Crystal Methodists

Pity should strike even those of us who are vindicated by this development. Hypocrite, false shepherd, and sinner though he may be; Ted Haggard is a man who is now paying the price for his sin. He is walking in shame. Although he may deserve it, he should also stand as a reminder to us all of what we, in turn deserve without the grace of God. While I am not advocating “forgive and forget”, I do feel pity for his family. I pray that this occasion would break his heart, and bring him close to a God who will forgive any sin, as long as the sinner would sincerely repent.It is sincerity that God wants. Likewise, it is the false holiness of religious hypocrasy that God detests. In the end, justice will be served to all, and no one will be able to deny it.

Hi David, I am a graduate student of Public Administration at Baruch College in NYC, and currently writing a paper on the Faith Based initiatives as anti- poverty programming.I have read about you since the release of your book (congratulations, btw) and was wondering if i could ask you a few specific questions for my research. Thanks so much for getting back to me when time permits. All the best, Mira Handman

Kevin, well said. If Mr. Kuo would only read your comment.

It’s so nice to see fundamentalists behaving the same way with Haggart as they did with Clinton. Yes, fundamentalists had only the most encouraging things to say about Clinton during that sex scandal.

Tenoch, believe it or not, there were fundamentalists and Christians of all persuasions saying the same things about Mr. Clinton. Unfortunately, Mr. Clinton didn’t then nor has he ever taken responsibility for his actions. Perhaps if he had issued a statement such as this, things would have been different: “I am guilty of sexual immorality, I am a deceiver and a liar. There is a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark and I’ve been warring against it my entire adult life”, Haggard said in a letter that was read to his New Life Church in Colorado Springs by a church overseer during a Sunday morning service.

bigjolly, Nice try at rewritting history, but it doesn’t work for those who remember Clinton apologizing and publicly seeking forgiveness.Attempting to decieve for the sake of justifying blatant hypocrisy?Why didn’t Jesus ever think to do that, bigjolly?

Both Haggard and Clinton eventually confessed, but only after they painted themselves in a corner through their lies and denials. Remember, Tenoch, it was Clinton who said “It depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is.” and remember also when he looked into the televized eye of the people he was elected to represent and said, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”.I think a good example of comparison in this matter would be to compare this with the Jeff Gannon white house scandal of two years ago…but of course that scandal has been removed from the public eye with no confession, and no exposure.Maybe we just shouldn’t compare, but instead analyze this matter on it’s own merit.

Maybe we shouldn’t analyze OR compare, but rather mourn for sin as Jesus did, and, like Haggard asked in his letter, “rise to the challenge and demonstrate the incredible grace that is available to all of us.”

Tenoch, it is a fact that there were multiple thousands of Christians praying for President Clinton during his fall from grace. History is written and cannot be undone and I certainly am not capable of being deceptive enough to undo it. I invite you to read President Clinton’s apology here: http://www.zpub.com/un/un-bc-sp1.htmlAs I said, if he had issued a simple statement such as Mr. Haggard did, his life would have been so much less complicated. But in the end, as Kevin Young and Amy said, we shouldn’t compare, just grieve with the rest of the Church over this and pray for all involved.

Is anyone now willing to consider that homosexuality is not something that can be repressed out of existence? That perhaps it is not a ‘choice’. Do you choose what attracts you, what results in feelings of sexual attraction? It appears that Ted Haggard struggled with his homosexuality and that denial and repression may have only contributed to his attraction to it. It would not be the first time that being forbidden and repressed added spice and fire to latent urgings. If Ted were reading this, I would tell him that he has to deeply explore his psyche, to exercise brutal personal honesty, but devoid of judgment. If he can do this, he may uncover a clearer picture of himself, and from that make better choices which will cause less difficulty to himself and others. Of course his Christianity cannot be removed from this process, and it should not. He will, however, have to look deeply into what are the foundation stones of faith, and be willing to walk into the desert, to drop his predispositions and judgments, to in short seek God alone, without encumbrance, and wait patiently. This is no easy task. It is a very, very difficult one. It is however the surest way. St. John of the Cross is one of the prime examples for his consideration. He would do well to read him.

Zero, that is a very good post. I must admit that I don’t have a clue when it comes to this subject. If a person is not somehow predisposed to be attracted to a person of the same sex, why on earth would you be? Nothing about that makes sense to me. In other words, I just don’t get why a man is attracted to another man. It isn’t, to me, like any other temptation at all. OTOH, the Bible clearly states that this type of behavior is against the wishes of the Creator. So, I remain confused but as in all other things in life, MUST be in line with the word of Truth that is in the Bible.

Zero, you make a very good point, as do you bigjolly. For the record, I believe homosexuality is something created in the individual. It is not a choice, as much as it is a predisposition. I would also like to point out a phrase used by Paul “unnatural affection” could very well refer to closeted homosexuals like Ted Haggard who force themselves to marry and propagate in order to appear “normal”. We must admit that the greatest victim of this incident would be Ted’s wife. And Ted himself must have endured years of torment through living a lie.In the Old testement we find two examples that could very well be the homosexual relations of godly people. David and Johnathan (2 Samual 1:26) has risen many eyebrows, as well as Ruth and Naiomi (Ruth 1:14-17). Now take those examples with a grain of salt, the matter boils down to this: Do you believe God is omnipotent? (I do) and if He is omnipotent, could he then be unable to prevent men and animals from being attracted to members of their same sex? Statistically, 1 in 10 newborn infants will be attracted to members of the same sex. This is not a perversion of nature, but rather the persecution of a misunderstood minority by an overzealous religious institution. I believe the most telling evidence in this matter is what Jesus says about homosexuality…which is absolutely nothing! If you are a Christian and believe in John chapter 1, how can you recconcile your persecution as godly behavior?

If they are the Overseers, shouldn’t they have seen this coming? What part of keeping watch over Haggard and his ministry didn’t they get? The seeing over part, I guess. What’s really sad about this is how many people around Haggard allowed him to spiral out of control this way. I agree with David; be careful what you ask God for, God just might give it to you.