Doing a little surfing around the internet, I came across this blog post about a call for repentence. The blog appears to be part of a ministry of Grace Bible Church and is a preview of a message for Grace Academy High School Chapel.
But it was definitely thought provoking, and I have to say I’ve often pondered the point brought up in this paragraph:
“But for all the attention and energy we give, for all the flash web sites we’ve made and contextualized clothing we wear and language we’ve embraced, for all the slick marketing brochures we pass out and “Christian” rock music we produce and play, for all the “relevant” and timely sermon series and Christian celebrity appearances, for all the cool Christian t-shirts, for all the gentle conversations we engage in, for all the evangelism programs and English translations and focused study Bibles/Biblezines, for all the WWJD and Livestrong bracelets, for all the Christian Facebook groups, it really doesn’t seem like we are changing the world at all. In fact, if anything, it seems like the world is changing us, conforming us into its image. We are far from being accused of “turning the world upside down” like the early church (cf. Acts 17:1-9, especially verse 6).”
The author of this blog suggest that the answer isn’t culturally relevant rock or clothing but:
“If we want to change the world, to turn it upside down, we’ve got to start at the beginning, with REPENTANCE. Repentance is a change of mind, a turning about and away from sin. It is a recognition and lamentation and confession of unrighteousness, that results in new affection for, and a new direction toward, righteousness. Repentance is where new life starts. Repentance is where disciple-making begins. Remember, Christ didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
So what do you think? For all of our flashy, cool, trendy products and music, the world certainly does look much like it does without any Christian influence. Are we focusing our efforts in the wrong place? And focusing on Christian music, how can Christian music artists balance being culturally relevant with sharing the basic message of sin and grace?
And before you remind me that I’m the one who has a hard time pointing a finger at someone and proclaiming “sinner,” I admit it, especially when I know the sin in my own life, or the wretch that I was before Jesus. I’m more about the “Do you know Jesus loves you” message. But I do see where we tend to focus on flash and style, and even on the love, without the message that there’s sin we need to be forgiven for.
So what do you think?
posted October 30, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Does Christian Rock change anything? Does Christian Art change anything? Do Christian books? I look at my own ministry at times of frustration and wonder does preaching change anything? It may not be the right question. Jesus changes things. the music, the art, the teaching and preaching are tools, what really makes the change is the work of the Spirit of God. One of my life verses says each one should whatever gifts he has received to serve others. It leads me to believe that as an artist and as a preacher, I am called to be a faithful servant, doing what God calls me to do to the best of my ability and trust Him with the results. People gifted to create music should create it to the glory of God and put it out there so that the Spirit of God will use it as a tool to knock on the door of someone’s heart and bring that person to love Jesus, or repentance or action as the Lord desires.
posted October 30, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I have been pondering this same question for years now, and these past few weeks I’ve been searching the internet about this subject and reading books like “Rapture Ready,” which I first read about on this blog.
Christian rock is one aspect of modern day American Christianity, which itself seems to be very individualistic and capitalistic in nature. Look at how Christian singers and bands and leaders are put on lofty, high pedestals, getting awards and applause for their music and books and sermons just like secular artists, authors, and motivational speakers do. These Christians have “merch” tables (and I hate that term for merchandise but it’s used all the time in Christian circles) where you are almost expected to buy a t-shirt, book, CD, DVD etc. after you’ve witnessed “worship.” Ok…
American Christianity is very focused on putting out there the idea that “God helps ME/God makes ME better.” That seems to be its central theme. And a whole slew of stuff– “merch” — and related things, like concerts, festivals, and seminars, are in place to support the selling of merch using God as a great way to make money. After all, most people want to believe in something bigger than themselves, and what is the obvious choice to believe in, in America? Jesus Christ. And if they want to fit in and join the Christian club, they’re going to need to buy a Christian rock CD, listen to a Christian talk show, wear a t-shirt with the name Jesus on it.
So does all this stuff like Christian rock “change anything?” Well, it does give people jobs and something to do that’s not “secular,” which they, if they’re fervent in their faith, will deem as “bad.” I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard acquaintances tell me how something I like is bad because it’s “not Christian.”
Ironically, most Christians seem to live very much in both the Christian and secular worlds at the same time, listening to Michael W. Smith in concert one night and then going to see a Quentin Tarantino flick the next, praising his violent movies for being so cool.
The two megachurches I’ve attended locally look and feel like places of commerce, like malls with auditoriums and huge video screens and dramatic lighting and cafes and pool tables, and frankly, I miss the simplicity and non-commercial feel of the Catholic churches I attended growing up, where they didn’t have celebrated singers, speakers, or merch tables.
Back to the main topic: what does Christian rock do? It allows soccer moms to offer their kids concerts to go to where people generally won’t be drunk, high, and swearing. Interestingly, these Christian rock concerts will still feel a bit like secular ones when you go see all the young kids dressed in black clothes, with their multiple tattoos and piercings, bright pink/blue/etc. colored hair– looking a lot “like the world.” Apparently, though, these kids are probably “saved,” and their parents are glad they’re at a Kutless concert instead of a Marilyn Manson one.
One last point: Christian rock generally is only known to a subset of Christians, which means that’s a small market indeed. Newsboys can get played on 300 radio stations and play church events, while an artist like Pink or Mariah Carey can get played on 3,000 stations and play stadiums and appear on Letterman, Leno, The View, the cover of Rolling Stone, MTV, VH1, and on and on and on. Who has a hold on today’s youth in general? Christian rockers or secular singers? Exactly! So Christian rock is a nice thing for a select few, but it’s not exactly mattering to the world at large, is it?
If I had my way, “Christian rock” would be abolished, and all those bands would not be allowed to play at churches or Christian festivals, instead forced to compete AND contribute to “the world at large” while the church would get back to praying together and away from inviting celebs into their services to make people feel excited for an hour or two.
posted October 30, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Wow, there are some very cynical views expressed towards Christian music. Where to begin? Part of the premise of the original article on the Grace Bible Church website is that Christian music (rock in particular, for some reason) is supposed to change the world. I’m not sure there are many artists who express that as their purpose. I’ve seen more bands than I can remember, and only a handful of them will spend time evangelizing, preaching, giving a testimony at length, whatever you want to call it. Many of them will give honor to Christ, mention it between songs, etc., but not spend much time preaching. I do not see this as a negative.
Next, people assume all the musicians are doing this to make money, gain fame or awards. It’s been mentioned in a post before on this site about the “myth of the millionaire musician.” Most of the rock acts out there tour thru most of the year and the evil “merch” is merely a way to support that. Nobody is forcing you to purchase the t-shirts or cds. How else are they going to support themselves? Love offerings? We all know that would not work. This isn’t the 70s and Keith Green would have a merch table if he was still around. I’m not asking anyone to feel sorry for them, just understand why money is needed. Where are all the posts demonizing the “Fireproof” movie out right now since it has made more than $20 MILLION dollars? All the Christian rock bands combined will never reach that total.
As far as making an impact in people’s lives, I can think of a few bands off the top of my head (Seventh Day Slumber, Skillet, and Demon Hunter) who have written songs that have helped people get thru suicidal thoughts, drugs, depression, etc. Are nations around the world turning to Christ because Disciple can rock? No, but that doesn’t mean they still do not make an impact.
I guess the main debate comes down to whether or not you think Christian rock music should be entertainment or evangelism. I see it as entertainment with the added benefit of enhancing my spiritual life and getting the Gospel to some who might not be looking.
I support Christian rock music and will defend it til the end.
posted October 30, 2008 at 8:23 pm
It’s not about us changing the world. It’s about the Holy Spirit changing us and changing the world through us. Scripture says that the angels in heaven rejoice when just one soul is saved. So if all of what “we do” only brings one person at those concerts or conferences or whatever to Christ, then the Heavens are pleased.
posted October 31, 2008 at 9:15 am
A very interesting subject to which I’m seeing alot of personal opinions being shared. But let’s take a look at God’s opinion of it all. THE BIBLE. Not the internet, not other reference books. These are all handy tools today, but must be used with caution. They are not infallible, but God’s Word is. It seem like the church today has become worldly and the world has become churchy. It’s difficult for the sinner to distinguish between the two. Repentance has been thrown out of most churches, and things like these “Christian Rock Bands” have been ushered in. THE BIBLE SAYS . . . Jas 3:10 – 11 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] and bitter? We cannot be partakers of both worlds (God’s and Satans). Many have become so concerned with “not judging” and being accused of judging, that they have lost sight of who God really is. He’s Holy! This is what he said to his people . . . Le 20:7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I [am] the LORD your God. It’s in the New Testament and the Old. The bottom line is we can’t win the world by joining them. Yes Jesus ate with the Publicans and sinners, but he never one time compromised His fathers Holy standard. The Bible also tells us in Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your BODIES a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
posted October 31, 2008 at 10:03 am
Jeff, I PROMISE I am not demonizing Christian music artists. I’m the voice for those very acts like you mention, who make enough money from one show to put gas in the van to drive to the next one. And that’s a far bigger majority of the industry than the big names on tour buses, I promise.
But from a Christian culture, it’s definitetly a point to consider. Perhaps we need to go back to the basics – talking about sin and repentance more than our hip t-shirts and Christian energy drinks and sneakers (yes, those exist).
Some acts do that – Seventh Day Slumber is probably the best example you could have picked to highlight. They are just amazing when it comes to sharing the gospel. I think they are the perfect example that marrying a solid, basic gospel message of sin, repentance and mercy with culturally relevant rock music can be done with grace, and done well.
Joanne
host of the GS blog
posted October 31, 2008 at 10:05 am
>>church today has become worldly and the world has become churchy. It’s difficult for the sinner to distinguish between the two.>>
Scott, that is an excellent point. Well said.
Joanne
host of the GS blog
posted October 31, 2008 at 11:06 am
Joanne,
Thanks for responding. I love your blog and keep up with on my RSS reader. I didn’t necessarily mean YOU were demonizing them, but rather the mindset that somehow because the music is modern, contemporary, or comparable(I’d assert that many Christian bands are musically superior to their secular counterparts) to secular music that it is wrong.
Just like with the mega-church worship cds, Christian tshirts, movies, etc., if you substitute them for the Real Thing, then you are missing the point. But I do not think any band or church seeks to replace God. You could take that logic and extend it pretty far– “this blog doesn’t have a salvation message anywhere in it, so it’s useless.” Sounds ridiculous, huh? This blog serves a purpose just like all the other aspects of the Christian life. It’s for people who are interested in this type of thing.
Call me worldly, humanist, emergent, or whatever keyword is out there right now, but I do not see anything wrong with Christians using whatever talents they have to glorify God and reach others who may not otherwise be looking for it. I don’t see anything wrong with churches/bands/preachers/missionaries/individuals looking for new and fresh ways to relate to a changing society. The Gospel doesn’t change, but WE must adapt or risk becoming ineffective and stale.
posted October 31, 2008 at 11:57 am
Jeff, I totally agree. I heard someone say once that the methods change but the message never should.
Thanks for reading! You don’t know how much I appreciate it!!
Joanne
host of the GS blog
posted October 31, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Jeff,
The Bible says that God changeth not. So he never becomes ineffective and stale, and I’m sure you know that this is what this thing is all about. Him!!! God!!! In fact the Bible says in Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. another verse found in Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not . . . He never changes, his Word never changes, no matter how many times they try to rewrite it. Christ always represents the Heavenly Father, and we are to do the same. Does “Christian Rock Music” glorify the Heavenly Father? Does looking like the world, acting like the world and being worldly symbolize the Kingdom of God? The Kingdom of good or Evil? Again this is what the Bible says in 1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. The Bible plainly tells us that the lover of worldly things hates God and God hates lovers of worldly things. Heres the scripture found in Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. That word enmity means a deep mutual hatred. Those who love the world hate God and God hates those who love the world. God loves the sinner, but God hates sin. These “Christian Rock Concerts” are not teaching people to repent of their sins and be born again. To REPENT means “to turn from”. There’s no change the only difference is they have now incorporated the name Jesus or God into theis songs. Some will say their believers. The Bible says the devils in hell believe and they tremble. (see Jas 2:19) But the Bible tells us in Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; Jesus said Many shall come in that day saying Lord, Lord, but he’ll say I never knew you. A life that’s been changed by the saving grace of Jesus Christ WILL SHOW A CHANGE!
posted October 31, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I knew that when I ended my post with “The Gospel doesn’t change, but WE must adapt or risk becoming ineffective and stale” that it would draw people offsides.
Scott, you open your post with “God changeth not.” I do not dispute that. If you’ll read what I actually wrote, you would see that.
In my original post (#3) I mentioned that there is a difference between entertainment and evangelism. If you subscribe to the idea that nothing Christian can be called entertainment because you don’t like the way that sounds, then so be it. This whole subject came up because someone wrote a piece that Christian music was failing to bring the world to Christ and cause everyone to repent. My point is that I don’t believe that is the expressed purpose of Christian music (rock, hip-hop, contemporary..any of it). People aren’t going to hear a song, fall to their knees and receive salvation. No matter who is singing or what style they sing.
I have found a few things to be true in my experience with Christian rock music. Some of them write songs directly aimed at evangelizing. Some write songs about things they have gone thru in their lives, and how their faith helped them. Some write songs rejecting the world and all that it represents. I would like to know what artists out there you deem worthy of listening to?
We can take your logic that it “looks like the world” as far as you want– Does your church have electricity? The world uses electricity AND it’s not even mentioned in the Bible. Do you drive a car? Worldly people drive cars too. Do you cause people to repent as you conduct your daily life at work?
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, just stop trying to make those that play it or listen to it seem like they’re doing something wrong.
posted October 31, 2008 at 2:17 pm
It doesn’t seem to be making many changes, but I don’t think it’s the Christian culture of artistic expression that is the reason for the “non-change,” I think it has a lot do with the example of love, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, or the lack thereof, that we show. By our actions they will know whether or not we’re true, and our actions will be tested by our words. When we forget that Christ is THE ONLY REASON any of us have been redeemed, we show it. When we forget that it was not us who called ourselves to Christ in the first place, we show it. When we sit in judgement of someone who is not like us, does like believe as we do, or even has the audacity to question the very existance of The One we worship, we show it. All of the Christian artistic expression is lost on this dying world when we “show” how much we are like it, when we forget who sustains us.
posted November 1, 2008 at 7:24 am
I listen to all forms of Christain music and love it. Music can up lift and make the spirit move.
posted November 1, 2008 at 8:48 am
As God has given us each free will, we are each therefore individually responsible for allowing Him to change us from glory to glory. If we did not have Christians in Rock, then Rock fans would be less likely to hear the message. I do not think that Christian Rock is ‘lacking’ in it’s particular function, to get the message to those whom otherwise would probably not hear. Let’s keep this thing in perspective; it’s not as though Christian Rock is supposed to be taking the place of prayer and devotion, or being linked in with a local fellowship, or of repentance on a personal level. It is what it is, it is a good and positive thing, but Christian Rock in itself is not the answer to all of our problems; it merely points us in the right direction, to Christ, the One who IS mighty to save and IS worthy of ALL praise, now and evermore!
posted November 1, 2008 at 8:54 am
Well I never post anything anywhere but this reaches in to me. First I don’t think there is any perfect way on earth to solve this debate, it is touchy to some people. Having said that I would like to tell you firstly that I play drums in Christian rock bands and in praise and worship settings also. Now, we would go to the drug ridden areas and offer the people free food, free Bibles, and free music, and the word of God. Well some of the people in this event only come to get maybe a meal that they maybe needed, and others only want to see what is going on and others come that are maybe interested in God but don’t know how to come to him and just want to check it out to see if it would be an ordeal to them or whatever the reason. I know God would stop the world to save any of us, when one of the flock has gone astray, we would leave the flock and go get the stray and bring him back to the rest. I think in these street ministries, although maybe not perfect, are greatly needed. The music is only a tool that we use to get someones attention so they will have a chance to hear the word of God. If your playing music that one can relate to then perhaps they will listen to the message, perhaps. The word of God never misses it’s mark even if we don’t see where it hits!! I have seen people come to Christ in these events, including one woman who appeared to be a working girl, walking two blocks away holding her hands above her head crying all the time as she approached the stage to confess how bad she thought she was and asking how to be saved and in fact did get saved. It made me think of the parents that have a child and couldn’t reach them to get them off drugs or whatever their problems was and then finding out that a street event with a band playing the word God through music, whatever style, because of God using them has done what the parents couldn’t. Please don’t try and tell the parents it wasn’t worth it, I don’t think they would agree with you. If it was your child I’m sure you would agree. God uses people in different ways and it’s not for any of us to judge which one is right, I don’t know about you but my arms are to short to box with God!!! It sounds like most of you love the Lord and that is great, take care and God bless you.
posted November 1, 2008 at 9:22 am
Jeff,
The bottom line in “yes it’s either right or wrong”. Comparing electricity to winning soul wouldn’t really be an apples to apples example now would it. Electricity is considered a necessity by most people today, and has nothing to do with soul winning. I do believe that all things we do must pertain to soul winning. The seventy or so years that we have been given to win the lost for Christ seems minute when compared to eternity, and therefore we must be about the Fathers business at all times. In answer to your question about the job. Yes, I have led souls to Christ right in the work place. I used to own a restaurant and on one occasion had the opportunity to lead three people at one time to Christ. We bowed, and prayed right there in the middle of the restaurant, they wept and repented of their sins, and came to know Christ as Lord and savior that day. If Christian musics goal is not to reach the lost, than somewhere someone has missed the mark, and the pressing toward that mark for the prize of the High Calling.
posted November 1, 2008 at 10:20 am
All the music in the world, whether Christian Rock, or good old fashioned hymns won’t win souls if the ones bringing the music don’t live the lives. Drugs are so long related to Rock music that it’s most likely appealing to tht type of personality. If GOD has prepared the heart, the heart will find HIM, through music or speech,but mostly by actions. Just as our children learn from what we do more than what we say. It doesn’t do to sing “Praise the Lord” when off-stage life doesn’t show it. Nowdays, it takes more courage to BE a Christian because of so many Naysayers, our Government for example, just going along with those who don’t believe rather than those who do. There IS but one GOD for any religion, HE is called by different names according to the language one speaks.
posted November 1, 2008 at 10:40 am
I find that listening to Christian Music and “family-friendly” music stations, which stress quality uplifting news stories, and feature scriptural messages from Christian leaders, enables me to stay focused on my praise of God throughout my busy day. It is so easy to hear other messages and “forget” to give God my thanks and praise as I get busier and more distracted throughout the day. I don’t feel that Christian music unto itself will “convert” followers, but it certainly does help draw attention to the Word of God and messages found therein. And it gives those of us who need the gentle reminder what we need…
posted November 1, 2008 at 11:30 am
Christian Rock, and Christian clothing, signs, etc in and of themselves don’t do the saving. It’s Jesus Christ that does the saving. Of course, most who read a blog like this need not be reminded of this. I think what some forget is that we too, cannot in any way, shape or form, do the saving. We cannot bring Jesus to the people. We can only point the way. After that, it’s Jesus, through the Holy Spirit that does the saving. In that process, it’s a deeply personal thing between the sinful human being and God. If anything, we are the “facilitators”. This includes what ever means necessary. Look at it this way…does the devil care what means he uses in order to achieve causing one to sin? Nope. It could be causing somone to see something they want, or having something already and causing that person to desire more. Causing an empty hole to exist in a person’s life and a desire gone awry to fill it. I think the saying “why should the devil have all the good music” should be inserted here. I am a former commercial disc jockey. I love Chrisian Music, and think that if the Message is spread that way, so much the better. As someone said before me in this forum, it if gets the word out…so much the better. I like the NOTW (no commercial or payolla here, I assure you) line of clothing because it sends a very positive message…you can be a Christian and still be cool. Sure, our aim is to be in the world but not of it, and yes, we have indeed to a great extent bought into a lie, but let me ask you this…apart from knowing the falicy of the Hare Krischne religion (sp?) (if they are still in airports) what keeps you away from them? Sure, you see them and run like the wind…If we do the same…look different…we destroy what opportunities may be there to witness. If I am wrong…Father forgive me and show me the errors…In His Service…
posted November 1, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Scott,
I think it’s great you’ve been able to lead souls to Christ in many ways. To bring my point to an end, I’ll repeat the end of my last post:
We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, just stop trying to make those that play it or listen to it seem like they’re doing something wrong.
posted November 1, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Christian rock is such a crock…it is at bst a shoody imitation of the real thing…secondly.most of the singers and musician’s in Christian Rock do the same things as their authentic counterparts..but just with crappier music.
Southpark had it right when Cartman says that Christian rock is the way to get into the music biz..then crossover..
Bottom line..it is all about money, fame, power…with some Jesus icing on the cupcake…
posted November 2, 2008 at 12:21 am
“Christian Rock” is not Gospel, never will be Gospel, and Iit is in fact wrong and contrary to Gods HOLY WORD !!!!
posted November 3, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Make a joyful noise unto the Lord. It could be Christian rock. I don’t think this is demonic or wordly. It’s a matter of taste. Like food, look into the ingredients…is it poison? or does it give or sustain life? That applies to the spiritual as well. I’m not against Christian rock, but I’m against Satan.
posted November 8, 2008 at 8:51 am
Scott…it saddens me that u take such a close minded view on this matter…obviously it is a touchy subject, but i don’t think Jeff is trying to say it is Gospel. i believe it is better for people to be listening to christian rock, which has christian band members than to secular music that has secular influences…wouldn’t u say so?