Christus Victor

This is where I get confused: AIDS is an easily preventable disease, but it's "evil"; abortion involves the taking of a human life, but it's just a political ambiguity? I just can't understand that way of thinking.

Christ "like?"

Conservative values and the Right/Left debate shows who is being Christ "like" and who is not. It is right versus wrong, not left versus right. When all is said and done even you David, will have to admit to the errors in Liberal theology and ideology.

But I thought that it was confession of Christ (faith) that showed His followers, along with behaviors (works).

Trying to be Christ "like" will put off too many people that dwell in the Liberal camp. They'll just come up with catching phrases to avoid the life of a Christian.

Would be very interested in reading this one. explored his site and blog. A good friend who is an old priest made this kind of thought clear to me many years ago as we studied Scripture. Having been raised in a fire and brimstone, the bad guys are out there and you need protection from them, and anyone outside of us must be evil kind of church, it seemed revolutionary thought when Father began to explore this. It led me to graduate school and teaching.

This is a great book - I read it right after TEMPTING FAITH. Am trying not to get discouraged by all the people who have fallen in love with the lines of division we've drawn around left and right, Christian and unchristian, etc. UGH. Thank God we can go to Jesus and say, "Help - You handle this. We're just making a mess..."

By the way, the willingness and capacity to bleed for others is the best measure of Christianity I think I've ever heard of. Is it from Henri Nouwen originally?

Bob,
RE: your question about Abortion.

I have not read the author's book, but I would assume the differentation would be in what is explicitly stated in scripture, vice what we have theologically determined to be an interpretation of scripture. The current abortion stance is a theological construct that isn't explicitly spelled out in scripture. Even within the construct of outlawing abortion you have varied theological positions. For example, many protestant, evangelical churches go by the doctrine of birth starting at conception. Whereas, if you look at the Catholic position, it is any unnatural interference with the process of birth is not according to God's will. Therefore, even birth control (other than by natural means, i.e., refraining from relations during the most likely periods for conception) is disallowed. Also, the theological position has shifted throughout the years as to when life begins.

Therefore, just as something like baptism has different theological interpretations, so can abortion have several theological interpretations. We align ourselves with the church that best matches our own values and interpretations, but can you unequivically state that the other churches interpretation is incorrect. Is that not being judgemental, which is God's task, not ours?

My own personal theological belief based on scriptures, my understanding of the fetal development process, and on the definition of death, is to state that "spiritual" life begins at the formation of the brain stem, which is approximately 10-14 weeks. My reasoning is that all thought and bodily activity is developed and controlled by the brain, therefore, what we call the "spirit" or "soul" of a person isn't present until the brain starts to form and ends when all brain activity dies.

My problem with the "at-conception" position is that it is basing the argument on DNA. The problem is there is not a unique individual based on DNA. Identical twins may not form until several days after conception and form from a single DNA (i.e., two unique individuals based on a common DNA). Additionally, our DNA is passed to other unique individuals when we give organs, and thus can survive beyond our own survival. So, in essence, if one took the DNA argument, then we wouldn't be dead until all our DNA is dead.

I think the only logical conclusion if one wants to abide by the "establishment of life" argument is the Catholic church's position that anything that interrupts the natural order is "playing-God".