In Defense of Community Organizing (by Soong-Chan Rah)
Sarah Palin appeared poised and confident in her speech on Wednesday evening.
I have the utmost respect for her ability to juggle her role as a wife, mom, and public servant. She is to be commended for her example and particularly in her efforts to better her community through civic engagement. I may not agree with her on the specifics of her policy ideas and even how she came to some of her conclusions, but I can acknowledge that in her way, she is attempting to live out her faith values in the public arena.
So why did she, Rudy Giuliani, and the Republican Party make it a point to mock a significant portion of the population that seeks to live out their faith in the public arena through community organizing? It lent a snarky and condescending tone to Wednesday evening's speeches.
I served as an urban pastor for 10 years. In those years, I witnessed the whole range of urban problems and woes that politicians like to point out every four years or so. The wide range of issues requires different levels of response, sometimes simultaneously. There are times that immediate needs must be met by conducting canned food drives or serving at a local soup kitchen. There are times that the future takes priority and the focus is on discipling and mentoring at-risk children and youth. There are times we look at the big picture of our society and discuss ways that family values can be upheld. And then there are times when an alienated and marginalized citizenry act together to advocate for change in their neighborhood and community.
Community organizing provides an opportunity for neighborhoods and communities to work together to bring about change. It can be as small a change as a group of high school students organizing to ask for better safety and hygiene in their school bathrooms. It can be as large a change as an organization of churches and synagogues becoming one of the most significant voices advocating for universal health care. The community organization I was involved with in Boston, the Greater Boston Interfaith Organization, advocated for the rights of Haitian nurses' aides in local nursing homes. Members of Haitian immigrant churches, Jewish synagogues, and black, white, and multiethnic churches joined to advocate for Haitian nurses to bring about change. I experienced a personal joy that fellow believers in more established churches would advocate for a recent immigrant who struggled with a language barrier. My mom worked for a number of years as a nurse's aide in a senior citizen home, and I wished that Christians had advocated for her rights 30 years ago, giving her a voice and freedom that is the promise of America.
Community organizing attempts to give voice to the voiceless in our society (not just the powerful and the elite) and attempts to build influence based on relationships, rather than positions. Community organizing provides a prophetic voice because it arises from outside the system of power from the local community. Those feel to me like very biblical values.
Rev. Dr. Soong-Chan Rah is Milton B. Engebretson Assistant Professor of Church Growth and Evangelism at North Park Theological Seminary and a member of the Sojourners board. He blogs at: http://www.xanga.com/scrah
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Comments
Ya know, I usually have space in my heart and mind for the articles on this blog. And I can make room for this one.
But come on Sojo--as has been repeated--the 'sneer' at community organizing is a jab at the experience question. With all the bickering that community organizers put up with are you seriously going to present this "Palin offends commmunity organizers" as a matter of consequence.
I guess if your goal is to 'hook' readers to trigger a response--you succeeded. If this is the level of conversation you wish to draw us into--then I will withdraw from the conversation as I have been doing the last six months.
I am not offended You do not have to apologize. I just ask you change.
Posted by: letjusticerolldown | September 5, 2008 1:50 PM
Couldn't agree more with this blog post. It was a cheap shot on the part of Gov. Palin and Mayor Guiliani. Especially when you look at what Sen. Obama accomplished during his days as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago. (I've been to the South Side before - they could use more organizers like Obama.)
As a community organizer, Obama brought Catholics and Protestants together. He got the city to clean up asbestos-ridden apartments. He set up a job training program.
Being a community organizer is an honorable profession, if you ask me.
http://evangelicalforobama.blogspot.com
Posted by: John Smith | September 5, 2008 2:13 PM
Rev. Dr. Soong-Chan Rah,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your post. It is very encouraging to know that you and others are laboring in Christ's harvest field to render service "even unto the least of these."
They will know we are Christians by our love. God bless you!
Posted by: Sister Marie | September 5, 2008 2:24 PM
"So why did she, Rudy Giuliani, and the Republican Party make it a point to mock a significant portion of the population that seeks to live out their faith in the public arena through community organizing? "
1) Obama's campaign mocked her position as mayor within minutes of her announcement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I won't hold my breath waiting for a small town mayor to defend his credentials on this blog.
2) Obama's role as a community organizer was rather obviously an incubator for him. He built connections, got through Harvard Law, and built his political reputation. Obama clearly had ambitions that went beyond community organizing from the get go.
3) It is politically astute, in that the last thing Obama wants to talk about is his service as a community organizer. It creates a Catch-22.
4) Everyone who is offended by this remark was going to vote for Obama anyway.
"I am not offended You do not have to apologize. I just ask you change."
Wow. I didn't know you had it in you.
Posted by: kevin s. | September 5, 2008 2:54 PM
well, letjustice,
I think you probably have a point. It was just a jab at Obama, no disrespect meant to those in the trenches working to make their communities better.
And both sides have made their negative comments in the name of getting elected.
I wish the election could rise above this, but I think it is what we will be hearing in the next few months.
Posted by: squeaky | September 5, 2008 2:57 PM
OK - both positions have their place in community and are important. Palin's jab was an 'lol' at those who belittled her experience as a Mayor. (and I believe Gov.)
I believe it is like comparing a Doctor and a LPN. Both are vital to the medical field. But if you need to know what drug you need to know what it wrong with you. The Nurse can take you temp and blood preasure, the Doctor will be able to find out the cause and perscribe the correct treatment. I believe that the Gov. is able to make change happen where the Community Organizer will be able to bring attention to the issue.
If the drive bys and big four would not have taken the talking points about experience from the Obama crowd - this would not be an issue.
Blessings to all!
.
Posted by: big guy | September 5, 2008 2:58 PM
let justice roll down....no I completely disagree. When Sarah Palin said "I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a "community organizer," except that you have actual responsibilities". That is not about experience its a direct jab at many many people who trade the chance of much higher paid jobs for the reward of helping ordinary people (many who live in poverty or economically stressed communities) stand up to the powers that be, whether business or government interests, and hold them to account as to their responsibilities to the community. I know this firsthand as a member of a church who belongs to a faith based community organization. Our organizers do lead and do have a lot of responsibility. Sometimes it's not good enough just to feed the poor and clothe the naked, you also have to fight the injustices that cause such inequality in the first place. In any case, to see such an obviously privileged group as the RNC belittle such work is beyond contempt. It's also a little ironic that Mayors are often the people we hold to account as they are the first line of government whose policies affect local communities directly. Governors and State officials are also on that list. We all know that government is meant to be "of the people and for the people" but if it really were then we would have no need of Community Organizers at all.
Posted by: Heather | September 5, 2008 3:00 PM
I too was disappointed with the putting down of the role of a community organizer. I think that it was another political one-up-man-ship.
That being said, this type of rhetoric flies in both directions. Barack spent a good portion of his speech slamming McCain. McCain himself took a couple of jabs at Barack, although much less.
This is the way of our politics. Compare and contrast through direct attack and sound bite phrases. Most of what Obama said about McCain was baseless and shallow, but noone cared because they already had an opinion. Palin's attacks on Obama were also just sound bite simplifications and not the whole of the person. But that didn't matter either, because that is the politcal game that we all play.
No need to condemn any one person or party or comment without admitting that it is the same rules that all are playing by.
Posted by: KG | September 5, 2008 3:15 PM
I guess I'm just too partisan to evaluate with neutrality, but I felt like Biden and Obama criticized McCain on issues, while Palin criticized Obama on personal issues like his job history. And I do think there is a difference in mocking someone in a national speech versus the sort of crap that gets tossed around from both sides on the blogosphere.
Posted by: kash | September 5, 2008 3:57 PM
Let's be honest. Of course her jab was at Obama's experience. But her entire speech was snarky and dishonest. And nowhere was there any detail about the issues facing America and the world today. Why? Because they are fine with the way things are. Health Care? One of McCain's advisors said we already have universal health care - the emergency room. Phil Gramm says that we are a nation of whiners - what - people losing their homes are whiners?> We bail out the mortgage industry but fail to provide assistance to our fellow citizens and taxpayers whose families have no place to go? Our schools, bridges, roads are crumbling and we hear nothing about the plans to improve them? The wealthy hide in their gated communities while 'Rome burns'. We send our soldiers to a war zone time and time again, with little relief and provide substandard health care to those who return? What happened to 'I am my brother's keeper'? I'll tell you where it is. At the community organization level - maybe the Republicans, especially Sarah Palin, should visit.
Posted by: Candy | September 5, 2008 4:33 PM
Perhaps someone can explain what's going on here, but it seems there's a subtle shift going on here: all manner and variety of charitable and religious work is being recast as "community organizing". One effect of this is to expand the pool of the potentially aggrieved.
Barack Obama's "community organizing" work consisted of what might be otherwise be called grass-roots lobbying: he cultivated groups of citizens who then put pressure on elected officials and government bureaucrats to provide government services. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but in Barack's case it wasn't clear what results he actually achieved during this period -- that's the real issue that Gov. Palin was pointing at.
Now Rev. Rah talks about organizing soup kitchens and mentoring at-risk youth. That's all good work, but that's not really the work that Obama did.
Now maybe "community organizer" always incorporated that too, though I'm skeptical. I honestly have never heard of "community organizing" in any context other than Obama's political work prior to now. I can imagine one person moving back and forth between the political stuff that Obama did and running a soup kitchen, but otherwise this whole argument strikes me as a bit hokey.
Look, there's a history here that can't be overlooked: Barack Obama definitely belittled Palin, dismissing her as a small-town mayor without even acknowedging her service as governor. And the media's speculation about her family situation -- at one point it was alleged that her daughter Bristol had in fact given birth to Palin's son Trig -- was both poisonous and bizarre. If you're going to dish it out, you better be ready to take it.
Did Sarah Palin insult that many people? I doubt it, and if she did it certainly wasn't intentional. Maybe she needs to clarify what she meant and who she was talking about. But given the bitterness that surrounds this election, nobody should have been surprised when Palin threw an elbow of her own at Obama, and conservatives rallied around her.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but I cannot shake the suspicion that someone is trying to tie Obama's political work with more traditional charitable work, in order to shield Obama's past from examination and criticism. If by any chance that is the game you are playing, you frankly deserve whatever insults you get. It's not your place to declare Obama's past beyond criticism.
This whole thing has gotten ugly, and there aren't a whole lot of completely innocent people around. I've dished a few zingers here myself.
The bottom line is: I'd have more sympathy for Sojo and the poor insulted community organizers if Sojo had shown some concern for a Sister in Christ -- however misguided you might think she is -- when she was being dragged through the mud.
LV
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 5, 2008 4:36 PM
LV: "I'd have more sympathy for Sojo and the poor insulted community organizers if Sojo had shown some concern for a Sister in Christ -- however misguided you might think she is -- when she was being dragged through the mud."
Sojo did, in Jim's article titled "Beyond Sarah's Personality." Just scroll a couple turns below this article. I wonder why you missed it before.
Posted by: I and I | September 5, 2008 4:45 PM
"Look, there's a history here that can't be overlooked: Barack Obama definitely belittled Palin, dismissing her as a small-town mayor without even acknowedging her service as governor. LV 4:36PM"
I'd appreciate it if you would direct me to the source of your information that Obama belittled Palin.
Also, which Sister in Christ was dragged through the mud? Are you referring to Joel Osteen's wife? Sorry, I don't keep up with all that going on in the televangelism world.
Posted by: | September 5, 2008 5:11 PM
I think all of the snarky comments - rebublican or democrat - are a device to continue making this election about personality, not substance. So she can read from a teleprompter - whoopee. Do you think she actually wrote any of the stuff she read? I am sure hardly anybody we saw at either convention wrote the speeches we heard. It is sad that the most powerful nation on earth has such an inept, lame and corrupt election process based on nothing more than a candidate's ablity to make you believe the person they are running against is an evil schmuck while they themselves are somehow going to be our savior. What a crock... And from what I can see, being flippant about community organizers is just the tip of the iceberg.
Posted by: Rose | September 5, 2008 5:25 PM
Having grown up in a Right Wing town of about 3x the population of Palin's (just counting the city limits), I am aware that most of the time, the mayor position is ceremonial and they hire a Manager to run the city.
And I would vote for a community orgainizer over that any day.
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 5, 2008 5:39 PM
I was stunned when my home state (MN) elected Jesse Ventura as govenor. I lived in his hometown (Brooklyn Park) where he had been mayor of a medium sized city. I arrived at the voting site at closing time. The place was packed with the line snaking around the building.
He brought some good qualities to government, not the least of which was mobilizing a hoard of non-voters. He affirmed my belief that Joe Schmo could possibly make a great govenor.
Nevertheless, to this day I consider his election an abdication of responsibility by the electorate. These are serious positions with serious consequences.
I am not sure there is any position that 'prepares' one to be President. Hillary Clinton's 3 am phone call ad was to the point. What does McCain or Obama do when someone attempts to decapitate the government of the US, the US military leadership, and the international system? These things happen.
I frankly have trouble conceiving of a sober-minded Obama, McCain, or Palin looking in the mirror and saying--"3 am; the phone rings; I have been prepared for this challenge with God's undergirding and can realistically expect I can faithfully fulfill the duties of the Presidency over the next decade."
I understand easily how they could desire the positions. I really fail to see wisdom in their decisions. And that is a warning flag to me.
Posted by: letjusticerolldown | September 5, 2008 6:21 PM
I and I,
You've got a point about Wallis, he did note that some of the media had gotten out of line. But where's the righteous indignation? The call for an apology? The Obama slight can be overlooked -- that's politics, but some of the tabloid stuff that's been spread around about her family is just inexcusable. Wallis definitely came down harder on Palin than he did on anyone else so far.
And again, I'm not sure that the definition of "community organizer" isn't shifting around on us.
Maybe Palin owes someone an apology, but I'm much more certain that someone owes her one.
LV
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 5, 2008 6:37 PM
Regarding the community organizer insult, Obama was just out of college then. Community organizing is hardly his entire resume. I can't fathom why the Republicans thought that giving up income to serve his community was worth mocking. And you really have to be out-of-touch to even pretend community organizers have no responsibilities. Sure, they were intending to smear Obama. That was classless enough. That they insulted thousands of Americans in the process tells me who the real elitists are.
As for Palin's family being smeared, I haven't heard anything but questions from the media. When you use your "hockey motherhood" as part of your selling points, you have to expect that. I wish it weren't true, but it's the reality in today's politics. But considering the class Obama and Biden have shown regarding Palin's family being off limits, you'd think she'd show some class in return. Her speech was bad enough. Worst was her attempt to raise money in an email, accusing "Obama/Biden" democrats of smearing her family, when nothing could be further from the truth. She owes Obama a couple apologies. Then she can start with those of us whose "responsibilities" are a lot more important than she can imagine.
Posted by: Laura | September 5, 2008 7:17 PM
I didn't like it when they criticized and mocked "community organizers" either. There are lots of people working in their communities day to day who do wonderful things. Some of them post on this blog and serve as inspirations to us. There's nothing wrong with being a community organizer. In my opinion, the value of a community organizer all depends on for what purpose you're actually organizing a community.
It's to Obama's credit that he chose to work on behalf of people in his community. It's too bad he didn't stick with it longer and, instead, got lured into thinking he'd effect more change for the people in his community by running for elected office. Of course, the political jobs are a lot more lucrative and more glorious, so I can understand why he'd want to leave the organizing behind.
What Palin and others should have done was mock the idea that being a community organizer is somehow a qualification for being president of the U.S.
Posted by: Eric | September 5, 2008 7:37 PM
For clarity's sake: the "Obama slight" I referred to above was the Obama campaign's reference to Palin as a small town mayor, which disregarded Palin's experience as governor of Alaska. Not exactly edifying, but not a huge deal by itself. It's not the Obama campaign's job to make the case for Palin.
LV
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 5, 2008 9:25 PM
"Look, there's a history here that can't be overlooked: Barack Obama definitely belittled Palin, dismissing her as a small-town mayor without even acknowedging her service as governor."
LV 4:36 PM
"For clarity's sake: the "Obama slight" I referred to above was the Obama campaign's reference to Palin as a small town mayor, which disregarded Palin's experience as governor of Alaska. Not exactly edifying, but not a huge deal by itself. It's not the Obama campaign's job to make the case for Palin."
LV 9:25 PM
It seems that when you don't have the facts to support your case, one can simply make them up.
Posted by: Sister Marie | September 5, 2008 9:37 PM
Obama's comment about Palin being a small town mayor was questioning her experience to possibly be president. It is what a politician does. Both Obama's and Biden's speeches at the convention criticized McCain's policies, as they should, but never got tacky. Palin's comment about community organizers was mean, sarcastic and childish. There is a difference. Her comment about "after he parts the waters and heals the environment" was also inexcusable.
Biden and Obama HAVE walked the high road with regards to Palin's daughter's pregnancy. The first thing Obama said was, "Families are off limits". The only thing I would say to that is that Sara Palin seems to want it both ways -- don't mention her pregnant daughter, but when it comes to her son who is about to go to Iraq, she want all the attention she can get on that.
Palin also plays the "press is picking on me" game very well. She is not being treated any differently than a man with her lack of experience would be. In fact, does anyone out there think that McCain would have picked a man running mate who no one had ever heard of and whose qualifications are a bachelor's degree in journalism, small town mayor and governor of a state for two years? Of course not!!
Posted by: gingersp | September 5, 2008 9:46 PM
I know this is a couple days late and probably not going to be read by Mr. Wallis et. al., but I want to write my sincere thanks. As a community organizer and follower of Christ I was extremely disappointed by the caustic remarks from Mayor Guilani and Gov. Palin. My job as a PICO community organizer has been one of the greatest blessing of my life--where I get to engage with ordinary citizens to imagine the world as God intended for it to be, and begin building the Kingdom of God in my city.
Thanks for writing a defense, and coming alongside the thousands of community organizers (many of diverse faith backgrounds) attempting to bring Shalom to our communities.
Blessings.
-j.
Posted by: Jay | September 5, 2008 9:58 PM
I didn't hear anyone mock Sara Palin's expierence as a mayor. or anything else. I think Laura's post is right on...especially the second paragraph. Thanks!..
Further I would ask what do folks think it would be like if Mr. Obama had picked for vice president someone who very few people had heard of, whose politics and world view were far more left leaning then his own, and who had as little expierence as Ms. Palin. And yes i do think the RNC would have had a field day with the sort of family issue the Palin's are facing, though of course there is not way to prove it.
Posted by: Ross | September 5, 2008 10:01 PM
Context, Sister Marie, context.
The first time I mentioned that slight, I was going through the history and explaining why Palin said what she said. The second quote came when I was talking about the sorts of things that Wallis might want to take an explicit stand on if he valued civility more than ideology. The Obama campaign's slight of Palin's experience was part of the history, but not such a big deal that I would have expected Wallis to call him on it -- Palin took care of that herself.
The media's violation of Palin's private life, their butchering of the Alaska Independence Party story -- that was inexcusable, and I would have liked to have seen Wallis call for an apology on that.
As far as the community organizer insult, basically what Palin said is "my job as Mayor of Wasilla was tougher than yours". You can argue whether that's true or not (again, a lot depends on just who is considered a "community organizer") but Palin is entitled to her own opinion on that. The media is not entitled to its own facts. Sarah's husband, not Sarah herself, was a member of the Alaska Independence Party, and Trig was her son, nobody else's.
Sarah Palin is owed an apology. I'm not convinced that Sarah Palin owes one to anyone else right now.
I've always understood "community organizing" as paid low-level political hack work, Saul Alinsky stuff. If you can show me that non-political charity or religious work was regularly referred to as "community organizing" prior to last wednesday, you might have a legitimate gripe. If you can't, you don't.
LV
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 5, 2008 10:50 PM
Kevin S. wrote:
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Since you ordinarily traffic in this kind of playground ethic instead of those of the Kingdom of God, let me explain the difference:
1)Obama was telling the truth about a very serious social problem, that of provincialism and bigotry in the "red" areas of the country.
2)Palin was either lying or just talking out of her rear, depending on how much credit you give her for intelligence.
Everyone who is offended by this remark was going to vote for Obama anyway.
Nope, not even close.
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 5, 2008 11:44 PM
Re LV 9/5/08 2250
If after reading the original post by Rev. Dr. Soong-Chan Rah, you still are having difficulty understanding what a community organizer is, then I can't help you. I watched Palin's speech and it was obvious to me that what she said and the sarcastic way in which she said it that her concept of community organizers is congruent with the "paid low-level hack work" that you described above.
There is a Methodist Church less than a mile from my home. During the winter months they open the church to provide meals to the homeless and also to provide a rudimentary place for them to sleep sheltered from the cold. The church depends on volunteers to serve food and to be present at the church during the night. It might surprise some of you that there are many people involved in such volunteer work or at most performing thankless tasks for very low compensation. I still believe that Sarah Palin was wrong to trash the contribution that these men and women perform.
Earlier this evening, I asked you to provide the basis for your 4:36 statement:
"Look, there's a history here that can't be overlooked: Barack Obama definitely belittled Palin, dismissing her as a small-town mayor without even acknowedging her service as governor. LV 4:36PM"
When you are caught making things up, you simply change the subject. There's an old admonition against wrestling with pigs that is applicable here. My advice to those who submit honest contributions to this blog is to simply ignore the crap that they keep repeating with absolutely no foundation. Perhaps, in time, they will take their invective to talk radio - a medium that they definitely control. Good night.
Posted by: Sister Marie | September 5, 2008 11:50 PM
I'm confused. Evangelicals seem to adore Sarah Palin. However, isn't her slanderous commentary towards Obama a bit contradictory in keeping with the ethics of Christianity? ....for example, Palin's beration of community organizers as responsible leaders. Well...wasn't our Savior a community organizer? I guess it's just another example of Republican selective memory.
Reed McGowan
NYC
Posted by: Reed McGowan | September 6, 2008 12:00 AM
"I watched Palin's speech and it was obvious to me that what she said and the sarcastic way in which she said it that her concept of community organizers is congruent with the 'paid low-level hack work' that you described above.
Interesting. You left out the word "political", but left in the word "hack". Was that intentional? How I answer will depend a lot on that.
As for Obama ignoring her term as mayor, I was referring in particular to this:
-----
Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."
Source: Huffington Post
-----
Again, by itself, not the end of the world. But in the midst of all the other crap that was flying around at the time, it looked like a lie that needed to be refuted in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 6, 2008 10:09 AM
LV,
You said "it's unclear what results" Barack Obama achieved during his stint as a community organizer in the mid 1980s.
Here's one. Working with residents of the Chicago Housing Authority's Altgeld Gardens Housing Project, Obama helped residents put pressure on the CHA to remove dangerous insulation (asbestos and angel hair), have a library built, and improve access to public transportation.
Admittedly, this isn't glamorous work--especially for one who has been caricatured as a mere celebrity--but it reflects the kind of concerns that were important to Barack Obama as a young man.
I agree that it was merely a political jab meant to deflect questions about Gov. Palin's own meager record. However, it was a bit ironic that the GOP made mocking the experience once gets from community service a theme of the convention speeches less than 24 hours after they made SERVICE the theme of the day!
Blessings and all good things!
--Mark
Posted by: Mark, Cleveland, OH | September 6, 2008 10:33 AM
Jesus was a community organizer.
Pontius Pilate was a governor.
Enough said!
Posted by: Veritas | September 6, 2008 10:37 AM
"Look, there's a history here that can't be overlooked: Barack Obama definitely belittled Palin, dismissing her as a small-town mayor without even acknowedging her service as governor. LV 4:36PM"
"Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."
Source: Huffington Post"
The above is what you get when you catch the right-wingers lying. The first post - well, you can read it for yourself. When they do not have the facts, they make things up.
Please do not tolerate the continued lies from the right wing. That's how we ended up in the mess we find ourselves today. If you want four more years of what we have witnessed during the last eight, cast your vote for McCain
Posted by: Sister Marie | September 6, 2008 12:07 PM
Sister Marie,
All right. You got me. Your brilliant powers of observation -- reading through one of my own posts -- have revealed my nefarious plan to make what was never a big deal into a slightly bigger deal.
Curses, foiled again.
This is all a big quibble. Yeah, they used the title "Governor", but the focus was entirely on her term as Mayor of Wasilla. That was what Palin was responding to. I said very explicitly that I didn't expect anyone outside of the McCain/Palin campaign to respond to this, that Palin could take care of it herself, and she did, and that's that.
I resent your accusation that I was lying. If I was trying to deceive, why did I give you that quote? At most, you caught me exaggerating. For the sake of moving beyond this bit of political trivia I'll plead no contest to that.
Now that that's settled, could you please tell me why anyone who does regular non-political charitable work should feel the least bit insulted by Gov. Palin's comments about "community organizers"?
Lord Voldemort
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 6, 2008 1:32 PM
Mark, you are right. John McCain all but took credit for the way that the people of New Orleans got through Hurricane Gustav (actually the work of community servants), then Palin so sarcastically mocked community service two days later. What a hypocrite!!
Posted by: gingersp | September 6, 2008 2:55 PM
Posted by: Veritas | September 6, 2008 10:37 AM
Jesus was a community organizer.
Pontius Pilate was a governor.
Enough said!
BULL - BULL - and more BULL!
To say Jesus was a CM is to cheepen the role of the Son of God - but it does give Obama the savior role which is the intent.
Pilate was 'appointed' to the office by Rome - not elected like Palin.
And why are you comparing the Rep second banana to the Dem first banana? Maybe because their first banana is really good and has the experience and didn't have to assinate someones career to get to the senate from the state of IL?
Blessings to all!
.
Posted by: big guy | September 6, 2008 5:49 PM
big guy--can you not make your points without dismissive remarks such as
"BULL - BULL - and more BULL!"
You may disagree with the point made, but there is no need to be disrespectful about it.
I honestly don't understand why it is such a big deal whether or not Jesus can be considered a community organizer. Why is it an insult? Why does it cheapen his role as the Son of God?
All it says is that ONE of the MANY of His roles as Son of God was to organize the community of believers. He directly hand-picked and organized His community of 12 disciples. Another poster, perhaps on another thread, argued that through the Holy Spirit, He organized Christian communities around their faith in His salvation. In fact, we can argue that any Christian community of Faith since Pentacost has been organized by Him. Why is that so offensive an idea to you?
By your logic, is would also be offensive to say that Christ was a healer or that Christ was a miracle worker. Or that Christ was a teacher. Again, these are just some of the things He did, and it is true to say that He was all those things and more. In none of those statements is it necessary to assume that was ALL He was.
I don't agree that the intent of these statements is to give the Savior role to Obama. If you take the comment in the context of the discussion, you will note that people are trying to show that the role of community organizer is not an insignificant occupation, and they are arguing that it is an honorable role, one shared by our Savior Himself.
Why is it so bad for Democrats to be excited about their candidate? Shouldn't we be excited about our candidate? Would it be better if we were half-hearted about him and said "well, we'll vote for him grudgingly because he is the lesser of two evils. Ho hum. Maybe someone better will come along next time."
I think for most Republicans the reaction comes from jealousy because they aren't nearly as excited by their candidate as the Democrats are...in fact, they are clearly more excited about Palin than they are McCain. McCain chose Palin only because he saw her as someone who could mobilize the base, and for no other reason (except maybe to pull away Clinton supporters).
You are right--we shouldn't compare her to Obama. The people we should be comparing her to are the people McCain passed over to choose her. Compare her experience level to any of the other VP candidates, and any one of them is far more qualified than she is. McCain said he would choose someone who would be ready to be president TODAY. Palin is not that person. But, there were plenty of other candidates who are--Pawlenty, Romney, Lieberman, Guilianni. All of these guys have more experience in their little toe than she has, and yet they got the shaft. The question isn't does she have more experience than Obama, but does she have more experience than the candidates who were passed over for her sake?
Posted by: squeaky | September 6, 2008 6:57 PM
Everbody give Moddertlass a few more days to listen to Rush n Savage n O'Rieley n Haniddy, and she'll be able to do better than "Bull ! and Bull doo-doo ! and Bull horse hocky ! and extra Bull !!" See, they're not on during weekends so she's unclear on the talkingg points .
Im pretty sure that Big Guy is actully a Girl and its' way clever to post on here that way becausse its a secrete identidy. Wouldn't be surprised if she's a ministir's wife - - or maybe Kevin's wife or Peter's ..
Whatever the real identify of Big Dude is Im sure we all agree ---- he's a great regular on here !! Yayyyyy Big Guy !!!!! We luuuuuvvvvv yuuuuuuu!!!!!
Posted by: Bud Duncan | September 6, 2008 8:54 PM
Is it McCain-Palin or Palin-McCain? In seeing them together in Colorado Springs today, she seemed to be the one doing all the talking and he stood by and smiled. I've heard other news clips that have "fans" shouting "Pa-lin, Pa-lin". Shouldn't they be shouting for McCain? Something is very strange here.
Posted by: gingersp | September 6, 2008 9:41 PM
OK Bud...that was just....
weird
It doesn't add much to the discussion, either, and a bit too Palin-like in rhetorical style to be an acceptable form of discourse here. Let us all rise above her as we speak to each other with love and respect.
Posted by: squeaky | September 6, 2008 9:47 PM
Rah ... first I want to express my respect for all the good community organizers who have done good jobs. However, on Palin & Rudy, I want you to keep their speeches in context. Since the announcement of Palin as VP, she has been unfairly attacked by Obama "troopers" like a flood. She is probably the most popular mayor and governor in the whole United States, and yet her work as mayor and governor was belittled by the media and Obama "troops". To diminish/block the damage, Palin just jabbed back at Obama, not intended for community organizers, who do great jobs without pay. Even here, two blogs were written back to back against her (by Rah & Wallis). Taken out of context, who will write the blogs to defend mayors and governors?
Posted by: Peacemaker | September 7, 2008 3:01 AM
Posted by: Bud Duncan | September 6, 2008 8:54 PM
I assure you that I am all male - period. But you can say and think what you want because it still is a free country.
So tipical of many on this site - blast the persons character and mock them if they are conservative - whatever.
I had a job until the DFL controled congress in my state failed to fund education and caused many districts to cut back. So now I am looking for a jab which is a FT job in itself - no time to listen to the radio and those programs. You see - there are conservatives out there that can think for themselves. Liberals just get their talking points from the Big Four - ABC-CBS-NBC-CNN. (lol)
I am not a prophet but I will say that within 3 weeks or 4 - there will be articles form Sojo and Co. attacking the character of the McCain - Palin ticket just like the Big Four. I look forward to reading them.
Blessing to all!
.
Posted by: big guy | September 7, 2008 10:19 AM
Meanwhile, here's John Judis in the upcoming edition of the New Republic:
"In truth, however, if you examine carefully how Obama conducted himself as an organizer and how he has conducted himself as a politician, if you consider what he said about organizing to his fellow organizers, and if you look at the reasons he gave friends and colleagues for abandoning organizing, then a very different picture emerges: that of a disillusioned activist who fashioned his political identity not as an extension of community organizing but as a wholesale rejection of it. Indeed, the most important thing to know about Barack Obama's time as a community organizer in Chicago may not be what he gained from the experience--but rather why, in late 1987, he decided to quit."
On Obama's accomplishments as a Community Organizer:
Next, he began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens. 'We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools,' he wrote. 'But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired.' Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.) In waging these campaigns, Obama's organization added staff, gained adherents, and won church support, including from the congregation of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But it failed to stem the area's overall decline. 'Ain't nothing gonna change, Mr. Obama,' says one resident quoted in Dreams from My Father who grows disillusioned with the Developing Communities Project. 'We just gonna concentrate on saving our money so we can move outta here as fast as we can.'"
On the inherent nobility of Community Organizing along the model established by Saul Alinski:
"Obama ... was clearly troubled by the example of SON/SOC, which suggested that an organization, acting on Alinsky's principles, could become racist. (Indeed, Alinsky's first group, the Back of the Yards Neighborhood Council, had become a bastion of support for segregationist George Wallace in the 1960s.)"
I should point out that Judis describes community organizing as something distinct from politics. In one sense it is: Community Organizing, at least as imagined by Alinsky, tends to keep a distance from electoral campaigns. On the other hand, much of what it does is directed at influencing elected officials and bureaucrats. This is what I mean when I describe this work as "political".
Judis also explains the role of Saul Alinski in creating the "Community Organizer" role. Among Alinski's principles is the idea that organizing must focus entirely on self-interest. Obama's training and work was largely based on Alinski's model.
Now you may accept this or not, but Judis is not considered particularly conservative, and TNR is a fairly left-of-center publication. The point is, one does not have to be a fire-breathing Republican to see problems in "Community Organizing", at least when it is based on the theories of Saul Alinski.
LV
Posted by: Lord Voldemort | September 7, 2008 3:23 PM
I don't know that anyone else has already said this cuz I haven't read all the comments, nor do I have the time to do so. But I read some of them and regardless of who took shots at who first, Palin's jab at community organizers is completely uncalled for. And it wasn't just Palin, of course, nor just Giuliani either. It was also the roaring cheers from the crowd at the RNC. So essentially you had an entire party of people (perhaps there were some dissenters) who were jeering community organizers. They didn't have to cheap shot community organizers to say Barack Obama doesn't have experience. Not that I agree with that statement but it is an arguable point. Regardless, their ends definitely do not justify their means. There is no way of getting around it.
Posted by: Pobreza Amada | September 7, 2008 5:43 PM
Looks like we still are running away form the actual issue: Whether or not a small-town mayor actually has more tangible responsibilites than a CO. That's what Palin actually said, so why don't we do the work of proving her right or wrong? Forget Alinsky, that's all beside the point.
Posted by: Kevin Wayne | September 7, 2008 6:01 PM
Laird Voldemort: "Now you may accept this or not, but Judis is not considered particularly conservative, and TNR is a fairly left-of-center publication."
LV, thanks for the reference to the Judis piece. Extremely interesting.
As someone who is very left-of-center, I'd say TNR is "barely" rather than "fairly" left-of-center, if at all. Compare it with The Nation or Mother Jones, or for that matter with Harper's and Atlantic Monthly. Though it has famously recanted, TNR initially supported the war in Iraq. TNR was tight with the Democratic Leadership Council, which as Bill Clinton once admitted, could easily have found room for the policies of the Eisenhower administration. It's a measure of how far to the right the political center of gravity has moved since the Seventies.
Posted by: carl copas | September 7, 2008 7:56 PM
There is a website out there, and I forget the name of it, but it was on NPR, that claimed Sarah Palin's daughter had the down's syndrome baby and Sarah faked a pregnancy to cover it up. That is why Palin came forward and told that her daughter is pregnant.
Just because you didn't "hear" such a remark doesn't mean it wasn't said.
The slam against Community Organizers is nothing in comparison to that. You might be on the defensive too, if the same was said about you.
Isn't more of this about the fact that Obama isn't a shoe-in any more?
Posted by: U TOO | September 8, 2008 11:29 AM
Delores, I couldn't agree more!
Posted by: canucklehead | September 8, 2008 7:04 PM
The origional jab was aimed at Palin from the Dem macine and was contrasted with Obama's being a community organizer. There is nothing wrong with being a CO - they are needed everywhere. But a CO is not an elected official like a Mayor or a Govn. To make the compairson of Christ ie the CO and Pilate is the Govenor was only put out there to give Obama the 'savior' mantle and make Palin take the mantle of one who was part of the process of condeming the Savior. Have to admit - good political fodder.
So - MSNBC removes two of their anchors - WOW. You mean they were not being objective in their reporting - shock.
Blessings to all
.
Posted by: big guy | September 9, 2008 9:59 AM
U TOO: "Just because you didn't "hear" such a remark doesn't mean it wasn't said. The slam against Community Organizers is nothing in comparison to that."
Excuse me, but that comment doesn't make any sense. 'Just because you didn't "hear" such a remark doesn't mean it wasn't said'? That's like saying, "I know a guy who heard someone at his work saying that they know for a fact that John McCain called Obama the n-word." I never heard that, so, by your reckoning, it may have been said and Obama should go on the attack because of it? That's crazy. However, the slam against community organizers WAS said and WAS heard, and if Gov. Palin is reacting to something she heard someone else say in that ridiculous a manner, she's FAR too volatile to be Vice President.
But of course, it's probably true that she didn't write the speech. Let's hope so.
Posted by: JEM | September 9, 2008 1:55 PM
"So - MSNBC removes two of their anchors - WOW. You mean they were not being objective in their reporting - shock.
Blessings to all"
They only removed them from covering the election. They still have their shows.
p
Posted by: Payshun | September 9, 2008 2:04 PM
It's a good thing that there is such a serious discussion about community organizing, but the danger is to lower ourselves to the level of the speeches at the RNC (http://blogs.pioneerlocal.com/religion). I mean, Palin isn't Pontius Pilate and such a comparison is an equally low jab, isn't it?
Posted by: Brett | September 9, 2008 10:22 PM
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