The phrase that comes to mind is “the God that failed.” Not that God failed, but that the “Jesus loves GOP-led US” view seems to be running out of steam. Where will all this lead? This disenchantment– will it lead to disengagement by evangelicals? To a GOP without evangelicals, or without economic conservatives? To a new Great Awakening? It seems like a lot of bedrock assumptions of the past 15 years are up for grabs right now. President Bush was right, I guess, that he’s a uniter, not a divider. 90% of the world, and 70% of the US, disapprove of him.

There are serious questions of idolatry and hero-worship. The language is even the same as theological fights, except the names are changed. Just look at Hugh Hewitt’s web site. The Orthodox are the Bush supporters, the Heretics are those who oppose the war. As I say, I think there is idolatry going on.

Taking these two comments as “evidence” that evangelicals are turning against the war/Bush’s running of it or are for “redeployment” is pretty thin stuff.

I’m truly encouraged by the fact that so many Evangelicals are finally recognizing the lies that led us into our current dire situation in Iraq. Forgive me if I can’t shake a deep sense of frustration, however, as I knew six years ago that we were being lied to. I and millions like me *knew* that thousands of our young people and thousands of Iraquis would die for no reason, and nobody would listen to us. Read Machiavelli’s “The Prince,” and look at how many of his recommended strategies are currently in common use in Washington. Never forget that many supposedly religious politicians are merely paying lip-service to your faith in an attempt to turn your eyes away from their weaknesses and self-serving intentions. Faith and healthy skepticism can live hand-in-hand, as David has demonstrated so beautifully.

I’m not a regular church goer but a believer. On Sept. 12 2001, I was, like most everyone, trying to piece together what it all means and what I could do to help. I went to the nearest church (ARP), walked into the sanctuary (empty), prayed a while, put a Fifty on the altar, and left. The close ties between the evangelicals and this administration since then (and before then) have convinced me that that wouldn’t be what I’d do if it happened again today. I haven’t lost faith, just faith in the church. Hopefully they’re learning to stay out of politics…it’ll take awhile to demonstrate to me that that’s the case.

David, The leftist plants on CBN message boatds are an evil joke. Until YOU come out plainly about the evil that IS the Left, you look silly in your propping up of it.

Umm, Pat Robertson and Hugo Chavez????? Maybe Robertson is a prophet. A darn good guesser at the least.

The turning point was Katrina. When my parents, strong evangelicals, saw those people on that bridge dying in the sun because the feckless Bush administration had no equipment, money, resources or will to save them while the cameras rolled and we were all watching, that’s when they realized this administration was nothing but hot air and helplessness. Where was the National Guard? Getting shot at in Iraq.

After reading a few pages, I grew tired of the same rants and the throwing around of Bible verses (or parts of) that make people feel righteous and prove that “they” are right and “you” are wrong. This just doesn’t happen for the Right vs Left, it happens for the Right vs the Right. I support the armed forces and I support the office of the President as Commander in Chief however the Iraq plan was flawed from Day 1 and Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld have only made it worse. We went in ill prepared and unfortunately the incompetence of the civilian leaders have made our armed forces look bad. Bush’s foreign policy in Iraq is about as incompetent as Clinton’s policy in Somalia.Since we are there, lets do it right and send MORE (200,000) troops to give the one’s there some more support and accomplish the task at hand. We broke it, we bought it, we must fix it. My biggest problem is that if you disagree with the Bush/Cheney plan, you are labeled as a Leftist or Defeatist. What ever happened to having an opinion or differing viewpoint? What ever happened to thinking for yourself rather than just blindly believing some talking points from either the Left or the Right? Why do evangelical Christians “worship” or idolize President Bush?

“Since we are there, lets do it right and send MORE (200,000) troops to give the one’s there some more support and accomplish the task at hand. We broke it, we bought it, we must fix it.” Thank you for this. I thought I was the only person in the country who felt this way.

Tim wrote: “Taking these two comments as “evidence” that evangelicals are turning against the war/Bush’s running of it or are for “redeployment” is pretty thin stuff.” But then again, David Kuo originally wrote: “go and see for yourself it is extraordinary because these aren’t isolated examples.” Next… Donny wrote: “The leftist plants on CBN message boatds are an evil joke.” So when someone disagrees with the president using a well thought out, reasonable argument, they’re a leftist plant? 70% of Americans disagree with this president. That’s a lot of “leftists”. I agree with Mr. Kuo that there is a bit of idolatry going on, and a great example are all these references to the president as the Commander in Chief. He is. Of the armed forces, not of the citizens. It’s amazing how many issues this administration trumpets as unquestionable policy are exactly the issues our founding fathers fashioned our Constitution in order to specifically avoid.

Donny, For the last several weeks I have read your posts and felt sorry for you. Your theory that evil is the left is simply beyond the pale. Evil exists – you might recall that the word “Satan” means the accusor. The accusing energy that we use with one another is is a sort of satanic energy. Somehow, the only way we can heal the world is to go beyond such language and such accusations. I am sure that at some level that is what you believe. But it comes across as something not of Christ. While we accuse the “other” whether it is the left or the right or those who call themselves centrists – the need to accuse is the thing that keeps us from Christ. I suppose I wish there was a way to simply eliminate such posts, but there is not. And when I read them, I understand why our world is violent in the name of God.

I don’t think anyone could have ever imagined this kind of revolt against the president from those who were his most ardent and strident supporters. A lot of people did and have been doing so for a couple of years. Conservatives hate failures. Now Bush is seen to be a failure they will call him a liberal. They will deny ever supporting him. Conservatism never fails, it is only failed. All this is quite predictable.

Thinker: Without bothering to comment further on a certain poster, I wish to commend you for your 01.26.07 – 10:44 am post. Thank you.

Thinker, Pacific 231 I agree. Generally I skip “those” posts. They are insulting, non-productive,and put a mean face on Christ, at least to those who don’t know any better. If Donny is for real, he is the most miserable “christian” on the planet. He could be a fake, a plant whose only objective is to divert discussion. In any event, we can only pray that he finds his way to God’s love and finds it more enjoyable than condemning everyone else.

I agree with David that there is a seismic shift in support for President Bush. Although I do not agree with all of Nancy Pelosi’s positions, her characterization of seeing the Emporer with no clothes is an apt one. Enough courageous citizens (from both parties and independents) saw through the hype and spin and enabled most of us to clearly see his folly. Just because the President and his spin team says something is true e.g. we are winning, does not make it so. I also like the Wizard of Oz analogy. I think the Libby case will pull back the curtain further, and we will see the real motives and ambitions of the President and those closest to him. I have read that a well-known historian has rated poor-performing presidents by how long it takes to correct their mistakes. I have been reading about Harding, Grant, and Buchanon. At a first comparison, they do look so bad now. History will determine how long it will take to correct this President’s foolish mistakes. What truly bothers me is that he has tried to use his positon as a Christian “witness”; however, I am wary of being scammed. Obviously, I do not know the nature of his faith, although he has claimed he could look into Putin’s soul and declare him a good man. Moreover, for someone who continously talked about being “humbled” to be president when he took office, he has has not behaved that way. Instead of seeing his position as a trust given to him by God (two very close elections), he has claimed he has “earned the capital” to do whatever he wants (as he declared after the 2004 election). Humbled indeed. He is our president for two more years, so I still pray for him. Perhaps that is the most important thing we all can do. Paul of Potomac