Question: What makes a gathering "church"? What are the elements that turn a gathering into a church meeting? Is it "church" when I have coffee with two Christian students? Is a Bible study "church"?
. I include his concluding paragraph, but I've got these two questions first:Do you think "virtual" church is "real" church? Or, what makes connections, gatherings, etc into "real" church?
The good news for the world today is that virtual churches, Baptist churches, banana-tree churches, underground churches, Lutheran churches, communal churches, house churches, and yes, even tragically-hip Pacific Northwest alternative 'pub' churches are real churches. You may not want to meet in synthetic space--and I would not want to meet in a bar--but it doesn't change the fact that when the people of God meet together for the purpose of glorifying Him, it's a real church. Online churches are real churches with real people in real relationships with a real God simply meeting in synthetic spaces.
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Nils said:
"In the virtual world you can just log off anytime it is convenient for you, whereas in real life you can't do that; you have to go through the discomfort of learning to relate to people, even the ones you don't like. A Christian leader in Australia said once that real community is when there is always someone you don't want to be around. Like a marriage where you are forced to grow and mature, Christian community is where we are forced to grow and mature as well."
I can log off in real life. I get up and leave the room. Or I change the subject.
I have been in plenty of forums/chat rooms where there are people I don't like. And people I wish would just shut up. And people I wish would speak up. I've been in online conversations where I wanted to leave, but stayed in it because too much is at stake.
It seems most people's biggest issue with online community is that it feels too anonymous to them. People can create images of themselves that aren't real, or just leave when they want to, etc.
Putting aside that you can do those things just as easily in real life, I don't think this is the right track to take. Everything can devolve into something ugly. Seems the real question should be, what potential, and what insurmountable limitations, does online church have? If committed people with the right heart and attitude decide to "do church" online, where will they be frustrated by the limitations of the medium?
And it seems to me the biggest problem would be getting out into the community and being light and life and love. Online church probably isn't local to anywhere, so acting locally is going to be difficult. Helping widows and orphans is going to be difficult. Being with the poor is going to be difficult - few of the poor have access to online church. Problems like this seem much bigger than problems of community and relationship.
I would like to offer a differing perspective.
Online church has saved my soul.
Truly, that is not too strong a phrase. I am not a scholar, but I have been a seeker for most of my life. I have been an active participant in brick and mortar churches, but I never was able to make the leap of faith from seeker to disciple. In February 2008, in what could only be the work of the Holy Spirit, I was led to an online church called St. Pixels. (www.stpixels.com)
St. Pixels has many components. There is a chat room area which has both social areas (the porch and the bar) and worship areas (the sanctuary.) Every day at 9 pm British time, there is a service. There are services held at other times during several other days of the week. Obviously, sacraments (baptism, eucharist) cannot be served in a virtual manner. However, worship can and does take place. There is a congregational leader. The service consists of hymns or songs, a reading from Scripture, a sermon or message preached from a virtual pulpit, and prayers led both by the congregational leader and the community.
If these components of worship were held in a brick and mortar church, would this be considered a worship service? Of course! Therefore, it is difficult for me to say that this does not meet the criteria for worship. God is clearly present! His Word is proclaimed. Prayers are offered.
Furthermore, the church does not consist solely of worship. If it lacked a cohesive community, then I believe we would be justified in calling into question the ecclesiastical nature of it. However, members spend a great deal of time in fellowship in "the porch" or "the bar." We come to know one another well and to share in joys and sorrows of our community.
Members also participate in blogs, in which they talk about things of a personal nature. There is a "discuss" stream, in which larger, more generalized discussions (including the notion of whether or not we are a "real" church) are discussed. Bible studies are held, both in real time in the chat room, and through discussions on Biblical verses and books in the discuss forums.
Many members have met face to face. We are a truly international community, although the majority of the members are from either the UK or the USA. We have members in Australia, France, Africa, India, and South America. We have telephone meets.
In terms of serving one another, obviously casseroles are difficult. However, cards and gifts are mailed between members. We minister to one another. One of our beloved members, who was part of three generations who worship at St. Pixels, died earlier this week. The community is in mourning, but we have gathered together to support her daughter. Hundreds of prayers have been said. Fellowship and support have been extended to her daughter and grand daughter. Gifts have been sent. Telephone calls have been made. Members have discussed flying to be there with the family. These are real relationships that develop. Hundreds of hours have been spent getting to know one another. We are truly not strangers; we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
While I have heard the words of the Good News proclaimed from pulpits in churches across the country, it was not until I heard it proclaimed at St. Pixels, and felt it extended through the support of the online community that I have come to true faith and experience of grace. It has been at St. Pixels that I have come to understand the Good News.
A pastor (a flesh and blood pastor, from Illinois, who is a long time belief net user) met me there and heard my questions and searching. Thank God that he felt the call of John Wesley to preach the gospel throughout the world. He has spent literally thousands of hours in pastoral counseling via the medium of the internet. In the age of the virtual world, time and space have less meaning than they used to. IM truly can be an effective vehicle for pastoral care. For some folks, it may be the most effective medium. For the profoundly self conscious, or people living with bodily shame, the internet can be a tremendously helpful medium or vehicle for pastoral care. If I am not mistaken, it is possible that the breakdown of time and space is also a feature of the heavenly Kingdom. The pastoral relationship I developed through virtual church, along with the support of the larger st. pixels community, has shown me what grace truly is. I have a relationship with Jesus because of the worship, prayers, and fellowship of a virtual church.
Is online church a replacement for brick and mortar churches? By no means! Physical church relationships are vital. Nobody at St. Pixels have doubted that. Incarnational, bodily interaction is a good thing, an important thing, both in terms of theology and in terms of ministry. The Sacraments are important means of grace that cannot be administered online. Most, although not all, st. pixelites are also involved in physical church. But for many members, including several elderly or infirm members who have had difficulty getting to a brick and mortar church, online church has provided experiences of worship, study, and community that have served to proclaim the Good News. For some seekers, virtual church has served as a place of exploration that they experienced as less threatening than the brick and mortar establishments, and have led them to both knowledge and love of God, as well as encouraging them to find a brick and mortar place of worship. Evangelism is another ecclesiastical experience that is possible in virtual church.
I believe there is a difference between Paul's experience of being present with churches "in spirit" and communicating by letter and the experience of virtual church. Real time community and relationships changes the dynamic and makes it more immediate. Real time interaction allows relationships and worship to take place in a way that being present "in spirit" alone would not allow.
Where two or three are gathered together in His Name, He is in the
midst of them. He is truly, and surely, present in virtual communities.
I happen to tbe the "felsh and blood pastor" from Illinois, Jessica writes about, and an important thing to note is that she lives a thousand miles from me and we have never met in the "real world" but we have shared some very...even excruciatingly...real moments.
Neither of us would calim that a virtual presence is the same as a physical one, but it is, nonetheless a powerfully real one.
OOps. Let's make that "flesh and blood."
I think if you combine Deets (#13) and RJS (#'s 20 and 24), you get to the heart of the real question. I agree with the point Deets made regarding what church is. Then, when you understand that, the question, as RJS said, becomes, is a virtual community a real community? I believe it is very difficult to create a virtual community that resembles the collective nature of the church in the first century.
Jessica's testimony (#38) is interesting. The gospel can be spread virtually. Relationships can begin virtually. But eventually, the time comes when food needs to be shared with the needy or when a hug needs to be given becuase of a death. And that is where community comes in. I think it takes extreme devotion for a virtual community to grow to the point where you consider flying across the country to be with a grieving brother or sister. While it seems to be possible, I think a local community serves individual needs in a much more efficient manner than would even a committed virtual community.
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