J Walking

J Walking

Bush and Jesus and freedom

posted by David Kuo | 1:10am Wednesday July 18, 2007

Yesterday, NYT columnist David Brooks wrote about the two-hour session he had with President Bush last Friday on Iraq. He didn’t find the president beleaguered but rather “assertive and good-humored” and “unshakably committed to stabilizing Iraq.” Where does the confidence come from? Brooks writes that it comes from two sources:

Bush is convinced that history is moving in the direction of democracy, or as he said Friday: “It’s more of a theological perspective. I do believe there is an Almighty, and I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom. And I will tell you that is a principle that no one can convince me that doesn’t exist.”
Second, Bush remains energized by the power of the presidency. Some presidents complain about the limits of the office. But Bush, despite all the setbacks, retains a capacious view of the job and its possibilities.
Conservatives are supposed to distrust government, but Bush clearly loves the presidency. Or to be more precise, he loves leadership. He’s convinced leaders have the power to change societies. Even in a place as chaotic as Iraq, good leadership makes all the difference.

“I believe a gift of that Almighty to all is freedom,” Bush said. How completely correct and how outrageously wrong he is. God does give us freedom. But that gift of freedom is not a freedom based on a form of government – it is the freedom to live as individuals with total, complete, and utter free will. It is the freedom to choose or to reject God, the freedom to choose or to reject God’s gifts. THAT is God’s gift of freedom. To confuse that gift with a form of government reflects both theological and political naivety.
God has given men and women limitless gifts. He has given the gift of his creation – a world of beauty and wonder. He has given the gift of life and the gift of love and the gift of music and art and wonder and awe. God’s gifts are infinite. To somehow select the gift of free will, the gift of freedom, and say that that is the goal worth staking a nation’s reputation, security, and life upon is folly.


The choice of a democratic form of government is a choice for the best form of government mankind knows. That is my opinion. It is an opinion shared by millions of people. Democracy is better, say, than communism in my estimation. It conveys a dignity and a worthy and a freedom worthy of man. That is not to say, however, that democracy is God’s preferred form of government or that democracy is God’s great gift to man or that democracy works in every part of the world and it is our job to evangelize democracy.



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Shawn Hyland

posted July 18, 2007 at 8:54 am


Democracy is not God’s orginal intention for human government. God invented the idea of a Kingdom, but fallen humanity in ancient times and presently are unable to function through this concept because of evil, pride, and corruption at the helm with no checks or balances. Democracy, though imperfect, gives man the civil right to choose if they will believe in God and what “god” they want to believe in. When democracy prospers – man’s free will to choose is restored without the fear of retribution or persecution. Though I may not agree with the handling of some of the war on terror – I do realize that the citizens of certain Muslim nations need to hear another worldview of religion based in love and reconcilation than in hatred and violence – and have thr right to choose.



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maplewood

posted July 18, 2007 at 11:20 am


David: I agree that we need to be careful about imposing our ideas regarding politics on God, but I’m still puzzled. If freedom is God’s gift to humanity – to chose A or B – why would a form of govt. that enables that freedom not be in keeping with God’s will for us?



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Alenda Lux

posted July 18, 2007 at 1:00 pm


David,
I agree with you, and I disagree with you. Rather than take up space, I’ll just link to where I already wrote about this.
http://alendalux.blogspot.com/2007/07/thoughts-on-freedom.html



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Dino

posted July 18, 2007 at 1:56 pm


Shawn,
You seem to be suggesting that God’s original intent for “government” on Earth was a kingdom.
I don’t think that’s correct. The original government of God’s chosen people was the familial unit. They were organized in families or tribes. When they went astray God sent judges to get them back on the right track.
God’s people, however, demanded that God set kings over them, which was contrary to God’s will. God saw that demand as a rejection of His lordship over his people.
Take a look at 1 Samuel 8. It’s not that long, I’ll post it below. Focus in particular on verses 7-10:
1 When Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as judges for Israel. 2 The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not walk in his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and accepted bribes and perverted justice.
4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.”
10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.”
19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”
21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.” Then Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Everyone go back to his town.”



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Shawn

posted July 18, 2007 at 5:34 pm


Dino,
I actually meant the orginal family (Adam and Eve) being ambassadors of the eternal unseen Kingdom of God here in the physical world. The Kingdom of God existed before earth was ever created. He created the world and then wanted to colonize it with His Kingdom. His domain and authority over the earth through his chosen representatives (Adam and Eve – humanity). Outside of this soveriegn kingdom, I agree that the family is God’s first institution of structure and authority on earth.



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Donny

posted July 19, 2007 at 1:11 am


There is no one even close to the equal of George W. Bush in the Islamic world.
Or even Nancy Pelosi.
There is no free society in any Islamic country on earth “unless” you are a Muslim.
George W. Bush is using his position in life to make the world a better place for people that will grasp freedom. A place, where even in the Islamic world, anyone can (or should) have freedom to believe or not believe.
President Bush will fail ONLY because Muslims will fail to allow or grasp the concept of freedom. Real freedom.



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Paul of Potomac

posted July 20, 2007 at 1:58 pm


God’s freedom is freedom FROM the world not freedom OF the world. His freedom transcends the ugliness and pain of reality, and can be experienced anywhere whether it be in the Gulag or in Guatanamo or in our own daily lives.
I agree with David that our President confuses man’s freedom with God’s freedom. Although man’s freedom is highly desirable and perhaps a noteworthy goal (I believe the Emancipation Proclamation is one of the most shining moments in our country’s history), God’s freedom cleanses our sinful nature. Even more importantly, with God’s freedom, we are also set free to love our enemies, and to love our neighbors as ourselves.



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anthony

posted August 11, 2007 at 8:24 am


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