If I were a prof, I would try to straddle the same fence, as you do here. Maybe even give a mini-demo or handout as to what is acceptable with them, and what is not. And whatever rule is set in place (as in sitting in front).

Is surfing the net really any different from day-dreaming? Or dozing? Or whatever young minds can invent to keep from focusing on a subject?
Were I a prof, I’d probably go right on lecturing and trying to engage my class to the best of their ability. Judgment day cometh (in nice essay fashion), when those who surfed the net will be accountible for their foolishness. I am…Peter

Ted,
I put a brief statement in my syllabus. I only have 2-3 students per class who actually even want to use computers in class.

If you can pass the class w/out paying attention…so be it. Of course, I’d probably wonder why I was holding their attention…then agian, competing w/ ebay isn’t all that easy;).

On the one hand, students browsing the web does not necessarily mean they are not paying attention (for example it is well known that some students learn better when they use their hands–for these students they may be listening quite well). On the other hand, I wouldn’t want anyone bringing their laptops to church and sending email. I think there should be some subliminal message sent explaining why this should not happen. Perhaps signs on the walls: laptops are to be used for wordprocessing purposes only. And then in each class explain what else they might access. For example in a Greek class they could access BibleWorks.

What is the eventual outcome that you want? When your students graduate and go into the real world, they are going to have the option to surf at work. As a prof there is probably a sting that some students may not be engaged and that they think they are smart enough to pass the course without paying attention. You can probably handle the sting because Jesus is your rock and your fortress. I think that you ought to pretend that it does not bother you. I would have a policy that if the students want to attend class fine and if they want to skip class that is fine too but they may miss something on the exam. Sixty
years ago there where 15 year olds fighting ( Flags of our Fathers) the Pacific and now we cant even get them to do their homework and act responsible……… why……….because we are always holding their hand and playing “adult” with them. Time did an article about it recently. http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050124/
“No laptops in class unless you’re willing to sit in the front row and run the risk of my quickly dipping in to check to see what’s on your screen.”
That sounds a little adulty and a little nuerotic. You could have a discussion with the class about how damaging it is to the class environment and if one person starts then more will follow and the quality of the class time will plummet. You want the class to be engaged but I dont think you can “rule” into existence. Instead of treating your students like high school kids or middle school kids with the idea of being able to check on their screen at any time. ……..treat them like PHd students. Dont play into their weakness elicite their strength……..summon it. Now if they fail an exam because they did not get all of the material in class that is too bad and they learn a valuable lesson.

Ego.
In our seminary classes probably 80% of the students use laptops. Do some surf? Sure. Their loss. But some will have lexicons open, or parallel translations – even be adding the professor’s ideas to their personal commentaries within those programs – if those thoughts are worthy.
Scot, you’re an awesome writer and I expect teacher. As a pastor I know the tendency to blast people that don’t seem to be paying attention. It doesn’t have it’s roots in a desire for effectiveness IMO, but in ego.
Let it go.

“Some feel entitled to do what they want if they have paid tuition; baloney. Tuition doesn’t entitle a student to do anything more than attend. The syllabus is a contract between professor and student.” Is this clearly spelled out by the college or is this unique to your classes? Having attended both your school and seminary this is the first time I have heard that sentiment. Of course when I was there computers occupied entire cold rooms in the basement. Things change.

Thinking about this question – which is, of course an issue I deal with both in classes I teach and in my personal behavior when attending seminars and lectures here and at meetings. A few questions come to mind:
First, do you take and/or grade on attendance or is attendance largely or entirely voluntary?
Second, is the class primarily a lecture format or a discussion format?
Third, how does it apply to faculty meetings?

David,
Thanks for this, but I don’t think I was offended that way. Really, that was not the issue. What I strive for is attention and interaction. As a teacher I sense a responsibility to help students along, and not paying attention in class either says the subject matter is not worth the bother or the student needs more discipline.
I have another rule that students don’t do homework for other classes. Why? Because it is pretense to sit in one room for attendance credit and not genuinely be there. I think the same way with surfing the net.
Seminary students are a different story altogether; they are 30+ years old. College students are being shaped into adults.
Kent,
Not sure what the first “this” refers back to.

RJS,
Attendance is required. I think interaction is important. Classes are lecture/discussion. The less discussion, the more lecture, and vice versa. Depends on class and subject, etc.
Now you’ve got me on Faculty Meetings. I attend and, with many others, we do things when topics arise that are not germane to our discipline. I’ll not say anymore of what I think of Faculty Meetings except that there is a much more efficient way of doing that sort of business.

The “this” is the syllabus as contract as opposed to the tuition payment. The quote I liftred from you post. Sorry for the confusion.

Kent,
I’ve heard the term “contract” many times, from a variety of corners, but I’m not sure it is in some official school policies document. But, we have an obligation to the student and the student to us. Almost a covenant!

I find a latent conviction, and perhaps even present in a comment or two here, that students can do what they want when they are in class, and that it is not the professor’s business what students are doing so long as they don’t disrupt the class.
I’d really like to know if many feel this way.

Well, this is an interesting issue, especially as more and more of the campus here goes wireless. I have taught everything from a first year class (we don’t have freshmen because it isn’t considered P.C.) with 450+ students enrolled in my section, to upper level classes for majors with 20-50 students, to graduate courses with 5-10 students and things between.
In the large classes (ca. 100+ students) I don’t worry about computers or other multi-tasking (newspapers, work for other classes, etc.) as long as the use isn’t a distraction to the students who want to pay attention. The exams will hold people to account – if a student knows the material does it matter? If the student doesn’t know the material the exam will usually show it. It is not worth policing.
In a smaller class discussion and interaction is integral. As the material becomes more complex this interaction often defines the pace of the class. Students present in body but not spirit are by definition a hindrance.

I may sound like an 85 year-old man in saying this-I’m only 26-but I believe that attitude comes from a lack of respect for authority and position that stems from a K-12 experience of being told to always question that said authority.

As a current student who does have a laptop in class, I wouldn’t like being made to sit in the front row. I think laptops are a bit nosiy and putting them in the back helps the students who notetake to have a clear view and to be undistracted by the tapping keys.
I had a class as an undergrad back at UCLA after lunch where I fell asleep once a week during class. I still got an A in the class.
I think we have to trust that kids will work it out. They know that they are supposed to pay attention, but they also have to manage the temptations to distract themselves. That’s part of growing up.
High school tries to manage kids for themselves. At what point are kids expected to fail if they make bad choices? To test out their own limits and discover what they are capable of? At what point do they have to figure out what to do when given the freedom to make their own decisions?
Also, I have definitely surfed the web during a lecture. I have turned to google and looked up topics related to the lecture. I think it’s agreat resource.
Email in class? Well, I hope not, but I remember passing notes in class… not so different.
Julie

You said: I find a latent conviction, and perhaps even present in a comment or two here, that students can do what they want when they are in class, and that it is not the professor’s business what students are doing so long as they don’t disrupt the class.
I’d really like to know if many feel this way.
Don’t you think you can state your expectation as the teacher and then it is up to the students whether or not they will conform? Also, if class participation is part of a student’s grade and you foster and encourage participation, it will be more difficult to ignore the lecture, won’t it?
I happen to be of the perspective (and I teach too, btw) that it’s my job to state my expectations, to foster a climate in class that makes participation vital and stimulating and that the students who don’t take advantage of those are hurting not me, but themselves… especially at the college level.
Julie

Scot,
I always say that the worst thing you can do to protect against the abuse of freedom is to remove that freedom (or even significantly limit it). The idea of having the computer users sit in the front row, especially since you say there are relatively few of them, seems a pragmatic option, but my undermine your authority by communicating a lack of trust or a presumption of guilt.
You are right about the latent conviction that it is the students responsibility to learn or not to learn, leaving the teacher to do their job. However, growing up in a family of educators, I know this is likely not a conviction you share (nor do I). No decent educator I know functions this way, owning a far higher sense of responsibility to the students learning. While you cannot be entirely responsible for what ever student does or does not learn, I share (and admire) your sense of higher commitment.
In the end, I think I would start by making your concerns known to the class, ask those in the room specifically and publically to honour your request, then leave that freedom to them- not in a threatening/presumptive way, but in a covenantal way (a mutual, moral commitment of character). You could moniter the grades of those using the computer if you wanted.
So, not presuming I know how to do your job better than you, as your are a heck of teacher even in this forum, I would err on the side of freedom every time.
Peace,
Jamie

Well, some of you’ve got me rethinking my new syllabus decision. I can understand the value of freedom (Jamie), which we do quite well with these days in college classes.
And, I resonate with the need to let students learn and fail from bad decisions (Julie).
Those two points make lots of sense to me.
Here’s the question that is behind my decision: At what point do we say that is inappropriate and won’t be tolerated behavior in class?
A few pastors have weighed in. I see classes more like staff meetings and seminars than public sermons to hundreds or even thousands. In a seminar with your staff, would you tolerate people sitting there on a laptop doing e-mails, etc? Of course most of us would see that as inappropriate, and we’d probably speak to such persons privately, at a break, etc..
I think it is a bad, bad habit for a student to attend class and plan to tune out by surfing the net; these are 18-21 year olds. It just seems appropriate to tell them (which I have always done) and to help form patterns that will help them down the road.

My contracts professor in law school famously disallows laptops in his class. Everyone moans for a minute, then adjusts, and truthfully finds the class more enjoyable. The reason he gave was the noise of keyboards in the classroom and the desire to have students think in class versus try to take transcripts.

Scot,
One issue that hasn’t been raised here, and perhaps does not pertain to your specific situation, is how this behavior directly affects others in your class.
In my seminary classes, it was the majority of students who used laptops regularly, and I was amazed at what I saw people do during lectures. In our largest lecure hall, I sat near the back every week and from that vantage point I could see the sea of solitaire going on while our seminary president lectured on faith and culture (ironic?). While I could mostly be amused there, it was a different story in my Hebrew exegetical study–smaller classroom, much more interactive setting. There was this one kid in particular who played this obnoxious war game week after week where Bush slowly took over the world. Sure he had his Logos bible software open so he could click over when it was his turn to work out the translation, but that was it.
All that to say, the issue I am raising is how such behavior affects other students in terms of distraction/annoyance. I like what Jamie said about raising the issue as a character/moral/respect thing. I would add to that that it is not just you that they are committed to in the classroom but to other students in the room as well. I had a prof in seminary who talked to us the first day about coming into class late as an issue of disrespect for each other. It was convicting and we were all super conscientous after that.

I think you’re spot on with your request. I can provide a business analogy as well. I am a manager in an IT department for a large North American Insurance company. Despite the fact that we “geeks”, if anyone, would entertain the use of laptops for notetaking – we’ve encountered the same problem in meetings (where you also need attention and interaction).
People answering emails, and surfing the web. In our IT group we don’t allow laptops in meetings unless they are the basis for a computer projected presentation.
I also agree with you that just because someone pays tuition it does not give them the right to do what they want.
Here’s an alternative: have them get the proper digital recorders, and buy “Dragon Naturally Speaking” either version 8 or 9. For less than $300 (or the price of front section at the next Dave Matthews concert) they can have a great transcription service.
So rather than remove the freedom… replace it.

I’ll chime in here as a university student myself who uses a laptop in class.
I attend a small university with small classes, so interaction is fundamental to our classes. Probably about 2/3 of the people who bring laptops to class just piss around on the web and IM each other during class. They are most assuredly not paying much attention, and most importantly, are not engaged in the class’ discussion.
One interesting issue that’s been skirted but not addressed: I’m all for allowing people the freedom to learn from their mistakes, but this betrays all of our indiviualist bias here a bit, doesn’t it? The whole class is shortchanged if I am robbing them of my participation by being disengaged on the net. Maybe if we saw the class as a whole rather than a collection of individuals…
Oh, and here’s a funny story: I harbored disdain for those who would log on to msn messenger during class. “Idiots,” I thought. But the one time I logged in, for no particular reason at all, I immediately received a message before I could mute my volume and the telltale “ding” rang through the class! My classmates all knew what it was, but the prof was older and blissfully unaware (thankfully). Mmmm, humble pie.

Joe,
Tell me more about this Dragon thing — not purchasing, etc — but is it a recorder within the computer? If it is, it might just complicate my problem: they might all have their computers and not have to pay attention if what they want is notes!
You might be able to guess that I like to “provoke” in class. True, in some sessions we have to cover material, but I do like more than anything else the question that provokes students to disagree with me, the text, or one another. Or the student question that moves from said text/lecture into implication for theology or life.

For me the bottom line is it is your class. You set the parameters and the rules. The students will have to learn that lesson the moment they hit the work force. Yes they have freedom, but as you say in a staff meeting we do not have intentionally multiple agendas openly operating at one time. You are da boss.

one practical problem: sometimes people with laptops need to plug in their computers for class and sitting in the front row may make this difficult…especially if more than 1 proff did that.
Another thought is that maybe the problem is not completely with the laptops, but with the expectations. It sounds like you Scott have a required attendance grade. Maybe attendance should be specified as not simply occupying a seat, but actively engaging discussion on a regular basis. this gives the students the freedom to zone out (or surf the web if they have a comp) once in a while (especially if they are having a really hard time in life and need a little break). But it also provides the structure you are seeking (to help give them good habits for the future). and, if you encounter the super shy student, they can talk to you 1 on 1 and let you know they are paying attention, but just aren’t the most talkative in class…
i remember classes where discussion was a huge focus. the proff would always call on people randomly and ask them questions. this habit of asking questions to random poeple kept everyone engaged and on top of things…

Paul, fair thoughts.
On discussion… I don’t grade on discussion because there are different kinds of students and personalities. Some prefer not to talk; others talk all the time (and too much). So, I don’t expect everyone to talk every day, but in classes of 25-35, I do work hard at getting everyone talking. In the larger Jesus of Nazareth class, I’ve always got some who sit in corners to avoid having to talk — and I respect that, though I’d prefer for them to do some talking.
I do some random asking of questions.

Scot,
I’m an adjunct professor in a non-traditional program. The classes are small (6-18 students), and the courses last only five weeks.
First, I agree with your feeling of responsibility to engage each student. I don’t think it has anything to do with ego. It is about “doing your job.”
I’ve had this problem only once. And it really threw off my “rhythm.” I found myself trying too hard to engage this particular student.
I did a faculty evaluation for a class that was held in a company training facility. Each station had a computer with Internet access. At least half the students were surfing the during the lecture. I don’t think any professor can really compete with the Internet. It’s an unfair contest.
One of the problems is the idea that the purpose of a class is to transfer information from the professor’s lecture into student notes. There are so many other more efficient ways to transmit information. The purpose of the classroom is to go beyond the information, to discuss its implications.
I think your solution is reasonable, but I’d be inclined to ban laptops altogether in that situation. Then I’d e-mail students lecture notes after the class. Or better yet, I’d e-mail the lecture notes before the class and skip over the lecture straight into discussion. This would require students who are more disciplined that normal, however.
Just a few thoughts,
Rod

Scot,
At the risk of throwing around a “trendy” term, college/university is a liminal experience for most 18-21 year olds. Therefore, there is always the dynamic tension between allowing them to wrestle with the new and necessary freedoms of adulthood AND providing the needed structures and guidelines to contribute to the formation of responsible choices. Few will get a second chance at this stage of development, so I think it wouldn’t be doing them a favour to give absolute freedom. I think you are on the right track.
Peace,
Jamie

Scot; I agree with your classroom rule. The problem, as I see it in my life is the inability to suustain focussed thought. Web surfing, like channel surfing, like magazine browsing is scanning pictures and words without the discipline of sustained and rigorous thought. Bravo to you!
What about lap tops in churches that are wi-fi?

the problem with rules like that is that it only makes those who want to do other stuff rather than interact find other options that would entertain them (other than listen) and punishes those who want to use laptops but don’t care to sit on the front row.
Call me rebellious, but if you made a big deal about it and I was in your class, I would think it petty.
BTW, I graduated from Bible College in 1997 and people were doing it back then. I wonder how long it took for you to notice?

I am an adjunct teaching at a very large seminary. I teach classes that are required of most MDiv students so demand for the classes can often be high. I say all of this because my attitude toward internet browsers, infrequent attenders, consistent late-comers, and the like is affected by the knowledge that there are always a dozen or so students who were waitlisted or prevented from registering because the class was full. It seems a disservice to those students when some of their fellow students are able to register and then do nothing but take up space in the class.
I have a policy in my syllabus that anyone caught browsing, emailing, or IMing will be asked to leave the class until they are ready to return and be present (in all senses of the word). I also have policies in place for students who are tardy or miss a class. If the web browser returns to class after being dismissed, I treat them as a tardy. They are required to bring treats to the whole class at our next meeting. It is only fair that they treat the class after they’ve disrupted it. If the web browser does not return I treat them as an absent and they are required to submit an outline and review of the readings for the class they missed.
The key is that the policy depends on the web user being caught. Who has time to police this sort of thing? I am hoping that policies printed in syllabi might dissuade internet use. I may be kidding myself.

Hi Scot,
I attended Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, where laptops are not only allowed but required in each class. The seminary leases laptops to students and we can buy them out after our graduation for a buck. not a bad deal. What i wanted to say was that having laptops was a blessing and a curse. why, i ask, is it necessary to run wireless internet everywhere? why not just allow “plug-in” internet in certain group rooms etc? I loved having a laptop, but found it frustrating that fellow students (and sometimes me) were surfing, i.m.ing, emailing, pointing out funny sites to one another in class and smirking, laughing, poking one another et. al. I know anyone could play solitaire or whatever without internet, but it would certainly remove my temptation.
Of course, it’s my opinion that laptops should be used only for taking notes in class anyway. I don’t mind the noise. I just mind the distraction it can be.
for what it’s worth,
mike

Don,
Great question: Do folks sit in your services with their laptops? I’d say “no” to that one, too.
But, I’ve never seen it happen.
Matt,
Not until this spring did it really register with me that students were doing this in my classes in a way that was planned and just plain surfing. So, it took me a long time. I was told by some seminary students last year that they were reading my blog during class. I thought it was funny, to be honest with you. I don’t, however, think it is a good idea. However, if a professor gives notes out (complete) and the proceeds to lecture through them with little additional material, why pay attention to anything other than questions?
Chris,
You’re farther down the line on this one than I. I’ll have to see how this works. Bringing treats is a fun sort of discipline isn’t it? I can see students finding that fun.

Yes, people sit in services with wi-fi, a.k.a. Blackberries, a.k.a. CRACKberries, and in one case, I know by the end of the service someone had verified the facts of an assertion that the speaker had made: found it false via his trusty Google. “In Google We Trust.”
Scot, it’s interesting that you bring this up. The noise of the laptops is an issue for some. My son went off to college last week. One of the things we are concerned about in his adjustment to university is that he has significant hearing loss…one of the things that can affect this most is “white noise” in the classroom when HE IS trying to listen to the professor.

Honestly I do not know how i could survive in a class without the use of my laptop. I can take notes so much faster that way. And to the point that I nearly dictate everything the professor says. And which is why generally in most classes I go to I generally have the other students lining up with their email accounts to get copies of the notes. All I ask is that if they visually depict something through visual aid that they lend it to me so I can scan it into my notes. It honestly takes more effort for me to handwrite than it is to type. I guess its just a sign of my generation or something. Taking notes by hand just seems so foreign.
On your rule you should make allowances due to power outlets. In one intensive I just recently took there were 30 of us in the class. 28 of us used laptops to take notes, view the power point, and amend the pictures with information we wanted. And this was a theology class!
Anyhow i know it can be annoying. But if someone really wants to be miles away they always can. In highschool if I ever wanted to I would just bring a magazine and throw it into my textbook.
Oh yeah and as a professor something I would encourage you to allow, and if you school allows, is to allow your students to video record the class via their webcams in order to assist with the studying.

Many, if not most, of my professors put their lecture notes on the class web site (we use Blackboard). Notes are usually not put up until the day of class. Students bring laptops to class because they can access those the notes for themselves without having to be sure to copy everything down correctly.
My experience is that this totally changes how I am able to listen to what is being taught. I don’t have to worry so much about physically getting things copied down to study later, I can focus on understanding what is really being said. I’ve experienced college classes both ways (with and without notes being provided online) and greatly prefer to have the notes available, not because I’m lazy, but because it allows me to go to a higher level of understanding when I don’t have to worry about getting everything down. Having a laptop connected to the internet in order to see the class notes is just like having a common text open.
The way I see it, if students do a little multi-tasking, its not the end of the world. It’s the same thing as if they were doodling on the side of their handwritten notes. The students who are fully engaged in something else on the internet are either bored because they already have the material down, or they are not motivated and the exams will reveal that.

Oh and in class I do not know how many times have I been able to access resources from CCEL such as the church fathers to make a point in class. I am able to give exact citations to things I may loosely remember so much easier this way.
Also using resources like wikipedia for pop culture or NewAdvent.org for some indepth stuff has come in useful. Heck even being able to backtrack and talk of things that have been on blogs have been useful too. Though I have only once been able to bring this blog up in discussion yet. Though this is an excellent blog to say the least!

I am a long-time software engineer with a large firm and I have to say that the problem of IMing/email/surfing is endemic in our meetings and in our classes. Leaders have adopted a number of strategies including banning laptops, pop questions, etc.
I agree with a number of folks here who have suggested sending out lecture notes or full transcripts after the class. Doing that eliminates the primary reasons for using the laptop in the first place and certainly eliminates the need for the things to be constantly in use.
On the other hand, I think that all-out banning sends the wrong message and might actually hamper the kind of discussion that you really want to see happen. The paradigm of the day involves the use of the Internet to check out ideas. So I suggest that you find a policy that supports the use of laptops in the right way and discourages the alternative.
I can think of a couple strategies:
1. Make it a rule that laptops are allowed but must generally be closed. Open them only to check something out, not for notes, not for long Web research. Ask questions of people who do open their laptops to see what they learned.
2. Indicate up front that allowing laptops at all is contingent on them actually being used to enhance the classroom experience. If they fail to do so, they will be banned. (This is called, “Passing the monkey.” Now the job if proving their value to the class is on their backs, not yours!)
I also think that you are hedging a bit when you defend the teacher’s right to rule the classroom and then defer to each student’s style about participation. If some level of participation is desired, make it part of the incentive system. If staying tuned in is part of the program, use pop questioning to test it, and grade accordingly.

It hasn’t been that long since I was in college, and I have to say that few things pissed me off more than when profs got all totalitarian. One of the great frustrations of the univeristy life is that people can’t decide whether you’re an adult or not. I’ve also taught both in church and a more traditional educational setting, and I know how frustrating it is to be tuned out after putting a lot of work into your material.
Still, I think the best approach is not to make any rules regarding laptop use (unless they actually become a distraction due to noise). Instead, make it your practice to call on the laptop users first; they’ll get the hint pretty quickly.
Regarding the question of whether a class is more like a sermon or a staff meeting, I’d say the answer is obvious: at a staff meeting you’re paying them; in a class, they’re paying you. The student is not obligated to get anything out of the class (hence the existance of the “F”); let them do their thing and deal with the consequences. They’ll learn eventually.

Hey Cliff, what about people who like to take notes on keyboards? I switched from hand written notes to laptop notes and love it! I can easily rearrange things later, add my notes from reading to teh appropriate plces in the lectures, highlight and bold, fix mistakes and more through computer taken notes than from handwritten ones.
Sending out lecture notes might eliminate that need, but then that also might eliminate the need to attend class (in some students’ minds).
Julie

Scot,
Bring in a computer for yourself. Type and lecture at the same time. I wonder what sort of feedback you would get from the students.
Richie

It scares me to think that it has been a while (although not that long) since I sat in a classroom other than as an observer or a guest lecturer. But I’m floored by all the “it will send out the wrong message” comments.
I just don’t buy that, Scot, and I suggest you don’t either. If you are perceived already as a “tough/mean/bad” professor, this rule won’t make that noticeably worse. If you are perceived already as a “good/insightful/entertaining” professor, I’m sure you will get through the implementation of this policy without a hiccup to your reputation.
But maybe my view is warped by the fact that I never understood the “transcribing every word said” approach to learning.
Having sat through lecture halls that had 100+ laptops with keys clacking and those that didn’t, give me the latter every time.
The notion that you should hand out lecture notes if you ban laptops seems a tad over the top to me, too. Since when was paper and pen such an unreasonable request of a student?

Richie, your suggestion is brilliant!
Julie

From my time in college, Scot. I couldn’t understand those profs who graded on attendance. There were some classes that I could do the work and pass the tests just by reading the textbook. What mattered, it seemed to me, is assignments and tests reflecting I understood the material. I also figured, I was a young adult, and if I screwed off in class or assignments or tests, then I took the consequences. Let those reflect my mastery of the material, not attendance.
So, if a student can grasp what’s going on and be off surfing the net, or surf the net and lose grasp of some things going on, let it reflect in how well or unwell they do on assignments and tests.
From my friends who have done grad classes, laptops were the norm for note taking.

Scot,
The way it works is as follows:
Install the Dragon software on a computer (it would not have to be a laptop). You do need to “train” the computer to recognize speech patterns for accuracy. One does this by reading a prepared text (you have your choice of several) provided by the Dragon software package. It takes 15 minutes of reading ingot a voice recorder to accomplish this task.
What you could provide to your students would be a “training” file. This is required to maximize the accuracy of the programs ability to transcribe from voice to text, and the students computer would be better able to recognize your voice.
The student then would just bring a digital voice recorder to class (there is a large list of those compatible with the software) – record the discussion.
You would then move the recording (mp3, wav, etc.) of the discussion to the students computer – I was testing an Olympus recorder last week that simply plugs in as a USB device. Using the software it would then transcribe the digital recording into Word, for instance.
So no laptops in the class, but a better way to use digital audio recorders.
We’re actually piloting this method here at work to take statements in the field.
You can get more technical info here: http://www.nuance.com/

Yeh. Since college and continuation of note taking with lecture, I found I learn a lot better when I just listen, nothing else, just listen. I retain better than when taking notes.
How I wish learning institutions could be more like personal learning, when time can be allowed to figure out what the heck it has to do with life, not to mention, just wrapping one’s brain around the concept. The one example that sticks out with me is when I was reading Shakespeare for some English class. All I knew is I had a zillion pages to read a day to keep up with all classes. I didn’t have time to read Shakespeare And figure out what the heck they were saying. I just read the pages, lost for the most part. Were there to have been time, I might have tried to digest what the heck they were saying. I haven’t read him since.

I wonder if the positions taken in this discussion can divided by age? Say those over 40 and those unde 40. Those who are less incline to tolerate restrictions and rules come from the younger set, and those who are more in line with setting the rules are over 40? I am more curious than anything else.

Well, I opened up a can of worms here and didn’t know what would come flinging out!
A comment about “notes”: I’m surprised how many see “note taking” as so important to class. I lecture from outlines, and do give things that can be taken down as notes, but I surely don’t see that as the major thing. I see information and notes as foundational, but then hope that the information will generate conversation and debate and discussion and revision and all that.
It is in processing the notes/info that students begin to make connections themselves and move on to more critical self-awareness and deeper understandings.
I’m sure most agree with this whole point, but I’d like to push it forward a bit.

Hey Kent, you can make me 40 or under if you want, but I’m not. Not sure opinions can be divided according to age. Over 40′s are Republicans and under 40′s are Democrats. Nah.

Yeh, but, Scot. If students just listen, and participate in discussion, will they have retained enough material to pass the grade making portions? Notes in part, are about getting information down so it can be used to pass tests. If only we would be graded on what we retain, like in post college life.

I always post lecture notes on a class website after class, so students can fill in things missed, check facts, etc. if desired. Only rarely will I do so ahead of time however. Of course the text book is always available as well.
But, the point of the class session is not so much to present or impart facts as to teach insight, intuition, connections, and ways of thinking intelligently about material. Frankly, I find teaching or encouraging students to learn how to think to be the hardest part of the job.

Hi Scott.
A law professor recently made the headlines for banning laptops in her classroom. I’ve got the story here:
http://aaronghiloni.blogspot.com/2006/05/law-professor-bans-laptops-from.html

To soften the personal blow, my guess is your students do not even consider email checking an offensive move, but simply a choice to live with a lesser grade in exchange for a less focused attention-span.
HOWEVER, if you make it clear that–in your estimation– laptops should be used for notes only and that you consider other usage a breech of contract between professor and student, I suspect that students will respect your clearly defined guidelines. On their honor even.
I suppose professors lament the fact that no-email use in class was once a given. As a high school teacher, I find similar absurdities: for example, I consider it a given that high school students are still responsible for threats made to other students–even if they make these via online journals (like myspace) but you wouldn’t believe how many of them are absolutely SHOCKED they are accountable for their virtual actions as well. (Their parents are often equally shocked.)

Very, very interesting post and comments.
I haven’t read every word of the comments, so forgive me if this is redundant. When I teach seminary classes for Fuller, I expect students to use their computers to take notes (or whatever). I couldn’t ever do the “front row” rule because there are way too many computers. In my last class, I think every student took notes on computer (or at least appeared to be doing so).
I guess I’m on the other side of this one, in that I’m not terribly concerned what students are actually doing with their computers, as long as they’re not disturbing others. Too much web surfing or e-mailing or gaming could bother other students, and this would be bad. But if my students are foolish enough to do things other than pay close attention to class lectures and discussion, then I figure it’s their loss. I’m not going to compel them to take notes only, even as I wouldn’t have a rule about not writing the world’s greatest novel when it seems as if they’re taking notes.
Is it rude for students to look as if they’re taking notes when in fact they’re buying movie tickets from Fandango? Perhaps. It’s like talking with someone who seems to be paying attention but is actually daydreaming. But I don’t take too much offense, really. I just think of it as their loss. They’re wasting their money and time. As long as they aren’t bothering others, including me, I wouldn’t press the point, at least I haven’t so far.
I have a friend who admit to me that sometimes he checks football scores in church on his PDA while I’m preaching. Now that’s what I call cheeky!

I am a thirty year old seminarian, but the school I attended as an undergraduate is a completely computer integrated wireless community. Every student has a laptop. After seeing the younger adults using laptops in class for notes, web surfing, and instant messaging I would say that most of the college students from the generation you are teaching are more capable of absorbing multiple information sources almost simultaneously than students from my generation or yours.
While you or others may view this as a lack of participation or interest in the course material being covered, many (not all) of the students will be able to listen to the class discussion, check e-mail, surf the web, instant message, and take notes all the while missing very little information conveyed to them.
Just some thoughts from my experiences in an e-campus environment.

There’s nothing new under the sun… Thirty years as an albeit engineering student at Cambridge (UK), I spent many happy lectures reading anything from science fiction to modern classics. And got good grades.
And please keep up the excellent and helpful blogging!

I’ve taught a couple of times in smaller groups and in that context, someone sitting there typing on a totally different track would be distracting. I have encouraged students to not attend if they felt they could not connect. In the end the curriculm and assesment will find them out if they do not do the work. Moreover, if the material is compelling their fellow students and their assesment will point out what is being missed by not connecting in class. A few assignments with big red marks indicating “this was covered in detail in class” can have a big impact.
I’ve also taught a larger class, which was a compulsary ordination course and had mandatory assesment. It was a tough situation because some students were clearly only there because they had to be.
If I had students surfing the web during my class, I would be more prone to blame myself than to blame them. Maybe I am failing as an educator and communicator, maybe my material is not as compelling, maybe I need to work harder.

I am with Jon B
While at theolotical college, I spent a lot of time reading the Bible or other books during dull lectures. It was the most useful skill I obtained, listening and reading at the same time. I have found it useful in many meetings over the years.

Scot – they’re adults, and they’ve paid to be there.

Scot,
I didn’t know that students were doing this in my classroom until last semester. Our classrooms are not wireless, so I thought it was impossible. Then I found out that one girl was surfing the web using her Verizon wireless card. Until then, I didn’t even know that technology existed. But it does explain why she always sat next to the window.
Denny

SCot..great blog content. As an educator in a high school, we are encouraged to use power points…they are a challenge to do and very time consuming to make good ones! It’s not easy. I’m not sure the students appreciate them, though they seem to take better notes with the outline in front of them.

Tips for Teachers » Todd’s Thoughts

[...] Ok, so my comments aren’t so helpful on this one, but if it gets the aspiring teacher to read his, this post is worth it.? I’ll have more to disagree with on others, especially his PowerPoint and computer posts. Ugh! [...]

“You will do this, and you will do that, and you will do the other thing, or I will give you an F.” Not a contract. A contract has one MAJOR feature to it that a syllabus does not: agreement by both parties without coercion of any sort. All of your students have a major interest – already expended money – in obeying the syllabus. But how many of them can avoid your classes if they want to graduate? So there’s a coercive factor present. Sorry.