Jesus Creed

Jesus Creed

Journeys

posted by Scot McKnight | 11:41am Saturday March 20, 2010

Hunter.jpgI’ve been thinking of journeys recently. The last two days I sat in sessions at the Wheaton gathering on Evangelicals and the Early Church and heard a number journeys from a conservative evangelical past to a confessional evangelicalism or to Anglicanism or who dipped mightily into the early fathers, and I know plenty of stories of those who have walked across the Tiber or ended up in Constantinople by converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Which brings me to a new book, a story of a journey, and its the memoir-ish journey of Todd Hunter, Giving Church Another Chance: Finding New Meaning in Spiritual Practices
.
Whose journey is your favorite journey to read or tell?
Todd has danced longest with the Vineyard Church, a strong and vibrant and growing and adjusting charismatic denomination. But along the line he wasn’t satisifed, he knew it and he backed down and ended up in a house church. Then he appeared as the President of Alpha USA, a big time evangelistic organization. But his journey wasn’t over, and the next thing Todd was probing the Anglican Church, and he entered the Anglican Mission in America (AMiA) and is now a bishop.
What impresses me about this book, and I confess that I wrote the Foreword, is it’s focus on ecclesial practices and how ecclesial practices form us. Most of the “disciplines” of spiritual formation are about the individual, and sometimes it goes way over the top to enter into the land of the hyper-individualistic. We need someone to direct us toward the ecclesial disciplines that form us, and the lead us in our ecclesial journey:
Like lectionaries and eucharist and confession and architecture and sermons and offerings, which is what Todd does. I like this book. 
I will be talking about this book from another angle tomorrow, but for today I want to focus on this word “journey.”


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Ted M. Gossard

posted March 20, 2010 at 1:09 pm


Quite interesting. My journey is a mini-version of his, of course all are unique. Raised Mennonite, went kind of Baptistic/Keswick into a sect, then Missionary (like the Christian & Missionary Alliance), fundamentalist Baptist, almost five point Calvinist Baptist, evangelical, considered considering Roman Catholicism, Vineyard and the charismatic side, and now the Evangelical Covenant Church denomination. But also theologically coming back full circle to my Mennonite roots while picking up much I consider valuable along the way. Looking back I think we would have been wise remaining with the Missionary denomination, though I’m oh so thankful for what I picked up after that. Or to have remained with the Mennonites at the beginning of my new life in Christ as a last teenager, though that turns topsy=turvey just where my life would have gone. Who knows?
I do feel settled now, but it took me some time to get there. During our time early in Vineyard (possibly prior, though I don’t think so, and certainly reinforced at least through
Vineyard) and through their influence, N.T. Wright’s “The Challenge of Jesus” was a turning point for me, then to find Scot McKnight blogging after loving his two commentaries in the NIV Application series, and getting through a few bumps early on with regard to the emerging ride……
Todd’s book does look interesting, and I remember he was close to John Wimber, and had some close association with Dallas Willard. I’ve appreciated what I’ve read from him. I think it’s ideal and good to do what Eugene Peterson suggests and largely did (in his case leaving his Pentecostal upbringing and remaining in Presbyterian U.S.A.): be committed to one denomination, of course remaining.
But there are times for good reasons when one can no longer do that. But that would have been my preference. (I’m rather “old-school” I guess, talking about all these denominations!)



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Steve S

posted March 20, 2010 at 1:17 pm


I don’t know anything specific about Mr Hunter, and this isn’t really about him anyways…
But there just seems something too convenient about finding your flavor of the month (or year, or decade) when it comes to what the NT describes in terms of intimate union. It seems like the last thing people need is yet another reason to abandon relationships for greener grass.
To date, I only know of one pastor who has received Christians from another church with the words, “what are you doing here?”
“You need to go back where you came from and work it out with those people.”
Shouldn’t there be more people saying that?



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Ted M. Gossard

posted March 20, 2010 at 1:41 pm


Yes Steve. Good point. I knew of one pastor I think who did that. And this reminds me of a similar point, or related, which Bonhoeffer makes in “Life Together.” To find some sort of idealized Christian community amounts to departing from Christ.



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beckyr

posted March 20, 2010 at 2:11 pm


anne lamott



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Scot McKnight

posted March 20, 2010 at 2:27 pm


beckyr,
I’m not sure I’d call that a “journey” but a wild and crazy ride!



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Michael Spencer Harmon

posted March 20, 2010 at 2:43 pm


Love it! I’ve been “journeying” alongside the Anglican Church for quite awhile now; the liturgy and yet varying allowance for convictions definitely adds to my spiritual experience of Christ. Good show!



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andrew hall

posted March 20, 2010 at 2:56 pm


I started my journey 27 years ago in a evangelical church that morphed into a emerging expression. I then moved into a pentecostal church and helped them to emerge into a similar state.
I now find myself “coming home” in the angilcan movement in england, just weeks away from attending a bishops’ panel for selection to become an ordinand.
Journey is key and journeying with Christ is essential.



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Jim Martin

posted March 20, 2010 at 4:58 pm


Scot– Very interesting. In particular, I am interested his discussion and experience “. . .on ecclesial practices and how ecclesial practices form us.” As valuable as these individual disciplines and practices have been for so many of us, I am really interested in understanding better how the practices of the church can shape a church. While I am aware of some of these practices/disciplines, I am interested in his own experience with this.



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Pat

posted March 20, 2010 at 7:58 pm


It is refreshing to hear of people on a journey and to know that I’m not alone. Now, if only we in the Church could embrace one another’s journey, rather than condemning them as heretical, backslidden, etc. God may call some to the same church for 30 years and He may call others to a different journey that takes them to not only several churches but several denominations, all while they increasingly grow in their faith and make great contributions to His bride. I know that the above behavior could be described as church-hopping, and for some that is true, but not for everyone. Before we just to conclusions about people, let’s get to know them first and hear their story. We may just be surprised.



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JoanieD

posted March 20, 2010 at 8:56 pm


To beckyr in #4: I loved Anne Lamott’s book, Grace Eventually. I will have to read more of her books. She is one honest person, I would say.
To Steve S in #2 who said more pastors need to advise people who church hop with: “You need to go back where you came from and work it out with those people.” That SOUNDS good, Steve, but there are some people who are coming out of places that are truly abusive and the best thing for them to do is leave. Likely, that is the exception. (Or maybe I should say “hopefully.”) Or, the place they come from may have a belief system that is so opposed to what the person believes that the person cannot, in good conscience, stay with that congregation/denomination/whatever you want to call it. If they are leaving over petty things, then yes, the pastor is right to recommend they work things out. Families will have squabbles but families should not break up over squabbles, but families sometimes need to break up if the environment is a toxic or deadly one.



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