Jesus Creed

Jesus Creed

A Letter about the End Times

posted by Scot McKnight | 3:03pm Tuesday February 17, 2009

What do you think?

Dear Scot,

I wondered if you might do some blog posts addressing this (or maybe you have some past posts addressing this that I’ve missed and you could link me to).

Growing up in a typical conservative evangelical home and church in the 80′s, I was exposed to pretty standard dispensational teaching – Thief in the Night movies, novels about the rapture and tribulation, fearing I’d be ‘left behind’, reading Revelation into current world events, etc…  Those teaching were profoundly anxiety-causing and harmful to my spiritual development, and as an older teen I left them behind b/c I had seen nothing but negative effects such as fear.

I now find myself wanting to shy away from the topic of Christ’s return altogether and pretend it doesn’t exist – which I know is an overreaction and isn’t accurate to teaching of Christianity either.

I have some acquaintances online who are getting really into the ‘End is Coming in the next 7 years’ complete with specific dates/predictions, and it bothers me immensely each time I see posts about it, bc it brings up so many emotions from my childhood and how hearing those things affected me.  It makes me want to go to the extreme of saying “Christ is not returning in 7 years – you’re just fear mongering.”  

I’m looking for balance on this issue that is solidly biblical – and I can’t imagine I’m the only one who finds herself in that position.  I was thinking about this issue and it seemed to me that the concept of a Third Way might have some helpful things to offer.  

Thanks for reading this.



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James Chambers

posted February 17, 2009 at 4:00 pm


I have found a couple of books helpful in understanding the end times. Millard J. Erickson has a good book that gives an overview of different positions regarding the millenium and tribulation. It is called “A Basic Guide to Eschatology.” This may not be exactly what you are looking for but it is helpful. The best commentary I have read that is easy to understand on Revelation is found in the Baker Exegetical Commentary Series by Grant Osborne. Also N.T. Wright also offers a good book “Surprised by Hope.”
These books have helped me get beyond the Left Behind series type of theology on the end times to understand what is the biblical way of thinking about Christ’s return. I hope this helps.



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dopderbeck

posted February 17, 2009 at 4:26 pm


I want to second James’s (#1) comments about “Surprised by Hope.” Another good one is Richard J. Mouw, “When the Kings Come Marching In.” I grew up in the same kind of environment as the letter writer and have found perspectives like Wright’s and Mouw’s very helpful. If you want to dive into a technical commentary that isn’t dispensational, try Greg Beale’s commentary on Revelation. Also, a book Scot blogged on, “Left Behind or Left Befuddled.”
And might I suggest this: perhaps this isn’t the kind of thing you’ll be able to have productive discussions about with your online friends. They probably aren’t ready to come around to the new perspective you’re developing, and the issue is still too sensitive for you to discuss without getting upset. In my experience, over time, you’ll be able to joke and tease with true friends who hold different views about this without undue upset or hurt feelings, but for now, pick one of these good books and enjoy imagining the beautiful healing, restoration, and renewal that will be the final result of the fulfillment of the Kingdom of God.



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Karen

posted February 17, 2009 at 4:42 pm


Hi, There was a time in my Christian life that I also was afraid of the return of Christ.
But not now, when I reached the place in my spiritual life, that I wanted to serve Jesus, I placed my life (trust,faith and belief), in the Love of Jesus Christ our Lord. The Man that was hung on the cross so every person could have salvation; Jesus showed how great his love was and is, by taking our sins upon his shoulders.
I found a web site that may help you, ‘The Midnight Cry’. Look up and forward for the coming of our Savior, I want the mansion that Jesus has prerared for me.



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Charles

posted February 17, 2009 at 4:55 pm


One problem here is that “balance” and “biblical” is often in the eye of the beholder. For some non-dispensationalists, “balance” includes entertaining any eschatological view that is not pre-tribulational and pre-millennial. For some dispensationalists, “balance” might mean entertaining differences within the view but excluding other eschatological views. There is a similar problem with the term “biblical.” I would suggest that all eschatological views are biblical in that they develop most or at least part of their views on texts in the Bible. It is not if the biblical text is used, but how these texts are interpreted both exegetically and theologically. And i would add that all eschatological views are composed at least in part by certain theological presuppositions.
Concerning the writer of the letter I would suggest that emotional responses are probably not the best way to come to theological conclusions. The fact of the matter is that “fear” is not entirely bad, and is an appropriate response to some doctrines such as eternal punishment.



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Dana Ames

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:11 pm


“Following Jesus” by NT Wright is a book I return to again and again. It’s a collection of some of his sermons given 10-15 years ago, so geared to the “average” listener. Some of the sermons have to do with eschatology. All of them together paint a picture of hope and life that is every bit as bright as “Surprised by Hope”, and would probably make a good companion book to it. I think it could help.
When I learned that the Hebrew idea of “judgment” has to do with making things right, especially relationally, that put the final nail in my fear of Jesus’ return. I believe God is good and merciful, and mercy is even bigger than judgment. James 2.13b.
Dana



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Mark Baker-Wright

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:12 pm


I’ve seen this concern in regard to quite a few matters of doctrine, not just eschatology. Having grown up or been otherwise formed in a tradition that was oppressive, a person comes to want to avoid all matters (including doctrines) that are too closely related to that tradition. Yet, if they haven’t abandoned faith entirely (all too many do), they find that they still need a (new?) Biblical framework for understanding important issues, and are hard-pressed to do so in a way that doesn’t reignite all those oppressive issues that caused them to leave that particular tradition in the first place.
I’m not sure an easy answer exists to this problem, but it must at least be recognized that the problem is a real and widespread one.



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Luke

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:22 pm


A good book that exposed me to my faulty “Left-Behind” past was by Barbara Rossing called “The Rapture Exposed.” She is unfair in some places, acting as if ridding the world of dispensationalism is the answer to the world’s problems, but she does a good job of exposing certain “Left Behind”-type myths.
One thing I have noticed is major caricaturing of “dispensationalists” with many writers about eschatology. If I may add, not all dispensationalists are whacked out eschatological pro-Israel psychos like you see espoused in the Left Behind novels. I don’t even like using the term to refer to that branch of eschatology, but instead prefer either “Left-Behind Eschatology” or something like “Old School Dispensationalism.” The reason it’s “Old School” is because hardly anybody under 70 years of age believes in it anymore in the academy. It may have been popular at institutions like Dallas Seminary and Moody Bible Institute up until the 1980-90s, but that is hardly the case today.
Might I also suggest Blomberg’s new book about premillenial eschatology. It is still pre-mill without all the Left Behind crap, so it may be up your alley.



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Erika Haub

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:28 pm


For a great book on Revelation, I would recommend Theology of the Book of Revelation by Richard Bauckham. This is one of my favorite book; I have come back to it again and again. Also, if you can find Darrell Johnson’s preaching series he did on Revelation back when when he was the pastor at Glendale Presbyterian Church online (it used to be), that is a wonderful resource to listen to/read.



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John A. De Jesus Estias

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:39 pm


Consensus is not designed into eschatology, there are too many reasons for not agreeing, some of them based on the identities of major denominations and what they stand for.
Its part of the evolution of each major denomination, they first have a doctrinal or historical justification, then they work towards their definition of the believer, sooner or later they get around to the end-times.
You won’t ever see a denomination add odds with its own identity, especially when it comes to its eschatology.
Its just not built into the system.



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Eric

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:40 pm


N.T. Wright’s Suprised by Hope is something I would strongly recommend on these issues as well (in addition to all of those above who recommend it).



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John A. De Jesus Estias

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:44 pm


…denomination at odds…
Vrooooommm, right over my head.



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Joey

posted February 17, 2009 at 5:47 pm


I would recommend Darrell Johnson’s (Regent) Discipleship on the Edge. It is one of the most solid books on Revelation I have come across. He is a sharp scholar.



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Mason

posted February 17, 2009 at 6:06 pm


I can relate far too well with this letter.
I too was inundated with the pop-dispensational Left Behind type of eschatology, and knew many, both peers and church leaders, who took it to the extreme and espoused what are (in my eyes) dramatically unbiblical ideas which are harmful to how we read the Bible, understand God, see our mission as the Church, and treat the world around us.
When I eventually came to the place of rejecting that school of theology and their eschatology, I actually was called a heretic by my pastor who I was very close to, kind of as a joke, but you could tell it was a joke to convey his actual feelings.
As far as dealing with it, I think it gets easier as time goes on, and the Evangelical church seems to be waking up a bit on this issue. But it’s tough and gets touchy when you bring it up. If you do it in a caring reasoned way though it might make your friends rethink it as you have.
Just a side note, I would wholeheartedly recommend “Surprised by Hope” along with many others here, it really gives a biblical and hopeful understanding of the role of the 2nd Advent, resurrection, and new creation in our faith.



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Peggy

posted February 17, 2009 at 6:48 pm


Scot,
So, I’m waiting for you to weigh in and to hear some partial preterist thoughts….
I heard a wonderful talk in chapel back in college about Revelation being the revelation of Jesus Christ rather than a way to calculate when the end will come. It was very refreshing.
I’ve also studied Revelation as a covenant document — which will give you a completely different result. You know me…I’m a covenant abbess!



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Justin Mooney

posted February 17, 2009 at 6:53 pm


In addition to N.T. Wright’s “Surprised By Hope” I would also suggest a little book by David Lawrence called “Heaven: It’s Not the End of the World.” It a good place to get your feet wet before diving into Wright’s works on New Creation.



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E.G.

posted February 17, 2009 at 7:02 pm


I would recommend a careful study of Rev. 21 and 22. Much of that book is interesting, but tough, slogging. But the final two chapters are not. They are the best expression of our hope in Christ’s return and His renewal of creation.
21:3 is particularly apt, and full of our true hope:
“And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”"
I, too, was brought up in the tradition that you describe. And, instead of being filled with hope for Christ’s return – instead of groaning with creation, under the curse, in anticipation – I was scared to death that I’d either have my hand or head branded and burn in hell, or I’d have my head chopped off. The entire message of hope was completely lost, because my teachers preferred rampant, and generally unfounded, speculation and sensationalism.
But, do you know what is actually sensational? The fact that Christ WILL return, and He WILL renew His creation – you, me, dragonflies, naked mole rats, granite, and shale. And, more than that, He will live with us and us with Him.
So, study those two chapters with hope and joy. Find some *good* commentaries to help you along. I, personally, have shifted to an amillennial point of view, and you may want to explore that. But, whatever your resting point on this journey, be sure to keep hope and joy in mind. Because, some day, like the supposedly Christmas song says, “He (will come) to make his blessings flow, far as the curse is found.”



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John Frye

posted February 17, 2009 at 7:49 pm


I wished these comic book dispensationalists would wise up and see what their gnostic heresies do to people as evidenced in the letter writer’s confession. In their imaginary schemes of end times they actually rob people of true biblical hope. It’s sick.



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Mike Beidler

posted February 17, 2009 at 7:50 pm


You want to read a book on eschatology that will really blow your mind and leave you never reading the New Testament the same way again?
James Stuart Russell’s The Parousia: A Critical Inquiry into the New Testament Doctrine of Our Lord’s Second Coming.
A full .pdf version can be found here
If the meta-tags don’t work on this forum …
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1878_russell_parousia_1st-ed.pdf



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Wayne Park

posted February 17, 2009 at 8:53 pm


There are “third ways” present in more and more institutions these days and I’ve been hearing fewer and fewer will teach the dispensationalist persepctive nowadays.
Over here @ the left coast at Regent College (which is not really that “left”) eschatology is framed less in the shape of prophetic literalism and more along the lines of covenant fulfillment, i.e. the church is the fulfillment of many of the Old Covenant themes like Land, Promise, Blessing, etc.
It’s a much saner perspective and faithful (I believe) to the Spirit of the Letter. So, yes, there is a third way, and it is growing increasingly accepted, while the “thief in the night” genre is falling by the wayside.



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Derek

posted February 17, 2009 at 9:11 pm


Erica #8 and Joey in #12 are referring to the same Darrell Johnson. “Discipleship on the Edge” is Darrell’s book based on the sermon series he preached at Glendale Presbyterian Church in 1999. And yes they are both worth reading, hearing!



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Ron

posted February 17, 2009 at 9:24 pm


If you would like to experience a novel perspective on these issues I would recommend “The Book,” by Alan Watts.



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Jim

posted February 17, 2009 at 9:55 pm


“No man knows the day or hour” However, as a believer I find the prospect of the rapture, or living through the first half or the whole Tribulation fills me with a sense of excitement, if for no other reason than to be a part of God’s divine plan in the last days. Be assured, the times will be hard, but compared to an eternity of peace in Christ, what’s a little discomfort?



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Daniel

posted February 17, 2009 at 10:21 pm


Try Andrew Perriman’s “The Coming of the Son of Man”–that’s been the most helpful for me. Of course, NT Wright has been great too.
Narrative realism is where it’s at.
Try living as if Jesus’ so-called ‘return’ is ‘imminent’ every day of your life–you’ll go crazy.
Either Jesus said what he meant when he said “This generation shall not pass away” (cf. Mark 13), or his teaching is useless. If you take his teaching seriously, then either he was wrong, or ‘the coming of the son of man’ isn’t what conservative evangelicals say it is.
Follow the evidence says I.
Peace,
-Daniel-



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Albert the Abstainer

posted February 17, 2009 at 11:19 pm


Firstly, I am not a Christian.
That said: Is it not more important to live in a way which emulates the example of Jesus than to worry about eschatology? Show love to your neighbour, and make it real. Get out there and do the hard work of feeding the sheep. Live by example and don’t worry about the end of days. And best of all, do so with the knowledge that personal death can come out of the blue. It gives impetus to do what is important today and not sweat the inconsequential. If you live each day this way, you won’t have many recriminations; and do it with awareness of the value of each person you meet, even and often especially those you feel uncomfortable with.



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Glenn

posted February 17, 2009 at 11:20 pm


Wayne, I’ve always questioned views that see the church as the fulfillment of many of the Old Covenant themes like Land, Promise, Blessing, etc. As someone with a Jewish background I’m always left wondering if there is any application left for Israel.



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Bill

posted February 18, 2009 at 2:32 am


Glenn, I believe from a Christian Orthodox perspective what is left for Israel is Jesus the Christ within the life of the church, the full fulfillment of the Covenant, without loss of Jewish heritage, culture and traditions. From a fundamentalist evangelical perspective I believe the view is an enriched and materialistic view where Israel receives riches, power, and punishment, followed by acceptance of Christ which leads to the nation of Israel exerting its cultural, religious and political prominence among all nations.
For a Jewish person to accept the Orthodox view he would have have to find his eternal Sabbath in the person of Christ, resting in the peace provided by Christ’s abundant graces. The Christian view is that Jewish identity is not lost in belief of Jesus rather a fulfillment of all that a Jewish believer hopes for.
What is left for Israel is Christ. What is lost is all that holds us back from being righteous.



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Rob Grayson

posted February 18, 2009 at 5:29 am


Hi Scott,
This post is very apposite for me.
Having been a Christian since the age of 14 (I’m now 38), and having spent most of that time in the UK Pentecostal church, it’s only in the last two or three years that I’ve begun to question the end times theology that I have always unquestioningly accepted as biblical fact ? a pre-tribulation rapture, most of the torments in Revelation being yet to happen, we spend eternity in heaven, etc.
I’ve recently read Tom Wright’s “Surprised by Hope” ? a terrific book that manages to be both scholarly and accessible ? and to be honest, what I felt most was a sense of relief. I was finally finding an authoritative sense of permission to believe what I had begun to suspect for some time (and, more to the point, to stop believing some of what I have come to think of as the baloney that is routinely peddled). I’m currently reading Hank Hanegraaff’s “The Apocalypse Code”, which although very different in style and emphasis from NT Wright, appears to be quite balanced and biblically grounded.
My main point, though, is the predicament this leaves me in. My wife’s background is pretty much the same as mine, except that she also devoured the whole “Left Behind” series (I didn’t, not so much for reasons of theology but simply because I read the first one or two and found them to be appallingly badly written). On the one or two occasions I’ve tried to gently suggest that perhaps La Haye et al’s interpretation is not the only one, I’ve been surprised by the vehemence of her reaction. She’s not normally like this, but this is an area where challenging long-held beliefs seems to trigger a profoundly emotional reaction, accompanied by a total unwillingness to engage in any kind of discussion about what the Bible actually says. So I’m steering clear of the subject, at least for now.
I find myself in the same predicament with regard to my church (a small evangelical fellowship in Northern France where I’m part of the leadership). Our pastor has invited a Canadian end times teacher to come in April, and while I haven’t yet checked out what his line is, I’m pretty sure it’ll be the standard one (I haven’t yet come across an “end times teacher” who doesn’t follow the dispensationalist line). I don’t want to create a stir or a conflict (or be labelled a heretic, which might well be the case), but at the same time it’s difficult to be supportive of this kind of teaching when you feel your eyes have finally been opened to what you believe to be the truth.
Finally, the broader predicament is in line with John Frye’s comment (#17) ? even if we keep quiet on the specific subject of the end times, what we believe about eschatology, life after death etc. has a profound impact on our whole understanding of the gospel, and hence on what it means to live as a follower of Jesus. That’s whay, for me, it’s such a hard thing to just keep quiet about.
Sorry for the length of this post, but as I said, this is something of a hot issue for me at the moment.
Peace,
Rob



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Glenn

posted February 18, 2009 at 7:52 am


Rob, I find that for many there is deep emotional connection wed to the pre-trib dispensational theology they grew up with. Whether it developed during childhood at summer camps, youth events, a special mentor type relationship, etc. I don’t know. But I’ve talked to several bible teachers who broke away from their dispensational roots and have heard their stories. It seemed like such a tramatic and emotional event for them to change views, unlike any other change of theology I’ve encountered.



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Kay

posted February 18, 2009 at 10:24 am


I’ll echo the recommendation of Surprised By Hope. :)



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William Cheriegate

posted February 18, 2009 at 11:17 am


You don’t have to go much further than Scot McKnight’s own words from many years ago, probably the best short story on Eschatology and all its many flavors, with, in my opinion, a beautiful conclusion:
Read it here: http://www.presence.tv/cms/f-tsunami.shtml



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Jon

posted February 18, 2009 at 12:55 pm


Dear reader, I hope you are able to navigate the deep waters of eschatology with humility and truth. You ask Scot for a third way approach to eschatology. While I appreciate the Third Way language, it is important to note that premillenial dispensationalism is not a first or second way. In fact, it is basically the youngest of any branch of eschatology. Find hope in the fact that by denying the left behind scenario you are actually uniting with the vast majority of Christian tradition over the past two thousand years. While there are many different ways to read about the end times, I find dispensationalism to be the least biblical personally.
I too was wrapped up in end of days (high school) until a close family friend went off the deep end, proclaiming the imminent end of the world. His zeal and lack of love showed me that his belief could not possibly be Christ-like. I searched for other beliefs, and find nearly every interpretation of the end to be more Christian than this one.
May God guide you (and us) on your (and our) quest for truth.



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pam w

posted February 18, 2009 at 9:24 pm


What is amazing to me is the contextual power of eschatology. The dispensational eschatology has trumped all other understandings of Revelation (nad many books related to the end times theories) throughout my 35 years on The Journey. I grew up in a CA PCUSA Church, and in high school in the late 70′s was taught dispensational eschatology in our youth group (I had no idea what dispensational was until Seminary many years later…and propose that most have no idea what has shaped predominant views of the end times). I attended a Convenant Church in college, was on staff at an EV Free church, Crusade Staff, graduated from Denver Seminary, and was on staff at Evang. Pres. Churches. Though there were many theological frameworks on that journey, the eschatology in each circle remained pretty much he same: dispensational (and among people who would absolutely deny being dispensational!). As pastors, seminary students, theologians, we would debate millenial positions, but sermons on revelation and lay conversations seemed to always be based on a disp./end times framework. It’s fascinating to look back on.
And when it comes to many aspects of living out our faith, or praxis, it is amazing how eschatology alwasy wins, evokes the greatest emotion (fear is common), and it is usually the least understood topic for anyone to explain. I think it was the vivid pictures presented in the end times literature of the 70′s, 80′s. Our minds think in pictures, and those dispensational writers were brilliant at painting vivid scenarios for us to remember.
N.T. Wright’s work has been a blessing!! He paints new pictures.



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