Jesus Creed

Marriage as Parable of Permanence 4

Monday July 6, 2009

Categories: Love and Marriage
We are discussing marriage by examining the recent book of John Piper's called This Momentary Marriage: A Parable of Permanence. "Marriage," Piper says, "is more wonderful than anyone on earth knows" (29). And he argues that we need God's...
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Comments
MatthewS
July 6, 2009 8:54 AM
http://bobbyorr.wordpress.com

It seems to me a surprisingly powerful element of the Genesis story that mankind's genesis was without shame. I cannot imagine a world without it. It is deeply embedded into our lives. In some cultures, shame is considered on a wider scale that includes the community at large while people in other cultures tend to experience it more privately. We all dislike it. It seems to me that it goes beyond trustworthy to trusted, known. The Fall meant transparency and relationship lost. Shame can lurk, hidden and painful, even in someone's heart who seems to be very open and trusting in a relationship. In the dark caves of the heart, is anyone truly without shame? This was a high cost for the thrill of the fall and it shows up in each marriage.

SusanG
July 6, 2009 9:58 AM

How long should you stay in a marriage if your partner refuses spiritual guidence or therapy and continues to break the covenants of the marriage with adultry, verbal and physical abuse. I was forced to kick him out of the house hoping this would get him to go to a therapist or our pastor but we just continued on with his life style and now has told all our friends we are seperated. He is a christain and has been since he was a teenager. He is 51 now. He protrays himself as the victim since I kicked him out of the house. We have no children and have been married 10 years. We have gone to therapy on and off but never consistently. There is a lot of shame on both our parts do to the physical abuse. I have not told anyone except a therapist about the physical abuse which he is in complete denial about. He refuses to acknowledge it or apologize for it.

John W Frye
July 6, 2009 12:13 PM
http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com

will we all be naked in "the new heavens and earth" since innocence and covenant-keeping love are restored and eternal?

Scott Morizot
July 6, 2009 4:47 PM
http://faithandfood.morizot.net/

John (#3), No we won't. We will be clothed in Christ, wearing pure robes, robes of light, and a host of other metaphors. This is, of course, one of the flaws of those who perceive the garden story as "perfect" man and God's work as the restoration to that former state. Obviously they were not perfect. Had they been perfect they could not have "fallen". Rather, they were immature with the potential for both mortality and immortality. We are not be restored to some idyllic prior state. In Christ we are being remade into something that transcends our origin.

I'm also not big on reading too much "covenant" into the story. I'm not clear that I see where in the first two chapters they make contracts or vows or covenants with each other. Seems to me to be something that is read into the story, not something that is actually present in it.

ChristSpeak
July 6, 2009 5:36 PM
http://www.christspeak.com

Nudity in heaven . . . that is an interesting thought. While I agree with Scott (#4) in saying that we will no longer be in the naive state of Adam and Eve, that may not reflect on the clothing matter. In heaven there will be no marriage (as I interpret the discussion with Jesus and the Sadducees) and no sin (and therefore no lust).

Will there be temptation in heaven? I would assume not, or at least no temptation beyond the simple knowledge that we could sin (which Adam/Eve may have lacked originally) that we can dismiss without even considering because of the whole new-body-and-God-reigning-supreme thing. If there is no temptation, would everyone being naked be a bad thing? I could argue not. However, will people, having remembered their previous lives (also an assumption, but I would assume they could), find this somehow offensive (or something to that effect)? Perhaps not, but its an interesting thought.

I suppose my final thought it simply -- who cares at this point? If we do, it will be perfect. If we don't, it will still be perfect. Let's solve this one after we figure out the furniture of heaven ;)

John W Frye
July 6, 2009 7:18 PM
http://www.jesustheradicalpastor.com

Susan G (#2),
It is now later in the day and I see no one commented on your painful marital situation. First, I am sorry that your marriage has conveyed so much disappointment and that your spouse does not seem to be making responsible decisions. Second, in these kinds of situations it is important to guard your own heart and be alert to your own safety. You are in our prayers.

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Scot McKnight is a widely-recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. He is the Karl A. Olsson Professor in Religious Studies at North Park University (Chicago, Illinois). A popular and witty speaker, Dr. McKnight has given interviews on radios across the nation, has appeared on television, and is regularly asked to speak in local churches and educational events. Dr. McKnight obtained his Ph.D. at the University of Nottingham (1986). Click to continue reading Scot McKnight's Bio...

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