Jesus Creed

Jesus Creed

The Dark Side of Bible Reading: by Jeremy Berg

posted by Scot McKnight | 5:40am Monday October 5, 2009

JBerg.jpg

Jeremy Berg is a youth pastor; he’s done some Friday is for Friends for us, but I wanted to get this one up today. 

I have long been irritated by a common critique or complaint people have after listening to a biblical exposition of a passage.  This is especially true of teenagers after hearing their youth pastor unpack a dense portion of, say, Romans. “How does this apply to my life?”  ”What does this have to do with me?”  I believe this simple request, which sounds so reasonable and innocent on the surface, has a darker side that has should at least be considered. Before we explore this darker side let me qualify this statement by saying:

  1.   I believe personal application of the Bible’s message is critical. Absolutely critical.
  2.  I believe preachers should help hearers of the Word become doers of the Word.  Of course.
  3.  As a youth pastor speaking weekly to teens I really need to work harder at this. I have much room for improvement.  

My irritation with the cult of personal application is the self-centered, self-absorbed posture of many as they approach God’s Word. Now it seems perfectly appropriate after hearing one of Jesus’ parables to ask oneself how his teaching is personally challenging us. But the operative word there is AFTER.


I am concerned about those who approach the text with their own issues and preoccupations already in mind and ask the Word to magically speak to those issues. I am irritated with an attitude (usually well-meaning and unintentional, by the way) that sounds like: “That’s a nice story Jesus, but can you please address my problem with __________?”  Or, after reading Paul’s monumental Letter to the Romans saying, “Wow, Paul, that was some deep stuff!  Can we talk about me now?”  And a thousand other variations. 

The hidden dark side of this posture toward God’s Word is that it reveals a deep-seated self-absorption that keeps us at the center of our universe and insists that God and His Word orbit our needs and serve our interests. Do you see a problem with this posture toward God and the text?  

Instead, I would like to offer a different posture toward God’s Word. In fact, it’s the very opposite approach. 

  1.  First, let’s humbly approach God’s Word as we would approach God himself.  Let’s reverently bow in awe and listen intently to what he is actually saying to us.
  2.  Instead of “applying the Bible to our lives” (which again assumes we are the fixed center point and the Word is just a holy ointment to be applied to our souls) let’s instead try to “apply ourselves to the Bible.”  Put narratively, let’s not let give God a convenient place within our own story; but rather find ourselves swept up in God’s much larger Story!
  3.  Instead of bringing all of our concerns to the text and forcing it to speak to them, let’s instead let God’s concerns invite us out of our (relatively) petty preoccupations and into the realm of heavenly realities. “Set your mind on things above, not on earthly things” (Col 3:2). Or, as The Message Bible puts it: “Don’t shuffle along, eyes to the ground, absorbed with the things right in front of you. Look up, and be alert to what is going on around Christ–that’s where the action is. See things from his perspective.” When we get a glimpse of “God reality” all of our own earthly concerns are seen in a new light. 
  4.  Finally, personal application must come only AFTER one has given God’s Word a fair hearing. Let God lead the conversation where He so desires. When we’re done letting God’s Word speak then we can ask the Spirit to give us a personal assignment in response to God’s challenge. 

I’m sure there is a better way to say all of this.  But I hope you see my point. Now I wonder what you all think.

 Am I the only one who has noticed this?  Do you agree that many approach the Bible with an irreverent, self-absorbed posture?  How should preachers handle the practical application piece?  How do you balance (a) letting God’s Word have it’s way and (b) personal application of its message?  What am I missing here?



Previous Posts

This blog is no longer active
This blog is no longer being actively updated. Please feel free to browse the archives or: Read our most popular inspiration blog See our most popular inspirational video Take our most popular quiz

posted 3:10:39pm Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Our Common Prayerbook 30 - 3
Psalm 30 thanks God (vv. 1-3, 11-12) and exhorts others to thank God (vv. 4-5). Both emerge from the concrete reality of David's own experience. Here is what that experience looks like:Step one: David was set on high and was flourishing at the hand of God's bounty (v. 7a).Step two: David became too

posted 12:15:30pm Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Theology After Darwin 1 (RJS)
One of the more important and more difficult pieces of the puzzle as we feel our way forward at the interface of science and faith is the theological implications of discoveries in modern science. A comment on my post Evolution in the Key of D: Deity or Deism noted: ...this reminds me of why I get a

posted 6:01:52am Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Almost Christian 4
Who does well when it comes to passing on the faith to the youth? Studies show two groups do really well: conservative Protestants and Mormons; two groups that don't do well are mainline Protestants and Roman Catholics. Kenda Dean's new book is called Almost Christian: What the Faith of Ou

posted 12:01:53am Aug. 31, 2010 | read full post »

Let's Get Neanderthal!
The Cave Man Diet, or Paleo Diet, is getting attention. (Nothing is said about Culver's at all.) The big omission, I have to admit, is that those folks were hunters -- using spears or smacking some rabbit upside the conk or grabbing a fish or two with their hands ... but that's what makes this diet

posted 2:05:48pm Aug. 30, 2010 | read full post »

Advertisement
Comments read comments(54)
post a comment
Zivaray

posted October 5, 2009 at 6:52 am


Wonderful post. This is a great new way to approach the Word of God. I’ve spent a lot of my Bible devotions dedicated to how can it help me or how does it apply to me. I will now start looking at my devotional and Bible reading time with the new perspective. I will apply my life to God’s word and not vice-versa. When I turned away from God a few years ago, my whole notion was that God’s word didn’t apply to me. Thank God I’ve been liberated from that point-of-view.
Zivaray



report abuse
 

Rick

posted October 5, 2009 at 7:24 am


Jeremy-
“I’m sure there is a better way to say all of this.”
I think you said it quite well. Great post.
As the Bonhoffer post today indicates, this is not necessarily a new problem. He was concerned about that as well.
However, Facebook, Twitter, etc… might be increasing the problem for us today.
Prof. Keith Drury in a post today has related questions and concerns, that might shine some light on your questions.
He writes:
“The four propositions of the popular doctrine of entitlement go something like this:
God is love and He loves me so much that he would have sent Christ to die for me if I were the only person in the world.
I was created in God?s image and am a person of worth as a person alone?I do not have to do, or say, or try anything to be worthy in God?s eyes?I am worthy as a person created in God?s own image.
God?s love for me is based on who I am?a person of worth, and not because of anything that I do or have done?I am the central focus of God?s attention and love because I am.
Salvation is thus an entitlement for me. It is not something I can work for, believe for, or even ask for?it is granted to me because I am a person?I do not even ask if I am saved, of course I am saved?for God loves me completely and accepts me just as I am.”
Drury goes on to write,
“While few would put it exactly this way, I see a growing number of people who practically-speaking live by this doctrine.”
I wonder if this mindset might be propelling people to read Scripture with the same mindset- Since I am so valuable to God, Scripture exists to shine light for issues in my life.



report abuse
 

Diane

posted October 5, 2009 at 7:55 am


Great post and great comments. Points one and two: Let’s listen and apply ourselves to the Bible, not the Bible to us, are especially well put.
Rick,
Your four propositions strike me as correct and it’s interesting how they are such a subtle twisting of the truth. The problem comes when we move from “I am here for God and an acceptable and beloved servant to him as is,” to “God is here for me and to service me, and because he loves me, I don’t have to change.”
On the other hand, the urgency with which young people are seeking answers also speaks to the problems and pressures in youth culture today, so I think that also has to be addressed.
Paul tells us that the spiritual life will bear fruit, such as endurance, patience and thanksgiving, so perhaps the emphasis could move from “how does this passage apply to my life,” to “how do I live to bear fruit?’



report abuse
 

Sacredise

posted October 5, 2009 at 8:28 am


Great post,Jeremy, and I totally agree with what you’re saying.
I would probably distinguish between the process of reading the text and the process of preaching the text. In reading, I would follow exactly what you’re saying and use that in my preparation for preaching. However, in order to be invitational in my preaching, I would probably then start from the hearers, and move to the Scriptures. The application would still be derived from reading the text as you outline, but I would want to “set the hearers up” for what the text has to say before going into the text in a sermon.
Just my own brainstorming…



report abuse
 

Clint

posted October 5, 2009 at 8:28 am


Is there a three-point sermon that can help me work this into my daily devos?*
*I may have just bitten my tongue before extracting it from my cheek.



report abuse
 

Ed Gentry

posted October 5, 2009 at 8:46 am


I’m afraid that this phenomenon is not isolated to youth.
The church I attend has recently held an extended discussion about our youth program. The discussion involved many of the prominent members of the church. In the end the priorities for the youth ministry was grouped into important categories. We then engaged in group brainstorming to help flesh out how these priorities may be implemented.
Helping the youth understand the Bible, or God was nowhere on the list! If asked, depending on who you asked, you would be told one of the following:
1) Teaching the youth – and possibly adults – Bible or Theology will only kill them. We should not be bashing them over the heads with our ideologies.
2) Trying to teach the youth anything including the Bible or Theology does not work because “it does not lead to the outcomes we would like” so instead of teaching the youth we will just spend time with them.
Many people, in my church especially, have been burned by overly dogmatic, insensitive, uncharitable churches which prised (supposedly) “correct” theology over caring for others.
Sadly we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Since the Bible was used to hurt people then we should throw it out!
Be glad that at least in your church you can still teach the Bible to your youth even if they are asking self absorbed questions.



report abuse
 

Jarrod Saul McKenna

posted October 5, 2009 at 8:46 am


Amen, amen, amen!
Put very well.
Grace and peace.



report abuse
 

ParPlen

posted October 5, 2009 at 8:59 am


Jeremy, Thanks for the post.
I like Zivaray will try to approach scripture differently from now on.
You said, “…after hearing their youth pastor unpack a dense portion of, say, Romans.” Now I love to get into God’s word and Romans is just one of the places you can drown in it’s depths, but I think we set kids and others up for the kind of reaction you mention when we give them to much content at one time.
I would liken it to trying to read the print on a newspaper as it flies through a printing press. It just leaves us saying, “What just happened here?” or “Hey, If you want me to get something out of all that technical, detailed stuff you just told me you’re going to have show me what this has to do with me.”
In order to “…find ourselves swept up in God’s much larger Story”, we need to give people some thinking space. Some time to obey. Some focus to our obedience as a community. And this comes when we throttle back our content.
I think that many expositors confuse accuracy with precision, and are asking there disciples to measure scripture with a a micrometer when a wooden ruler might be more appropriate for their maturity level. Both tools can be used accurately, it is just that one is more appropriate for the job than the other.
Personally I know I need quite a bit of time to let my heart and hands catch up with my head.
Great Post. You make me think and you make me want to commit to Him more. Your youth group is blessed to have you.
Tom



report abuse
 

Freeman

posted October 5, 2009 at 9:32 am


This is a great post. One of the best I have read in awhile. If we could all learn that the Scriptures weren’t primarily written to us then we could all learn to read them better. Sometimes we end up getting things from the Scriptures that we were never supposed to get and some other things get lost because of our failure to read accurately. Great post.



report abuse
 

BPRjam

posted October 5, 2009 at 9:49 am


Amen!
I believe it was Barth who thought that the common way of preaching (hook, book, look, took) was a fallacy of an overly self-centered culture. Instead, he argued, the scripture should stand opposite to us, tell us wholly what it has to say without our interference, and as we interact in the world, the Spirit will guide us into our place as part of God’s grand story and our understanding of how God interacted with others, gathered from scripture, will help guide us today.
I’ve actually had good success with Barth’s approach to scripture when I’ve taught the youth in my church. Essentially, the text stands for itself. Questions having to do with evolution, where to go to college, dating/marriage, lust, etc are dealt with almost extrabiblically, given the extent to which that exact topic is dealt with in the scripture.
As I write it, this approach sounds strange, but it has worked quite well in producing youth who know and understand the text, and are imaginative in how they deal with contemporary issues while keeping the grand story as a backdrop.
Great topic and great post, Jeremy.



report abuse
 

Scott Eaton

posted October 5, 2009 at 10:09 am


Jeremy, I agree with the others – excellent!



report abuse
 

Pat

posted October 5, 2009 at 10:16 am


All I can say Jeremy is, Amen and Amen! So true and frustrating at times. It’s also frustrating listening to people answer someone’s question with an equally self-centered approach. As teachers and preachers, we need to listen to people with the heart so that we can properly discern questions and answer them with depth, not the usual formulaic answers that doesn’t get to the heart of the matter. No wonder people can’t get past the me syndrome. Our answers don’t take them beyond themselves.



report abuse
 

Bob Smallman

posted October 5, 2009 at 10:30 am


“… but rather find ourselves swept up in God’s much larger Story!”
That is the key, isn’t it?! To understand that the Bible, at its core, is not a cookbook (or an answer book) but a storybook. And the Subject of the Story is God, not us.



report abuse
 

MatthewS

posted October 5, 2009 at 10:35 am


Agree very much and yes, this has been an ongoing concern/angst. Seminary kind of opens your eyes to this. Something that is often on my mind is that you must “go back there” (original author, audience, culture, occasion, intended affect, etc.) before you can “bring it forward to here and now.” When I teach, I try to guide people into letting the story live by talking about archaeological finds, the tools that were present at the time, architecture of the time, contemporary events to the story, geography, etc. For example, the story of Ruth and the irony of her just happening into Boaz’s field occurs at the time of the judges, which saw many unsavory events. To fail to give any sense of the time of the judges misses the backdrop of the story.
From a US cultural perspective, the west was won by utilitarian, tough people who figured out what works and kept doing it. I think this mindset has been passed down to some degree and tends to encourage the “but what does it say to me today” mindset. This mindset might be more deeply rooted that merely looking for self-help; it may be a worldview that judges the usefulness and goodness of something by its effectiveness in creating objectively observable progress or results.
In the interest of balance, I think I have been guilty of swinging too far to the other side. Especially with OT stories, I really enjoy seeing irony, including overstatement and understatement, chiasm, repeated words. I like imagining the original audience listening to the story and wondering what parts of the story stood out to them and helped them remember it, discovering unexpected bits of humor. It is possible to enjoy going back so much that one fails to bring it forward. But people in the pew do need their teachers to bring it forward for them. I’m not saying the OP is unbalanced, just that I have had the experience of overreacting and then focusing entirely on letting the story live but failing to consider proper intended affect or questions or suggestions for today’s audience.



report abuse
 

Kate Obermueller

posted October 5, 2009 at 10:55 am


A friend emailed this to me – I think it is well excellent and well-thought-out. I’m often guilty of this posture myself, and this essay illuminates that. Thank you.
As someone who has preached regularly for only a couple of years, I wonder how I would approach this. The challenge for any preacher is to communicate how God’s Word cuts through the here and now and enters culture and our lives in a relevant way. If a preacher fails to make a personal connection to the hearers’ lives, there’s no avenue for them to personally apply the message.
I want to say that it’s the mysterious job of the Holy Spirit to convict and teach as the Word is being proclaimed – but to some extent that is a cop out. What suggestions do you have for pastors? How do we shape our message in such a way to avoid this self-centered posture but communicate the relevancy of God’s word to our lives as individuals and a community?



report abuse
 

David B. Johnson

posted October 5, 2009 at 11:11 am


I’m in total agreement with the manner in which Jeremy is exhorting us to approach the reading of the Bible. However, I think a related discussion that could be fruitful would be about how we teach the Bible. Yes, in our preparation we need to “go back there” before we “bring it here.” On the other hand, having done the work of exegesis and hermeneutics, I believe our presentation of the Bible to God’s people should be shaped by what the theology (interpreted in light of the Grand Story) of the text is saying to today’s audience. In other words, we should not leave the application to the end, which sort of communicates how important we think it is. Instead, as I heard Tim Keller instruct, we should allow the application of the text to inform the way we present the text to the community, so that they know God gave his Word to the community to be obeyed as part of their submission to him. I believe Keller cited Deuteronomy 28.1. The purpose is obedience, not gnosis.



report abuse
 

Bill Donahue

posted October 5, 2009 at 11:27 am


Scot/Jeremy — great post – taught on this over the weekend to a group of leaders in Louisiana — used a pseudo lectio divina approach as a way to engage the Bible differently than the classic scientific method of Observation, Interpretation, Application — Mulholland’s “Shaped by the Word” is great for this.
We need to start more Bible Practice Groups, not more Bible Study groups. We need to encounter the Author not simply engage the text. It is more relational — Would you rather be studied and analyzed or discovered and known? John 17:3 comes to mind. And, to your point and the comments of others, we need to be mastered by the Word instead of seeking to simply master the word.
I resonate deeply with this post and thank you for stirring us up to this end. -bill



report abuse
 

Terry

posted October 5, 2009 at 11:47 am


This has been my thinking and the intent of my reading and teaching increasingly over time. Yet it never occured to me to state it as simply as: We first listen and apply ourselves to the Bible, rather than just apply the Bible to ourselves. Excellent.



report abuse
 

Travis Greene

posted October 5, 2009 at 11:54 am


Good thoughts. An additional misstep, I think, is that the “How does this apply to me?” is always thought of individually. The real, and appropriate, question is “What does this mean for us?”
But even that communitarian focus should be framed not around mining the text for orders, but on gathering together around the text as both origin story and imagination fund.



report abuse
 

Barb

posted October 5, 2009 at 12:39 pm


Jeremy, I too agree with you totally.
I’m a lot older than you and I didn’t come to this point of view until at about age 50 I read through the whole Bible cover to cover–under the mentorship of our Pastor. Thst is now my yearly custom.
I have found that when I have a pressing problem–but I get up and read my appointed passage for the day–it may be Jeremiah or who knows where–THEN later, sometimes that very day, the way that passage applies to my situation becomes clear! I love Scot’s waterslide analogy from the Blue Parakeet. This is now how I see my interaction with the Bible.



report abuse
 

Lee

posted October 5, 2009 at 1:02 pm


Thanks for the great post. I agree whole-heartedly. It is a good thing that our youth are being exposed to solid perceptive thinking concerning the Scriptures.



report abuse
 

Craig V.

posted October 5, 2009 at 1:42 pm


One approach that I’ve found helpful is to encourage more rather than less self absorption. The question is what is the self in which we should be absorbed? A shallow self that thinks the world revolves around its shallow interests has sold itself out to being something less not more. The self at its highest is the self before God in community.



report abuse
 

Adam Lehman

posted October 5, 2009 at 1:50 pm


This is what I tell my teenagers:
“You are not the main character of the Bible. The Bible isn’t about you, it is about God. You are a character, just not the main one…”



report abuse
 

Paul

posted October 5, 2009 at 3:04 pm


Spot on!
After posting my entry I read yours.
I could not agree more. We’ve relegated God to a footnote in our own story rather than view Him as the main character and each of us playing a supporting role.



report abuse
 

ChrisB

posted October 5, 2009 at 3:59 pm


Is this really just a matter of terminology?
People want to learn how to live the life Christ desires and deserves. That is (part of) what the Bible is for.
(ASIDE: Oh no, the captchas are back!)



report abuse
 

RJS

posted October 5, 2009 at 7:46 pm


ChrisB,
I don’t think that it is a matter of terminology. I think that it is a real problem, and a symptom of misunderstanding both the nature of the Bible and the Christian life.
We need to read the Bible to become absorbed in God’s story and to understand, so far as possible, where it has been and where it is going. Then we need to get on board with his plan.
Clearly reading the Bible with application to how we are to live. But if we approach each passage looking for application before understanding exactly how it fits in the grand scheme – we will probably get the application wrong.
(And with respect to your Aside – we’ll have to live with the capthca’s for a bit. Big spam attack this morning – see Scot’s comment on the Birthdays post).



report abuse
 

Catherine

posted October 5, 2009 at 9:06 pm


Excellent post! Even our approach to Scripture has become tainted by our narcissistic society. I read or heard somewhere that we need to do exegesis before application – focus on WHAT God says before we can ask what the passage says to me. Thanks.



report abuse
 

Tim Hallman

posted October 5, 2009 at 9:59 pm


A young lady came up to me after the sermon on Sunday clearly frustrated: she was trying to read the Bible but was finding it extremely difficult to get anything out of it. She’s had a terribly difficult life, she’s been coming to our church off and on for a few years, and is now getting really interested in actually becoming a disciple. So she’s started to read her Bible. And she wants to immediately be able to “get something out of it”. I tried to tell her that maybe she should just start at the beginning – Genesis or Matthew, and just read it as story, don’t try to get anything out of it. Just assume it’s a really interesting story, or really fascinating history. Don’t try to pull spiritual meaning out of it – yet. She was surprised by my answer, but a sense of relief. She could do that.



report abuse
 

Kelc

posted October 6, 2009 at 12:29 am


Tim (#28)
As much as I agree with your statement:
“just read it as story, don’t try to get anything out of it. Just assume it’s a really interesting story, or really fascinating history. Don’t try to pull spiritual meaning out of it…”
How do we help people to fully understand to read the Bible like this? Because it seems hard to tell people to read the Bible as a story without going into all the theology and so on? It seems taking this approach would cause a lot of debate and harm because most people do not view the Bible as this.
Any reflections?



report abuse
 

joanne

posted October 6, 2009 at 6:12 am


I have also been intentionally thinking “community” also when seeking to interpret. We are so schooled in interpreting in the frame of “individual” that we miss the community message. Meaning opens up because the scripture is speaking to and forming a new community in Christ. And it is not just me and my personal sin or me and my personal relationship with God but a new community being formed in Christ to reflect his glory.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted October 6, 2009 at 8:49 am


While I do believe that the world has become very self-absorbed, I also believe that we have to approach God’s Word on a personal level first. After all, Jesus was sent here to try to fix us because we had become so deeply involved in our sins that we could no longer hear God’s Word. Even the most intricate piece of machinery will not work if it’s parts are broken. As sinners, we are broken and until we fix ourselves, we cannot go out into the world to teach the Word of God to others as God wants us to. So I believe that our first priority as we approach the Bible for the first time SHOULD be “what can the Bible do for me?” because, in order to spread the Word of God to others, we must first use God’s Word to fix ourselves and our sinful ways. And, Jeremy, you specifically mentioned posturing as they approach the Word of God. Would we expect any sinner who is approaching the Word of God for the first time to do anything other than posture?



report abuse
 

Lisa Robinson

posted October 6, 2009 at 12:13 pm


Jeremy, bravo! I’ve been disturbed about this for some time. Self-focused study also turns the Bible into a magic pill book rather than the instrument through which we learn more about the God we serve. I think the primary lapse is that churches, by and and large, are not instructing WHAT the Bible is, i.e. God’ self-disclosure and HOW it came to be. We only hear that it is God’s word through which we learn about Christian life. Then the Christian life becomes about how I think it should be, and gee let’s find some application in the Bible. I think basic bibliology instruction would revert our attention from self-fulfillment to God fulfillment, and understanding our position better in context of His plan.



report abuse
 

John W Frye

posted October 6, 2009 at 3:41 pm


This is one of the finest, clearest expressions of a current dilemma in USAmerican evangelicalism. Great work, Jeremy! And I agree that it is not just a “youth” problem, but one that permeates the fabric of believing community. The Bible calls us into another culture–the kingdom of God–and we must adjust to it, not accomodate it to us and our ways. It like the arrogance many Europeans feel when American tourists expect their countries to be like the USA. That’s the mindset of many Bible readers—how will this benefit me and fit into my life.
God help us.



report abuse
 

Jeremy Berg

posted October 6, 2009 at 4:40 pm


Thank you all! These comments have been very affirming. I’m glad I’m not alone in this observation regarding how readers/hearers often approach the Word. Now that we have considered the approach of the READER/HEARER, we must consider the approach of the PREACHER/TEACHER. How do we TEACH the Bible in ways that don’t reinforce a self-serving posture that leaves us as the fixed center and God’s Word at our beck and call? How do we open the Scriptures to children, youth and adults in ways that invite them out of their self-defined, self-controlled universe and into God’s larger Story — the new sphere of reality we call ‘The Kingdom of God’?
Where do we start? How do preachers confront this tendency towards a self-oriented approach to Scripture? What preaching styles are most effective in combating this? Do we debate expositional vs. narrative vs. hook/look/book/took? Well, all of that for another day perhaps.
Thanks again for the great feedback and discussion!
Jeremy Berg



report abuse
 

Gary Manning

posted October 7, 2009 at 5:37 am


Another related issue is that many modern Americans have an overly restricted understanding of application. By application, they often mean what they should _do_ after reading the text. By this standard, large portions of Scripture are not applicable, for they do not tell us what to do. One way that I address this in my teaching is to focus more on obedience than application – and obedience is both internal (mental/emotional) and external. Part of “obedience” to Romans 5 (the text my Bible study group looked at this evening) is meditating on the power of righteousness, especially the power of the singular righteous act of Christ.



report abuse
 

Patrick

posted October 9, 2009 at 4:22 pm


Jeremy
just caught this post. great points. If one of evangelicalism’s great strengths is the necessity of personal faith, it can also become its Achilles Heel. I think you’d resonate with Marva Dawn – she echoes what you are saying at the start of a recent book ‘In the Beginning God’ on Genesis. The traditional three pronged approach of ‘What does the passage say?’, ”What does it mean?’ and ‘How does it apply?’ all too easily turns the focus on ‘me’ rather than what the text is saying about God and his purposes for ‘us’ and the world.
blessings



report abuse
 

Bobby Key

posted October 11, 2009 at 10:18 am


I’m not going to say how good you did ..o k you are looking for answers yourself… pastors fail in how to teach people to be victorious in life first repentance and then work at putting God Jehovah’s words to effect in your life as others do ..planting your garden of life …speak his word …the word of God conceived in the heart formed by the tongue is creative power ..that message is whats lost in the pulpit today..I preach the word straight from the Bible rarely do I pick a verse or two ..I usually use the chapter ..or train of thought on the subject..
salvation, baptizing by water and then by fire ( Holy Spirit..God’s presence) for without it you can not understand or teach the word well at all….that is the main reason Christianity is not a force to be reckoned with now at this time..of course children and teens have questions and are confused to some extent and if the pastor can not get through to them then it is the elders part to do so ..
Thank you hope I helped you …



report abuse
 

g

posted October 11, 2009 at 5:27 pm


The hidden dark side of this posture toward God’s Word is that it reveals a deep-seated self-absorption that keeps us at the center of our universe and insists that God and His Word orbit our needs and serve our interests. Do you see a problem with this posture toward God and the text?
It is hard not to feel this way..after all most of us came to the Lord based on some preacher telling us:
God loves YOU, God wants to heal YOU, God wants to save YOU, God has a plan and purpose for YOUR life.
God will save YOU, God will deliver YOU!
The whole proposition was based God centering His entire focus on us.
God so loved the world that he gave his son…he died for YOU..
It appears that the entire focus does make the universe center around us.
Preachers tell us God made US to be in relationship to him. Not the animals, not the angels, US!
We are so special! So why are you surprised that we think we are the center of the universe?
Then we come in based on those promises, thinking it is all about US and then over the years , when a lot of that stuff doesn’t seem to pan out, we are told that it isn’t about us..we are about HIm..kind of like fine print…coming in on one set of guidelines than at some point it is a bait and switch…and now we are to center are lives, hopes and dreams around Him and not expect too much for ourselves…we were told He would heal us..but most of us have watched our loved ones die of cancers and diseases, despite how much we prayed for them and were told that our earnest prayers would heal the sick.
So basically nothing really that was promised comes about for us as we are ever then cajoled to ‘sell out’ to him but without any real promises being fulfilled.



report abuse
 

g

posted October 11, 2009 at 5:54 pm


P.S to the above.
Many evangelical preachers tell us we are the only life in the universe and that the Earth is the one and only place like it God created it for US.
So , again,yes , I guess we are going to think the universe centers around us.



report abuse
 

Julie

posted October 12, 2009 at 8:17 am


Your point is that of the First Commandment: God First, God Central, God Above All. Even the second commandment tells us that The Other should be loved as we are. God First, Other Second, Us in the position of reverence, respect, awe, compassion, humility. Today’s humanity is relearning the lesson that putting ourselves first is selfish, and if Jesus — God made man — was anything, he was self-less, never, ever, ever selfish. God’s peace to you and your readers -



report abuse
 

Sarah

posted October 12, 2009 at 11:55 am


This article came to me in my e-mail. Anything that comes to me in my email is open for my discussion. I do not Hear the Word of God from your article. What is your Unique contribution to the Kingdom of God. There is nothing original in this article. You follow the abomination of desolation that infests the mankind church. I wrote on a dream I had a couple of nights ago. You can read about it at http://tr.im/BxFp. I have had Revelation through dreams since I was 2 years old. What do you do for My Lord? He does not Say, “smile”. He does not Say, “be happy”. He Says, “Follow Me!”
I See your face in the crowd, outside. I will stay with my God behind the Veil. Thank you, El Elyon, for Protecting and Loving Your Children…



report abuse
 

Francesca Duarte

posted October 12, 2009 at 10:02 pm


This is a blog and some statements made by a youth pastor.I’m a Christian adult woman in her 50′s,and,I agree with some of his statements.I’m also a Christian who,on her own outside of church,reads my Bible in spurts,because of my daily schedule.I read as much of my bible as I can when I can,in between other things that I may also be reading.I’m also a speedreader,and,that’s helped to make reading anything a lot more interesting,especially my bible.But,even so,it’s hard for a lot of Christians to have devotional daily readings of any kind,not only because of our schedules,but,because many Christians have bad reading habits!They need to do something to improve their overall reading skills!When I taught myself a speedreading course 3 years ago,it made a big and positive difference for me.Incidentally,all things that we all read in any part of the bible must be read and understood in the context and the time that they’re written in.It’s dangerous to read anything out of its context.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted October 13, 2009 at 5:04 am


You are quite right. We should not be reading the Bible as a new way to live the ‘ME’ generation and its self-centeredness. For Jesus says Love your neighbor AS yourself; a simultaneous act, neither one before the other. People say how can you love others if you don’t love yourself first? Deceptive–You love yourself AS you love others! Self before others equals selfish narcissism and loving others above and before yourself is ‘codependent’(modern term) It is a simultaneous act, much like you can’t keep it(FAith) unless you give it away. Our love should not be one that is to give to get–for our needs are guaranteed if we care for the needs of others. Quite right, listen even to some of our greatest televangelists even now, spouting “ME” generation colloquiolisms as if they are God’s word. Some may reflect His word, but always shine the light of His word on the words of ALL men, even his leaders, lest in the last days we be led astray. The Bible is not specifically a SELF improvement tome, but a guide to serving God above ALL others as well as and especially the self that led to our FAll in the Garden. Meditate on His word and it will be seen.



report abuse
 

Bill

posted October 13, 2009 at 5:13 am


This is a P.S. to “your Name” submission–it was mine but my name was timed out. In addition to what I’ve just stated about Loving self and others AS a simultaneous act I must commend you on your insight for the care of your flock of young people in this misleading period of Christianity “give to get”, “name it and claim it”, among other pat declarations right out of the pop psychology of the 80′s–you have done well to question this trend and may God bless you in helping you continue to guide your youth. I will pray for your continued revelation of His Spirit through His Word. God Bless you and Maranatha, He cometh quickly!



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted October 13, 2009 at 9:33 am


The Bible is the Church’s book. It was given to the Church as a whole, not to the individual believer. It should be read and studied with that in mind. The Holy Spirit guides the Church–not the individual believer–in the correct interpretation of Scripture.
Does this mean that the Bible should only be read by the clergy? Or only in groups? Or that there is no place for individual reading and study? Of course not! That would be silly; but:
1. Our individual reading should be either a preparation for or a follow-up to our reading it with the Church;
2. Or individual reading of the Bible should be supplemented by reading the writings of the great Christian minds of the past–from the Apostolic Fathers, through the Doctors and Scholars of the Midaeval Church, the Reformers, and the major thinkers of the 19th and 20th C.
3. We should share the fruits of our study with our fellow-believers; the Spirit may speak through them, also, to correct, adjust, and expand upon our own conclusions—and through us to them! God’s revelation is experienced in the community of believers.



report abuse
 

Christianity?

posted October 13, 2009 at 10:00 am


I’d like to know how many of you have ever read the Bible from cover to cover? Picking and choosing a few lines of text and building a “study” around that is NOT ok.
I have found that churches are attempting to bend so-called “study groups” to line up with their dogma and there is no real study of the Bible.
There are stern warnings against false churches and ministers who are leading flocks astray.



report abuse
 

Your Name

posted October 13, 2009 at 12:50 pm


Amen! All scripture is GOD-BREATHED and is useful for correcting, rebuking and training in righteousness. Even though it was written by men, the Bible is GOD’s word. Study groups are essential to understanding Gods word without the “me”. There may be times when a certain verse has significance for you, but this is because GOD is speaking to you or has told you that this may part of his plan for you.



report abuse
 

Maggie Blue

posted October 13, 2009 at 6:25 pm


Do you agree that many approach the Bible with an irreverent, self-absorbed posture? Yes, I very much agree, and it’s sad and hurting.
Recently I have been appalled that some people in our church (and elsewhere) are saying that the Bible says that Obama is ‘the anti-Christ.’ They are quoting and misquoting parts of Revelation and John I – going on and on and on. I couldn’t believe my ears. One of these is my Bible study teacher. I don’t want to go back to class because of this. She also is against looking things up on the Internet.



report abuse
 

Gina

posted October 14, 2009 at 11:00 am


I have never really thought about it before. I don’t study the Bible much anymore, but when I did, I always had a sense of being let down. Maybe this is why. Deep down I was just looking for answers to my own problems and not really seeking God. I just wanted a way out of my own pain and suffering. Thank you for the personal insight.



report abuse
 

Diana

posted October 15, 2009 at 10:17 am


AMEN, Brother.



report abuse
 

Cgctimes

posted October 16, 2009 at 8:52 am


There are too many people who come to Word of God with preconceived notions of how God is supposed to address the needs within their lives rather than listening to what God is saying. I believe if we spend time to listen to what God is saying, the answer to the issues of our heart will be given. Sometimes, the answer is already with our hearts, mind and spirit and will only be revealed when we take time to listen to what He’s saying. As we listen even to a word that doesn’t seem germane to our issue, His power is able to answer our needs. I remember going to church one Sunday and I had an appointment to see the pastor after the morning service; however, after he finished preaching that morning, I didn’t need to see him because God took care of the issue during the preaching of the message. It wasn’t that my pastor spoke directly to what was going in my life but it was the fact that I listened to what God was saying that day and He gave me the power to grapple with my struggle.



report abuse
 

Andelys

posted October 24, 2009 at 4:40 am


I completely agree. Actually, I do it all the time. Thank you so much for making me realize it and pray for me that I can get the big picture. Thank you.



report abuse
 

Anonymous

posted October 26, 2009 at 8:18 am


I agree with Mr. Berg. My husband is a minister and he always brings this up especially about certain verses that people hone in on. He’ll ask, “did you read the verses surrounding that verse to get the full context?” I believe, as mentioned, when you read the Word you need to be open to God. His answer may not come directly from what you’ve read but because you are open to Him, your answer will come regardless. Open your heart when you open His Word.



report abuse
 

Emmanuel Viray

posted October 26, 2009 at 4:35 pm


I agree with the article but take issue with saying basically that our preoccupations could be petty. “Petty” preoccupations have a spiritual component to them. A teenager who feels bad that nobody likes him could be struggling with his self-image or just plain unfriendly. Either care, his concern is related to a deeper issue. The biblical narrative, as a whole, tells him that he is worthy in God’s sight, and also that he must always remember love and faithfulness. A good reputation is something that God wants for us.
Set your sights on things above could mean theological truths- Lordship of Christ, Our creation in God’s image, etc. Things below could refer to what the world looks at when it encounters reality.



report abuse
 

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.

Share this story


About Beliefnet

Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness. More about Beliefnet.

Help

Media Kit

Subscribe

Legal

Copyright © Beliefnet, Inc. and/or its licensors. All rights reserved. Use of this site is subject to Terms of Service and to our Privacy Policy. Constructed by Beliefnet.

Advertisement

Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.