Any time someone brings up the petitions in the Lord's prayer that concern God's kingdom coming and God's will being realized faces the inevitable: What does the Lord's Prayer say about political power and global issues? In chp 4 of Telford Work's book, Ain't Too Proud to Beg
Our next book will be Edith Humphrey, Ecstasy and Intimacy
I believe it is impossible to read the Bible and to be quiet about politics. How can we read the prophets or Jesus and not think of political powers? The issue is how we engage the powers. The problem is how to avoid scuffles in doing so. Is there a way forward? What are your suggestions for engaging politics in the context of our communities of faith?
Well, back to Telford's book. He uses Walter Russell Mead's book called Special Providence to expound how the church has become complicit as businesslike Hamiltonians, missionary Wilsonians, protective Jeffersonians, and tribal Jacksonians. It would be too much to find a way to reduce all of this to manageable little chunks -- his discussions are lengthy -- but he sums them up in "self-" terms on p 102: "Yet each of these political visions centers on the self -- self-advancement, self-realization, self-protection, and self-assertion."
Thus, "Constantine is not the villain; we are" (103).
So, what is the alternative to complicity and villainy? To do God's will. What is God's will?
Here Telford has a theory I've not seen but which, the more I read it, got me to thinking. Here it is: "The will of the Father is none other than the Holy Spirit" (103). "When we pray the Father's will to be realized on earth, God's answer is nothing less than the third person of the Trinity" (106).
He gives some nice textual connections between the Father's will and what the Spirit does. E.g., the Spirit is the the finger of God, the Father's will to deliver and author the Torah (Exod 8:19; 31:18 and Luke 11:20).
The interplay of wills in the Trinity is the model of how we do God's will: I like this -- "in which the heavenly theocracy and earthly autocracies pursue their ultimate ends, expose their true natures, and by grace reconcile" (108).
The "Spirit" as the will of the Father -- now that's an idea worth pondering this day with friends.
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Kyle #10, thank you for that exposition on Edwards. It was very helpful to me.
Two thoughts come to mind, no three. The first is that I can hardly wait to read this chapter tonight after a church group meets at our house. Hopefully this won't lead me to shoo them out so I can hunker down with this book ;-)
Second, “Constantine is not the villain; we are”. This reminds me of a powerful experience I had while reading Tozer's "Pursuit of Man". Tozer on the *self sins* was an epiphany for me, to realize that all of my sin was really about *self*. Whenever *self* creeps in, regardless of the disguise, sin is its ever-present dark shadow.
Third, a personal quest. Being raised in the Eastern Christian church, I continually yearn to better understand the theology behind the Eastern approach to the Trinity and the Spirit. I know that this was very powerful for me in my early years, and continues experientially to this day, but I don't know how to begin to wrap words around that experience. I do know it has nothing to do with the usual experience of the Spirit that is discussed/experienced in Protestant churches today - at least those in my limited circle - that largely seems limited to the Nicky Gumbel-Alpha approach to speaking in tongues etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that my story has been a very different one, but I can't describe it very well. Arghhh. Whenever I can plow through a few sentences of Gregory of Nyssa, I encounter *A-ha* moments. But being one of the amateurs who are so graciously indulged on this site, my understanding of dear old Gregory is somewhat limited. So far the book by Rupnik came the closest, and I think that Work's may be headed that direction as well. I look forward to tonight!
thanks for the link to Newbigin's book... Amazon.com loves me!
This is an interesting thread. One comment I would make is that the cnocept of the Kingdom of God is a very dangerous concept. I believe it is central and will be a key issue to wrestle with in the near future, but there are multiple understandings of what exactly is the kingdom of God and how it should function.
There is a Conservative Religious Right version of the kingdom of God, there is a liberal protestant concept of the kingdom of God, there is a liberationist understanding of the kingdom of God (See Gutierrez). The Reconstructionists would see the kingdom of God being implemented as a theocratic imposition of Old Testament law ... in my mind, not all that different that the Al Queda vision of Hakayaat allah and their desire to impose Sharia law. The Marxists even had their vision of the utopian kingdom (without God) that was the worker’s paradise.
We need to be really careful to distinguish what kind of kingdom Jesus had in mind. I personally like Brian McClaren’s “experiential, interactive relationship with the Holy Spirit” but as Scot pointed out, there are probably some component that McClaren’s definition fails to capture.
sounds like this might be a great book to read...I'll pick it up. I have been observing the plight of immigrants in this country without documents.
A family in our town was invaded by the ICE and the mother, with child clinging to her was torn away and taken into custody for merely not having documents. (a civil offense) A family in our church also lost their daughter and grandson to Mexico when her husband (who came when he was 2) was taken into custody by the ICE and deported. (several in our church witnessed the dehumanizing cruelty of the judge who heard the case) Their lives have been turned upside down and their families have been torn apart.
Since 911, the tension has risen and I wonder what it will visibly look like to deport 12 million people. And what will be the effect on families left behind? (not to mention our relationship with Mexico) Prior to 911 there was a tacit welcome for any who needed work. Then children were born, families, settled and over the years lives were built. The immigration system we have in place was designed for another era and is not functioning with justice in mind. Yet legislation offered is being driven by fear and self interest not justice.
I am looking for biblical answers because in the post 911 fear, I see something happening in the hearts of people who say they are Christians that is unkind and unjust and ill-informed by fear of the other.
I am concerned that we don't have a solid biblical paradigm to deal ethically with this current national delimma. The bible says so much about welcoming strangers as if they were our own people... Christ himself was a refugee, many undocumented people are believers and have shared the eucharist and same waters of baptism, as christians how can we reconcile all of those texts with the current ICE behavior and our national climate toward undocumented immigrants.
There is a serious need to comprehensively examine this issue from a biblical and theological lense. It is bigger than what we see on the surface. It is bigger than making and breaking laws...there is something going on in the heart that troubles me deeply.
I agree.
#20 and 21. Suggest that you try to get this book, if only to read this chapter - Work's analysis of Jeffersonian, Jacksonian, Wilsonian, and Hamiltonian brands of Americanism and their parallels in the American Christian church(es) touch on your points in ways that seem far too complex to try to elucidate here, at least for me. Maybe someone else could take that on??? I only want to say that in Jacksonian Christianity, the tribe takes precedence over Christ. I see this happening in how we treat the stranger among us, hunkering down and raising the boundaries around our tribe.
And there was special pleasure for me, in the discussion on Trinitarian theology, to see a footnote for the beloved Gregory of Nyssa. Scot, if you're ever pondering something from the more classic realm to discuss here, I for one would certainly benefit from anything by or about St. Gregory.
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