20somethings and "Sustainable Faith"

In some ways, that's an encouraging report. Twenty-somethings may be largely rejecting traditional churches, but don't they largely deserve rejection? Wouldn't Jesus reject most of them? In some of the more meaningful measures of spirituality, they are as strong as people of other generations.

Some real look at alternative models of working with youth is probably in order. But not from the perspective of the institutional church. Don't measure success by how many are involved in a traditional institutional church, or buy into a traditional way of intellectualizing Christian faith. Measure through such things as involvement in groups which do a considerable amount of spiritual sharing and effects on their lives (compassion, integrity, lifestyle, vocational choices, etc.) of their faith.

But also realize it isn't primarily in technique. It's going to be far more critical what kind of adults they are around in the environment. If they can look at them and really see Christ in the way they live, that's going to be effective even if they are using pretty lame techniques in the program. And the best techniques aren't going to do much good if the people leading are following a program, and not exemplifying the fruits of discipleship.

Great Post, I am finding this true in the lives of my three teen daughters. Youth group does not challenge them. They attend a high school that pushes them to excell at their accademics, advanced courses in lit and chemistry, ap courses in other areas, yet when they go to youth group, they are neither challenged to faith, to serve or to pursue Christ, rather they are to have fun and hear a watered down ramble about "Christ".

Very discouraging to see that the church is the last place we are challenged to love God with our mind.

Does Kinnaman offer suggestions what youth ministry ought to look like, what components need to be added? Does Ginny Olson have any suggestions?

I won't be able to follow this thread today because I'm travelling, but I wanted to throw my two cents in. A couple things:

(1) I find the stats on churched/unchurched teenagers to be meaningless. 61% of teens are churched (61% of of young adults "had been")? Half attend somewhere weekly? 1/3 at a christian club? You have got to be kidding me. Locally, that does not bear out and the the other youthworkers I know would agree with me. My sense is that is it more 80% unchurched, 20% churched at the local level. I can't speak for the survey responders, but at one of our 2400 person High Schools, I would never venture that more than 3-400 are following Jesus in any way shape or form (and I am being optimistic with that).

(2) In light of that, I don't see the young adult statistics as that out of whack. If 2/3 of Barna's 61% didn't have any kind of real faith to begin with, it's no wonder.

(3) A huge issue for me is the utter disconnect (for so many) between high school and college. Mea culpa: as a youthworker I have struggled (and often failed) with how to support students and bridge through this transition. The local church attendance scene almost always drops off the map in the first 2-3 weeks of college and then is functionally non-existent. The isolation, challenge, and pressure that many experience throws tons of students off-kilter. Most of our students are college-bound kids who go off to large universitites hours or more away, but increasingly we see some more sticking around for 2-year degrees and transfers. That may open a better route to keeping involved in their lives.

(4) I don't know what to do - really. There are lots of ideas, and I like the last line of the post. I believe in my heart that such is what we are all after - we want desperately for that to happen. But we also know that many students in our ministries and churches just aren't there yet and often aren't that interested in going there. Just as many in the seats on sunday mornings are not passionate about following Jesus.

grace and peace
Andy

How I wish I would have had POSITIVE discipling in my 20's. While I don't 'regret' my life choices...there were choices made out of ignorance that wouldn't have had to impact my life had I been exposed to discipleship and truth.

My own experience in a small group in college (under the guise of a "Discipleship Training course", left me high and dry for all things religion for some time.

From talking to the 20-somethings who attend our church I find that they are seeking something relevant and a place where they have a voice and can openly discuss beliefs and questions about things taught. They meet weekly with the pastor to have this forum and ultimatley have become more involved in serving in church. I think they may be an exception.

I've been a 20-something for seven years now. I don't think this is something that we could pin down, but in my experience I could generalize a few reasons I've seen. First, is the disillusionment, experimentation, etc. Second, and I've seen a GREAT deal of this since I've returned to church--20-somethings want to be entertained. They often do not have a great "need" (that they feel) for serious, committed, sacrificial spiritual engagement. Life hasn't hit them yet (somebody commented on settling down later in life).

I find it interesting to think about how many 20-somethings that ARE going to the church are suffering from the same "Entertain Me" disease.

Does anyone else remember the study done recently by Christian Smith about spirituality in teenagers? One of his main points was:

- Many Christian youth do not really have a firm understanding of what Christianity is (doesn't he call it something like they really believe in Moralistic Theraputic Deism?)

- these teenagers get this primarily from their parents (which means many parents don't really get Christianity either)

I am a youth pastor, so i understand the problems of youth ministry. But i would like to add something in addition to Kinnaman's points about youth ministry. It is not primarily the job of the youth ministry to raise up these kids...but the parents and commnunity as a whole.

I would like to propose that one big reason (in addition to youth ministries having problems) that 20 somethings have problems is their parents and other Christians who live double lives. Most people in our Sunday morning service don't fully live out Christian lives. Our young people see this, and get frustrated.

I don't think we can point the finger at youth ministries completely (although this is part), but also at the parents and the rest of the Christian Community

I am not sure what to make of the study. It doesn't give me a good sense of the nature of the youth ministries that these kids were exposed to and the recommendations still feel a bit "schema" oriented to me.

I suppose I was a bit of an opposite case than what the study presents. My early teens were the years that I was withdrawing from the church. It was college and my twenties that rooted me in the faith.

I would say that most of what passes for youth ministry is garbage. My parish growing up had an active youth ministry, and probably wasn't bad by most standards. But it wasn't attractive to me. Why? Well, I'm sure there were plenty of reasons, but a key one is that there was nothing different about it. What I mean is that you could have pulled it out of the context of a church and plunked it down in a secular school or community organization. Sure Jesus may have been mentioned, but there wasn't anything different about the way they were together. That's a sign of a true community rooted in Christ. When the ordinary things that one would do with any group (camping, picknicking, etc.) are the same yet altogether different because of who we understand ourselves to be in Christ. Not some artificial gloss we tack on to the activities, but truly different in being.

And although I understand the need to associate with one's peers, the degree of age compartmentalization that goes on in a lot of ministry I think is defeating. No real community only consists of 20-somethings. Our families don't. Our workplaces tend not to. We recognize this on a deeper level (maybe not always consciously) and I think it's a factor at play in youth ministry.

I see two things that might attribute to the problem. The first is the need to take seriously humanity. It's the starting point for modern culture and it is for most of us, too. Too often we present the Gospel in a way that implies that our humanity needs to be reduced or lessened. When just the opposite is true; in Christ is my humanity truly revealed and realized and by following Him attentively can I become more human. I've mentioned before being part of a movement. In a recent talk, the priest that leads our movement hit on this: "Christ will
go on interesting us if He is able to answer the needs of the “I,” the present need to live our work, our relationship with our children, the things we worry about. The crucial point is the present. If we do not live in the present, if Christ does not answer in the present, we all
know that we begin to doubt that Christ is able to respond to our real needs. It is true that we have had an encounter, but we cannot live on the profits from past investments." That's a very different attitude and approach to ministry. And I think that question resounds for the young: greater fulfillment in our every day lives.

Finally, I do think ecclesiology is a factor. If Christ and his visible Church are not well connected in your theology, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Christ becomes a very interior, subjective experience versus one rooted in a communion with others.

As a 20something, I echo these stats from my observation of my peers. Of those who attended the youth group of which I was a part, only 6-7 of the 34 are still actively involved in any type of church context. As far as those who still attend the denomination they grew up in (church of Christ) that number dips to two (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

I struggle in my church context because the general feeling seems to be that those twenties who left will be back when they have kids because they'll recognize the importance of raising children "with God." Based on what I see - I doubt that. As stated above, my peers don't automatically associate church with God.

Kinnaman nailed it, by the way.

I'll add my voice to the chorus: I am 23, I have been a spiritual leader among my peers for about 7 years, and I can say with conviction that the stats are dead on as far as I can tell. I've watched the "spirituality" and church involvement of my peers drop like flies.

The way I see it (and I prefer to look for root causes), there are a couple of things that play a part in the increasing apathy of 20-somethings when it comes to God and his church. The first is that the church is growing more and more consumeristic, focusing on websites and presentations, record-company-worthy music and tours. And they would be right to assume that this will draw 20-somethings by the droves. But in the end, if you want to keep them, you've gotta grab their hearts. If you really listen to a 20-something, they will most likely tell you that they are looking for a place to belong, and they are looking for a God who is real. And aren't we all? The trouble is that we spend so much time generating superfluous media that we don't spend enough time introducing 20-somethings to the life-changing power of Jesus, whether that be through scripture or worship or hands-on prayer. Call me a die-hard charismatic, but if you look at the history of revivals through the centuries, just about every single one came with the power of the Holy Spirit falling upon men and women in a tangible way, stirring up faith and action. I'm talking about physical healing and all of the other signs and wonders that we see in Acts. It happened in living rooms, and church basements. Not with fancy projector screens and sound systems. And I can guarantee that 20-somethings are looking for the same kind of encounter with a living God, someone who really cares enough about them to reveal Himself in ways that shake us to the core. Think about it - if you heard your friend Jimmy got healed of his liver condition when he went to church, wouldn't you want to stick around to see if it was for real?
The church as a family is the other sign that Jesus is alive and God is moving that I believe 20-somethings are searching high-and-wise for. It is a powerful contrast to the brokenness and isolation all around them. But a birth of this kind of family is going to take the movement of men and women within the church to go against the culture. When was the last time that you invited a stranger to dinner, let alone a college guy who looks like he hasn't showered in a week? It's uncomfortable, and in a terribly un-communal culture it can feel invasive, but this kind of face-to-face (not IM to IM) interaction is the kind of encounter that this generation craves.
I remember my Dad telling stories of the ministry he started (right around the time of the "Jesus Movement") at a well-known university when he was just 20-years old. They started with just a few people, and by the time he finished school, over 10% of this non-parochial campus was a part of their thriving ministry. One story in particular sticks out in my mind: there was a leader in the college ministry whose family didn't have enough money to keep him in college. This guy was just going to have to quit half-way through getting his degree. His fellow students didn't want to see him go, so they prayed and they fasted and they collected money from as many people as they could. By the end of this little campaign, they had barely enough to pay for a semester. However, within 24 hours, someone counted the money again and miraculously, they had enough for this guy to finish college!! Wouldn't you know, news spread about what God had done, and about the love of these students for each other, and more people came. More people became believers in Jesus Christ. These men and women were coming at the end of their own era of disillusionment and confusion. They were in the midst of the sexual revolution and the hippy movement. My dad says, "Everyone wanted to be a friek for something. There were the meth frieks, the marijuana frieks... I was the Jesus friek." All it took was the power of God and simple, self-sacrificial, loving community to draw these men and women towards what are the church communities that are now a part of our towns and cities.
So I believe that if churches are going to keep this up-coming generation of believers in the game, then those who lead churches need to evolve church into a place that represents plain and simple safety, love, and unconditional acceptance for 20-somethings who will probably not receive such things in their new world of independence. We've got to communicate that they are important to Jesus and an important part of the community, even if they've got no money to tithe or a regular time to help out with events. We've got to cry out to Jesus that he will break through the hearts of men and women who barely know what "commitment" looks like, let alone "regular attendance". And we've got to because the livelihood of the church depends on it.

Barna’s data makes the ministries at places like Mars Hill in Seattle and The Journey in St. Louis that burst with twenty-somethings all the more intriguing. And at least in these two cases, freedom to be as liberal as you like seems not to be the big draw.

Is there any follow-up data as to how many post-20somethings return to the church and when?

That said, I know many lose their faith in college because churches tend to stress blind faith and college makes them, in one way or another, examine their faith. If they're not up to the task, they'll end up with just enough half-answers to decide to walk away.

Mark,

I think part of the explanations for Mars Hill Seattle (I cant speak for the other church you mentioned) have to do with local phenomenon. There are things unique to Seattle that have set a church like that up to attract lots of people - as well as the personality-driven dynamic that Driscoll himself provides.

Wow,

I just got to my blog. I'm giving lectures in Rochester, MN, today and have a great time -- and now having a great time.

I'm especially grateful to the many here (names unmentioned) who are involved in this question and who both embrace the report and know beyond it that there are pressing issues that are not being addressed in that report. And the suggestions have been especially good.

Chris Folmsbee, that was a great outline for an approach to working with youth today. We can't get away from discipleship and challenge. I walk away from this knowing that our youth deserve to be challenged -- in all ways.

I am speaking for my daughter, 23. Grew up with us living the faith, she's had the example. We raised her to know how to hear what is being said behind words, whether a person or a tv show or a movie or a book. I think it's called thinking critically. And she can do so well. We didn't push the faith on her, let her have a say in it when she was old enough. Our church is a small house church, so she grew up under the extended family type of christianity. Somewhere in her late teens belief in God didn't make sense to her. And now she says that christianity must be about more than emotional solace, in order to believe in it.

I truly believe we have not even come close to pushing faith on her. She's always had the part in her that if pushed, swings the opposite way more. At the same time, she came out of the womb, eager to please us. So, to push faith on her will not accomplish anything. So we give her, her leeway. We raised her to respect the honoring of faith needing to be what one adopts, not just going along with.

My take is this is a time in all our lives, the 20's, where we come into our own identity. And for some raised in the church it is necessary to reject it in order to evaluate it and in the end, come out with something that is one's own, not just the adopting of parent's values. I also think as she bumps up against some of the hard realities of life, sufferings, the kind that cause her to figure out what makes life meaningful in the bottom line, she will start to try to figure out how christianity can be a foundation.

Our house church started 30 yrs ago with most of us in our 20's, and the ministry of our early years, how God used us, was these 20 something's who were about to give up on the church and God, and by coming to our church, they were giving it one last shot. Many went on to participate in traditional mainline churches. I don't think that was because they had poorly modeled godly living in their parents. I think it's cuz, raised in the church, they had to make a break to make their faith their own, not something adopted from their parents. (though, as we get older, we can see how much it does resemble our parents' faith.)

I like 99% of what you say there Mike, I think you're onto something. But I don't understand putting responsibility to what the youth group/church is doing with the teens. I've understood that what kids will take with them, is what us, their parents do.

Not to you, Mike, but this subject, I think it's important to remember 20 somethings disengaged from church have lots left to live to the story of what is ahead in their life. It isn't the end of the road. There's much left to come.

Thanks for the reminder DanB.

"One of the most damaging findings is that in the 75 - 80% of teenagers who call themselves religious, hardly any could come close to articulating their faith."

I wonder. I haven't seen the source, but it sounds suspiciously like the study comes from a model that faith is about certain theological intellectual constructs. If you don't accept that model, the finding is not particularly disturbing. If your model is one of relationship or one of being part of a continuing story, I wonder if the study would seem to have much relevance - except perhaps to confirm that the study's model is the wrong one.

As may be evident, I don't accept that model.

When I commented earlier, I alluded to the idea that the quantity of students in any youth group/HS ministry would likely drop when a curriculum that has the Kingdom of God as its over-arching canopy for all that is said and done. I'd like to amend a couple of other things I mentioned.

At some point, as BeckyR noticed, lots of life will happen for and to the 20-somethings: while not journeying on with Christ may not be the end of the story, what is true is that decisions made as youth are that: they are made by youth: not by youth ministers or lay leaders. So, lest I am perceived as finding fault exclusively with my colleagues, I repent! The youth in question have their freedom to exercise, just like we do.

Having said that, I was reminded of a time early in youth ministry when asking my supervisor if we could jettison the HS Sunday School class, and head down the street to where the homeless hung out or serve at the rescue mission. "[Ahem] Well, Mike, you don't know how this is supposed to work..."

My allegations about the forms of discipleship-"Christian Education"-mentoring-you name it- are, by and large, based upon the form of equipping that uses a Western-educational model of one person "talks" and the others "sit and listen." Any HS student with a few neurons sits every Sunday or Friday night, compares what Jesus did with his disciples to what that student is doing with their "teacher" and the rest of the students, and thinks: "This is not that."

I would guess that some of the best practices that are common among HS ministries in which the students continue on into adulthood as followers of Jesus have a dominant "hands and feet" element that is interpreted for the students in view of and in hearing of the Kingdom of God. This idea does not rely upon one person talking and the rest sitting there listening.

BeckyR,

Here and there you drop some pretty painful comments. I just want you to know that someone out here hears you. God bless you, my sister in Christ.

Like so many Baby Boomers ( of which I am one) it appears that the twenty-somethings also are acclimated to the Christian-consumer, winner-take-all landscape in which those vying for their participation allow felt-relevance concerns to shape there ministries. Perhaps in doing so we may capture folks’ attention temporarily but not keep them over time.

Could the Bible help? Is it not clear from 1 Corinthians and Ephesians that none of us can get to or continue to enjoy Jesus without something like a bridge-burning, covenant shaped commitment to each other? Are we teaching this? The very content of the fruit of the Spirit assumes that healthy Body-life will involve frequent occasion to forgive, need forgiveness, longsuffer, be patient—in short, put up with each other and be put up with. For this we were made. And this kind of love God has modeled in finding us and bringing us into the Church where we are to imitate and reflect that same pattern of love that made us His adopted children.

We will never know our God as he is as long as we behave like Christian consumers for products, services, or experiences that WE find relevant at the time. Maturity always involves yielding to God’s own diagnoses and prescription for what is amiss with us. And a big part of the prescription involves that bridge-burning commitment to a people, a congregation, withal their weaknesses and flaws. Now we see them not as obstacles to our pursuit of God but as the only path to Him and, indeed as a major dimension of our enjoyment of Him.

Please forgive the anonymous post, but for a lot of reasons . . . Sometimes I just laugh at Barna's methods of research. George is a cool guy, but man, does it seem like he gets a free pass on much of his methods. There were about a dozen times in "Revolution" where I stopped reading to comment aloud: "How does he get away with this stuff?" We need to be critical of all such surveys, but especially of survey's where there is not a lot of effort put into accumulating a truly random/representative sample group, nor is there a level of integrity (not moral, but scientific) given to framing questions and analyzing "data" in a manner that is above reproach.

These comments are spoken in love.

Brian #40 - thank you for the sympathy, but truthfully, my reaction is - "I do?, where?" Perhaps they sound painful, but most, I think, are things I've come to terms with. I think the majority of the way I think, is in real life examples. I'm not much into theoretical ideas. Thus, what I may write. But, if you could, what have I said that come across as painful things?

Wow...good stuff,and I came in a day late. Great comments throughout...but I would like to echo some and add some new.
First, the stats may be subject to questions...agreed...but real life practical experience shows me that they are not too far off.

When this came out, I started going to the local junior college, and asking about 40-50 people (an ongoing endeavor) their views of church...and why they are no longer attending. I got pretty similar hard data with good follow up questions.

I am not totally sure where the fix is, or even if we are right on to the problem, but here are a couple of observations from a 29-year-old that is working with these twenty-somethings. I would like to echo the comments on belonging...that is key to this age. Also, the charismatic comment of the reality of God moving touches on a yearning for this age group.

There are a couple of practical realities that are overlooked. Time management and priorities are often never learnned by this age. After a very regimented lifestyle in high school (likelyincluding extra curriculars), young people are thrown out on their own with no idea how to manage their time. Church often falls down the priority list, and the coming together as community is abandoned for something spur of the moment that pops up. This is one of several reasons, but Scott began to touch on this. This is a transition period in people's lives. I was having a conversation with a student yesterday (part of my investigation), and in our first time of talking about this stuff, she said that was her exact reasons for walking away from church. Inauthenticity, blind faith, lack of critical thinking, limited real experience with God, time mismanagement and so on sum up where they go or why they go, but I refuse to allow those excuses to be reasons.

We are working with people at a critical window of opportunity. Single, young people have greater potential to impact their community and the broader world than at any other time. If we can some how turn them on rather than allow for flaky twenty-somethings (who may reject church and God for a season) we can see huge kingdom work being done. There is an abundance of energy, creativty, time, freedom and passion to see Christ flow through these lives in powerful ways.

I'll speak from autobiographical experience. I grew up in church, and only got more fired up for serving God as I got older and investigated all things Christian. Rather than rejecting my childhood faith, I found walking with Jesus as mine along the way, and made it wholeheartedly my passion. I couldn't imagine seperating myself from God nor his church (which is the body of Christ)...no matter the form or tradition. We have great oppurtunity to see God do amazing things if we redefine our view of success and aim more towards discipleship as stated above. Let's live it out as Paul examples in I Cor. 11, and then press those that follow our example to remember the deposit of faith that was put into them by our efforts.

To conclude, I have been musing on some of my thoughts in this direction on a blog I just started...I hope it works for you as it is in its infancy...www.asktheblindpastor.com

Andy

Hi Andy, Scot and folks: Some points missing in the Barna report, how many teenagers were asked to repond, or given an opportunity to contribute, but chose not to? Why are there almost ten times the adult respondents, that figure being so large seems oddly off center? I could account for something like a half difference, but ten times? That's hard to get my litte pee head around...the use of explanatory terms that are general like "most" is irksome in a results interpretation; and I guess why that gets all over me is like many students I've done hundreds of reports saying those same things for fear of the fight that comes from more direct communication. Oh well...Scot was sure righteous in surfacing some light on this one, and it brought what light brings...heat.

While Barna's research reveals how twentysomethings' view of church is evolving, surveys like these sometimes incite exxagerated panic. My research regarding Generation Y's involvement in institutional churches has consistently turned up an important distinction: Regardless of their current attendance patterns, many twentysomethings crave spiritual journey and desire to internalize and live out the ideals of Christ. They may be--at this stage in life--choosing alternative forms of expression (outside the traditional church), but I caution us to remember that the church will not die in this generation or those coming. Jesus said, since its inception, that the forces of evil/gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church. Mt. 16:18

In noting this, I do, however, in my own speaking and writing caution twentysomethings who may bring unrealistic expectations and cultural impatience to the table. For more, check out my website: www.dearchurch.com

Scott M,
My own view of why this is the case is because we gravitate toward the empirical and observable -- spiritual disciplines -- and we look at love as too simplistic -- in spite of Jesus' words, Paul's words, John's words ... That is, love -- when understood -- is such a challenge it can't be met. It keeps us on the path as we chase and come to know it.

Scot,

I've mulled your comment now for some time since you wrote it and I must admit to being perplexed. First, I find it hard to believe that people actually think that love (any love, but especially the sort the NT describes) is simplistic. But even granted that, I have a hard time seeing how any significant American groups in the Church embrace spiritual disciplines instead. From my perspective it looks like neither (and I tend to find them complementary) are widely followed or even discussed, at least in the evangelical branch.

Even considering all the evidence I've personally encountered in that new light (and finding the perspective compelling), my mind still boggles that any Christian could view love as simple, simplistic, or 'just basic'. How did we get to that point?

Anyway, I've always taken your last sentence as a given. Loving God and loving others is so hard we require training disciplines to reshape and mold our lives and habits in new and (to us in our cracked or fallen state) unnatural channels in little, achievable baby steps. But the goal is always to better love God and others and a particular discipline has achieved its specific purpose when that discipline is no longer 'hard' for us to do.