslaved Africans, further perpetuating the past criminal act of kidnapping and enslavement. To offer only an apology is to perpetuate the abuse!
America became “the wealthiest” nation in the world as a result of the treacherous free labor of my Great-Grandma’s mother, who was bludgeoned to death by her master as she worked in Alabama fields, and the free labor of My Great Grand Pa who died in 1887; when travel down South, I still visit his grave! Maybe is was not your ancestor who owned slaves; however, your ancestor benefited from the labor of my ancestors directly or indirectly, while some Americans, like the DeWolf family, benefit more than others. What is more important, each American has only a definite amount of time on this earth to seize this wonderful opportunity to have a positive impact and move this country in the direction of wholeness and strength. DON’T WASTE IT!

Posted by: Prolificsis:To offer only an apology is to perpetuate the abuse! | July 31, 2008 9:32 PM

Our nation needs to begin with the American Indian who we nearly destroyed, we refuse to return their sacred mountains, we continue to ignore treaties we promoted and signed with them, we continue to encourage alcohol sales near reservations, we don't allow them to object to the misuse of Indian signs, the media has not even announced the Lakota Nation's withdrawal from the US, we figure if we keep them down and ignore them our souls won't fry.

As to apologies to blacks, they need to grow up. That was a long time ago. I lost many relatives supporting their freedom. Slavery is still rampant in Africa - why don't they object there?

Posted by: Anonymous | July 31, 2008 9:44 PM

As to apologies to blacks, they need to grow up. Posted by: | July 31, 2008 9:44 PM

Huh???

I guess I can see why you didn't put your name to this post.

Posted by: Don | July 31, 2008 10:08 PM

Here's another one of Abe's documents for everybody's reference:

Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, September 22, 1862

A Transcription

By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.

I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America, and Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy thereof, do hereby proclaim and declare that hereafter, as heretofore, the war will be prosecuted for the object of practically restoring the constitutional relation between the United States, and each of the States, and the people thereof, in which States that relation is, or may be, suspended or disturbed.

That it is my purpose, upon the next meeting of Congress to again recommend the adoption of a practical measure tendering pecuniary aid to the free acceptance or rejection of all slave States, so called, the people whereof may not then be in rebellion against the United States and which States may then have voluntarily adopted, or thereafter may voluntarily adopt, immediate or gradual abolishment of slavery within their respective limits; and that the effort to colonize persons of African descent, with their consent, upon this continent, or elsewhere, with the previously obtained consent of the Governments existing there, will be continued.

That on the first day of January in the year of our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State, or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.

That the executive will, on the first day of January aforesaid, by proclamation, designate the States, and part of States, if any, in which the people thereof respectively, shall then be in rebellion against the United States; and the fact that any State, or the people thereof shall, on that day be, in good faith represented in the Congress of the United States, by members chosen thereto, at elections wherein a majority of the qualified voters of such State shall have participated, shall, in the absence of strong countervailing testimony, be deemed conclusive evidence that such State and the people thereof, are not then in rebellion against the United States.

That attention is hereby called to an Act of Congress entitled "An Act to make an additional Article of War" approved March 13, 1862, and which act is in the words and figure following:

"Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That hereafter the following shall be promulgated as an additional article of war for the government of the army of the United States, and shall be obeyed and observed as such:

"Article-All officers or persons in the military or naval service of the United States are prohibited from employing any of the forces under their respective commands for the purpose of returning fugitives from service or labor, who may have escaped from any persons to whom such service or labor is claimed to be due, and any officer who shall be found guilty by a court martial of violating this article shall be dismissed from the service.

"Sec.2. And be it further enacted, That this act shall take effect from and after its passage."

Also to the ninth and tenth sections of an act entitled "An Act to suppress Insurrection, to punish Treason and Rebellion, to seize and confiscate property of rebels, and for other purposes," approved July 17, 1862, and which sections are in the words and figures following:

"Sec.9. And be it further enacted, That all slaves of persons who shall hereafter be engaged in rebellion against the government of the United States, or who shall in any way give aid or comfort thereto, escaping from such persons and taking refuge within the lines of the army; and all slaves captured from such persons or deserted by them and coming under the control of the government of the United States; and all slaves of such persons found on (or) being within any place occupied by rebel forces and afterwards occupied by the forces of the United States, shall be deemed captives of war, and shall be forever free of their servitude and not again held as slaves.

"Sec.10. And be it further enacted, That no slave escaping into any State, Territory, or the District of Columbia, from any other State, shall be delivered up, or in any way impeded or hindered of his liberty, except for crime, or some offence against the laws, unless the person claiming said fugitive shall first make oath that the person to whom the labor or service of such fugitive is alleged to be due is his lawful owner, and has not borne arms against the United States in the present rebellion, nor in any way given aid and comfort thereto; and no person engaged in the military or naval service of the United States shall, under any pretence whatever, assume to decide on the validity of the claim of any person to the service or labor of any other person, or surrender up any such person to the claimant, on pain of being dismissed from the service."

And I do hereby enjoin upon and order all persons engaged in the military and naval service of the United States to observe, obey, and enforce, within their respective spheres of service, the act, and sections above recited.

And the executive will in due time recommend that all citizens of the United States who shall have remained loyal thereto throughout the rebellion, shall (upon the restoration of the constitutional relation between the United States, and their respective States, and people, if that relation shall have been suspended or disturbed) be compensated for all losses by acts of the United States, including the loss of slaves.

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.

Done at the City of Washington this twenty-second day of September, in the year of our Lord, one thousand, eight hundred and sixty-two, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty seventh.

[Signed:] Abraham Lincoln
By the President

[Signed:] William H. Seward
Secretary of State

Posted by: BestsyRoss1776 | July 31, 2008 11:03 PM

By the way, you should be careful with the term, "African American" as it is offensive to blacks whose ancestry is not "African."

A lie -- the first person I ever heard use it was Martin Luther King III on C-SPAN in 1988. In fact, more contemporary folks don't like the term "black" because of its derogatory connotations.

Anyway, let me give some food for thought. From Matthew 5:

23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

And here is the Ninth Step of the 12-Step recovery program: "[We made] amends to such people wherever possible except when to do so would injure them or others."

The big issue here is reconciliation -- and to do that effectively we have to admit that there's a breach because of wrongs committed in the past. It's not enough to acknowledge that "mistakes were made"; they have to be named and made up for in good faith. Now, people here have mentioned that they or their families never owned slaves; while that may be true, the spirit of slavery still exists (it was a political, not necessarily economic, issue). We still have people who look down upon people of color, which led to racism and slavery in the first place, so while the institution is long gone the attitudes still remain -- and that's what needs to be addressed. (If that weren't the case Martin Luther King Jr. would not generate so much resentment from white conservatives even today.) And I think that's what's keeping us from considering the implications of slavery -- that they affect not only African-Americans but everyone who grew up more privileged.

I learned about 25 years ago just what "white privilege" was about, and it had nothing to do with poverty or anything else. I'm myself black, and at that time I befriended a white student at a local woman's college who was on scholarship, well-dressed, well-groomed, very articulate and very, very bright. Until I got to know her family I didn't know that she came from what might be called "trailer trash," but she had access to certain situations that I never did just because of color. (She has always considered herself quite liberal; however, she said later that she once attended a diversity seminar and for the first time realized how racist she actually was.)

I also attended a Catholic prep school my first two years and I heard racist taunts regularly. (And this came from students whose grandparents -- and, in some cases, parents -- came off the boat!) I would have expected that they would have felt some solidarity with African-Americans because of the discrimination they also experienced; instead, they themselves became discriminators as well.

My only problem with reparations for slavery is that the folks who are demanding specific financial amounts have missed the point; reparations should be a good faith effort to reconcile (because you can't just put a dollar amount on injustice).

Posted by: Rick | July 31, 2008 11:22 PM

I say the next congressional apology should be for the tragic consequences of the Great Society programs that have so devastated black families and communities.

Those "Great Society" programs built a black middle-class outside the South that began to prosper only then. We wouldn't have needed them had richer white folks stayed in the city and not fled to the suburbs -- on the government's dime.

Posted by: Rick | July 31, 2008 11:25 PM

BTW, I did not make the two posts above.

Posted by: Rick | July 31, 2008 11:33 PM

Great ... now the next step is to clean up your slums and create equal education for everyone. The same curriculum for all and all universities the same as well.
As a Canadian travelling through your cities I am amazed at how segregated you are still in the year 2008. It is barbaric for this to be found in such a wealthy nation.

Posted by: Wendy | July 31, 2008 11:55 PM

Does anyone read the Bible anymore? Did they glance over the message of forgiveness, reconciliation, love, solidarity, the body of Christ? Of course there needs to an apology! Furthermore, there needs to be reparation.

For 400 years we whites have benefited in disgusting, insurmountable ways from the slavery and then the oppression and suppression of Blacks and/or African Americans. And despite racial discrimination and oppression of American Indians, Latinos, Asians, Jews, Italians, Poles, Irish and others, only Blacks were enslaved and after the emancipation proclamation legally oppressed by Jim Crow laws.

A congressional resolution without economic reparation to Blacks is an insult. More importantly it is a 400 year pattern of sinning by us and our ancestor's. I pray that we all choose the commandment of Christ: LOVE ONE ANOTHER! Amen.

Truth-be-Known

Posted by: truth-be-known | August 1, 2008 12:52 AM

Sorry for all the typos in my last post but I must say, this notion of an apology is too little to late. Obama get's major media time for a speech on race but Congress talks about an official apology for slavery I'm willing to bet that it will not be carry by every network like one man's speech. Why, because it's a bunch of crap. Ask Black people in suffering communities if they even heard about this or if they even care. As if an apology at this point is going to make people feel better. Black people are not stupid and White power brokers need to stop acting like they are.

Posted by: I don't think so | August 1, 2008 12:56 AM

Okay Jen, words matter but if there are no actions to back them up then were the words truly sincere? Where is the evidence that the Country is really sorry for slavery. This is all political and if people can't see that then we're in trouble.

Posted by: I don't think so | August 1, 2008 1:06 AM

Jim Wallis might be inaccurate in stating that no one alive today owned slaves or was a slave in the US. Douglas A. Blackmon has painstakingly documented the convict labor system in the South during the first half of the 20th century in his book Slavery by Another Name. Few Americans realize its kinship to slavery whereby blacks were systematically, through the legal system, tricked into forced labor that was often more cruel and deadly in its circumstances than antebellum slavery. Presently existing coroporations, such as US Steele and others, built their current wealth on the blood and bodies of blacks, mostly but not only men, who were sometimes worked to death. Many of us are surrounded by the bricks produced by 20th century slaves.

Twentieth and twenty-first century American prosperity is directly tied to the legacy of slavery in whatever century. An apology acknowledges this debt.

Posted by: Renee | August 1, 2008 7:36 AM

Just take a drive down any street in an impoverished African-American community and then try to come back and say this apology holds no relevance? To say that this is not an important step in the history of our country is fairly ignorant (in my opinion anyway).

As a caucasian who lives in an urban neighborhood in the supposedly "liberal" state of Connecticut ... let's just say that I have seen more acts of racism here than in anywhere else in my travels. For example, just last week, someone tried to run my husband off the road and yelled racial slurs at him - because he had an Obama sticker on his car. I can understand someone being upset b/c they don't like the man, but to resort to such means because of racism ... that is disturbing.

The effects of slavery continue to trickle down to this generation and I don't buy this line that since it wasn't technically us, we're not responsible. Even if you sincerely believe that, I would challenge you to the notion that we are responsible for addressing the very pervasive and alive racism that is rampant in this country.

I would recommend watching CNN's "Black In America" documentary if they are still showing it. It's extremely educational and eye-opening - and might cause some of the nay-sayers on the issue of this apology for slavery to re-think their position on this issue.

Posted by: JF | August 1, 2008 9:27 AM

Asking and granting forgiveness are among the most Christian acts any of us an perform. They are powerful for the person asking for it as well as the person receiving it.

For that reason, I do not understand why some of us here have a problem with this apology. Is it that we do not understand the pain slavery/Jim Crow brought to the black community? Is it that we do not understand the pain that still lingers from institutional racism?

If this apology does any good whatsoever in helping our nation move forward from its extremely racist past, then it will have been more than worth it.

Posted by: Colin | August 1, 2008 10:14 AM

In the end, if present-day Americans owe a debt to anyone, it would be the slaves themselves. And if the decendants of slaves are owed a debt, it would be owed by the slaveowners themselves. Since neither party is around to pay up or collect, I would say the debt is in the past.

I just don't understand why people who never enslaved anyone feel the need to apologize to or compensate people who were never enslaved, or why those people who were never slaves feel entitled to that apology/compensation.

Posted by: Thelemite | August 1, 2008 1:33 PM

I am sorry for the ills of the past, I feel sorry for the people who suffered. That does not mean I feel a personal responsibility for it. I can say I have some guilt about childhood behaviors, that I exhibited to some geeky kids, but it was not genetically motivated. I feel very sorry for the soldiers of the civil war who had their lives or limbs taken, the people who jumped off the twin towers and died by sudden impact or impalement. It appears the sins of the past are being visited upon the second, third, ( etc.) generations. Can we move into the New Testament and put forgiveness on the front burner? I feel the waring and evil that fueled the slavery machine here are still at work on the African continent. Instead of energizing anger and hatred from the past, should we direct these energies to try to fix the same evil happening today in another place? I heard that about 1/2 to 3/4 million slaves were brought into the US. I was fascinated by the Oprah heritage story- which ended up with her descendants beihg sold into slavery rather than slaughtered after some tribal war. The descendants of the slaves should consider that they may not be here at all, as wars and genocide are historically a recurrent theme. In this light slavery was a form of redemption for the vanquished. If everyone understood the past with a corrected hindsight, there would be less to be angry and sorry about.
Perhaps we could work more on the ills of the present, like congress, lobbying, outsourcing, and the future of this great nation.

Posted by: Australopithicus Americanis | August 1, 2008 2:00 PM

P,

I don't have a problem with the government apologizing to those victims of government-sanctioned racism (ie. Jim Crow) that are still alive. That would be a real example of accountability, and that's just fine with me. Of course, unless some of the politicians who enforced those laws were involved in the apology, it would still be nothing more than a symbolic gesture.

What bothers me is when people say that all white Americans owe all black Americans something for slavery. Even to say the government owes them an apology feels disingenuous; as one poster mentioned, we did have a civil war over the matter, and the United States that emerged afterward was not the same as the United States that previously endorsed slavery - a debt paid in blood, I believe was the phrase.

Not feeling responsible for a deed I didn't take part in isn't the same as pretending the deed didn't happen. It was still a terrible thing. The problem is, the people who owe an apology are long dead, as are the people they owe the apology to.

Posted by: Thelemite | August 1, 2008 2:29 PM

I think the a few have missed the point of the apology. Acknowledging that the white race has attacked and brutalized the black race, then, and now has yet to be recognized, or resolved by any branch of the federal government. Doesn't matter if your forefathers were here then or not. Quite literally the whole civilized world profited from American slaves in some way. Although England was against slavery, they cherished the cotton and tobacco that the slaves produced, from there distributing it across Europe. There were very few countries in Western Europe that didn't profit from slave transport, with the leaders turning a blind eye but a hand open for their share of the profits.
Yes, it is time now to move on, on both sides of Massa's whip, but taking time to really feel the impact of the statement is, I think as, if not more important then the statement itself.

Posted by: Steve | August 1, 2008 2:56 PM

Bill:
I want to thank you for acknowledging he "amazing thread" that this conversation has become. I also agree with you that the actual hard work of fixing our society--urban crime, AIDS, no jobs in the inner city and quite possibily, very soon, no jobs for the white suburbanites, either-
is crucial and that an "apology" can seem "airy" and even "easy" in comparison to doing the hard work which is needed.

But at the same time, Bill, it is very important where the heart of America is. For white Americans to take resonsibility for slavery, and ongoing abuse of whites against blacks is so important for national healing. At one level an apology is THE most important thing because once our hearts, minds, spirits, and souls are actually seeing things accurately,the material world can be healed. Once the emotional pain begins to heal, the WILL to heal our society can catch fire again.
The nation IS beginnng to have the kinds of dialogue that will allow us to -finally--transcend race. But after 350 years of mistreatment we cannot expect everything to just go away with no energy or time allotted to the real process of healing.

Ever since the asassination of MLK and the virtual end of the Civil Rights Movement, most of our energies as a nation have been how to keep white privileges intact -- not how to share power and resources with all racial groups in America.
We didn't complete the hard work of healing these past fifty years and now there is a lot that will have to be discussed and expressed for all Americans to feel we are interconected and united. An apology recognizes this. It is big step. The pain of 3 and a half centuries can not be swept under the rug easily because as we sow, so shall we reap.
If the price to be paid for our abuse of others is emotional pain for us in the here and now...those of us who are white..that is not too much for us to bear for the sake of racial healing.

Posted by: nancy rogene | August 1, 2008 3:33 PM

So I can get a clearer picture and better understanding. In WWII was it the German people or the Nazi's that created the holocost? My parents traveled over there back in the 80's and toured Dacau with my in-laws. After the tour their guide asked them to remember that it was the Nazi's and not the German people that caused all this.

The Nazis, for the most part, were indeed duly elected at least to a point, so that indeed made the German people responsible -- and, man, do they know it. Both Germanys paid restitution to what was left of the Jewish community as a result.

Although England was against slavery, they cherished the cotton and tobacco that the slaves produced, from there distributing it across Europe.

Which is the reason Lincoln sought to abolish slavery -- he saw it as splitting the country along economic lines, though at first he was willing to compromise. (Let's always remember that the Civil War was not over slavery at first.)

Posted by: Rick | August 1, 2008 4:02 PM

Rick,

and that's the most interesting thing about this. If Germans can realize their power systems were created out of destruction and death why can't Americans?

Thelemite,

I really hate the western notion that history is dead. It's not, it's present. I deal with the remnants of it every time I hang with different sets of my white friends. When they make racists jokes or I do ministry to former or current Aryan brotherhood members I see that the racism of old still lives today in the hearts and minds of many people. It can't die anyway as it is a spiritual power. It changes forms but it can only be defeated by bringing justice and fairness to the descendants of that evil. At least that's what the bible teaches.

It teaches that the cross absorbed the ultimate alienation and destruction of that time but the impact and effects are something that mankind must learn to deal with and bring justice to. It's really that simple.

The truth is I don't see that being something you are interested in since the principle slaves and slave owners are dead. The truth is this government has done very little to actually change and bring justice to the people it oppressed. It's still just as power hungry as it was when the founding fathers created the Constitution.

I can understand your point. You literally had nothing to do with what happened a hundred years ago and I am not going to waste my time convincing you of how those choices of a hundred years ago still impact you and everyone else today but I am going to say that we need to be a just nation and the only way we are going to deal with slavery is by being honest about it.

That's the first step. Tell the whole horrible messy, story, create statues and memorials to the slaves that are buried in the Atlantic. Create a national memorial to establish the horror of how our country came into being. That's the first step.

I come from a background that says the dead must be honored and our government doing that is a first step to actually addressing the dead. By apologizing as empty as you see it begins the process for the spiritual renewal of those of us that still have to deal with the consequences of the past. It's a step forward but the test of the apology is what happens next.

p

Posted by: Payshun | August 1, 2008 4:27 PM

Once an apology is made the duty is now on the one who was wronged to accept the apology and forgive, assuming the apology is true. True forgiveness means the aggrieved party shouldn’t bring the issue up again in order to make others feel guilty. I have a feeling this won’t happen.

An apology, however, is insufficient. As I mentioned earlier, amends have to be made to demonstrate true repentance -- and this is the sticking point.

Posted by: Rick | August 1, 2008 4:42 PM

It would be silly to not celebrate our government taking responsibility for the part they played in allowing the injustice of African American slavery to take place but I think the wrong conversation is being had.

My question is, what are they going to do about it now, to honor those who have suffered and fight the modern day slavery that still exists? I hesitate to rejoice when there is still an estimated 27 million slaves in the world today (more than ever in the areas of sexual slavery, forced labor, etc.). Human trafficking is currently the second largest and fastest growing criminal industry in the world. And it's happening here, in the United States too. In fact, "an estimated 17,500 foreign nationals are trafficked annually in the United States alone. The number of US citizens trafficked within the country is even higher. An estimated 200,000 American children are at high risk for trafficking into the sex industry each year." - Polaris Project

So what I'm really disappointed in is the fact that this issue is still referred to as something soley from the past by the leaders of our country when, in fact, slavery is more rampant than ever. True remorse for past wrongs, I believe, would inspire the Senate to be proactive instead of reactive this time toward modern day slavery and acknowledge responsibility to the issue now.

Citizens of the United States, as well, absolutely must step up this time and demand that the same mistake not be made again. We must also take responsibility for the part we all play in fostering a culture where consumerism, greed, and economics are valued over humanity and justice. It is so easy to point fingers to our government and critique their actions, but how do we own up to the part we all play in allowing injustice to occur, both in our country's history and today?

Now THAT would be honoring our past and future, and all the African Americans who suffered as a result of the same inbalance of values that existed within our culture not so long ago.

Posted by: casey | August 1, 2008 5:14 PM

Jim Wallis: I am speaking to you directly. I am sure that you have read the book of Genesis. Go to 9th Chapter v 20 thru 27. The key verse 24 says "When Noah awoke from his stupor and knew what Ham his youngest son had done onto him." He prophesied, Cursed be canaan, the lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem! . May Canaan be the the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be his slave. Noah saw this in a vision. This act was an imbomination that was committed by Ham on his Father. This practice was cariied over thru the line of Canaan. Read this. This is a negative DNA from his father who saw these practices by the fallen angels, who were called the sons of God. This is the old Testament, and thank God our Father who talked it over with his son, Jesus, the Word that was in the bosom of the Father to right all the wrong that was going to happen in the future. We are not responsible, but we can forgive each other for what happen and thank Jesus for taking our place to redeem us from the attacks because of the sin of fllen man who believed the lies of the devil. Satan is a thief and a liar and a murder from the beginning.

Posted by: Sydney Mooradian | August 1, 2008 5:48 PM

The apology is a significant step in the right direction from a nation to a significant portion of her people. It makes no difference who is or isn't alive, no one escapes the dead, no one escapes the past. Humans are a grudge carrying people and when those grudges fester, resentment and violence are the response. The Bible wisely advises us not to let the sun set before settling our disputes, knowing full well our tendencies. The apology is a humbling act and significant gesture. We could do with more humble gestures in our lives, more outreach to others wherever we go. In a divisive age we Christians need to build bridges, not erect walls. If an apology is what is needed to do so, apologize! This comes from one who has one ancestor who fought and died in the Civil War on the side of the Union and another, a pastor, who told the Klan to go to hell when they approached him to join them, who descends from small Northern farmers and school teachers and could easily join the "it wasn't my fault" chorus. I'd rather not pick up that defensive stance, but stand with those who would extend a humble apology where it is needed.
Of course apologies also have to be accepted, which is an act of forgiveness by the injured parties or those who descend from those parties or who have live with the burden of lingering, deeply ingrained racism that are the ghosts of hundreds of years of slavery. Apologies build bridges on both sides. It is an act of grace, something we thank God we are extended by Him and in grateful response should be readily willing to extend to others.

Peace.

Posted by: J.S. Brooks | August 1, 2008 6:12 PM

Thanks be to God that our Congress has finally said the words. I pray that "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" and the injustices that survive these many years after the official abolition of slavery be stopped. It may be symbolic. It may be too late. It may be patronizing but it has to be stated clearly. We have profited from slavery and continue to let black Americans slide into compromised and weakened positions to our own gain. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 1, 2008 8:45 PM

Thank you for your reply as well, Nancy.

I was concerned after posting it that my message was overly inflammatory; I appreciate that you took it in stride. I'm afraid we do not yet see eye to eye on this subject, although I do agree that racism is out there and is a terrible thing. It is awful that some employers select applicants based on racial prejudice, and those that do should be taken to task for it. I have seen a great deal of open-mindedness and acceptance in this country, however, which is why I cannot accept the idea that a "racialized view of the world," as you put it, is completely pervasive.

I doubt that there is anyone who hasn't been subjected to discrimination of some kind, and I doubt that will ever change - it seems to be a part of human nature. And as long as we remain a nation of free enterprise, economic power will never be shared equally among all.

We cannot change the ugliness in our history, so I think the solution lies in looking forward. I have no doubt that this apology will make a lot of people feel better. Still, it will not change the past, and as many here have said, an apology won't fix any problems in the present. We must hold people accountable for their own actions today, not dissipate the accountability of those who came before us to all members of a particular group.

As is so often the case, I'm sure that for all our differences of opinion, we share a common concern for our fellow man.

And that's a good start.

Posted by: Thelemite | August 2, 2008 12:11 AM

Hey, don't you guys go tryin' to hold me to account for Adam's sin, ok? I wasn't around at the time so don't give me that Pauline bilge about seminal depravity, yuz hear? Let Adam look after his own faults and I mine.

Posted by: canucklehead | August 2, 2008 12:55 AM

I thought that an apology for slavery was required until I realized that (I think) such apologies have historically not been made, and just how complicated the precedent would be to try to go back in time and do all those apologies again, including those Africans who sold their own brethren to the slavers.

True, the United States (America denotes the entire continent, which knowledge we seem impervious to, oblivious to, in denial of, or uncaring about, but to which especially the Latin American countries are sensitive.) has prospered enormously from the labor of African-Americans, both as slaves and as "free" people. Knowing of some of the many great contributions to our society of African-Americans, both individually and collectively, as slaves, what I do think an apology is in order for is the horrendous difficulty people of color were required to endure from the time white U.S. citizens were "forced" to free slaves and to accept their full rights of citizenship to the present. Such apology would rightly address both people of color and whites regarding the contempt that the collective presidential administrations and the concomitant legislative and judicial bodies have held all U.S. citizens in contempt where adherence to our Constitution is concerned ever since the formal end to slavery in this country--even though the occasional administration has tried to redress some of the inequities under which Blacks have lived, and those with not necessarily pure motives. I have concluded also that reparations for slavery have no precedent as well, and would be virtually impossible to correctly asses.

Although with each passing generation the color barrier has eased more, there are still far too many U.S. citizens who consider African-Americans as subhuman, dirty, worthless, trashy, stupid, lazy, and worse, which to me is especially intolerable in a free society whose government loves to poke its nose into foreign sovereign nations' business, such as human rights and segregation, and its shaming finger at foreign nations' corruption, as though we were lily pure on that account, all the while being internationally despised for OUR nationalism, OUR disdain both at home and abroad of things FOREIGN, OUR troops and bombs wreaking unlawful havoc on foreign soil on the whim of an idiot puppet president who, with a lot of help from his friends, family, and their power and money, demonstrably lied, cheated, and stole his way into office supported by a captive majority of white people who are so deeply ensnared by faulty conservative theology and economic bondage at every level of society (READ: gluttony, greed, and lack of even CHRISTIAN love or compassion vs. generational slavery and destruction of families and culture; ongoing neglect, exclusion, and derision; laws that provide for impoverished educational funding and facilities, and inadequate educational staffing; inadequate police protection and overwhelming incarceration rate and population; laws that reduced African-American's citizenship to a mere facade, intimidated them, and put them in jeopardy; laws that again tore families asunder and left far too many of that community of proud and patriotic U.S. citizens in a downward cycle of poverty for which they are criticized and disdained. That so many of them have not only survived, but prospered, marks the achievements of these people as truly amazing.)that they cannot focus on much more than the almighty dollar with which to worship Mammon, including the religiously conservative and, distressingly, often bigoted community, who for far too long has had a strangle-hold on politics, contrary to one of the tenets upon which this nation was founded, which apparently at long last is weakening, thank God! And mind, that religion has best be Christian!

I can forgive our white forebears for falling prey to the appallingly un-Christian and, presently, un-American, custom of slavery, which is both condoned and condemned biblically, and for which there was an historical precedent, also ruled by gluttony, greed, and sloth, because it was the social custom of the times, regardless of the immorality involved, and although many men of conscience held slaves. I wonder how many of us would today keep slaves if the practice again were to gain a degree of respectability and lawfulness?

And still the practice of surreptitious segregation continues unabashedly nationwide. Still government policy remains weak, without much political mandate or will to redress the grievous injustices to the Black community since the abolition of slavery in this country. What badly-bungled steps have been taken in this regard have been greatly resented by a particularly vitriolic and vocal over-large segment of U.S. society; again, mostly Christians.

I am white, and I feel an apology is due me from our country too.

Posted by: electriclady281 | August 2, 2008 9:26 AM

Peter:
Since the US government has never before apologized, why are you so adamant that it will have no healing effect?

I have an African American friend who emails me about once a month to say hi. The DAY this apology came out she emailed it in its entirety to me. It means so much to the African American community to have formal, national recognition of what their group has gone through.

Does it solve every problem that remains? No.
Does the Apology open to doors to more venting or expressions of hurt and anger on the part of some of those who have been wronged? Most likely.
Should we all be willing to participate in ongoing discussions, at the very LEAST. Absolutely.
This is not hopeless. It is a sad, horrific part of the American story which by recognizing, facing, and speaking openly about will help us to heal more of the emotions we all have about race and racism in America.
Have white people suffered from the racial issues and abuse of blacks and other Americans of color? Yes, both in our inability to have true economic well-being for all Americans, both white and black, and in the very soul of those who are white and also the soul of America itself.

Posted by: nancy rogene | August 2, 2008 1:25 PM

Let Adam look after his own faults and I mine.

Posted by: canucklehead

Actually makes sense . Original sin has a lot to do with this . Taking owner ship over what is God's .

Rick said
"As an African American I wish this apology was never issued. Not that I don't appreciate the move but every blog or news article comment section is full of reminders that many white people don't care about me or people like me'

Rick you wear blinders sometimes , this has more to do with human nature then prejudice . You have said some of the nastiest things to me , based on group think , life experiences , and assumed the worse . I would have no problem from what I have heard from you in the past about the things you believe in to spend time with my family , children or Grand children . I think they would be enlightened , and yes evenly spirtually blessed . Either its just email or your blasted right and your the devil approach to life may win battles , but they loose the war .

Anyway thats what Christ taught .

Posted by: politicsmakeusthisway | August 2, 2008 9:53 PM

Assomeone who lives in Britain and therefore part of a nation built on slavery and exploitation may I offer the following.
The USA is a society birthed out of genocide, slavery and mass exploitation.Almost all of western society (indeed most of the world)was founded upon the same things.The USA is not exceptional. SO QUIT FEELING GUILTY.
It is not true that all whites benefitted from slavery. Slavery helped to keep poor whites in their place in the ante-bellum south and served the ideological function of cementing poor whites to their own (white)exploiters.During Jim Crow, and most of the 20th century, race was used to divide people who had every reason to unite. This was to the detriment of whites as well as blacks.
In the north wave after wave of immigrants were brutally exploited by the capitalist class who were the real victors in the civil war.
It is class, not race, that is core division in your society. Just as it is elswhere.
However, judging by some of the contribution I have read it would appear that some folks think that black people are the authors of their own problems.It has nothing to do with political correctness to state clearly that America is a racist society. One doesn't have to be a breast beating liberal to see this.Black people still get the rawest deal.
My point is that not all blacks get a raw deal just as not all whites benefitted from slavery. Barack Obama and Condolesa Rice may be black but they aint poor.So long as arguments about race are priveleged over other critiques then the point is missed.
Martin Luther King got shot when he began to talk of capitalism and democratic socialism; when he sought out the true heart of the beast and talked about racial exploitation as being part of a SYSTEMIC exploitation within capitalism.
Apologies are useless in this situation. They do not correct past wrongs but they can often veil present injustices.Who, after all,is meant to apologise to who?

Posted by: Alex Porter | August 3, 2008 7:39 AM

Thank you Monica for the post you made. I agree with everything you said.

Thank you, Alex, for yours as well. You made so many accurate and important points.

However, I see the racism in the United States as a particularly vicious form of a syndrome common to the generalized European world view which spawned colonialism, imperialism, rampant capitalism and racism all over the world. Yet,few European nations had slavery on their own soil and then never as a way of life that went on for 250 years as slavery and almost another 100 as Jim Crow. Because of these historical facts, the prejudices of white Americans run deep indeed because they have been encouraged, fanned, and enflamed for four hundred years. I agree that guilt does not help but I think it is important to recognize that except for Nazi Germany and South Africa, the US has been the site of the most racist regime of the modern world.

Secondly, class issues and racial issues are inextricably tied together. Racism cannot be solved until blacks can get jobs just as easily as whites and that can not be solved until black and white laborers work together to create more progressive policies in the United States. our failure to have progressive health care, child care, etc. is strongly related to racism and the way in which racism has divided black and whites with whites feeling they receive a "psychological wage" just from feeling "superior" to blacks.

So, obviously racism has hurt white people terribly. Still, you miss the point that in America, no matter what else you have going on, if you are white it is still easier to take the next step than if you are black.

Even if we address class issues, that would not necessarily solve the prejudice so many whites still feel towards blacks. However, to solve
racism will require a redistribution of economic and political resources and would address class inequities at the root.

This is why I feel that solving class issues alone...altho terribly important...will not necessarily solve racial bias in the US. When the New Deal allowed millions of white immigrants from Europe to join the middle class, blacks were not included. Some of the "class" or economic issues of the day were solved for whites but blacks were completely left out of the equation (GI bill; FHA loans after WWII, etc.) In fact, all of these government efforts to help the "middle class" were designed to keep racial biases in place. I "privilege" race because I think it is an even more fundamental dividing line in the US than class. A dirt poor white can theoretically win the lottery, move to a new city, put on a new dress, and buy a house in a "nice" neighborhood.
A black American can win the lottery and move but they cannot necessarily live in any neighborhood they want and they will be given intense surveillance as they try to buy those new clothes!

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

Posted by: nancy rogene | August 3, 2008 5:11 PM

nancy rogene: "In fact, all of these government efforts to help the 'middle class' were designed to keep racial biases in place."

nancy, i agree with much of your post. But i'd like to see some evidence to support the above assertion.

Have a great Lord's Day.

Posted by: carl copas | August 3, 2008 6:25 PM

Eric,

how does another person make you feel guilty? Who has that power? The truth is if you are forgiven then you can't be guilty and you should reject such things. But if you feel guilty then that is something you must work out for you.

p

Posted by: Payshun | August 4, 2008 1:13 AM

A good discussion.Thanks for the response.

We have possibly moved off the point but . . .well, heck.
The basic point I am making is that -if apologies need to be made then the american ruling class should apologize to all Americans for slavery, genocide, exploitation,poverty, lack of proper health care etc. My point is that slavery was the worst aspect of an entire system based on exploitation and that that still continues.The American Empire starts in its own backyard. Again, who is to apologize to who and for what? More importantly, who is not going to receive an apology.
The root of it is , I think, is this.Almost alone amongst industrialized countries The american working class failed to build a social democratic party and a combative trade union movement. The whole notion of class has therefore been forgotten about ie the american dream ideology with its myth about a classless utopia of endless opportunity, or been subsumed within other categories.Without an identifiable class politics ( or more exactly, with the crushing of the nascent labour movement)Americans who want change have been deprived of a central ideological pivot which could have provided a counter to the prevailing capitalist zeitgeist.
You have two capitalist parties to choose from.
To limit your politics to either HAS proved and will continue to prove disasterous.To try and cherry pick 'the best of both' is to indulge in pure fantasy.
Nancy,class division long preceeds racial ideologies. Racism and all its attendant horrors were, in the final analysis,means of securing the primitive accumulation of capital. Just thirty miles from me is the city of Glasgow. Its architecture is beautiful. All of it comes from the labour of slaves in tobacco plantations.Not one part of it benefitted the scottish working class.They lived in squalor and despair until they succeeded in building the labour and trade union movement.They were also the people who supported the Union in the american civil war when the british ruling class favoured the confederates. Class politics gave rise to anti slavery politics.
I am absolutely certain that Barack Obama,Condoleeza Rice and Michael Jordan don't get scrutinized when buying clothes.It is being black and POOR that stigmatizes the bulk of black people. And Mr Obama, if elected, will make sure they stay poor.

Posted by: Alex Porter | August 4, 2008 9:39 AM

Rick,
I agree that behavior must change along with an apology. If the U.S. government was still sanctioning legal slavery while at the same time apologizing for past slavery, you'd have a point.

While wage and sex slavery still does exist in the U.S., it isn't protected by law. The government must do more to prosecute those who are guilty of it and protect the victims.

Posted by: Eric | August 4, 2008 10:08 AM

Alex Porter: "And Mr Obama, if elected, will make sure they stay poor."

Sorry guy, you're squawking from the peanut gallery. We who plan to vote for Obama aren't expecting him to be "Son of Trotsky." But we realistically expect that he will try to implement policies that will help those who have been neglected by the Bush Administration. Would I prefer a candidate who champions single-payer health care and large-scale investment in the inner cities? Sure. But I won't make the assumption that Obama will intentionally work to keep people poor.

Posted by: I and I | August 4, 2008 2:39 PM

Don,
I didn't miss Canucklehead's point. I anticipated someone making that very point in my original comment here even before Canuck chimed in.

Using his logic we should be apologizing formally for slavery that took place in during Roman times, the Black Death, Mongol pillaging, the Gulags, Viking raids on ancient Britain, cancer, and every unjust death that ever takes place. It's a nice debating point, but pointless when it comes to American public policy. That's probably why no one addressed it.

Posted by: Eric | August 4, 2008 3:24 PM

Dear I and I
Pass me the peanuts!

I think my point is that if you're hanging around waiting for someone to propose radical redistributory policies ( say that with a mouthful of peanuts)you'll wait for ever.

What you call a realistic expectation I call, well,parrot guano.

Obama is already sending out clear signals he'll be perfectly willing to ensure Wall Street gets all the chocolate and cream.That means others will be chewin' sawdust.

Perhaps it will be best if you go through the experience. AGAIN.

Anyway, God bless America and John Wayne's shorts.

Posted by: Alex Porter | August 4, 2008 3:39 PM

Well, I've posted twice and now have read all 138 comments. Seems like we all agree that:

1. Slavery was wrong

2.

Posted by: Bill | August 4, 2008 3:58 PM

I read what you said and I will say it again because I don't think you understand what I wrote or what I am trying to get at. This is a complex issue. When Congress apologizes for slavery what are they apologizing for? Are they apologizing for creating a government based off it, for the laws they created...

My point is that one apology is not enough to make slavery a non-issue. Two hundred and 50 years of destruction don't go away with one apology. It's going to take work and that means bringing it up again.

p

Posted by: Payshun | August 4, 2008 4:16 PM

If the U.S. government was still sanctioning legal slavery while at the same time apologizing for past slavery, you'd have a point.

Were it not now unconstitutional it might very well be. This is why most African-Americans have always opposed conservative Republicans -- given history, they would likely have supported slavery then (they opposed the civil-rights movement from the start and many still do).

Posted by: Rick | August 4, 2008 4:53 PM

Just an opinion--but apologizing for slavery is what Bonhoeffer would call "cheap grace" It is a disguised form of self-congratulation. We need to engage in the costly grace of altering social arrangements on the ground. Mrs. Hamer was more interested in establishing farm cooperatives than hearing mea culpeas.
In Christ
Bob
I am inclined to agree with Al N | July 31, 2008 2:08 PM though I think fighting for justice rather than "giving up things" makes more sense EVERYONE should have the best this country can offer.

Posted by: robert Alpert | August 4, 2008 5:18 PM

Hey everyone I have not read all your responses there are to many! Can I share a story with you? I am an Aussie girl and this year our Government made an apology to our indigenous brothers and sisters. Did we have to? maybe not, but I cant even begin to explain to you the emotion on that day I will never forget the feeling of a nation coming together as one group of people, sharing stories and experiances, I have never felt so proud of my country. The one thing I think we humans are really good at is not learning by our mistakes and because my government said we are sorry I hope that helps us to remember to never again displace, disband and almost wipe out a very special group of people. Love to you all

Posted by: Trace | August 5, 2008 2:11 AM

*rolling my eyes*

Roll away -- what I said is true. Heck, the Reagan Administration wanted to overturn the Voting Rights Act because, in the words of then-AG William French Smith, it "discriminated against the South." (Never mind that's where most of the problems were.)

Posted by: Rick | August 5, 2008 8:11 AM

Finally. It's mind boggling that it has taken so long.

Posted by: Leanne | August 7, 2008 2:24 PM