Jesus Creed

Generous (evangelical) orthodoxy: catholic

Saturday August 13, 2005

When I was in seminary, one of my teachers was asked "What kind of evangelical are you?" and he said, "I am a C.S. Lewis kind of evangelical?" To which he was asked yet another, "What kind is that?" and...
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Kerry Doyal
August 13, 2005 7:15 AM
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It is sad that our fine point distinctions now define us. Side dishes should never overwhelm, crowd out or merge with and mess up the Main Dish - Jesus.When the Prime Rib takes on the flavor of the broccoli, some thing has gone wrong. Who took that green stuff out of it own little bowl?Deciding what is a side dish & what is parsley / a garnish is part of the problem. As well as the proper concern for fat and gristle left on the Prime Rib, or healthy chunks carved off. Alas, it can be hard to sit at the same table with other folks. Sorry, I guess you shouldn't post when you are hungry.

Aly H.
August 13, 2005 9:42 AM
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Wonderful, Scot - thank you.I am reading Alan Jacobs's "A Theology of Reading: The Hermeneutics of Love" and he quotes Milbanks as calling Christianity's eschatalogical vision "something like the peaceful transmission of difference, or differences in continuous harmony." Jacobs goes on to suggest that they key is to find difference that is purified of the "violence of exclusion" and quotes Miroslav Volf at length:"A judgment that names exclusion as an evil and differentiation as a positive good, then, is itself not an act of exclusion. To the contrary, such judgment is the beginning of the struggle against exclusion...The remedy for exclusionary judgements is certainly not 'ironic stances.' Instead, we need more adequate judgments based on a distinction between legitimate 'differentiation' and illegitimate 'exclusion' and made with humility."-Aly

Scot McKnight
August 13, 2005 9:45 AM
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Aly,Thanks for this. Glad you are reading Jacobs. That book is one of the best I've read in the last decade.

Bob
August 13, 2005 9:53 AM
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Dr. McKnight,I appreciate this: in this knowledge we have to work to be more than tolerant: we need to appreciate the differences. It speaks to more than "does that mean we have to accept those who believe ________? (insert heresy here)" It goes to loving the traditions of others. I was raised Roman Catholic, became disaffected, "became" non-denominational Christian. But now I am coming to appreciate the concentrated power of the Catholic mass, its climax at communion, its appreciation of saints (as those who have gone before). I don't think I'll be a practicing RC again but I can definitely worship with them. I think McClaren covers this quite well.

Scot McKnight
August 13, 2005 10:25 AM
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Bob,Have you seen the little caricature of spiritual developments by Dan Kimball?You might like this:http://www.dankimball.com/vintage_faith/2005/08/reality_church.html

John Frye
August 13, 2005 11:55 AM
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Scot, it's amazing that our evangelical (even more fundamentalist) background confused human generosity with the "C" word--compromise. Again, I believe if you start with Platonic "perfection" in Theology Proper, you produce a species of Christians who *must* get it right, purely, absolutely right, even in the things that don't matter to the core things. If we start with Jesus on the Cross and work both backwards and forwards in thinking about God, then there's the grand ability to express a deep and wide generosity. Does this approach "water down" historic orthodoxy? I don't think so. I think it gives us a capacity to both embrace historic orthodoxy and the world as it is now. As someone blogged in recently and commented that they were told that if you don't believe in the (pre-trib) rapture, you're not a Christian. I feel deep grief over that kind of stuff.Thanks for leading toward a Jesus-kind-of-orthodoxy-and-orthopraxy.

John Mark Hicks
August 13, 2005 12:25 PM
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Scot,You might be interested in a bit of the Lutheran, Puritan and Stone-Campbell (Disciples) use of the Augustinian saying. You can read Rollmann's article at http://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume_039/rq03903rollmann.htmThe value of plurality--even plurality of interpretations--is, according to Smith in his Fall of Interpretation, a value of creation itself. The value in the history of the church is seen in your post--we have something to learn from all historic expressions of Christianity.John Mark Hikcks

Rooted in Him
August 13, 2005 9:16 PM
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As I have been reading your series, I have appreciated the insight about a "generous orthodoxy." A narrow and cramped orthodoxy is very satisfying to our flesh. However, I doubt it has any effect on the work of the Holy Spirit in others, only in us. In the "Screwtape Letters," CS Lewis writes that the church is "spread out through time and space and 'terrible as an army with banners.'" I have liked the image this presents. And now I can also enjoy its generosity.

Jamie Arpin-Ricci
August 13, 2005 11:51 PM
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Scot,Seeing that 'catholic' means universal, it was encompass many cultures. What place or influence do you believe contextualization should have in this generous orthodoxy, especially when being generous often requires laying down ones context on some level?I am not sure I asked that clearly, but I'll leave it at that for now.Peace,Jamie

Scot McKnight
August 14, 2005 6:33 AM
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Jamie,Coming soon.

Patti Blount
January 7, 2006 5:52 PM

Your group has called me a "protestant" because you have said that I've protested against your beliefs, way back when. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, to the best of my spiritual ability which He is working in me day by day. Please don't feel obliged to include me in your group, as I don't want to be a part of a group whose many beliefs defy and ignore the heart of God. Please be intolerant towards me, I don't mind. The Lord said to "Come out from among them, and be seperate, or you will share in their plagues." I keep coming out further and further, and am finding myself at the feet of Jesus. I think I'll stay here. It's warm and safe.

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About Jesus Creed

Scot McKnight is a widely-recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. He is the Karl A. Olsson Professor in Religious Studies at North Park University (Chicago, Illinois). A popular and witty speaker, Dr. McKnight has given interviews on radios across the nation, has appeared on television, and is regularly asked to speak in local churches and educational events. Dr. McKnight obtained his Ph.D. at the University of Nottingham (1986). Click to continue reading Scot McKnight's Bio...

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