Let me give a big sociological sketch first. Studies reveal that folks, in a general sense, "convert" to the Christian faith in one of three basic ways:
through a church process of being nurtured into the faith,
through another church process of ongoing exposure to the sacraments, or
through a personal decision emphasis.
My own contention is that denominations and local churches tend to favor -- putting it mildly -- one of these processes. The result is that nurturance converts can be a bit nervous with sacramental converts and personal decision converts can break out in a rash when they encounter either. Studying how conversions take place is discussed in two of my own studies: Turning to Jesus and Finding Faith, Losing Faith.
Tell me: Does your church tend to favor one of these models? Do you think conversion is a process? Or do you think there is a distinct, conscious moment of conversion for anyone who is converted?
Our studies conclude that everyone's conversion -- whether through nurturance, sacraments or personal decision -- involve six dimensions: converts emerge out of a (1) context because of (2) a crisis of some sort. This crisis prompts (3) a quest to solve the crisis. The quest leads to (4) an encounter and interaction with someone or something that advocates conversion. That encounter prompts (5) a commitment and (6) consequences. Because it is easy to talk theory but theory must be confirmed by experienced reality, we tell stories for each of these dimensions in our study Turning to Jesus.
One of the more interesting features of learning to see all conversions in these six dimensions was the discovery that patterns emerge when you begin to explore different experiences. Thus, we discovered that Jewish conversions to the Christian faith have a pattern, that evangelicals who convert to Roman Catholicism have a distinct pattern as does the pattern of Roman Catholics who become evangelical (this study was written by Hauna Ondrey in Finding Faith, Losing Faith). What surprised me the most was that stories of those who abandon the Christian faith also settle into a recognizable pattern.
The upshot of this is clear: conversion is a process. Perhaps my biggest hope for these two books is that churches will become sensitive to the various contexts of various peoples so that each person is given the opportunity to experience the grace of God in various ways.
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I've often wondered if we Protestants, who tend to be conversion oriented except for those running in the most liberal circles, aren't unduly influenced by the Englightenment and its grandchild, College Education in America. We *revere* cognition in this country and we all but lust to understand everything with our minds.
We've come up with this thesis that you get a degree in your early twenties and then you are "educated." It swarms over into the church as though you convert and then you are "there." Most of my *real* education took place after my degree, and most of my real spirituality took place after conversion. I'm just pointing this out as I often notice how many Bible classes there are for new or young Christians and how I've never seen one, "For those who have been Christians for thirty years or more." If I proposed to teach one, my church might scratch a hole in the side of its head (not due to moi--I teach college and also have a Masters now--but due to the concept).
I get bored sometimes.
It all depend on what one is being converted to. When being converted to religion, a national interest or other man made unions, it require one to become interested in what they have to offer. That usually happens over time.
If one is converted to god, god being within ourselves (Luke 17:21), it requires one to be willing to hear from god independent of other man. It requires one to be able to complete all of their reapings and sowings in the lifetime they are living before being qualified for the "spiritual" conversion.
In my situation it was almost instantaneous. I observed how I was reaping something I had sowed and felt I needed continue in it and find the answers to sowing and reapings. That led me to the organized church but only for 3 years.
In less than a year I became a preacher [being raised a strict Baptist it could be expected] but didn't preach Baptist doctrine. Usually I preached from scriptures I seldom or never heard preached which were more to me than to the people in attendance. Thusly, I felt a hypocrite telling others to "follow Jesus" and I had not taken on that way of life, so I felt the need to separate from the church after 3 years and follow the example of Yeshua (Jesus).
In wondering north America, from Canada to Belize, I observed the other animals which led me to disbelieve in a god except within myself. It caused me to realize every man is to obtain the "dominion powers" Yeshua demonstrated so I have sought how I am to obtain them. In doing so, I realized there are 7 steps to complete the process from "new conception" to "new adulthood".
The steps are...
1) conception -- recognizing the law of karma at work in one's own life,
2) gestating -- studying in some form of discipline [religion, science, math, and others],
3) travail -- recognize the need to go beyond the particular discipline,
4) birth/babyhood -- separating from job preparing to travel,
5) childhood -- wondering the earth while studying under many disciplines,
6) adolescence -- began to put the learning into a vision where one is able to explain it, and
7) adulthood -- when one has unified all of the attributes seen in man into their own parent self which qualifies them to obtain "dominion powers".
If I am understanding the question right, your asking when is a person saved? Why not just go to the source of wisdom about this question? The Bible states that "if you will confess with your moutn the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou wilt be saved".The prosess of salvation is an instant thing. The process of christian growth is an everlearning,ongoing way of life. IT REQUIRES STUDY ,PRAYER, AND A WILLINGNOUS TO SEEK GOD IN HIS HOLY WORD. Finally, lest we ever forget, God's word states that there is only one way to Him. and that is through Jesus Christ. The Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Conversion to anything, particularly to Christianity, requires a change of heart and mind. With Christianity, it requires a person to turn one's life over to Him and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Like everything that is important in life, it is a choice, a choice that is eternal and given by grace...
This is amazing -- I just had a long "car conversation" with my grown daughter about this very thing! As a pastor, I have the doctrinal answers and could give them to her -- and I told her that. But I knew that was not what she was looking for.I also told her that my journey to belief in Jesus Christ, love of him, following him and finally claiming him Lord came much later. I told her that even now I had moments when my love of him, my desire to follow him, and my awareness that he is divine, vacillate in a lot of directions. I affirmed that while I assented to his lordship a long time ago,that it has been an on-going "yes" to him (and even sometimes a "I can't do that that.") She realizes the benefits of "church" -- the community connection, "being in a place where you can feel loved" no matter who you are (her perspective, but she also added, if it's the right church.
She affirmed to me that she can easily understand a Creator God -- Father. And I suggested that perhaps the Holy Spirit might be easy for her since she is creative and understands the creative spirit that moves us to new ideas and revoluationary thoughts. Yes, she understood this. But Jesus was harder. How, she asked, did I come to know him? From the stories of the Bible, I told her. I came to know him, wanted to follow him, felt his love, and proclaimed that desire because my heart was sure that this was what I needed to do. It's a heart thing, I told her and no amount of intellectual gymnastics can make that happen. (But it's also a necessary step.)
Then, she said, it's like me reading abook and becoming involved with the characters there? No,I said, much more than that.
So, it seems that I can't really put this "convesation" thing into words, after all describing God is describing the ineffable except for Jesus. We were silent for a while as we drove through the city traffic.
Finally I spoke, you have to take your own journey. And I smiled to myself, because clearly she was on it. Like the love you feel for a baby -- it grows slowly, surprisngly and one day you wake up and realize that you are passionately in love with this new-born thing. I think that's what Christmas provides us.
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