In teaching this course on Women, Mary, and Jesus, I have been working my way through some crucial texts as the biblical and historical context for what we read about Mary and about women in the earliest churches. Here's a thought that keeps coming back to me: How biblical are our churches when it come to what women can do?
I ask this quite often as I'm studying: What did women do in the Bible? Is it not the case that what women did then is the paradigm for what women do now? (If we are guided by the Bible.)
1. Miriam was a prophet -- Exod 15:20-21 -- and she led Israel and the women in worship. She rebuked Moses for his relationship with the Cushite woman (Num 12:1-16). She failed to discern God's special vocation for Moses. She's seen by Micah as part of the original triumvirate (Mic 6:4).
2. Deborah was a prophet, a judge (political leader of Israel), and a "mother" of Israel -- maybe maternal leader, maybe biological mother (see Judg 4:4; 5:7). She sings a prophetic song of interpreting Israel's history and God's ways in the world (Judg 5). (Did she write Psalm 68?)
African Bible Commentary: "Her achievement should put an end to debates about whether women can provide leadership" (300). Leadership, the writer says, is God's "gift and gender-neutral".
3. Huldah, surrounded as she was by Jeremiah, Zephaniah, Nahum, and Habbakuk, is the one to whom Josiah sends Hilkiah and Shaphan to discern the ways of God when he hears the words of the book of the covenant read. She indirectly authorizes the text as God's word by affirming it, and she prophesies the grace of God for Josiah himself.
Women lead the nation, women prophesy, women lead in worship, women rebuke other leaders, women interpret events in history to discern the redemptive will of God, and women confirm texts as Scripture/Word of God. Women make mistakes by critiquing God's appointed leaders -- Miriam sure did -- but they are not stopped in their ministry. If God gifts, God's people should recognize the gifts.
There's more in the Bible; this is enough. Do texts like these perhaps put limits on "restrictive" texts in the NT (1 Cor 14; 1 Tim 2), are they simply exceptions, or are they OT stuff that became "old-fashioned" by the time of the NT?
I sometimes hear how the restrictive-texts folks are just doing what the Bible says but I wonder who is really doing what the Bible says. I'd say that a biblical church will empower gifted women to prophesy, lead, rebuke,and interpret history. They'll do more, but at least these things they'll permit.
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Marcia,
It seems there's a presumption that you have not read the previous responses. Absent your provision of evidence, I believe that presumption adds nothing to the conversation.
I believe your statements are just as worthy of consideration as those of anyone else on this blog.
As far as not spending more time on Women leaders in the Old Testament, I believe you bring up a valid point, that Paul refers back to the original father and mother of the human race.
In fact it could be that this provides the answer some are looking for. In Eve we have the first Egalitarian female leader, unless you don't consider her as taking part in the original earthly dominion mandate from God. But she sure acted the part by being unafraid to engage the serpent in conversation. We've been suffering the results of that conversation ever since! Not exactly the "perfect" example some are looking for, I am sure.
The sad part is that Adam watched the whole show, then joined his wife. God judges him for "hearkening to the voice of your wife."
Interesting..........the wife leads, the man follows......and we're cursed!
Great point Marcia!
I'm rather confused over the apparent facetiousness displayed here, but I'll move past that.
I have read the original blog post, for anyone asking, and I don't consider examples from the Old Testament a good enough reason to justify pastoral female leadership.
Yes, the Old Testament is an integral part of the Bible.. The Bible would not be complete without it, but, we do not live by the law of the Old Testament, and those women of example, while certainy honourable and amazing role models, do not fit the role of pastors/reverends.
#235 - I'm pretty sure that translating the texts back to ancient Greek and understanding the root words is what reading it in context means.
A good example of an argument that egalitarians use is 2nd John vs. 1. I had this verse thrown in my face by somebody who insisted that it was an accurate Scripture regarding the right of women to pastor. The verse reads "To the elect lady and her children..." People then assume that "elect lady" is referring to a women who is in leadership, and the "children" refer to the body of a church. In reality, the Greek word is "eklektos" which means "chosen believer". It has literally nothing to do with being elected into leadership of any sort.
The point I am trying to get across here, is that the Bible wasn't written willy-nilly with words just pulled out of hats or something utterly ridiculous. All Scripture is God-breathed and infallible.
#237 - Thank you.
Marcia, I was not at all being facetious. Both 1Tim 2 (I think your primary ref?) and 1Cor 14 have been discussed and especially in the context of a redemptive trend hermeneutic.
While most of those of us who do not know Greek in fact end up figuring out the literal meaning of texts by "translating the texts back to ancient Greek and understanding the root words" that is not really what I had in mind when referring to contexts.
So, if whatever I've said has already been discussed, I shouldn't think about discussing it again? Ok.
Marcia, Men and women were given shared rulership prior to the fall, your comment.. "the wife leads, the man follows and we are cursed" and so now the woman must be eternally subordinate to man. If what you say is true, then Christ's atonement has had no benefit for women and by eternal subordination, we yet through our works are atoning for our sin. Further your comments assume that the Holy Spirit is unable to lead women into truth or that the Holy Spirit has not gifted women to lead. I find not mention in all of scripture that classifys spiritual gifts according to gender. Some of the proof texting and reading into scripture has serious implications to our dearly held theological views. We must be careful.
I was not going to comment again on this site but I couldn't let this one go. I should never want a woman to fear that Christ work has not been effectual for her. Faith
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