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Scot McKnight is a widely-recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. He is the Karl A. Olsson Professor in Religious Studies at North Park University (Chicago, Illinois). A popular and witty speaker, Dr. McKnight has given interviews on radios across the nation, has appeared on television, and is regularly asked to speak in local churches and educational events. Dr. McKnight obtained his Ph.D. at the University of Nottingham (1986). Click to continue reading Scot McKnight's Bio...
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MatthewS
Interesting ideas - which go with Scot's comment, presumably Kellers idea, on love in the post: The stereotype desires of both males and females do not find their intended aim in any human person.
But - I wondered a bit if the Isaac story was really appropriate for Keller's point, I also wonder about this one.
Is it an appropriate use of this passage?
RJS, as in "great sermon, wrong passage?"
I think the image of dreaming of Rachel but waking up with Leah is powerful and has some potential use. But it is hard for me to see it originating from the story, I admit. Hard to explain it to someone else and make it make sense - it takes some explaining. Seems to me the finger pointing forward to Christ is the better part of his thinking here.
I have seen abuses of Scripture and theology in general that have brought real-life consequences. From this, I have come to believe that it is very important to root interpretation in what the original author intended for the original audience to understand or do, and what the original audience would have understood. Just a guess - I am guessing the original audience would see some creative power to image of dreaming of Rachel but waking up with Leah, but I also would guess they would find it a novel use of the story. I like the image but in thinking about it, I wonder if this is really a good example of sound exegesis?
Having expressed that, I would say that I believe the notion of counterfeit gods (idolatry) is an issue all through both the OT and the NT and is very worthy of discussion; it is the sort of discussion that stands to change lives. I really don't to speak out of turn in pride or to be unduly critical of a good pastor here. But it is important to link "great sermon" with "right passage."
MatthewS,
Yes - great sermon wrong passage.
On the other hand, I think that Keller is using the OT stories in a fashion consistent with both NT authors and early church fathers use of the OT. It simply is not consistent with the literal view of reformation thinkers and most of evangelicalism. Maybe Keller's approach is actually one that we should use more as we look at the story of scripture.
MatthewS and RJS-
Good thoughts and I agree on the problem with using this passage (I must say I have great respect for Keller and what he is doing. He is a huge asset to the church and Kingdom).
Is Rachel idolized by Jacob, or it it a healthy love? A lot hinges on that question, and is frequently interpreted as an story about crafty manipulation rather than unhealthy love.
MatthewS-
I still wonder at what point to the "deep longings" become the idol. If the counterfeit gods were used to meet those longings, are we simply using the real God to meet those longings as well. Are they the ultimate goal, and God simply a tool to get us there?
RJS,
I think we are mostly on the same page on this. I would say that I don't think we can appeal to NT authors' use of the OT to establish practice for today. We don't really understand what they were doing. Their hermeneutics do not arise from our worldview and we can't really put ourselves back then to understand what they were doing. We have to assume they were acting fairly within their context but how could we assure we would do the same? Also, we aren't apostles. All of that says to me its better to let their teachings stand but not try to re-create and build on the parts of their thinking that are most opaque to us today.
Rick,
My take on this is that the longings just are. At the well, Jesus assumed the woman was thirsty and would be thirsty again. Her thirst is assumed. But what water to drink? Relationships? (Five husbands plus one) Or "living water?" (John 4) Same with Jeremiah, who prosecuted God's complaint that his people were digging broken cisterns, rejecting the spring of living water (Jer 2:13). Their thirst is assumed, it's the water they drink that is bad.
I take this to be the kernel of truth in Piper's teachings, that our longings just are and the most self-interested thing we can do happens to be the most "spiritual" thing: take our longings to Jesus, the fountain of living water. Don't pretend we aren't thirsty. It takes honesty and humility to admit our deep thirst and our inability to quench it. (Sadly, I think Piper saddles that pony up and rides it off into an unwarranted sunset but that's a whole other issue...)
Short story: thirst/longings just are. Admit them and take them to the one true God. We go to him because we need him. Any other god (counterfeit gods), like the stereotypical dishonest car salesman, will disappoint. There is one God who is the fountain of living water. And you and I are thirsty. So Jesus stands up at the feast in the gospel of John and shouts to humanity, Come to me and drink living water!
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