J Walking

J Walking

The theology of heaven

posted by David Kuo | 5:34pm Monday September 17, 2007

Re: heaven, John E. makes some great points:

The theology of heaven needs some work.
As it stands in the layman’s mind, it currently appeals mostly to
the very young or simpleminded:
Yes, there will be ice cream, and puppies, and angels with golden harps, any you’ll be able to fly anywhere you want!
and the very old or sick:
There will be no more sickness or decay, and you’ll be able to lay your weary burdens down.
What is there in heaven to appeal to an individual of youngish to middle age years who enjoys productive work and takes pleasure in sex?

John is right – we don’t have a theology of heaven. Or, perhaps more properly stated, we don’t have a compelling popular theology of heaven that makes much of a difference to our lives. Or, maybe it is just me…and John E.



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Thinker

posted September 17, 2007 at 5:47 pm


I think a theology of heaven is one of hope. Having watched the deaths of many people in ICU’s over the years – I have seen the glimmer of recognition that often comes near the end. I recall an old nun who waited patiently for heaven and taught her young and arrogant doctor all he will need to know and hope and humility. I have seen an ancient Baptist preacher – so excited about meeting Jesus – his body would not shut down – it took him a long time – his hope was so childlike and so lovely.
One of the most interesting people in Christian history was Julian of Norwich – who had a near death experience – and spend the rest of her life telling everyone about what she learned about heaven and God and forgiveness. Her “Shewings” was fairly contemporary with Chaucer – Julian has a lot to teach us about a theology of heaven. I don’t know what life will be when I die – I just know that nothing ends – no energy is gone – is is transformed and with that knowledge – the mystery grows.
A friend once said that anyone who can get to the age of 50 and reject cynicism – completely – is a saint. In the nursing homes, you glimpse those saints among the grouchy ones. They are different because hope never died in them. Perhaps that is part of the theology of heaven – it is pure and still trusts in all creation.



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Doug

posted September 17, 2007 at 5:52 pm


So, heaven needs comprehensive immigration reform? It’s a very interesting point about the appeal of heaven, group by group. For those of us in the middle years, fast, effective tech support would be a big draw along with an affirmative answer to your Friday question.
To respond more seriously, though, John’s point reflects how used we are to seeing ourselves as a segmented people rather than one body. It’s interesting to compare to Acts and the argument over whether the Gospel was only for Jews.



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Donny

posted September 17, 2007 at 10:02 pm


Since “time” has no meaning in heaven, in eternity that is, we can get a glimpse of it when we are truly happy. No wants that to end. Not a child and not an adult. “I will love you FOREVER.” “I wish this night would last forever.” Where does this thought process come from?
A few years back, a friend and I were driving into the Spirit West Coast Christian Music festival held in Monterey California. We were talking about heaven and eternity. We talked about the fact that we humans often have feelings of joy we wish would never end. We both feel this in the intensity of just singing and praising God with a few tens of thousands of fellow believers. It has nothing to do with the Newsboys or Thrid Day, or whoever is up on stage singing and playing. It is a “feeling” a “thought” that “if” this lasted forever, this feeling of intense joy, then eternity is truly something to look forward to.
It used to be a joke, the whole playing harp forever thing. Not very appealing. Unless of course playing harp truly moves you. But just like the fact that no one wants to be alone or excluded is a glimpse of a hell seperated from God, the desire to be forever happy, is another pre-glimpse of what it will be for those that Christ Jesus throws His arms around and says “This one is mine.” Those that feel worthy and confident (no not me) and happily excited about forever want to hear that . . . and those that feel unworthy and sorry for regrets of a life lived short of what Christ Jesus desired for us (yeah that’s me), want to hear that too.
Does anyone want that not to happen?
Anyone?
Heaven and God. They are in our DNA to desire just as it is for any other instinct for survival. And who doesn’t want to survive for forever?



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Bob

posted September 18, 2007 at 5:50 am


“Productive work” is nice, I enjoy it. I can’t say, though, that my heart — deep down inside — desires it; not like I desire to be reunited with the ones I love.
And sex is wonderful and fulfilling as part of the Sacrament of Marriage, as an expression of love and union. It was pleasurable, but not terribly fulfilling (as far as the heart goes) when it was just a recreational activity.
The other night, someone on EWTN said that God’s vision of love is what the human heart desires. That reminds me of C.S. Lewis and what he termed “joy”. That’s what God is about. That’s what heaven is about. And that’s an eternity away from the purely earthly pleasures of our 20′s.



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Doug

posted September 18, 2007 at 12:15 pm


Good post, Donny.



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John E.

posted September 18, 2007 at 10:39 pm


I was very pleasantly surprised this morning to see that my previous comments had generated a blog entry. I wish more people had responded to describe what they thought heaven was all about. I concur with Doug – that was a good post by Donny.
But still, even in his description we see the contradictions inherent in trying to talk about something that we have no real concept of. Donny starts off by saying that there is no time, just eternity; yet his most wished for desire is something that implies duration – a sequence of events that begins with an embrace and ends with words of a confirmed relationship.
If you have a sequence of events, you have time. Time is what makes the sequence. So in what sense is “eternity” different from “time without end”?
Reunion with the ones you love, as per Bob? Yes, that would be nice, but that gets us back around to the question of what we would do in heaven with our loved ones. I’m pretty sure that I would be all chatted and reminisced out after the duration equivalent of fifty years or so. Definitely would be after the thousand years that are supposed to be one God-day equivalent.
Even following up on Thinker’s preacher who was excited about the idea of meeting Jesus. True and something to be longed for, but after a while He will have been met.
Meet and speak with the Great Ones of History? Mark Twain wrote about that, to the general effect that we might want to meet them, but would they be interested in meeting us? And since there are a finite amount of people and an infinite amount of time (or duration) eventually we would run out of people to talk to.
Honestly, and I realize this is probably blasphemous, the only thing that I can think of that would keep me pleasantly interested for eternity would be to be able to create my own universe and mess around with it.



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Bob

posted September 19, 2007 at 12:38 pm


John E.,
I don’t think what you said is blasphemous, but I think it’s sad. God offers eternal union with Him, and you respond with, “Yeah, but what’s there to do? Eternal life is nice, but really God, I think you could make it better.”



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