Hillsong London releases new CD, and I rant about the megachurch (again)

I see this as 2 separate issues. First, I don't see anything inherently wrong with a church's worship team releasing cd's. You can find dozens of them on iTunes. Just because these churches are "mega-churches" shouldn't discredit what they do. They have the resources to make that happen. I play guitar on my church worship team, and every week we try and put the best worship service out there that we can. I know that sounds bad, like we're making it into a show, but that's not the case. We want to use our talents in the most effective way, first and foremost to please God, but also so that those in attendance will respond to Him as well.

Second, I do agree that if a person gets too caught up in the show or buys into the atmosphere of the music, speaker, etc., that they are missing the point. Then it becomes about the parties involved, not God. And yes, if you rely on anyone other than God, you will be let down.

Mega churches have advantages due to their sheer size that smaller churches do not. They can certainly make a difference in ways that others cannot. I do not see that as a negative.

I have to say that i strongly disagree with your statement that the world cannot erase world poverty. If you did your research properly you would find that if the worlds super powers combined their finances we would be able to end world poverty and still have plenty of money left. It saddens me that the church has taken to judging itself. Hillsong have done many great things, and Mike Gugeliemucci has nothing to do with it. Yes he made a huge mistake but who are we to judge. We should be standing together as one church if we ever want to win this world for Christ, not picking on the churches that are making a name for themselves and therefor influencing the world for Christ.

Jared, that "we can erase world poverty" is the ego-centric mindset that got Moses banned from entering the promised land. He didn't make the water spring forth from a rock, and we can't erase poverty. All of the glory or credit goes to the Creator, and unless I'm reading the Bible wrong we won't have heaven on earth until Jesus comes so poverty will be with us until the end. But we can and should do all we can to feed the hungry and reach out to the poor until He does.

My other thought is that I find it quite amusing that those people who had a "who are we to judge" mentality towards Michael Gugliemucci are the same folks who turned around and had no problem judging Ray Boltz.

Joanne
host of the Gospel Soundcheck blog

Here it is...
We all look back at David..."A man after God's own heart", a "Hero of the faith", a "Celebrity", well i wanna let you know, Daivd fell, he murdered, he adulterated etc. Placing judgement on a man like Mike Gugglielmucci who really only needs our love right now is wrong and not christian like at all. Mike gugglielmucci has done a lot of things for the Lord and preached many Sermons which have been messages written, I believe, by God. Please remember that God's words do not return void, and yes what Mike has done is wrong, however all he needs is prayer right now because I believe that he can rise back up and be the soul winner he was meant to be again, only if people get out of the way and stop bringing it up, rubbing it inhis face, reminding him that he stuffed up...You yourself Joanne say that you hate the celebrity culture of church, however you have given into it just by writing about mike, it's plain and simple.
Another thing, I'm not saying that I agree with celebrity culture, however when we look back at God's word and it clearly shows us that Jesus had only 12 Disciples, Jesus being the man that he was "famous", do you not think that the disciples would have received some "celebrity" stigma/status along with it? i think so, but the question isn't is it wrong, but it is how do we use it/deal with it?
Many people know who I am, I wouldn't quite class myself as a celebrity but, it's about treating people as the same as you even if you are classed as a celebrity in there eyes...and I know for a fact that Hillsong, Planet Shakers, Mike gugglielmucci even let people know that they weren't all that and that people should just feel free to relate with them on the same level. Personally I know a few of the pastors from Planet Shakers and one or two of the ones from Hillsong and they are extremely down to earth and genuine people who long for God to do something in peoples lives. Recently I went to a conference which Pastor Brian Houston (Senior Pastor of Hillsong Churhc Australia)was preaching at. He got extremely personal and told a lot of genuine deep stuff that would be hard to share to close friends, but he opened up to a couple of hundred people...why, not because he is superhuman (because that's what this message proved) in fact it proved that he is just another man with a plan and purpose from God that is unique to him, just like every other man and woman in the world.
These people bringing out a CD is their way of showing there passion for God and helping others connect with him. I know that they don't take this CD business lightly, they spend months and months praying and seeking after God for what it should be.
Finally I would like to say that Hillsong London meeting in the Theatre is not about show or about Fame but about space, and suitability, they need a big space for ammount of people they bring in too church, they also need equipment they canuse which is suitable to a well skilled band. Not that it is about the show, but if they can do it why shouldn't they? it is drawing people in who normally wouldn't step into church...
I don't want to seem attacking toward your views however this is a topic I am passionate about and if you are going to say things like this, you need to know the facts first.

Thanks
Aaron Kelly, akelly@dvbc.net

Joanne, that "we can't erase poverty" mindset is what is stopping people from doing anything about it...ok we might not be able to completly iradicate poverty but at the same time, who are we to not try?

and also what i don't understand is, how is it wrong to have the "who are we to judge" mentality...the whole Ray Boltz issue is exactly the same as the issue with Mike Gugeliemucci...we should do nothing but love and pray for them...

Joanne,

thank you for your response...i am not saying that 'we' do it all i strongly believe we do all things through Christ who strengthens us...i personally hav been on missions before and they have changed my life in many ways...yes i agree that in 'some' cases there is a 'we did it' mentality but i think you would find, that most of the pastors of the larger church organisations and not of course to exclude the smaller congregations, humble themselves before the lord daily, as we all should be doing

I respect that this is a hot topic for you...and have enjoyed this debate...one thing i would like to know wat you think is, why is it wrong to have the "who are we to judge" mentality???

Jared

Hello Joanne!

I know this is a hot topic for you, but make sure you aren't so quick to judge! I live in NZ, so I'm as far away from Hillsong London as physically possible, but (giving my family on the other side of the world the benefit of the doubt) I'm sure that the church are well aware that without Christ all is lost. I mean, if he doesn't come through for us, there's NOTHING we can achieve of worth on our own strength.

I think you might be taking this 'motto' of the church out of the context of the church's heart behind it - I think it was more from the position of "because every one of us has been blessed BY GOD just by existing in the first world, we dont need a huge, massive, angel from heaven to come down and tell us to go out and help people, we should help people simply BECAUSE WE CAN and it echoes God's heart"!

Hope that helps.

But, then again, I am just a Kiwi.

God Bless!
nish

Hi Joanne,

I'm not sure how saying you sponsor a child means that you're "all about giving and serving" when Hillsong London mentions is sponsors 1000s of compassion children through church members, with probably half its congregation under the age 18 - this is quite significant.

'Because we can', can be interpreted a number of ways - but I believe your looking at it as a marketing campaign and trying to decipher the church's heart with your anti-massive-church bias, which is seen clearly. Looks like your interpretation of in seen in your statement, "The "we can do it all" mentality will suck you in." I'd intepret it as, if you live in the developing world, you really do not need a sign from God's angel and prophet in robes to come and tell you to make a difference of live out your faith, or even pray about sponsoring a child - just do it. Maybe they should change it to "Because he already said"

Ray

Firstly - "Because We Can" is not Hillsong Church's mission statement or motto. It is an in-house phrase used to encourage those within the life of the church to give.

As Nish said, it's a phrase devised to help and encourage people to give - "simply because they can". It's not a statement about erradicating world poverty - nor is it the church saying "We can erradicate world poverty!".

To accuse the church of being arrogant is well, quite arrogant!!! Let's remember that the church consists of ordinary everyday people like you and me who are loved of God and have a genuine love for God's people. The fact that they give simply because they can shouldn't be criticised but applauded. The fact that they want to do something about poverty should not be looked down upon but championed. It would be a great day when we Christians decide to champion each others causes - big church, small church, work in third world country, missions in Africa, etc. Let's stop crticising one another and being suspicious of each others good intentions because by doing so we are thinking of ourselves more highly than we should. We are also destroying and devaluing the work of God through his church.

Love and Blessings,

Dee

Alexandra, I'm not knocking the church specifically. I'm sure it's a lovely church.

It's the megachurch mentality that raises the hair on the back of my neck, with the "we" do this and "we" do that and not CHRIST did this or that through us, and the commercialization of Christ that would have him turning tables over in most churches today. As a consumer, you may not see just how much product is coming out of churches; Hillsong, just as an example, put out so many books, CDs and DVDs that it seems like I'm getting a product from the franchise every month.

If you read the entire post, I did said that we should all do something to end poverty, but it's the "We can do it" MINDSET that I find arrogant. I put a whole bunch of links at the end; did you read any of them? Or did you just get mad because I used a story about Hillsong to launch my rant against the megachurch mentality? :) If you read them, you'll see I'm not a fan of the commercialization of the gospel from any church.

Joanne
host of the GS blog

Greetings to all. I have been following the various comments with interest and would just like to add my three cents worth to the pot -so to speak. I think we need some balance and to be careful about being too quick in judging the situation.I have been attending Hillsong for only about a year, however within that time I have had my life changed to the extent of which I as confessed sinner would never have believed possible.I have met so many wonderful christians. People who I have come to know as humble god fearing followers of Christ! I personally was challenged by the "We can make a difference" statement! It is not the statement that makes the "difference" but the money that we give -hopefully with genuine motives that makes the difference to the lives of those who benefit from what the church can provide by way of funds.As Christians we need to be constantly examining our motives for why we serve and give in whatever way we do. I personnally believe that Hillsong is a great church.Churches are made up of people all of which are flawed. I can't see that being a big or mega church is necessarily a problem or should we start to limit the size of our congregations? At the end of the day as long as we are led by the spirit in all we do and maintain a genuine relationship with the Lord then we will be doing his will. Sorry if I have "rambled" a bit.