There’s another important meaning. The day when the Church could be defined nationally or ethnically or culturally seems to be ending. “Christendom” used to be a geographical designation. Today it is, as it should always have been, a reference to those who follow Jesus. We can hope, and I do pray, that this will mean the end of Christianity as a tribe to be levered on top of other tribes and the start of a humbler faith centered on the Lamb and in the sinner.OK, Donny, lemme have it.

David, Barry Lynn also has some interesting and insightful thoughts about the new Christian conversation. I was wondering what your thoughts were about his comment on Larry King Live a few nights ago: people don’t want their politicians acting like they’re resolving these issues on the basis even of the Holy Scripture, which 80 percent of Americans claim is their holy scripture. They want reason, God given or otherwise, to play a role in deciding the most contentious issues of our time. I’d be happy with just a few sentences in response.. I know you’re busy, thanks.

Wake up and smell the coffee David. The Holy Spirit is growing the Church always.The Global South Church, is nothing more than the basic honest Christian messgae of salvation and then a change in direction of the convert. You know; “repentance.” (Notice please that I used a semi-colon.) Most American religionistic people are completely ignorant or absolutely willfully stupid about “The faith delivered ONLY ONCE to the Saints.” You ask a person that says they are a Christian – in America – why they believe what they believe and the answers are sickening to say the least. Look at how Romney is considered to the press? Supposedly “educated people,” but as mentally fit as a flat-lined head on victim. Have you ever seperated the chaff from the wheat kernals David????I sat at a lunch table at my San Francisco Bay Area workplace and did just that to some wheat decorations they had been placed on the tables. In minutes I had big piles of “stuff” and little groups of seeds. I OFFENDED SOME PEOPLE BY THAT VERY ACT!!!! These were people I would consider quite written against by Paul in the New Testament. Not exactly Christian types. I said nothing to anyone about religion or Jesus or George Bush. But they knew, since I believe in the Bible, what I was “saying.” Ever notice that your leftist associates do not offend or divide anyone or anything with “their” actions? There is no difference between their message and that of Elton John or Richard Dawkins. Big tent filled with debauchery plus. It’s OK, it’s “diversity.” But certainly not the diversity that Jesus and His apostles taught. Jesus was not executed for His tolerance and diverstity. The martyrs were not murdered because the were politically correct. You and your friends David does their message find a voice of opposition from the lost? No, as it agrees with the secular paradigm of literally “anything goes” (Except Christianity as taught by Jesus and His followers. That’s an illegal hate crime now).The emerging numbers of Christians in the Global South know the Bible. And they want to teach those in the west about salvation and repentance and regeneration in the Name of Christ Jesus. Just like Peter and Paul, et al. I think that’s wonderful. Your leftist buddies think it is a hate crime.

The global south will, as always, be either ignored or laughed at.

Homosexuality is not immoral. I’m gay. i’m christian. get over it. I will not surrender my God-given love for my partner to any fundamentalist, from any hemisphere. The more Christians cling irrationally to their hatred of homosexuality, the more they will be justly left in the dustbin of history.

I’m totally aghast at your statement, fabulousheretic. Oh my, sir.

or, madam, please excuse me.

BTW, David, any comment on adhering to the Holy Scripture at every turn in our “faith in public life” journey?

I also think this has a lot more to do with schism in the Anglican Communion than is mentioned here.

I sometimes wonder – what kind of church is it that centers its rage on people who are not homosexual by choice but by birth. I know no one who would choose that life -and rage is what it is. A church that would choose schism over homosexuality is one that is destracted from the Gospel. Homosexuality is the Anna Nichole Smith in our religious life. A very large number of clergy – it has been estimated at 50 of Catholic clergy – are gay. To live and despise oneself in the way many gay clergy do is not to preach the Gospel. We have been manipulated by an hysteria that is contagious. The poor, the displaced, the sick, the imprisoned – they are where our passion belongs. Long ago when AIDS was just coming to our national consciousness and it was thought of as a gay disease – it seemed our hospital was filled with men who were dying or very sick with AIDS. We didn’t know much about it and in fact both doctors and nurses were frightened of its implications. We had begun to wear gloves to touch any AIDS patient, to mask in their rooms, in short – to make sure – absolutely sure that both we and they knew how horrible they were – not the disease – the people infected. One day I was sent to a medical floor where a good many of the patients were AIDS patients. The nurses who ordinarily worked there had a prison guard demeanor. They referred to them not with compassion, but by the name of their infection. A group of 4 very flamboyant young men came in and went to the last room at the end of the hallway. they swished and laughed. they charge nurse had assigned that room to me and as I went back to hang IV antibiotics – said to me, “I’d knock before I went in if I were you. You never know what will be going on.” Her face was blank as she made the comment. I walked back and my arms were full as I went in. And she was right, I did not know what I would find. I found a room full of young gay men – praying on their knees. They were weeping in the pain of so much loss. They were praying for their friend who was so very ill. And I was ashamed – ashamed for my own thoughts, for my profession, for the charge nurse, and for the church. I repented that day and now, I simply cannot understand the hysteria around this issue. Why can’t we be as passionate about the child who died of a tooth infection; about the whole families in Darfur who are slaughtered without compunction by armies of children; about the fact that sex offenders in Miami can only live under a bridge – the laws forbid them even the dignity of a place to live as we hysterically point them out and ignore their broken humanity. We like having homosexuals as our current scapegoats. We can avoid everything that matters by becoming hysterical at the thought that they might contaminate our church or family. This is the one issue that young people see through. They see it as hypocritical and false. They are absolutely correct.

How come then, being a Liberal Christian ALWAYS means promoting abortion and homosexuality? Two things that cannot be supported by the New Testament, as both are really sexual immorality and promiscuity. two things that seem to define liberal theolgy.

Those who think the schism is primarily about homosexuality need to educate themselves a little more. This has been going on well before Gene Robinson was elected Bishop in New Hampshire. In response to some of the comments above, people need to stop conflating the belief that homosexuality is sinful with hatred of homosexuals. And, yes, some Christians need to watch the words they use as they do tend to hurt, whether they’re meant to or not. FabolousHeretic, you wrote: “The more Christians cling irrationally to their hatred of homosexuality, the more they will be justly left in the dustbin of history.” Do you mean Christians in general, including yourself, will be left in the dustbin, or just those Christians who cling to those beliefs? The only places where Christianity is expanding are places that generally hold the beliefs that you oppose. If these new believers go into the dustbin, so will Christianity. Of course, there’s Islam, but if that religion ever takes hold in the Western world you’ll be wishing Christianity and all its “hatred” were still the dominate religious force.

“The only places where Christianity is expanding are places that generally hold the beliefs that you oppose.” Not in this country, Eric.

Tom, Is Christianity growing in this country?

Eric,The opposition to homosexuality in Christianity is not growing. By the time the avg. 20 y/o today turns 50, the issue of homosexuality will be non-existent.