Christian artist Brian Bates shares his thoughts on how to respond to Ray Boltz, Clay Aiken coming out of the closet

"the "Sodom and Gomorrah" mindset "
yeah, and the funny thing is that Ezekiel says Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for being "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." (Ezekiel 16:49; thank God for BibleGateway.com and the Search function!) People tend to associate homosexuality with Sodom and Gomorrah because of Genesis's report of an incident of attempted gang rape of men by men, but ultimately rape is not an expression of sexuality, but of a desire to dominate, crush, and humiliate.
As for homosexuality and the Bible, this website is, at the very least, thought-provoking: http://www.inclusiveorthodoxy.org/

Delia and Connie - I get flak from gays when I use the word "lifestyle", but I don't really know the proper way to explain someone who is living in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex.

Personally, I don't know if someone is born gay or not. Truly. I'm not gay, so I have no clue what it feels like to struggle with those feelings, what it feels like to have people try and make you conform to their view of "normal."

I do know what it feels like to sin, to have someone point out when my actions are out of line with God's, to feel judged, to feel unloved, to feel confused and abandoned.

Personally, again, I believe you can be gay and Christian, but I also believe that means not being involved sexually with a person of the same sex. I think the Bible is clear that act is sin. BUT what you do and who you are are not the same thing.

I'm no Bible scholar, and for all of my attempts to be compassionate and loving to the gay community, I usually end up sticking my foot in my mouth anyway. I am NOT the Christian you will see pointing a finger, protesting, preaching, or trying to convert gays. I AM the person you will see befriending and having strong friendships with gays, and helping them understand Jesus loves them, right here, right now, and from that let the Holy Spirit do His thing.

Joanne
host of the GS blog

the question is: what is the extend of the christian music hypocrisy?

Clay is making a series of bad choices. He COULD choose to marry his child's mother-who appears to love him-and live a normal family life. Instead, he's apparently choosing a life of casual 'relationships' with other gay men.

Life is a series of choices, for all people, and we all face the consequences of them. I feel bad for Clay, but he's causing his own problems.

Well nonsched...I do not believe that Clay is making a series of bad choices...I believe he is being true to himself. He loves and respects his childs mother...they are great friends... That does not mean that he is casually having relationships with other gay men....Just because you are gay, doesn't mean that you're out having relationships all the time....That is a misconception. It is a wrong statement, even saying that because I like men, then I must be having relationships with them....This is not true..and is stereotyping...

I do know that Clay is a good man...and yes...you are born gay...it is in your coding...I don't ask why I am attracted to the opposite sex...I just am....it's the same way for gays...they just are...

I know some gay men, and they are as normal as anyone else, except for that...They go to church, they don't sleep around...and actually they are really, really nice people.... I have a tendency to judge a person from the way they are as a human being.... If a person is good, kind, compassionate, caring, giving...I'm sorry..but that person is ok in my book...

I don't want to debate..but please don't address Clay as you think he is making wrong choices...This is a choice he has made with honesty...yes, he could marry the mother of his child...but that would be a lie...I do know of men that want that family life...have gotten married, had children....but down the road, they have left their families, cause they have lived a lie...and that is not fair to anyone....

I respect his decision to be forthright in his honest of who he is, and he has done this for his child.. Clay was bullied relentessely growing up..by everyone, his birth father, his step father...everyone.. He wants to raise Parker to be able to be whomever he is...This child will know more compassion and inclusion, than most will ever know...cause Clay is completely about inclusion. Just look at his foundation for special kids...look at his Ambassadorship with Unicef...This is a good man.

Bless you, and have a lovely evening.
Judy Anderson

I firmly believe that "God" is an interpretation by man! That when someone preaches what God thinks or God believes or what God wants - it's merely a projection of what THEY think and their own interpretation. I think every man or woman has to make peace with their own God and only THEY know whether that will lead to their salvation or not. To judge another human being in God's name is not only prejudicial but bigotry of the highest order. How "Christian" of you to judge Mr. Aiken and Mr. Bates. I believe God loves everybody - man, woman, gay, straight. I believe God sees the good in all people no matter who they sleep with. To me it's more important to live a good life than what you do in the privacy of your bedroom.

We shall know them by their fruit. The story of Peter and Cornelius makes this idea clear: Cornelius the Gentile, someone who was thought to be unclean, unacceptable to God, off limits for godly men and women. And yet God shows Peter that Cornelius has found favor with God, in spite of EVERYTHING Peter thinks he knows about the Scriptures.

I believe God is doing the same thing with gay and lesbian Christians today -- showing His favor and making them fruitful in spite of everything people think the Bible says about homosexuality. We should not judge people's lives by what the Bible says, but instead by whether they bring the light and life of Christ into the world. If we can look at the lives of gay and lesbian Christians and see that God is using them to bring the peace, reconciliation and hope of Christ into the world, then it doesn't matter what we think the Bible says: we will know that they have found favor with God.

Amen.

I would like to say I can't believe what I just read here, but it is exactly what the ex-gay mind washing does to one.

I was that way for years myself. I helped to hurt/destroy many peoples lives over the years because I hid deeply from whom I was.

Last night I was watching many videos of those who have come out against Ray Boltz--it was very heart breaking to see "me" in many of those videos.

I am sorry to all those whom I misled and truly hurt. I hope none took their own life due to my ignorance, but I know that is truly a possibility.

I hope someday we will all be free to be whom we are, but in the meantime, just know God truly loves you!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Name's post reminds me of how many people have literally been destroyed because churches refuse to allow people to develop healthy same-sex relationships. How many suicides? How many failed marriages? How many people have left the church and fallen into unhealthy behaviors because they had no good role models for living a godly life as a gay man or lesbian? How many people have left the church because the church says NO even when God says YES?

I recall reading Mel White's autobiography and learning that all of his closeted classmates from seminary DIED because they tried to stay closeted: all three married women, but two contracted AIDS and the third was killed by a hustler. Only White has survived, because he entered a healthy same-sex relationship.

When I read this account, I had to ask: Is the law of Christ supposed to be a burden? Should people be dying because churches are pressuring them to live lives that are unnatural for them? Is a dead Christian really better than a live homosexual? Is that the abundant life Jesus promises us?

The Law was made for us, not us for the Law. May we learn how to apply this simple truth.

Amen.

JustMe - you win the Eagle Eye award today! How on EARTH did I miss that typo???

Thank you for pointing it out! I"m such a doofus. :)

Joanne
host of the GS blog

Judy, you and other Claymates find it too painful to believe that Clay is having sexual relations with other men. You all spent years denying that he's gay. Now that he himself has announced that he's gay, you are still living in denial. Clay has had many sexual relationships with men, some long-term, some very short-term. That's a fact.

Hey all! Good discussion - let's stay on track, though, and focus not on Clay's partners but on how Christians should respond to the idea of being gay, being Christian, and some of the ideas Brian Bates suggested in the post.

Thanks!
Joanne
host of the GS blog

I pray that God opens the eyes and ears of those who are searching. Espcially those who feel unaccepted by God because they live in sin. Didn't we all feel that way at one time before we were saved? How many of us have been in relationship with someone where we had questions or doubt and knew that no matter how many friends or family memebers we talked to about this particular relationship the only person who had the answers was the person who we were in a relationship with? It's the same with our relationsip with God. He sent us his Son to be our friend and confindate. If we put our opinions and interpretations aside and truly open our hearts to God's Word we will find the answers. Do some of you really believe that Christians hate homosexuals? Why would they do that? God teaches us to love one another and out of that love we are to be helpmates. God's Word is how we know that homosexuality is a sin. We did not mate it up nor did we misinterpret what God says about it. I will pray for anyone who is comtemplating suicide for any reason. However, I believe that anyone who would even think of taking their life has many issues not just homosexual issues. So the threat or fear of someone committing suicide over homosexuality alone is just a scream for attention to me and I think that we must look deeper for the the real issues.

As a Christian, in my heart the only difference between a heterosexual and a homosexual is the sexual act itself. And I think that we all need to remember that Lust for another human being whether it be with the same sex or with someone of a different sex is a sin in itself. For everyone lust is a sin! So, for anyone who is thinking of taking their life because they can't have sex with anyone, male or female, their heart and mind is in the wrong place in the first place. There are many people who physically can not have sex due to birth defects, accidents or for medical reasons and they live full lives. They do not commit suicide.

If we are truly worried for someone's mortal soul then we should be praying for God's intervention in their lives and stop this nonsensical bantering about different interpretations of God's Word. The frist Book of Romans which speaks of homosexuality was put in God's Word for a reason. People who do not believe in the Christian interpretation never speaks of what they interpret it to mean. They only want to argue what God has revealed to theologians and to Christian's on the subject by injecting all this convoluted "intepretations" jabber. Just pray and ask God. He will let you know what His intent is, was and will forever be. And you surely won't die from not being able to have sex with someone of the same sex. God did not create homosexuality. Man's lustful hearts did. It is a sin folks and we better place our hearts and minds on that and pray for those who threaten to commit suicide thinking that they can't live without it.

JUDY!!!

Thank you for every word you wrote. I agree with your post entirely!

River

I'd like to think that what Charlie Herschberger said is a lie.
However, this guy is a lawyer in a somewhat high-profile law firm in NYC, and a competitor on a popular tv reality show. It's not like he crawled out from under a rock with the story.

Clay has chosen to publicly proclaim himself as gay. I doubt he's been sitting at home, alone in his prayer closet, all this time. Sorry to say. I wish things were different.

Time out! Thanks for all of the speculation on Clay Aiken's sexual partners (good grief, who cares) but let's try and stick to the topic at hand: how Christians can or should respond to gays, and thoughts on Brian Bates' suggestions in this post.

Thanks!
Joanne
host of the GS blog

I'm not sure if Brian will read this but this is what I would like to say in response...

You said that your friend "appealed to your need for God." I am gay and also have a need for God. I pursue that need by pursuing God and my sexuality has not hindered my relationship with him at all. Matter of fact, after coming out and deciding to be honest and authentic to my family, friends, and myself; my relationship with God has grown stronger. I have experienced his love in a deeper and real way more than ever before.

I kind of felt that when you said your friend "appealed to your need for God" you were excluding those who are openly gay, have that need, and their sexuality doesn't hinder that.

It is possible to be a Christian and be lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender just as it is possible to be a Christian and straight. Those things do not determine your faith, they are just a part of who you are.

God is not concerned with who we love but how we love.

I hope the whole church will one day be able to respond the same way your friend did with you. It is important that we discuss this even if we don't agree, but it is even more important that we love each other and unite regardless of theological differences.

Much love,
Azariah

There is more to salvation than just merely saying that one has a faith or is a Christian. One must repent and totally surrender ALL to God to receive the free gift of salvation. Then they must follow through with obedience, prayful supplication and thanksgiving. The Holy Spirit who enters into their lives will lead them to do what is right and thus to righteousness. Christians are not judging people by quoting the scripture that God has given to all for direction. They are merely passing on God's Word which we are all supposed to live by. God is the judge and has judged all sin beforehand. If ALL who claim to be Christians were to read God's Word and pray for his Divine leadership in their lives then they would know what is sin and what we are not supposed to be modeling our lives by. Homosexuality is sin according to God's Holy ordinance. It is not something that Christians have made up to use against homosexuals nor is it just Man's interpretation of God's Word. God does love every person and every thing that he has created but he did not create sin and he does not love the sin that we live in. This is the reason that he allows us to repent and be forgiven. God also did not create homosexuals. He created man in his own image and woman from man's rib. It was Satan who brought sin into the world and man who has kept it going through his lustful heart and arrogant ways.

Well said, Brian!

I am a Gay Christian who loves God. I have been studying what the scriptures say concerning homosexuality and after going back to the original text, I'm finding that it is not a sin... I'll probably get a million and one emails bashing me for this but it doesn't matter. Someone wrote that it's not an interpretation of God's word.. .but that's exactly what it is. There are so many translations of the bible and within those, there are different meanings for the same supposed bible passages... all based on interpretation. Could it be that God's word is inerrant and yet we have gotten it wrong? Just food for thought. I am at ease with who I am and with who I am in God.

Scripture even talks about these types of relationships. David and Jonathan, The centurion and his lover. So much more I could go into...

Though I don't agree with people just sleeping together and whoring around, I DO believe that two people of the same gender can share a loving, Godly relationship. I am blessed to have a wonderful man in my life that I can pray with and be myself with.

As for Brian, I can't judge his intentions. From the people that I've met, not thinking about men is not just something that can go away. It's a part of your being, fiber. He made the statment of surrendering your sexuality to God, but sexuality is instinct and is controlled throught your mind. Your mind knows what you like and are into sexually. You can't control what color your eyes are or how tall you're going to be... nor can you control what you'll be attracted to. But still, our culture tries to come up with reasons for homosexuality... and have claimed to have figured it out.

It could be that he is bisexual and has an easier time with his sexuality than most Gay men have had. I don't know Brian but this is what he believes and I respect him for that... not many people are willing to stand for what they believe. And in the whole scheem of things, we have to work out our own salvation according to the scriptures. So if that's the case why do so many "christians" speak with hate and disrespect when it comes to people like me. I've only had maybe 4 or 5 "christians" continue to speak with me with love when I came out of the closet... that alone says enough and so I continue to be a lover of Christ because my relationship with God is not based on people.

Take care ya'll and seek the real truth and not just what's written on a page...

I'm in Atlanta... and you tell me when and where and I would love to have a cup of coffee and compare notes. I am also a singer/songwriter: www.soundclick.com/carlosortiz

I'm up for it if you are bro... Take care and your music is really nice... I love it.

-Carlos

The bottom line is love...Love them as we are called to love an live as we are called to live. Witness by the way we live and respond to life journey...As far as Sodom this is what the scriptures of Ezekiel 16:49 says..Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom...She and her daughters we arrogant overfed, and unconcerned, they did not help the poor and needy...My question to you is...who is the poor and needy, and here is some food for thought...are not many so called christians obese? We sit in the pews each sunday but how many are spending time with the lost, the naked, the hunrgy, the widow and the orphan. We sit in our church's and get fed the word but who are you feeding? or are you just over weight feasting on the word for yourself? Share you life with those who are in need do not condemn people for their sin rather make them thirst and hunger the sweet milk and honey our heavenly father provides to us that are called to be his children.

Carlos: please disregard that last post.
Last poster: Your passion on the topic is good and valid. Your approach is not, for this is not a game. I would love to dialgue more on the topic. My email is brian@brian-bates.com.

I don't get why we all have to be the same. Why do we have this need for 'one way'? To me diversity is a beautiful thing. It seems that certain religions/belief systems spur on this need for sameness that squelches human expression and dignity.
I guess people feel the need to answer to something or someone - or they will be punished? Or there is fear in pursuing something unknown that might be 'wrong' or 'harmful'? Why do other people doubt another's experience? Shouldn't we be encouraging to others? Why is it people are so negative towards someone who is gay and ok with it? That speaks volumes about them.

If someone finds fulfillment and joy with the opposite or same gender. Great. If another person struggles with this issue because of a set of beliefs, fine. That is the place for them to be at the moment. I personally feel for them, as I was there at one time. I must say, it's so liberating to step outside the box of structured thinking. Come on and join me! :)
Hey Brian! Hope you had a great Holiday Season! Happy Winter Solstice. ....Lynn in Mpls.

listen being a Homosexual is not an issue with God, It is an issue with some of mankind people who are homophobic and call it God or the Lord will pay for the evil hurt and harm they have done spiritualy and emotionaly and phisicaly so get ready God most certainly is. And ferthermore it is time to stop lieing and take responsibility God is sick of it and so am I. My name is Timothy Trotter and this blog tells me that someone is a lier. moving on I am 21 years of age I am a saved educated gay Christian I don't party I don't drink and ferthermore I don't do drugs I have submitted my sexual oreintation to God numerous times still gay some of ya Chistians have fogotten what God taught and your letting the devil use you and should be ashamed stop judging people it is not your job my mother and my grandmother have known that I was gay since I was 2 years old. the Bible does not declare that is it is a sin to be gay. To think that over a period of 2000 years of wars, likes , dislikes and so much more that many did not add things to the bible is sinceless. A man said that it was a sin to be a homosexual the word homosexual was not even placed into the bible until the 19th centery and alot of terrible things went on befor that time and after and alot of it was said to be inspired by God however every thing isn't of God homophobia is one out of many. Stop blame your shrot commings on a sexual orientatin that was now and until the day you die apointed by God that is a lie take responsibility Corenthians 1-6 is a scripture that has been miscomunicated Paul was talking to straght men engaging with other men sexualy inorprpriately and told them if they did not seas this behavior that they would not inherit the kingdom of heaven try and change it if you dare that is the truth Paul was not talking to gay men. Homophobia came from a word called patriarcy wich is a hatred for women or any thing feminent any thing the devil does not change he just aproaches things a little different God said to love Him and to love our nehbor as we love our selves people who practice homophobic Christianity have a crappy way of showing the love of Jesus good luck passing into Heaven because you wont that is not Jesus if you act that way that is not Jesus it is the devil. I say it all the time if being gay is such a sin an abomination then why didn,t Jesus who was God in the flesh condemn it He was God in the flesh someone is a lier and it is not God He said in his own words I am not a man that I should lie nor the son of man that I should repent. Being gay is not a drug and alcahol problem it is a healthy sexual orientation given to some of His people stop lieing Revilations 21-8 read it if you are a lier get ready for the weeny roast Brian Bates you are a lier and you need to be mor supportive of your gay brothers and sisters in Christ and I don't believe that you ever where gay because you would still be gay is not an on and off switch how dare you just take responsibility I won't let you or other Christians like keep on making God out to be a selfish vandictiv monser a sindacit. You should be ashamed of your self God can forgive you but it will take me a while to and you call your self a Christian get educated so you dont hurt people I love you and you are very hansome God bless you and prosper you and your family!!

Actually, the Bible was not silent on the issue of homosexuality. When scripture says that men should not lie down with other men as they do women, I think it is pretty clear what that means. Also when women are cautioned not to have unnatural passions or both men and women are told they should not have sexual relations except in a marital relationship (and marriage in the scriptures is defined as between one man and one woman), again it seems clear what is being said.

It is human nature to cling to our sins. But it is not healthy and it is wrong to ignore what God's word says on any subject.

Let us all agree to surrender more and more to the Lord and if our hearts are open He will lead us to His truth.

Anyone who knows me and my life story knows that I am not soft on this issue. I have a traditional biblical perspective on homosexuality, believing it is not God's intent or design and therefore homosexual behavior is sin. And if you know my story, you also know my turnaround started with the relentless compassion of a Christian friend. She put aside the moral debate and appealed to my need for God. That turned my heart towards home, back to a loving Father that I could trust enough to rethink my sexuality and take my narrow path. After all, it is God's kindness that leads to repentance.

I'm shocked by this message. I've been dating this guy for the past five years! We recently to a break, and he chose to make a date with another man.