Heaven bound: Angelina Jolie or Jim Dobson or me?

I guess the idea of religion as "fire insurance" has never quite clicked with me. That life is a gift - in my language, a sacrament, a sign of God's grace and presence- was somehow in me from an early early age. I know I don't do enough for the suffering, the poor of the world, but I also know that for some reason, I cannot see anyone excluded from the grace and forgiveness of God. It is not my job to divide the wheat and the chaff. But it is my human task to see all of it - as holy, beloved, created by God. Whenever we find ourselves righteously going after anyone - piling the sins of the people on some poor and unattractive scapegoat, I recall Jesus. I agree that Angelina seems to have gone beyond many of us and with her celebrity and glamour is able to teach us about caring for others. Yet some would dismiss her completely because of what is considered immoral behavior. I see her as holy as anyone else who loves God's creatures. And she has much to teach us. Dobson, all I hear is a strident voice calling people out as not worthy of love. And perhaps I must listen with less judgement and more compassion. I think we are all on a path to holiness - is that heaven? And that path is not the same for anyone. David, you are raising a young family and dealing with health issues. You are calling out the powerful and some will hear. But it is only a moment on the path to God. I'm not sure heaven is the goal - I think it is the reality of God. I believe that we are created out of love and therefore these souls of ours are what God sees and what God molds. Such a love does not end and that - perhaps is heaven. Dobson will learn as will Angeline as will all of us what it is to be compassionate and holy in this world and the next. I am not a universalist - but I think God is much bigger and more loving than we are and we have a hard time imagining the immensity of that love.

This question came up recently in a very emotionally loaded conversation. My mother in the hospital dying of cancer. My aunt, my cousin and I were in the adjacent hotel taking a breather from sitting with my mother. Mom and I are the only professed Christians in our family. The spiritual beliefs of the rest of the family are far and wide. This particular aunt is questioning her spiritual beliefs. This particular cousin is an athiestic lesbian. The question came up when they asked me why mother did not believe she would see her parents in heaven. (I should mention that I'm an only child, mom was a single parent and these are the TWO closest family members that I have). My mother is dying and I'm supposed to discuss with my lesbian cousin (who's love and support I need now more than ever)who gets into heaven and why...
The response I came up with was this: The fundamental problem here is one of vocabulary. When 'most' people talk of heaven, they are talking of the place that 'good' people go when they die. In their minds, if you don't go to heaven, then you must be BAD! When a Christian talks about heaven, they are talking about the Kingdom of God (perhaps House of God). Entry into the Kingdom of God is not based on the merit of the person, but on their relationship with God. A wedding feast is an often used metaphor. Angelina Jolie is a great person, but she won't be at my wedding or reception. Several of the people that will be there are not nearly as 'deserving' as Angie, but they are my friends and family and she is not.

isaiah 64:6 seems to say that people have fallen into unbeleif and disobedience so their works are like filthy rags to God. so, i would say if you are not a believer in Jesus that your works (no matter how good they seem) are like filthy rags to God. Also, no man is saved by works lest any man should boast. i think we get into heaven only by believing in Jesus and we are rewarded for our works (or lack thereof) once we get into heaven. i think being a christian (through grace) causes us to want to do good works. Peace.

David: You are really on a roll. This is the second post in two days that I have linked to on my blog. A great post. I am amazed that too few Christains take Mathew 25 to heart. there are one billion people in the world who live in extreme poverty--living on less than $1 per day. I ask my self each day--what would Jesus think of what I have done to help the least of these.

Actually, I'd like to test another exegesis more consistent with salvation by grace through faith. The passage can also be read in reverse, that a trait of the righteous is to do to the least of these as they would for Jesus. That those who love Him, will look for and find and help criminals, the hungry, the naked. I believe this passage as well, but I don't see it as a to-do list as much as a means for Jesus to communicate that to follow Him isn't just to praise his name but to be compassionate toward everyone, especially those most of us would rather not even know. Did that make a bit of sense?

What about people who act out of compassion because that is the only manner in which they can act? Angelina could never be considered Christian, yet she does all those things that Jesus asks us to do. Gandhi - a recent survey asked if he was in heaven. Two slick ministers were almost joyful as they made sure the questioner understood that Gandhi was not a Christian, and therefore is in hell. Both have huge fancy churches. A priest friend was surprised by the question and said something like , "if he's not, there's not much chance for me." Gandhi remained a Hindu all his life, but often consciously imitated Jesus. Anytime someone talks about who is in hell and who isn't, I just want to - well - puke. Sorry, for the adolescent reference, but really..... We can have no opinion on that one. I believe there is a hell, but I really don't know that anyone is there. I pray there isn't. As a Catholic, I believe in purgatory - it is never to late to repent and ask forgiveness. Never. And perhaps only in looking at our lives with the lens of love can we really see the effects of our unloving acts. A man - absolutely without hope - shot up our local mall on Sunday. I pray that he has met love in death when he could not recognize it in life.

About the 'wedding feast'. Ironically, the idea that only the family attends is exactly the opposite message of that parable. If you recall, the invited guests decided not to show up. The host ended up pulling in beggars from the street as guests.
Kind of goes contrary to that 'exclusive club' vision, doesn't it? 1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,
2" The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
3"And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
4"Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
5"But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
6and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
7"But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
8"Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9'Go therefore to (E)the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
10"Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

Ah that orthodoxy thing. See, I think Angelina does what she does out of a genuinely compassionate heart. Amazing thing when you see one. The motives are not appearing righteous (actually that's kind of a male stand there). Since she has been a little girl she has done whatever she has done for others because she had to - it was her only choice in a heart created to care for others. Does that mean her heart was transformed by Jesus? I would say so - just not in the prescribed and orthodox manner. Orthodoxy is a template and although valuable in maintaining moral and theological boundaries, it is not the end place of goodness. Good works sometimes have no self absorbed reason for being. Sometimes the people who do such things are simply - good. Take a look at Fred Rogers, Brother Roger of Taize and others. These people were transformed by human events to be the ultimately compassionat person that we are called to be. I want to be like that and so I imitate their lives. Their lives are imitations of Christ. So that is what we all do. We find someone - who tells us more about Jesus than anyone we can see in our world and we try to be like them. Angelina may not know that is what she models, but it is - at least as far as compassion goes. It is the reason Christians need church - how do we do this thing that Jesus asks us to do. How do we become this person he asks us to be. Heck, I don't know, but I see a bit in this person or that person and together we are "the Body of Christ" for a moment in God's time. I have students who are so good, so passionate, so empathetic and sometimes they connect all of it with Jesus and realize that he is the transforming force in all of this. I once heard that finding Christ is like getting a virus - you have antibodies that just don't go away and they effect everyone you meet whether you know it or not and those people are infected with the virus and may not even be able to name it as Jesus, but know that something is changed and that it is good.

And Donny where exactly did Peter, James, John, Jude, Paul and Jesus focus on the alleged sins of homosexuality? 6 passages out of the Bible (an enormous book) constitutes a full Christian agenda against homosexual marriage? This became the focus of Christendom HOW? Dare I ask WHY? You ignore other possible explanations and interpretations of those Scriptures because why? You can't accept that might be a cultural bias because why? I know-YOU just don't like gay people and you find that affirmed in a simplistic, literalistic reading of your Bible. At least have the you-know what to admit Donny-your conservative "Christian" case against homosexuals is a crock.

An interesting exchange of ideas. I'll add a few of mine. Ms Jolie has no obligation to discuss her religious beliefs publicly, but her actions suggest she could very well be a follower of Christ. Some will find it easy to brand her s "sinner", but aren't we all. When the Bible speaks of belief in Christ as the way to salvation, it is much more than just an acknowledgement that Christ was who He said He was. It is to adopt His ways as our ways, even though we do so imperfectly. I think that is essentially what is meant by being "born again". I think the desire to do good, to help others is more of a conscious choice than an inborn tendency.Sometimes it just looks inborn when parents do a really good and early job of training their offspring in that direction. Most of us will never have the resources to do good on the scale of someone like Angelina, but we can all bloom where we're planted. It's not always about money. Sometimes it's just someone who needs encouragement, a ride somewhere, attention,etc. It's not just the poor who are needy. As for who gets into heaven, seems to me God would select on the basis of who He wants to share eternity with. I would choose those who have been kind, generous, funny, creative, passionate about Him. Why would He select those who rejected His clearly expressed ways for us, those who are spiteful and mean, those who turn truth upside down to serve thier own desires, those who pretend to love Him but live by their own rules. And I suspect He doesn't care a whit about whether we have the right theology or if and where we go to church on Sunday.

Dear David, Have been watching your blog with great interest since you announced you were going to stop "pulling your punches." And your columns have definitely been more "alive" since then. They've been entertaining and provocative. Keep up the good work!
Your quote of Matthew 25: 31-46 was right on target. Most of the churches I grew up in tried to "spiritualize" that passage and claim it didn't really mean what it said, at least not that it meant actually helping the poor.
You're probably also familiar with Ezekiel 16: 48-50, where God said the sins he destroyed Sodom for were "pride, laziness, and too much food, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door" (plus idolatry). And maybe with Amos 6:1-7, which pronounces God's judgment on Jerusalem and Samaria for being self-indulgence while "caring nothing at all that your brothers need your help."
For a look at many of the reasons the Bible says we should love our neighbors, the blessings he promises when we do, the surprising names he calls us when we don't, the curses he pronounces when we don't, and other reasons why we should love and help them, see chapter 2 ("Is Loving Our Neighbors" Important?) of my manuscript, "Activating the Forgotten Commandment, at www.sparkleofnature.com. Should be some good ammunition in there for you. Pete.

"Like Donny points out, no one in the new testament comes close to approving same-sex behaviors or any other sexual depravity. They stick to the sexual morality of Jesus and the Israelites before him, that appropriate sex is a man and woman in marriage thing." Of course, the number of women in that marriage is left up to the husband to determine. I mean, after all,David himself had three wives when he defeated Saul and became King. And then God gave him all of Saul's wives (which, according to Deuteronomy he was never supposed to have in the first place). So maybe the Mormons have it right after all on marriage...at least according to the Biblical model.

"There are far, far, more passages opposing what we call homosexality today, than six" What are these other passages?

It's really hard for me to think this woman will ever get to heaven.
The children she adopts just happen to coincide with her latest movie pr release. She was having sex with a married man, who left his wife for her.
She constantly lies. She calls the press for everything, and radaronline checked out some of her "charity gifts" and found out they were bogus. Nothing is real about her, except her prison tattoos.

I too don't believe in hell. I too have a child and cannot imagine any action that they can do, even if one child were to murder another of my own child, which would want me to send the murdering child into unending, unredeemable hell. No way.
I can imagine, that in the worst circumstance of all - in an circumstance where one child of mine, murders another child of mine, brutally and horribly, that I would only think, where have I gone wrong? If I could only have another chance. If I could only give both my children another chance. And regret that I do not have that power. So, if I were to believe in a loving God, I must believe in a God that will love His children as much as I love mine. And I must believe that God will find a way to ensure that all his children will end up safe and in happiness with him. And if I were to believe in a God as a supreme power, then I must believe that God is not hostage to word games which may be played by reading the bible.
The essence of an infinite, loving, all powerful God cannot be distilled a bunch of words, translated several times and open to any manner of interpretation. I believe that any interpretation of the bible that conflicts with the essense of god's infinite and great love, cannot be the correct meaning.
And yes, if I must choose a view that somehow, the evil must be punished, then I'd rather believe that God sends them back to earth to suffer the same mistakes till they learn and move on. Reincarnation, anyone??? As for Ms Jolie's alleged adultery ... Jesus said, of a woman caught inflagrante delicto, "judge not". In Ms Jolie's case, there is even more reason not to judge, or should you seek to judge, to reach a finding of NOT GUILTY. After all, there is no evidence. No one in this wretched triangle, not even the ex wife (and her best friends), believes adultery took place.

While it is certain that "faith without works is dead", it's equally certain that works without faith are dead.
There's a basic backdrop we have to keep in mind when we interpret anything going on in the world -- that anyone who is in sin (which, is everyone, of course), is an enemy of God. We are against him while we are not in the condition of not having *believed* that Jesus is the Son of God, slain for the sin of the world, and while we have not repented of our sin and turned towards the good works *out of thankful faith to our God, who saves*. This is Satan's great ploy: that he tries to convince the world that the deeds that are *coincidental* with God's good works are from God. That is, our enemy -- who ranges like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may kill and destroy -- wants to convince us of either fallacy: that we can believe without *active work* and that is sufficient to please God; or that working good works without *explicit faith* is sufficient to please God. In short, God does not require good works from us (as though he needed anything from us), nor is he "satisfied" by a confession of faith. Instead, what he wants is that we accomplish His good will on this earth *out of gratitude for, and modeled after, his saving grace and work for us*.
I don't follow celebrities, so I don't really know anything about Angelina Jolie (except that she adopted some kid or something), but if she has not seen herself in the bright light of the Truth of God as a wretched sinner slated for destruction, and if she has not seen the goodness of God as he demonstrated his love for us, and if she has not felt the exceeding glad lightness that comes when the weight of the knowledge of one's sin is lifted, then no amount of good works are pleasing to God. They must be *out of a thankful heart* that is grateful to God for salvation from Jesus.

you can not get into heaven by doing good works only and you are not suppose to brag about them. One should be humble. You needed to accept God as your personal savior, have apersonal relationship with Him and study his word on a daily basis!!! God is the number one person in a chritstian's life. You honor him daily. I feel sorryi for those of you who do not understand this. It's all about God. He is our creator. Give Him glory not people like Angelian jolie. Jim Dobson is a far better Christian than she is and he doesn't brag about his works.