Hi Scot,
This all looks real good, but question: is there a networking component to Origins? I and some friends are starting an experimental publishing project in grand rapids and would like to connect into this, or at least other like-minded Origins-connected people. I think there is resonance with this and some of the things we want to do in the coming years.
“We will inspire one another to embrace innovation and creativity as a means to fulfill this mission.” I guess my questions is, so how does one “connect” into this from the outside? I didn’t really see anything on the site.
THANKS for all you and others are doing with this…
-jeremy

Scot,
I like it that the group seems to have responded to questions/concerns people raised — i.e., added women to the group leadership, provided some clarification regarding the relationship to ancient creeds, the Lausanne Covenant, etc.
And Jeremy — unless I’m mistaken, it looks like there is already a place on the website to connect with others (check out the “community” link).
I think this project is exciting.

I’m really looking forward to hearing from and participating in this new network! (I hope us more “liberal” emergent types are still welcome to tag along with y’all.
However, I was hoping, Scot, that you might be able to address Jonathan Brink’s question about why there are no women in the Core Team. I mean, I’m definitely glad to see plenty of women in the other two “support” teams (of which you yourself are a part), but it’s unfortunate that no women made it into the “upper echelon” of leadership. Could you possibly help us understand why that ended up being the case?
Thanks

Well Mike – since the “upper echelon” as you put it, are all pastors at those three churches (two from each); and as women as teaching pastors are not exactly prominent in any of the three churches … is it really a surprise?

Hey Scot,
Looking forward to seeing this take off.
peace.

RJS – I guess I don’t know those particular churches well enough to know whether they have any female pastors that could have served on the Core Team. Do you suppose it was simply a matter of not having any women in a position to do it? (Of course, that then begs the question of why several prominent churches like this lack sufficient female leadership in the first place – but I guess, sadly, that’s not so uncommon in evangelical-dom.)

Hi Mike!
The leadership is comprised of men and women. What you are asking about is the core churches. This is being birthed from churches and we “represent” these churches as it says in the description on the web site.
The leadership of the Creative Team and the Connection team consists of men and women who are mission-passionate. We had a meeting this week and decisions are made as we discuss them together.
That’s the scoop!
Dan

Mike,
Dan answers the question in part. It may simply be a question of small numbers and such.
The relevant question becomes the official and unofficial position of the leadership of these churches on women in leadership/ministry.
As far as I can tell none of the churches have official positions on-line.
If one of the churches takes a more conservative stance (for example only men can be lead, senior, or teaching pastors) – we can live with it. After all we need to learn to work together. A big tent.
If all of them take this type of position it is a problem. One can’t expect a network birthed from churches with such a stance to actually be inclusive in any truly meaningful fashion. And – of course if the “upper echelon” birthing the network come from such traditions then the lack of women is not coincidence.
The only reasonable solution in this circumstance would be to add other core leaders or to immediately eliminate or broaden the core team. No other solution would be acceptable.

Thanks for clarifying Dan. As I said, I’m glad to see so many women (and minorities!) in the other two teams. As for the Core Team, am I correct in assuming then that there simply were no female leaders in the three churches that were available to serve? And if so, was this because there are no female pastors in those churches, or simply that none were available/interested?

I am excited to see things are underway, and am looking forward to future developments.

Rick,
I agree.

Hey again Mike!
Packing up and heading to airport right now – but wanted to quickly respond. Erwin, Dave, John, Eric and myself and Josh are friends. That’s the heart of it. Scot and I have talked about it a lot. Because we see each other at events and this began as friendships of ourselves and with our churches, that was the reason we have core churches right now. Our friendships were not based on gender, it was just because we became friends and realized we had the same heart. Because we are at a lot of events together and see each other and are the ones pulling people together and coordinating the meetings so far. We then thought who will be “creating” this network and shaping it and leading it – and we then formed the Creative Team – again based on friendships we each have who are mission-hearted and kindred.
The Creative Team will be “creating” the network. But we need coordination and the local church birthing it and because it started with friendships from 3 “core” churches and our churches are the ones building the web site, plotting out details and arranging these meetings that is what is why we have core churches. Josh Fox is the lead pastor of our church, and one of my very closest friends and is part of the meetings and I love when he comes with me traveling – so he’s on the team with me for our church to help out. That’s all! There is not strategy of keeping it only guys, it is just that these are the friends who have begun with the coordination of all this.
The Creative Team was formed not to support the core churches who are coordinating things, but to “create” as the name says and to shape and guide everything we do. It is diverse gender and race.
Not sure what else to say as there isn’t anything other than that and as we formed the Creative Team it is friends we know who are mission-hearted. An the Creative Team are the ones you will be seeing and hearing from in this just as much as me as this develops. We are only in day 2 of our existence formally! So give us some time, as this is a 2 day old infant right now.
Thanks for your interest in this an say hello to Rusty!
Dan

Given Dan’s comment @12 about the relative roles of the “Core Team” and “Creative Team”, and the gender concerns expressed by some (which may be about appearances, but that’s not always unimportant), I wonder if it would better portray the effort if the About page listed the “Creative Team” first, rather than in what appears to be a subsidiary position.

Dan,
I am intruding as a outsider on the conversation, so forgive me but…
Friendships are often based on gender – and like circumstance – and kindred spirit. And that’s great – no problem. Such interactions should give birth to great ideas.
But this is also why it is important to be deliberately inclusive at all levels when formulating something bigger than a few friends.
Its not just image and perception.

@ RJS#8 and Mike #9, Imago Dei does have a position statement online that they are “soft complementarian” following Craig Blomberg (Denver Seminary Distinguished Prof of New Testament). Craig does not believe women should be lead pastors in the church, or have positions where they may exercise authoritative teaching over men. (Unless he’s changed his position within the last 5 years or so, and he hasn’t told me so when we’ve talked. I think he’d tell me if he’s changed his position, because he knows I don’t agree and our kids have gone to school together for years!
I noted that ID’s women pastors are only pastors of women and children, accordingly.
http://www.imagodeicommunity.com/information/position-papers/women-in-ministry/

Having followed the conversation over at Jonathan Brink’s blog about this, I would like to help shape the question a bit, following RJS’s last comment.
The point has never been that there are not women involved or that it is not racially diverse…it is a matter of saying that the design of the home web page doesn’t do justice to what is being attempted. That they have inadvertently shot themselves in the foot in how they lay out their story.
And I have to say that I can understand why folks feel this way.
When you’re going to design a webpage that has as much cool stuff going on as they have over at Origins, perhaps a little more creativity could have been used to not make the front page look like an organizational chart flowing from top to bottom.
I’ll even give them that this is not the intent. I’m just saying, along with the others, that if you want to say clearly that this is a conversation that includes everyone, there are more visually effective ways to do it.
I have joined Origins…have been on the “list” to get updates from the first day Scot shared the link to the original site. I am a network person and I jump in without being invited if I want to join a conversation. Has it’s ups and downs…looking for more ups than downs there.
When we started Missional Tribe, the seven of us (4 men 3 women) decided that we would list our names alphabetically so that no order could be suggested. We talked about it long and hard. It has made it a non-issue from the start.
It is unfortunate that this bit of mud has been splashed at their launch, but I believe it would be better to acknowledge how the perception is being received rather than trying to reason it away and ignoring the reality of the perception.
…just my two cents, poking my nose in ’cause I can.
Blessings….

Here’s what I say to women who are interested–just join up–that’s what I did–back when they first posted the idea. I figured if Scot McKnight was in on it it could not have a “no women in ministry” position. I also looked at the church websites of the the key players and outside of Imago Dei i didn’t see any “complimentarian statements.”
if you are a women and you feel called to join this movement of the church–don’t wait for any more invitations–just do it. The more women, who understand the Gospel, let their voices be heard the better.

Peggy #16,
Perhaps it is arranged chronologically, not organizationally? (i.e. the core team formed first, then the creative team, and then the connecting team)
Nevertheless, your point remains: maybe there is a better way to visually represent this.

I am so pleased to share this update with you all:
http://jonathanbrink.com/2009/04/25/a-restorative-move-for-women/
Yes, Andrew, it could have been arranged chronologically — but the simple redesign they chose to implement really does make a difference in the first impression factor.
This wee abbess is grateful….

Excellent redesign – it makes a big difference in the first impression factor.

Thanks so much for the further clarification Dan. That is very helpful and I’m very glad to know that the make-up of the Core Team was purely circumstantial. I’m also very glad to see the redesign of the web page to clarify the importance and diversity of the Creative Team. Thanks for being responsive (and not defensive) to the concerns raised by Jonathan, myself and others.
Anyhow, blessings on this new venture. I’ll look forward to following it as things progress. And I’ll definitely let Rusty know you said hi. He’s pretty busy these days with the new little one of course. He’s a good dad and Ella is beautiful.