We started yesterday, with a post of our own, a series on marriage by examining the recent book of John Piper's called This Momentary Marriage: A Parable of Permanence
. Question added at 9:25am CT (find at bottom of post).
John Piper, pastor at Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis (or St Paul -- the same to me), chooses to punctuate his biblical exposition with Dietrich Bonhoeffer -- and he's got me on his side with that. In prison, Bonhoeffer wrote some about marriage (see Letters and Papers from Prison
).Piper's angle on marriage is that it is not eternal, and he roots that idea in the Bible, and I quote from the TNIV: "When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven" (Mark 12:25).
Here are Piper's opening statements about marriage as momentary and I'd like to know how you respond to these opening salvos:
In talking about Bonhoeffer, who was hanged before he could marry, Piper says he "skipped the shadow on the way to the Reality" (13). After quoting Mark 12:25, "The shadow of covenant-keeping between husband and wife gives way to the reality of covenant-keeping between Christ and his glorified Church. Nothing is lost. The music of every pleasure is transposed into an infinitely higher key" (15).
So, "The meaning of marriage is the display of the covenant-keeping love between Christ and his people" (15).
What are the implications? "High romance and passionate sexual intimacy and precious children may come. But hold them loosely -- as though you were not holding them" (16). "Romance, sex, and childbearing are temporary gifts of God. They are not part of the next life. And they are not guaranteed even for this life. They are one possible path along the narrow way to Paradise." (16-17).
Thus, "Marriage is a momentary gift" (17).
Added question: Does Mark 12:25 teach that there are no married couples after the resurrection or does it teach that there will be no marrying and giving in marriage? Does it teach that all will be celibates or that no changes occur after the resurrection? The balance clearly favors permanent celibacy, but with enhanced pleasure and fellowship with God and others, after the resurrection. But I wonder if this text actually says there is no marriage.
So, "The meaning of marriage is the display of the covenant-keeping love between Christ and his people" (15).
What are the implications? "High romance and passionate sexual intimacy and precious children may come. But hold them loosely -- as though you were not holding them" (16). "Romance, sex, and childbearing are temporary gifts of God. They are not part of the next life. And they are not guaranteed even for this life. They are one possible path along the narrow way to Paradise." (16-17).
Thus, "Marriage is a momentary gift" (17).
Added question: Does Mark 12:25 teach that there are no married couples after the resurrection or does it teach that there will be no marrying and giving in marriage? Does it teach that all will be celibates or that no changes occur after the resurrection? The balance clearly favors permanent celibacy, but with enhanced pleasure and fellowship with God and others, after the resurrection. But I wonder if this text actually says there is no marriage.
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(#21) John, no dualism intended. My point is that the relationships will be understood in a different way. Besides new by definition does imply changes from what previously existed - granted we don't know the extent of the changes but surely there will be some difference. Clearly the Kingdom will be fully realized - itself a change if you will and my thought was that it is a possibility that marriage as such will no longer be part of the new heaven and new earth.
Surely there's both continuity and discontinuity between this life and the life to come.
Hebrews does seem to have Platonic terminology- shadows/reality.
The speculation here just underscores for me that we just don't know. It will be far richer and greater all the way around, than we can begin to fathom, now.
Mark 12:25 (NIV) When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
On a simple reading, the text indicates that people don't start over - God the Father is not setting his resurrected sons and daughters up for marriage ("marry" referring to the sons, "given in marriage" referring to his daughters). Resurrected men and women are not angels, merely like angels. The text doesn't address the status of prior relationships, prior memories, prior accumulated life experiences.
Jesus seems to be making a general point to the Sadducees: there is a resurrection, and people don't start over and build new families. In reference to the woman with seven husbands, Jesus doesn't seem to indicate that there is a problem with that situation.
Jesus seems to be saying that the woman, the seven husbands and whatever children that are all involved will all be like angels. That doesn't explain a whole lot. Except that it will be very good.
I have always assumed that Mark 12:25 meant that there would be no marriage in heaven. As someone who has never been married, I have taken great joy and comfort in this idea because for me it means that there will be no more exclusion in heaven. No matter how open any married couple is, there is always a level of intimacy in their relationship enjoyed only by those two and from which others are barred. How can such barriers and exclusion continue into the eschaton?
I suppose I agree more with MattthewS(26)'s description of heaven as perfect fellowship not only with God but also with one another, as an intimacy so great that it surpasses all the greatest forms of intimacy that we currently know (i.e., marriage, sex). Then, I will fully know others and will be fully known just as I long to know and be known now but am prohibited from knowing. No more barriers will exist from this communion, and we shall all share in it together.
The idea of marriage as an eternal state between two people to me sounds like a state of permanent exclusion to others and from knowing others. To me, that sounds more like hell than heaven.
Hmmm. Neither Jesus nor Paul considered their unmarried state a lesser state or calling than marriage, but rather a different call. Marriage is not easier or better. In some ways a Christian marriage can be more difficult, in other ways less. It seems to me that, in general, Protestants seem to have a pretty unbalanced view of marriage -- perhaps because they have no monastics?
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