Jesus Goes To "Camp"
Wednesday September 27, 2006
Categories: Movies
Though the documentary "Jesus Camp"--which goes inside Pastor Becky Fisher's "Kids on Fire" camp in North Dakota--has only been playing in movie theaters in limited release for two weeks, it has generated a firestorm of controversy. I saw the movie...
Filed Under: Jesus Camp
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I a aChristian and I take offense that you generalize and say freedom loving Americans should be afraid of Christians well I am both so should I be afraid of myself. I believe in love and tolerance that Jesus does not in George Bush and the war and all the hypocrisy that religion brings. I am prolife by my own choice but pro choice for every other womans choice. I believe every person is entitled to their own beliefs. My own husband does not believe in God at all. And for the record a true Christian knows in the 10 commandments in the bible THE word of God "thou shalt pray to no other Gods before me" religions are hypocrites I call myself non denominational whatever that means my Nana would be ashamed if she were alive today but she is already enjoying heaven where I will one day reunite with her. Judge me if you want but I dont believe in these Jesus camps or this woman or preacher or ANY religious extremists THEY are the ones who will be burning in HELL!!!! Jenn
Just ask yourself, "what would Jesus do"....this kind of extreme belief mirrors extremism in any context. This sounds like spiritual abuse to me. Thank God people have a right to say what they please and thank God we also have a right to choose not to listen.
How very sad! This gives a whole new meaning to the word Cult. Why would anyone send their child to such a camp? It's just wrong.
WOW. wow. What would Jesus do, indeed? Jesus is loving and forgiving - lucky for extremists. He does want us to pray for our leaders - he does want us to pray for each other - he does NOT want us to be afraid of each other - for HE is in control. He does want us to talk about Him, His sacrifice, His grace. It's not about US....it's about HIM. This film sounds very misleading and very extremist....perhaps we should pray for THEM as well....
I have not seen the movie. What disturbed me more than anything was a young boy saying that he was saved at five and before he was saved he had no direction in his life. Well five year olds don't need direction. Let them be children. In regards to the previous comments. I am a reformed Christian and believe we are saved by God's grace. Thank God I don't determine who gets into heaven and who does not. God determines that alone.
I don't agree in these types of camps. I don't agree that when you are praying for our "world" leaders that you should bow before a cut out of the President. We must pray for ALL our leaders. I do think this is idolotry. I think the whole culture of bringing politics into the church is idolotry.
However, Christ calls us to love ALL. Including those that we disagree with. Love our brothers and sisters in Christ and those that are not Christian. Through that love and the power of the Holy Spirit that is what transforms. That is the radical nature that Jesus taught us, and that is what we should embrace. Finally, I will just add, for all the people that want to take America back for God, I will quote Greg Boyd, "America is not the light of the world, the light of the world is through Jesus Christ." That should be a nobrainer for Christians.
Just wondering what type of education does this Pastor Becky Fisher have.
What would Jesus do? A better question...What would Jesus have me do? I don't think it is this!
Wow! I am disturbed by what I'm reading here....these were written by "christians"? Most of these writings are very judgemental. Especially Mary Ruth Davidson's comment about what education Pastor Becky Fisher has...did Paul,John, Matthew or any of the diciples have a doctorate in theology???? I have some Bible College and I can tell you, none of us have the right to judge this organization. DISCERN for yourself if it's the right thing for your child, but open judgement would grieve God. I myself, would like to go to the camp to see it for myself and since I am raising my grandson, I may get the opportunity. I can hardly wait! SINCERELY Sally Reddish
Most of these comments surprise me. If I had my choice I would like prople to see me as a loving and tolerant person. I would hate for someone to see me as intolerant and judgmental. But dispite what I would want, Jesus frimly taught that we need to take a stand. People need to know about his claims and how he has effected our lives. I know to many this seems judgmental and unloving but from my perspective to not share is a greater offence because it denies people the chance accept what Jesus offers both in this wolrd and the one to come. Teaching this to children is a good thing. In do not know if I would agree with Pastor Fishers methods because I have not been exposed to them but emotion should not be veiwed as a negitive thing. It just shows that the youth are understanding her claimes and responding to it. More adults should do the same thing!
I spent several weeks at such a camp one summer when I was a teenager - it was not a pleasurable experience by any means. Having been raised a fundamental, evangelical Christian, I found this experience to be very unnerving and refused to ever return or to send any children I might have. The whole atmosphere was one of fear. We were repeatedly lectured that everyone and everything that wasn't of our type of Christianity was satanic. There was no discussion, no free thought, and if you had the audacity to ask a question, you're commitment to Jesus was openly questioned by the camp cousellors and you were publically humilliated until you "repented" and re-affirmed your faith according to the way they believed. There was no time to enjoy the lake, take walks in the woods ... BUT - there was Bible study: 3 hour session after breakfast, 3 hours after lunch, 2 hours after supper which was followed by a sing-a-long and witness time.
Not all of these places are wholesome or balanced. They're not all places to grow in the faith. Quite a few of these summer camps are places of indoctrination.
That was not a judgemental coment. I am usually not a judgemntal person but I do care about the way children are taught. I am a Christian. I don't through stones. But seem to have hit a nerve.
*throw
It seems to me that Sally Reddish jumped to conclusions about the comment mrd made. No one said that anyone needs a doctorate in theology. If she teaches our children we would like to know what her authority is. There is nothing wrong with emotion being used but how it is used matters. Jesus, I don't believe, wanted us (His children) scared into following Him. What I saw last night on TV about these camps was disturbing to me--a practicng moderate Christian
moderate...not liberal, not conservitive.
ABUSE!!! CLEARLY IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD!!!! THIS KIND OF BEHAVIER FROM "CLEAR" THINKING ADULTS{?} IS AN ABSOLUTE OUTRAGE. GOD IS LOVING AND GOOD. NOT MENT TO BE USED AS A VECHILE TO TERRORIZE CHILDREN!
AMEN
Is it radical in this day and age to stand for right against wrong? Why don't these people, if they oppose abortion, stand against it by supporting mothers who haven't the means to support the children they've conceived? Why make it a shame and blame issue? Often you only see the number for adoption listed in the classified section of the newspaper. As for heaven and hell, I am closer to C.S. Lewis's sane treatment on the views of afterlife. If they claim to be born again, let them live as God intended and lead by example, as well as preach their faith. The mystery of the afterlife is that all are equal and stand before God in the end. For the heavens themselves will roll up as a scroll and every eye will see God.
The scriptures were meant to be read with an eye towards when the law will be written on our hearts. To my mind, only a kind eye can discern the heart. And Be Kind, Dan
I saw only the little bit that was on ABC's "Good Morning, America" on Sept. 28. What I remember is the youth leader saying something like "If Harry Potter lived in Old Testament times, he would be killed!" And she said it with such relish. Who's next on her hit list, Winne the Pooh?
After rightly discerning that an agenda was clearly forming the narrative of "Jesus Camp", it's truly shameful that you still bought into the directors' hatchet-job on Ted Haggard. The film conveniently avoids the fact that Haggard has led a number of other evangelical leaders in challenging the Bush administration on not one but TWO big issues: detainee torture and global warming. In both cases, Haggard and other evangelicals wrote open letters to the President challenging him on his current positions and asking him to change course. Haggard IS one of the Evangelical moderates (part of the mainstream, actually!) out there today.
Here's just one quote that clearly defines the type of Evangelical Haggard is (from the Colorado Springs Independent): Haggard worries about the power of evangelical media ministers to project a seemingly monolithic political view. "Don't buy into the idea that just because Jim Dobson or Jerry Falwell uses the media, they represent evangelicalism," he says. "They don't." My point? Just because some agenda-driven filmmakers use editing (and the planting of kids from the camp into Haggard's church where they don't even live, let alone attend) to tie Ted, his church, and all evangelicals to the philosophies of the North Dakota camp doesn't mean that the association is true!
Come on. Your conclusions about Haggard are as lazy as the filmmakers' want them to be.
Well, I'm not lazy and I am afraid of Mr. Haggard. FIrst, it is hard to get by that constant, unrelenting 'smile' plastered on his face and I can't help but be reminded of the admonition about the Anti-Christ. Now, before I get flamed, I am not saying anything like that - it just sounds so much like what we have been told he would be like. I thought the same thing about Ralph Reed. I can't help but feel that once the cameras are off, the smile comes off and the fire and brimstone come out.
Just a little bit of research through easy Googling about the two issues I mentioned would go a long way in honestly defining where Haggard (and other mainstream Evangelicals like him, such as Rick Warren) stands--and that "Jesus Camp" unjustly slanders. Haggard is not cut from the same cloth as Reed (far from it), and a feeling influenced by his "unrelenting 'smile'" that somehow intuitively tips you off to a behind-the-scenes fire and brimstone reality is intellectually vacant. One only has to look to his public disagreements with the Bush administration on multiple issues to prove that. I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'm not even asking you to like the guy or support him. But please, if you're going to characterize someone, do so with some factual support and intellectual honesty--not on what his or her smile reveals to you (especially when its underscored with ominous music by cinematic propagandists). The philosophical viewpoint you express in the final paragraph of your review is superbly well-stated, and right on. Amen. But Haggard is one of the good guys. Please don't let this film's "dialogue of fear" deceive you otherwise. Jeff
I find this completely and utterly disgusting, and quite the accurate portrayal of how Christianity has been polluted, perverted, and politicized.
I do consider myself a Christian. I grew up an unchurched "good girl" in a holy roller town in Tennessee. Ninety percent of my friends were tiny "warriors for Christ." I clearly remember being asked if I was saved, what church I went to, and being looked down upon because I had no interest in subscribing to their beliefs, all in my formative years!! What do kids know about converting other kids to this kind of exclusive Jesus club??? I always wondered what I was missing out on, but I was clearly not the one missing the mark. I missed out on nothing at all, other than a few extra friends to use and abuse in the name of Christ, and a good brainwashing. Is it a wonder that the "members of God's army" I knew were also the kids that were a) always in trouble at school, or b) pregnant before they were married, or c) strung out on drugs..... the list goes on.... yet their parents did not care because their big buddy in the sky saved them? They could do whatever they wanted in terms of worldly behavior because, oh yeah, they were on fire for the Lord!!! Great teaching.
I am a seeker, far from perfect, and certainly do not have all the answers. None of us do, regardless of faith or background. I sincerely believe in the peace and tolerance that Jesus preached. Christianity is about LOVE, not fear. While I'm sure the evangelicals holding these Jesus Camps have the best intentions in shaping the lives of our young people, perhaps they should rethink their methods. Peace be with you all.
As an Ex Christian, who does not believe in jesus, moses or muhammad... this jesus camp nonsense is exactly why we keep our children out of churches.
Well, I saw the movie this past weekend, and it's certainly arguable that the filmmakers have an agenda that's pushed by what they chose to include and what they chose to leave on the cutting room floor. However, it doesn't matter to me if the pieces they chose to show of the camp are actually only a small part of the curriculum, though it's pretty easy to see that they aren't, what matters is that the parts they do show are being done at all. The lady running the camp is blatantly using techniques of brainwashing and indoctrination to mold these young kids into spiritual warriors. She defends this by saying that Islamists are doing the same thing to their children. Well, there's one lesson my mother was consistent about that this lady should maybe learn, two wrongs don't make a right.
Religion is going to be the death of this world. Everything we fight for has to do with religion. I believe in God, but I have my exceptions. Coud any answer my question? Why is there so man different bibles out?? Why can't their be only ONE bible? Thats why I have my exceptions about religion. What if their is no heaven or hell? Thats why I want to live my own life. I don't want to regret anything I do with my life. Lets get to this redicluious movie. Children should be playing and having fun, but yet they use the kids to try to get George Bush get abortion out of the picture. Me...I dont care what women want to do, they just have to live the rest of their lifes knowing that they had a person living inside them. Samething about Gay people. Im for it...cause we live in this free country of ours and I think we should do what the hell we want to do. If two same sex couple love each other...let them express it. Its not going to kill you. Mybe if your a religious people and have the bible stuck up your ass..is might bother you. I don't have a problem with it..unless some gay guy try to make a move on me and thats when I have a problem. I'm going to watch this movie just to see how zombies would rule the world. BTW the bible was made up by this drunk latin guy and the bible is full of fairy tails. Oh well...still believe in God...Hope I don't go to hell for expressing my opinion about this shit.
Jesus Camp has an agenda, many Evangelical Christians have an agenda, whether they (the film makers or Evangelicals) want to admit it or not. If I were an Evangelical Christian, I would be ashamed to see that this is how children are treated in some camps and churches. It is emotional child abuse and it takes advantage of a childs innocence and emotional vulnerabilites. Children are taught to listen and trust parents, pastors, etc. and not to question what they say. Any person who would take advantage of that is abusing their power and abusing children. It's sick. Oh, and to JZP, you might want to deal with you homophobia and insecurities of your own sexuality.
just a small note, I find this terrible...because if some terrorist groups does that due to ignorance by the name of any religion , this doesnt mean others have to follow, Real religions Islam, christianty and Judism do not call for violence or raising kids to be extremists. Usually young people joining terrorist groups do that being frustrated and losing hope by seeing their own people humiliated, hurt and their lands and resources stolen!!!!thats what happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and occupied Palestine... Its not about religions!! One's religion, beliefs and relationship with God should be his own business without any intermediaries or people claiming perfection or being saints and prophets....
I know this thread is old, but I want to add for anyone listening that I have come to know the people featured in Jesus Camp and they are nothing like some of the conclusions people have arrived at. The film was made by a secular company. You have to give these people the benefit of the doubt and then listen to them: they actually make sense. They have a blog at jesuscampers.com.
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