A Pop-Star Pastor's Public Fall and the Christian Cult of Celebrity (by Jarrod McKenna)
It was only last month that Sydney newspaper The Herald Sun's Faithworks blog carried a post with this paragraph:
There is an amazing moment on the latest Hillsong DVD, This Is Our God, when Michael Guglielmucci, stricken with cancer, walks on stage with an oxygen tent to boldly sing his song "Healer." He doesn't know how long he has to live, but still proclaims the goodness of his God.
Earlier in the year, Mike's overtly Christian worship song "Healer," which he said was inspired by his struggle with a deadly form of cancer, debuted at number two on Australia's official music charts.
Tragically, last week another news source headline read: "Pop star pastor lied about cancer."
I feel a deep sadness for Mike and all affected. I continue to pray for him and those who are hurting in the wake of his pain. Mike was not just some fringe player on the Australian Christian scene. In Australia's prominent churches (including world-famous Hillsong), this passionate, talented, and broken 28-year-old was not just a hero but a superstar. Until he confessed to the lies about his terminal cancer and his addiction to pornography, all of which have come as a painful shock to those closest to him. ...
... While some might want to write Mike off as another right-wing, power-hungry prideful preacher using Christianity as a vehicle for his own fame with no concern for others unless they can help build their empire, this simply is not true of Mike.
One of my best mates is one of his closest friends, and though I've only met Mike a number of times, I always found him humble and sincere (if anything I found Mike a theologically naive victim of the culture of "Christian cool" that demands superstars, a dangerous position for any of us to be in). Who could know that the pressures of the crazed circus that is Christian celebrity was taking such a toll on Mike's soul and flaming unconfessed patterns of sin? Maybe like MLK, Mike doubted whether the ears below would hear his confession from the height of the pedestal we perched him on?
Recently Mike had made contact with me (through that strange social phenomenon "Facebook"), interested in and wanting to support EPYC (Empowering Peacemakers in Your Community), wanting to have his faith express itself in a gospel concern for the least of these, in caring for creation and in Christ-like nonviolence. Mike was sincerely seeking a deepening and different faith. "Different" in that it believes only in being Christ-like that we make a difference. Mike had started reading Shane Claiborne's book The Irresistible Revolution. Our brother is far more complex than the cardboard-cutout that some are making him out to be. Maybe even as complex, messed up, and in need of God's transforming grace as you and I.
As you can imagine, the blogging world and talk-back radio in Australia have gone crazy over these tragic events. Many are picking up metaphorical rocks aimed at Mike to voice their anger, grief, betrayal, and disbelief. Many feel this will contribute to the cynicism Australians feel toward a Christianity that looks little like Christ. As one prominent pastor has blogged:
"It's his sin, not mine ... or yours." And not to project "his failure onto all and sundry."
But pastor, this is not something I can say "amen" to.
In no way do I want to take away from the pain Mike has caused, or his responsibility for his actions. But clamouring for our own integrity by scapegoating this obviously desperate and hurting (and unwell?) brother can't produce fruits that help us in our own transformation. To paraphrase Carl Jung, we will not become enlightened by replacing Mike with another unrealistic idol of light, but by making the darkness in us, our church cultures, and our world, conscious.
Thankfully, people are voicing their anger, grief, betrayal, and disbelief in compassion for Mike and are asking questions such as, "What is the log in my own eye?"
I wonder if one of those logs is a communal sin in Christian circles where we create Christian celebrities (we are guilty of doing it to many who contribute to this blog as well, be it Jim Wallis, Brian McLaren, Tony Campolo, or Shane Claiborne), onto whom we project all our potential -- and, on the flipside, whom we crucify when they reveal brokenness.
Could it be true that in aid of being "relevant," our churches have become a mirror of the larger culture's infatuation with power, prestige, position, possessions, and prominence, instead of being "colonies of heaven" by embodying a different way?
Do we really want suffering servants who lead by washing feet and meeting the needs of the least of these without their left hand knowing what their right hand is doing? Do we really want wounded healers who humbly renounce "lording [power] over them"? Do we really want fellow confessing sinners who just like us need accountability in taking the exodus from death-dealing ways into God's gracious gift of new life?
Or is it possible we contribute to church cultures where we want pop-star pastors on pedestals to promote for our next conference? Is it possible we situate them at such heights it makes it near impossible for them to confess to the diversity of weakness we share?
Yes, we clearly want "anointed leaders" who can rub elbows with the rich and powerful. But are we really interested in the kind of anointing that God gives, that God gave to our Saviour, sent for the sick, those who suffer, the poor, the prisoners, the hurting, and even hypocrites? Do we really want our church mission statements to look like Jesus' mission statement (Luke 4:18-21)? Yes, we love prophets who can warm our hearts with promises that God will give us everything the world wants. But how do we respond to biblical prophecy that confronts us with our own darkness and asks us to repent? Maybe the honest truth is that we want "mighty men and women of God" and not humble followers of Jesus.
In a culture that values good PR over public confession, it wasn't until Mike voluntarily confessed to his fraud and failure -- yes, he wasn't forced to! -- that I think he's worthy of being considered an example. Now, and only now, is Mike maybe an example of the costly integrity that exposes self at the risk of losing all. The kind of integrity an alcoholic has in admitting they are an alcoholic. Yet this never removes the pain their alcoholism caused others. In the prophetic words of Tina Turner, "we don't need another hero." We need humble, confessing sinners willing to let God create a sign of God's dream for creation out of our broken lives.
I pray that this might be the first fruit of Mike and those he has hurt really being healed. I also pray for the healing of our church cultures that demand "successful heroes" other than the crucified failure that has saved us.
Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, because we all need your healing and integrity.
Jarrod McKenna is (another sinner with no stones to throw) seeking to live God's love. He's a co-founder of the Peace Tree Community, serving with the marginalised in one of the poorest areas in his city, and is the founder and creative director of Empowering Peacemakers (EPYC), for which he has received an Australian peace award in his work for peace and (eco)justice.
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Comments
Ohh...I would have rather not read this.
Pat Robertson is one who makes me sick with his gross self-aggrandizing and ridiculous ramblings about his angry God. I just wonder how long before the media reports on how he helped his son Gordon cheat on his wife and keep that extramarital affair hidden as though two holymen continued telling their viewers to confess THEIR sins and as those two holymen continued their on-air "healings" and "words of knowledge."
Adulterer holyman Gordon Robertson can be seen on the internet saying that he laid his hands on a crippled boy and healed him, then pointed his finger at the boy's mute sister and healed her too. He had the audience in tears with his dramatic acting!
What I want from Christian leaders is a heart. I do not expect anyone to be superhuman, just humane. Does anyone believe that Pat Robertson can legpress 2,000 pounds? Why did he make that claim on his tv show anyway? Does he actually believe his own words - for example, does he actually think God sent Katrina and the terrorists because we vote for democrats?
It is embarrassing what has happened to Christianity with these frauds as representatives.
Posted by: Cheryl Spencer from Lewes, Delaware | August 25, 2008 1:06 PM
As a cancer survivor and a Christian committed to doing what is right before God, I am sickened by the lies this man has perpetrated.
I have enough sins in my life that I don't need to make up some to bring people to Christ. I do not need to bring false testimony to support my Faith in Jesus.
Pride and Vanity are the sins that bring down the powerful and it is such as this that destroys men of God. I will pray for Gugliemucci, but I will not call him Pastor. He has lost the right and the will to serve God, he sought to promote himself rather than the Truth of Salvation.
Posted by: Paul, seeking wisdom | August 25, 2008 1:28 PM
I pray that he and his family and friends will be able to deal with this with God's guidance and help. That love will be shown to him for his failings and that he will be restored to fellowship with all concerned. I pray this for all liberals and conservatives that fail us and God.
All the Time - God is Good
Posted by: big guy | August 25, 2008 2:03 PM
One of the things that saddens me most is that a Christian does not--or should not--need a catastrophic illness to write--or relate to--a song called "Healer."
Posted by: Paula | August 25, 2008 2:15 PM
This is good that the story was printed . How sad though . How many of our false personas. at least mine , that we "I" propetuate to hide what we feel our short falls . Nicer family , our kids doing better then they really are , etc .
About when i got first saved their was a fella who still has a Christian Web site today , called Mike Warnakee . His testimony was he was in the occult and came out of it. Had speaking tours , sold tapes , etc . Quite famous in the conservative Christian arena , at the time I thought we were all one church actually . side topic
I actually worked with a young lady who said she got saved at one of his speaking engagements that a friend brought her to .
Is her salvation any less, or the spirtual doors that this guy allowed to be open under a ly ?
I don't think so . But the possible hurt this man has done to the family of God he is accountable for .
Hope he gets the help and direction he needs . Pray for those that he touched also.
Posted by: Michael | August 25, 2008 2:33 PM
I am sad that this even took place - that said.
I believe that this is the direction that some - religious and non-religious, conservative and liberal are going in the new generation. There seems to be a need by some to have a 'gimick' to get the message across. The need for some to take on the issue and 'make-it-their-own' so to communicate the point. I believe that the real story is what communicates the best. The real story of salvation and God love and changed lives of believers because of the Holy Spirit in their lives.
Just my thoughts
All the Time - God is Good.
side-bar -
I am going to go out on a limb and say that according to Wallis and Co - the Showdown at Saddleback was not worth their reporting about. Not sure why - many on both sides of the isle like Rick Warren a lot.
Too bad - So sad
.
Posted by: big guy | August 25, 2008 2:34 PM
Paula you are right , but hearing stories of people being healed by the touch of God does encourgage us . It did when Jesus healed 2000 years ago , and it still does when we hear testimonies of how God brought people through dificult times or restored one's health .
There are still plenty of people in the world that ask the Lord to show us his Hands that were pierced , and many of us wo will give all they have because they just know in their spirit that He Lives .
Posted by: Michael | August 25, 2008 2:39 PM
Very tragic. Sadly, he is not the first nor the last.
Lest we over psychoanalyze the situation and the cultural ethos of church leadership & influence, we can't dismiss the issue of the heart.
We are all prone to temptation and sin. Mike was no different. While we extend grace and discernment, we have to also call it for what it is.
If I read the Scriptures correctly, those who were the closest to Jesus were fighting over power, prominence, and fame. Nothing has changed. Let's be wise and careful.
FWIW: http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/guglielmucci-bentley-safeguarding-your-heart/
Posted by: eugene | August 25, 2008 3:05 PM
Ouch. What a story.
There are a couple conditions at play here. I don't think most people want a celebrity, we want real people being real Christians in the world around us.
Our Christian culture does promote a an obligation of, "If I got cancer, I would glorify God in it" in a way that would some how make us a celebrity of sorts. If we go through a difficult time, we believe that qualifies us for public ministry -- as if everyone doesn't go through a difficult time. And your difficult may or may not compare to my difficult.
Did this man believe he was sick? That's a mental health problem that needs to be addressed. Did this man just out and out lie? That's not just betrayal, that's an ego trip with tenticles that run deep into a lot of issues that also need to be addressed.
I am not throwing stones -- I've had my share of ego trips and told some lies -- not on a public scale, but it may be worse to do it on a private scale. My point is, that I believe true discipleship runs very, very deep. It means we have to probe deep inside ourselves to understand why we would rather lie then tell the truth. We have 12 step programs for nearly everything but lying, and lying ruins nearly every relationship you're in.
This man, who I'm not familiar with at all, has taken lying to the point of pro-active fraud. Hopefully, most of us will stop our lying before it gets to that point. There's also many ways to get caught in a lie. One of his problems is how he'd get out of it. He'd either have to really get sick or get cured.
As for his addictions, that's a not a fun one to face either. He'll have to work hard, preferrably with a professional, to recover from that one.
So many people have lost dear people to cancer or faced it themselves. It's so not fair what he has done to them. I have a relative who faked M.S. for years, and so I'm suspect of anyone who claims to have it. I hate that I have that impulse, but I do.
John Hinkley, Sr. wrote in his book about his son's mental illness, 'Sin ruins the past as well as the future.' It's a good truth that applies here. This lie may well have ruined every good thing this man has done to this point.
The lesson is to all of us. You don't want to get disqualified on the last lap of your race for doing something stupid. It's so important that we keep our hearts clean before God, and take all those steps we need to take to do it.
Posted by: frankie | August 25, 2008 3:11 PM
Thanks, Jarrod, for your post. I heard a saying one time that "The church is the only army that kills its wounded," which deeply saddened me. I think that this is indeed one of the ways in which we must strive to be different from the world. And I agree that when we put people up on pedestals we don't absolve them of all responsibility, but we do set them up for failure by asking them to do something that can't be done and therefore share in responsibility when they fall. What a witness an honest, unforced confession can be, especially when coupled with love and grace beyond all reason. Jesus said that people would know who his followers are by how we love each other. Please, oh please, let's make him proud.
Posted by: sara | August 25, 2008 3:26 PM
Cheryl, I appreciate your anger at the abuse of trust that you see in Pat Robertson, especially as he is so visible and in such a position of influence. However, we're commanded to pray for and have grace with him too. I'm not certain what this looks like when it's played out on such a public scale, but we need to find ways to speak the truth in love, "hating the sin" while "loving the sinner" and affirming them as a child of God, one whom God considers precious enough to spill his own blood for. We're all sinners in need of grace, and God's not giving up on any of us.
Posted by: sara | August 25, 2008 3:36 PM
He went on stage with oxygen???
All of us fall short. I am happy that he is making reparations. But, what motivates someone to pretend to have cancer to get attention??? Didn't he think anyone might figure it out or was he figuring that he would have a "miracle cure?"
There are some pretty bad things done in His name.
Posted by: Creed Pogue | August 25, 2008 4:08 PM
"While some might want to write Mike off as another right-wing, power-hungry prideful preacher using Christianity as a vehicle for his own fame with no concern for others unless they can help build their empire,..."
Why would they want to write him off as that? Are all Christians who fall "right-wing?" Are all "right-wing" Christians moral failures who are "using Christianity as a vehicle for his own fame with no concern for others unless they can help build their empire?"
That seems like an odd paragraph.
Posted by: | August 25, 2008 4:13 PM
Well said, frankie. But I think Christians want to be real Christians before being real people- or should I say real adults. Most of us let it slip right by when we hear another adult repeatedly attempt to blend non-sequitors in order to win an argument. Or we just ignore it to "keep the peace." It's these kinds of behavioral exercises that undermine and mock the word of God - basic behavior and maturity. I treat and teach people that act this way the same as I would my own teenage son or daughter. Every lier has to string together a fancy knot of smaller lies. It's an easy and selfish way to act. People need to interrupt this process of speech when they hear it and then move on from there. Sometimes a quick sentence to correct them is all that's needed. You won't make a friend, nor an enemy, but you'll feel better about doing right and it won't be forgotten. If American Christians want their faith to be respected and cherished its followers should demand much more out of its own instead of letting others think they're helping by "staying out of it" and ignoring the behavior.
Posted by: Bulldog | August 25, 2008 4:16 PM
Bulldog --
Good for you! Correcting a problem when it's small is much easier than trying to get rid of a major issue.
I get a little tired of having Christians butt into people's lives all the time. They have advice about who you should marry or if you should have kids. But calling us on the carpet for something tangible that we just did -- that would be helpful.
Posted by: frankie | August 25, 2008 4:42 PM
The point is not standing up and confessing. Confession without change will get you no where.
Maybe I've been around the block a few times, but I'm not into the whole celebrity thing. Leaders have a huge amount of responsibility, but I'll be the last one in line for anyone's autograph. I may feel the need to let them know that their song ministered to me, or that there sermon helped me, but put them on a pedestal? No. They are people, trying to figure out this Christian life, and are really no more enlightened than anyone else. They may be more obedient, but that takes a long time to see.
Posted by: U TOO | August 25, 2008 5:18 PM
Pornography is not an addiction it is violence against women.
Good point about the cult of personality.
Pastor Jeff
Posted by: Pastor Jeff Staples | August 25, 2008 6:27 PM
We do put Christian's up on a pedestal and that's wrong. My point was that we use the Chrisitian identity too casually and too often in everyday situations. Regularly ignoring an inflated ego just to keep the peace and then being called a good Christian for exercising "elegant restraint" is a weak link for the larger faith community in our Country. But the Christian identity is just one mask many of us cling to and blindly hide behind to make us feel better about our own selfishness and pride.
Jesus taught adults as if they were like his children too you know. That's how his people learned. It was the bigger establishments who were Jesus' enemies and the ones who thought he was talking down to. He was harder on his own flock.
Posted by: Bulldog | August 25, 2008 6:31 PM
Posted by: Cheryl Spencer from Lewes, Delaware | August 25, 2008 1:06 PM
Interesting that you read this article and you instandly go to Robertson?
Did you know that Robertson has made most of his millions by investing with people in his own family and friends? He has made a lot of money buy and selling foreign currency. You may not like this but it is not illegal or unethical. He has also made a lot of his money from his books. You can look at his website and drill down and should find out what he makes because as a NFP, his salery and the saleries of a few others have to be made public. Billy Graham has made millions over the years with his books.
One can be a Christian and well known and make a lot of money and still be moral. It is not easy but it happens all the time.
Don't you think that Wallis has made a boat load of money on his books nationally and internationally? I hope he makes more - it means more taxes will need to be paid. He may have to hire a few more people to assist him in running his NFP - great! More people paying taxes paying into the system.
What is wrong with success - I personally could use a little success right now just looking for a job so that I can keep paying into the system to support my family that I live with and the one that I don't.
I would love to win the Powerball at about 280 million and I promise that I will keep the money in the US so that I pay my share of the taxes. (not like Teddy Kennedy who moved the Kennedy fortune off shore so that he didn't have to pay taxes)
There is nothing wrong with wealth or success - period.
How one obtains it is another story - like bootlegging...
All the Time - God is Good
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Posted by: big guy | August 25, 2008 8:07 PM
Posted by: Bulldog | August 25, 2008 6:31 PM
Regularly ignoring an inflated ego just to keep the peace and then being called a good Christian for exercising "elegant restraint" is a weak link for the larger faith community in our Country.
But that is just what Rather and the Big Four wanted. (CNN-ABC-CBS-NBC) They wanted to be able to make the church look like radical conservative so they edited Fawell - and all to look that way. Or they would fine the congregation that was so layedback that anything goes. There are many in the Christian community that understand the call on our lives and what the Bible expects of us and we are doing the work of the Kingdom with little fan afre and none desired. But the Big Four could not hold on to their audience if they had protraied that Christian Church that way. There are more congregations and pastors out their like Rick Warren that are evangelical. But Rather and Co will color all evangelicals as Fawell clones because it sells on the evening news. (he has been creating the news a lot longer than just the Bush documents) But the Big Four would rather have the world see us as Fawell clones than Warren workers for Christ.
All the Time - God is Good
.
sidebar -
the Showdown at Saddleback is a dead issue on this site. Too bad - I would like to have read what any of the regular suspects on this site would have had to say about it. CNN and MSNBC did a nice job commenting even 24 hours after the event. (I believe is was MSNBC) so did FOX but that will put several into cardiac failure if we talk too much about that.
Posted by: big guy | August 25, 2008 9:00 PM
The poor guy. You have to wonder what kind of pathology drove him to do such a bizarre thing. I have trouble with the idea of Christian celebrity, but I'm not sure it has much to do with this circumstance.
Posted by: Gordon | August 25, 2008 10:56 PM
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/08/what_rick_warren_could_have_as.html
big guy, i couldn't have said it better than david waters did on the link above about the rick warren forum.
Posted by: nad2 | August 25, 2008 11:28 PM
Big guy, what do you think of Pat Robertson's association with Charles Taylor?
Link
Posted by: Donald | August 26, 2008 12:29 AM
"The poor guy. You have to wonder what kind of pathology drove him to do such a bizarre thing. I have trouble with the idea of Christian celebrity, but I'm not sure it has much to do with this circumstance."
I agree. I'll gladly criticize the Christian contemporary music industry for a process that produces terrible music, and too closely reflects its secular counterpart. But wouldn't a song written by a man facing life-threatening cancer be compelling in any genre?
It is valuable to understand the root cause of sin, and recognize that this man was not immune to those root causes. Blaming the system, so to speak, indicts people for trespasses they have not committed.
Posted by: kevin s. | August 26, 2008 12:59 AM
corrected :
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of The Bible.
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Posted by: John | August 26, 2008 2:10 AM
Big guy, what do you think of Pat Robertson's association with Charles Taylor?
Link
Posted by: Donald
Donald I hope that was an editorial on that link ? I read it and found it to be quite uneven , no balance , and facts from the beginning that were distortions and lies . And I always thought Pat Robertson to be quite arrogant , I am not even a fan of his .
Posted by: Michael | August 26, 2008 3:06 AM
Blaming the system, so to speak, indicts people for trespasses they have not committed.
Posted by: kevin s.
Very true Kevin . We had a teacher in our school district that sparked a controversary by the materials he used teaching a class on the Vietnam War . The students loved him , parents got concerned by some of the graphic materials and his politicalviews getting mixed in . He defended himself by using his Vietnam War Veteran Status and the experiences he had in Nam . Turned out he was never even in the military , and disappeared from our district after it was revealed . Blaming public education for this would appear foolish .
Posted by: Michael | August 26, 2008 3:12 AM
There is a lot wrong with using deception to gain power and wealth. There is a lot wrong with telling others to confess their sins while you yourself are hiding your own. There is a lot wrong with using a tax exempt status to organize politically for the Republican party, while claiming God smites people who vote for Democrats.
Sara, Pat Robertson is a very powerful and wealthy man who uses his position to take advantage of trusting souls for personal profit and power. My prayers are with his victims.
Big Guy, Pat Robertson is totally immoral and now his adulterer son Gordon is poised to bilk the next generation of faithfuls. It is the saddest scam in the world.
My concern is for the souls who are bilked and duped by Pat and Gordon Robertson, who believe their act to be genuine. My prayers are for faithfuls who listen to Pat Robertson's ridiculous ramblings about his angry God and believe that man to really and truly be a "holy prophet of God."
I am praying for the day when our media will report what they know about Pat Robertson's sins and crimes. I hope I can one day testify to what happened to me and my family at the hands on them and Gordon's whore, Gigi Lacey.
Pat Robertson is an arrogant, prideful, hateful fraud, but he is so much worse than just that. The public, especially Believers, should be told the truth about that man's exploits and wrongdoings. You are welcome to read my profile at Huffington Post where I am Lewes17266 if you are interested in knowing more about my experiences with Pat and Gordon Robertson and why I am so determined to tell other trusting Christians to guard their hearts from the counterfeits.
Posted by: Cheryl Spencer from Lewes, Delaware | August 26, 2008 5:33 AM
Posted by: nad2 | August 25, 2008 11:28 PM
So - let David put together his own forum and invite the canidates. The 'crowd' was not all evangelicals - Obama had friends there too. I believe the questions were fair - basic - to the point - and not above anyones pay-grade if they are running for the office of the Pres.
It will be interesting to see what other forums they will meet together in the future.
All the Time - God is Good
.
Posted by: big guy | August 26, 2008 9:39 AM
Posted by: Donald | August 26, 2008 12:29 AM
Big guy, what do you think of Pat Robertson's association with Charles Taylor?
And why should I care? With all the questionable associations that BHO has and the Big Four News just blow them off. The questionable people that paid the Clinton's for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom and the liberals just blew it off.
Does the company one keeps matter?
I have never donated a penny to Robertson - I believe that he is off base on some issues. I believe that he still has the right to speak and at times some good ideas or solutions come out of his mouth. I'd say the same for Wallis.
But Sojo and many others on this site want to and do paint conservative evangelicals as Robertson clones -period. That is wrong - period. You and others that support the labeling of all conservatives like this and Wallis is one of the bigest offenders...That is like me saying that all liberals running for Pres have the sexual antics of a Clinton and every liberal lady working in their adm. is just a Monica in training. (real stupid and false)
God is Good - All the Time
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Posted by: big guy | August 26, 2008 9:49 AM
Posted by: Cheryl Spencer from Lewes, Delaware | August 26, 2008 5:33 AM
Big Guy, Pat Robertson is totally immoral and now his adulterer son Gordon is poised to bilk the next generation of faithfuls. It is the saddest scam in the world.
Cheryl - new flash - God is still in control.
God will bring them down in His time regardless of your efforts. Been screwed by a fellow believer - get in line honey and the line is long. Been there - done that - got the T-shirt. I lost a job in a church because of someone playing outside the lines with the rules and have yet to get another position that even closly resembles that one because bad news travels fast and is not forgotten anytime soon.
After months under a doctors care and hundreds of hours of counseling. I have made the decision to move on and become better rather than bitter and leave room for God to deal with this. The way things are going - I would have settled for an oppology - He is demanding more. (dare I say - Go God)
There have been Robertsons all through the ages and God has delt with them. If what you believe Robertson and Co has done is true - He will take care of you and them and His time is always perfect. (even though I believe he is a month late in getting me a job)
All the Time - God is Good
.
Posted by: big guy | August 26, 2008 10:01 AM
Big Guy -
A very valid point. A lot of conservative Christians deplore Robertson, Falwell, Dobson as much as the libs do.
Posted by: Gordon | August 26, 2008 10:03 AM
I've read all the comments - - -
and I recall Jesus saying -'let he that is without sin cast the first stone.' . . . and interestingly enough He also said, 'forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.' then again, He said, 'this is My commandment that you love one another as I have loved you." (John 15)
and it's repeated again in I John 3. . . .I don't see much love or forgiveness in comments. Jesus clearly tells us to forgive others as He forgives us - no strings attached. simply forgive. otherwise those we don't forgive control our lives! Jesus wants to be in control of our hearts and lives. He lovingly extends mercy and grace and forgives . . . so based on that - who are we not to forgive others???? as He forgives us . . . remember?
Posted by: jeannette | August 26, 2008 10:15 AM
Jesus also says in Matthew 18:
15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Forgiving someone just to free myself won't help this man a bit.
Posted by: U TOO | August 26, 2008 10:47 AM
U TOO -
I'm not sure there's anything for me to forgive. There was no offense against me (except perhaps that he defamed the cause of Christ by his conduct). Perhaps the people who were taken in by his hoax have something to forgive. As for me, I will pray for his redemption.
Posted by: Gordon | August 26, 2008 11:03 AM
Posted by: U TOO | August 26, 2008 10:47 AM
Forgiving someone just to free myself won't help this man a bit.
I disagree -
I believe that there are situations where you need to work through the issue and come to the point that reqardless of what has happened - you have to forgive that person(s) so that you can move on. In my case - I could not confront the person that lied about me in the manner of Matt 18. His actions had caused the demise of friendships that I had developed over decades as they believed him and did not feel necessary to talk with me - why OGK.
In my counseling I was able to work through the issues for the most part. I made my decision to become better rather than bitter. I was able to talk and regain some of the friendships a number of years later. We talk about 'what happened' but cut the topic off at some point because it was not productive to dig up the whole situation.
It was water under the bridge and we were not going to get it back and we all had moved on. Now we had the desire to move together again and leave the past in the past. Let God deal with it in His own good time - and He has and still is.
We are all sadder and wiser and I doubt that this will ever happen again in any situation that any of us find us in the future.
All the Time - God is Good
.
Posted by: big guy | August 26, 2008 11:50 AM
May God bless today's evangelebrities. These mostly self-absorbed white males believe their own media. Jesus seems to have operated more on a don't-tell policy when it came to his personal power.
Posted by: Rev. 2008 | August 26, 2008 7:37 PM
The pervasive culture of celebrity is incredibly corrosive and is heavily impacting the more public faces of society, including Christianity. Seeking fame and forturne has ground down and killed more than a few over the years. Having had some experience with media interviews, those who need you for a story make you feel very important while the lights are on, the mikes live, and the cameras running. Once your part of the "show" is over and the circus moves on, it is very tempting to try to regain that spotlight and that attention. Some become addicted to that and end up harming themselves and others quite badly to gain and maintain their spot in the public eye. How we Christians treat our brothers and sisters who fall victim to this problem will tell the world much about whether we truly believe the gospel of love, grace and mercy given to us.
I'm sorry to hear about this brother's fall. I hope and pray he will learn from it and be able to move forward as a faithful, productive Christian again. Admitting his errors, humbling himself, and accepting the consequence makes for a good start.
Peace
Posted by: J.S. Brooks | August 26, 2008 8:45 PM
Yes, we clearly want "anointed leaders"
While we can debate and speculate about the reasons, motivations, social dynamics and possible illness which created this situation, I would suggest that there is an issue which needs clear debate.
The concept of ‘touch not the Lords anointed” which may be implicitly or explicitly stated about certain leaders is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately it seems to be some what too common in my bailiwick.
I have encountered this several times recently and it seems to lead to inflated ego / power / silencing of critiquing / and even denying the injunction that we are to put our fellows first.
I have seen Australian church leaders ignore serious accusations brought by many persons concerning the abuse of power, staff and national Christians by a senior Australian worker because the work is ‘so successful’ and so is obviously “anointed”.
Had these abuses occurred in Australia and not in another country, that person would be taken to court both by the injured parties and over the contravention of various industrial laws regarding employee health and safety with his managers being asked to show cause why they allowed the situation to continue.
Putting persons on pedestals – and in some cases by suggesting that as they are more anointed than the rest of the fellowship that they have a closer conduit to God and so blessing should flow about them, tends to undo one of the Reformation concepts of the ‘priesthood of all believers”. This undermines the status of others those in that group as they are not blessed in the same way so are of lesser value. Intensify this situation and cults may form.
Highly blessed persons are a huge resource for the church. Yet, let us also foster the concept that all of us are responsible to the rest of our fellowships. This recognizes that Christ came for all, and is accessible to all directly equally. This will help to keep these persons healthy in all aspects. Thats what 'mates' are for.
If one fails, we are all damaged.
Posted by: JohnH | August 27, 2008 9:37 AM
Given the basic premises and assumptions of prosperity preaching, instead of being surprised that this happened, we ought to be surprised that it hasn't happened more often.
Posted by: I and I | August 27, 2008 9:53 AM
JohnH -
I don't entirely agree, but I like your analysis. I like the analysis because I think you accurately identify the source of the problem. I disagree only because I belong to a groups that doesn't accept the idea of the priesthood of all believers. This is a Protestant idea whose origin and motivation I understand (and with which I sympathize to some extent), but I think a lot of the "celebrity Christianity" that causes so much trouble stems directly from that source - everyone is equally qualified to lead the Church. I'm not sure what the answer is.
Posted by: Gordon | August 27, 2008 10:05 AM
I agree with the notion of reconciliation in the body of Christ. Hopefully, it extends to all including Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.
Did I read this wrong? On what basis would Jesus Christ be referred to as "the crucified failure?"
Posted by: Geoff | August 27, 2008 2:01 PM
That is an awesome article. I am glad to see that some one in the Christian community can see past the past, the failures, the stains, and see the God touched heart underneath.
I understand a lot of Mike Guig, more than most. To be completely and utterly honest, what he has gone and going through is what my life looked forward to at one point. I know his fear, his loathing and some of his reasoning.
Fear is a powerful motivator, and it cause the largest walls to be built, to protect yourself, and others (as we see it) from everything. You build masks around your life, pretending to be something, knowing that it is a lie, but you can't let anyone see who you really are, for there is a thought that something deep inside will cause others to turn from you. To hate you. To caste you out into the depths. It is this fear that I kept me chained to my lies and masks.
I have walked a lot of his footsteps, I don't know the full story, and I am not trying to draw a correlation between his life and mine. I did not live his life, but I did mine, and I know what I went through, what I fought for and the lies that I told.
If I could say one thing to this man, it would be simple. I love you, not who you say you are, not who you pretend to be, but the person that you are, behind all the masks and fears, desires, sins, stains, scars. I know how much Christ loves me and there are days, when I can’t even love me, to know that I have hurt many people with my life and its faults, lies and deception, and that God weeps for me, but that he loves me more than anything else. God knows me and he loves me. I hope one day to actually meet Mike Guig and tell him that, to tell him that yes I don't know you, but that he is not alone, in being flawed, some of us pretend to be less flawed than others, but it doesn’t matter how much we pretend or hide, we are all flawed, and guess what Naked before God, and it matters not.
This is what the church should be saying, we should not be preaching about this, we should be praying for Mike Guig. I love him, for the man he is. I have confessed to sins, I have hidden from the world, and to be honest, ones that have shaken churches and Christians. I know the strength it takes to confess, the fear of being known with all the sins being open. The chains that you live with are the hardest to break free from, as you live with them, they are your comfort and protection, and you, at least I was, scared of who you are without them. This is a man who has faced his chains, where the hand of God has touched his heart in such a way that he can begin to shake his chains. We should not ever condemn that, but lift it up through prayer and encouragement. Yes he has sinned, I'm not taking that away, but I know what its like to live in bondage and fear, and a man has been set free, and we should rejoice in that and love him for it.
Christ did not condemn the fallen, but lifted them up. All that we have to look at is Like 7:36 - 50. Jesus' feet were washed with perfume and more importantly tears, and those around him condemned her, but Christ allowed himself to be touched by a sinner, and he forgave her sins, because she sought after him. Here we have a man who has felt the same call, to approach the Lord and confess his sins, and some of us denounce him.
I apologise for my rant, and my honesty. But I just feel that at this moment, Mike Guig needs a champion. Not that I see myself as that, or think that you guys would condemn him, but I feel for him and with him.
Joel, from Australia, who has family within the Churchs that were hurt.
Posted by: Joel R | August 27, 2008 11:14 PM
off main topic; response to Big Guy:
What if Jesus says "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."?
Or what if Jesus says, "a man cannot love God and mammon. . ."?
Though your declare "there is nothing wrong with wealth or success - period." I think you would deceive someone who does not know that you omit God's council about temptation.
Did you tell your children "there is nothing wrong with sex - period."? Or did you tell them there are a few conditions for its use, acceptable by God? Otherwise, what is called pornography would just be photojournalism of sex.
Greg
Posted by: Greg | August 28, 2008 5:38 PM
God bless Mike for public confession. That is the same good start God wants from anyone, from all of us.
Did he or does he currently hold staff position in a Church? What are the organization rules/guidelines for:
accountability?
policy of warnings before probation or termination?
policy of reconciliation and restitution for the offending staff member and for the victims of his actions?
With most evangelical congregations there is a typical bottleneck of subjective powers and controls within the church. The rules seem, sadly, based on small commercial corporation by-laws which attempt to preserve as much personal control as possible to individual "stock holders." It would be a refreshing addition of good news if Mike's church home didn't operate this way. I must doubt it, based on repeated personal experience.
The story reported refers to a DVD recording of audio and visual material. Has Mike made any plans for restitution of funds he received for his proportion of participation in the creation and sales of the DVD? Isn't that just? Reasonable? Godly?
He has clearly violated civil, common law of fraud and misrepresentation. Will his church support him in legal fees for defense against any such lawsuits? They were the spiritual "authority" over him, presumably protecting their members/consumers at least as well as a hospital protects patients, no? Are those standards too high for a "house-church?".
Despite 1 Peter 3:15 and 1 Thessalonians 5:21 calling for specific standards of responsible representation by the church to *any* who inquire, at *any* time, most church groups and even evangelical and apologetic ministries fail to implement the simple commitment to respond to every phone or mail inquiry. Most plead "impossibility." This is a specific, tiny step to start demonstrating trust/faith in God's provision.
What are the rules on justice in your local Christian group?
Greg
Posted by: Greg | August 28, 2008 6:24 PM
A couple of factual clarifications:
The Herald Sun is a Melbourne newspaper, not Sydney.
Re: the song in the charts at number 2: it charted as part of the latest Hillsong album. Every year for the past several years the newest Hillsong album enters the mainstream charts in the top-ten. In other words, it wasn't a Mike song that charted so high, it was a Hillsong album that had a Mike song on it.
Also, maybe Mike was a star, in a way, but he wasn't a superstar.
Apart from that, thank you for your thoughtful perspective.
Posted by: Grenville | September 3, 2008 4:04 AM
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