I ran into Ralph at a conference last week after not seeing him for a long time. He agreed to a quick interview: Should we just hand the keys to whichever Democrat wins the nomination? It sure seems like the...
Boy, that almost sounds delusional at times. I have always found Reed and Carville the two most irritating and overrated voices in the political spectrum. Both of them remind me of fingernails on a blackboard.
Larry Parker
October 19, 2007 1:28 AM
I know you know the guy, David, but I wonder how he can even show his face after the whole Abramoff thing destroyed his political career (and, more to the point, reputation).
Elvis Elvisberg
October 19, 2007 1:36 AM
Ralph Reed moved to DC in 1981 to work for Jack Abramoff, the powerful GOP lobbyist who's currently a guest of the Federal government. A couple years later, Reed became a born-again Christian. As it was before his conversion, he has been part of or darn near scandal in almost all of his many posts, all the way back to college columnist. (Just see his Wikipedia article for starters).
Becoming a Christian didn't seem to involve any call toward ethical behavior, for Reed. It looks more like a power-grabbing schtick.
Reed said, "Republican candidates are talking openly and quite comfortably about their faith. Republicans are talking about... appointing strict constructionist judges to the federal bench, and winning the war on terrorism."
It's pretty obvious to everyone that Jesus hates his terrorist enemies, and that he _loves_ strict constructionism.
Well, except about standing armies.
And when it comes to the extent of executive power, Jesus is on record as being more of a Scaliaesque Machiavellian.
At least when a Republican is president.
Ralph Reed demeans religion by yoking it to the talking points of a political party.
Jillian
October 19, 2007 6:21 AM
I hadn't heard yet that the 1993 Clinton health care plan was compellingly unChristian, or that being a "respected conservative" was a Christian value. (Bill Buckley will surely revel in his many new admirers, if he finds out.)
Interesting that Reed doesn't mention Martin Luther King and how the Southern white churches and church leaders (and Northern ones, too) utterly failed him.
Reed sure has an optimistic spin on the general leader die-out, overall shrinkage (or at least contraction to the South and Midwest) as the last generation born before WW2 dies, and semideliberate social marginalization of his movement. The declining and slow depoliticizing of the lesser conservative denominations is evidently a sore point, too. The collapse of the national political stalemate about Roe v Wade in August 2005, in favor of retaining its verdict as law of the land...unmentionable. Approval of gay marriage legalization reaching 40% nationally this year and increasing 1% per year, politically settled in Massachusetts and about to be made law in several more states in 2009-11...surely too upsetting.
He also evades that in a Clinton-Giuliani race, polling does show the remaining Undecideds are now Clinton leaning. Or that in a race of roughly equivalent quality candidates and campaigns, the Democratic minimum is 48% and the Republican maximum about 47% of the vote.
It seems fairly evident that people like Ralph Reed are in fact a variety of ethnic/tribal politicians; the more I hear the more their religion seems in their own eyes to be a cultural aspect of their constituencies and own beliefs. Rather than an aspiration transcending themselves and their movement and their political positions.
There are some new churches in SBC but the number of new churches are growing at a rate below population increase in the US. Same with worship attendance. Overall giving also increased, but at about the same as the percent of worship attendance growth and below the inflation rate. http://baptistpress.com/bpnews.asp?id=25408
So even using SBC's own statistic who's accuracy has been questioned at each of the last three SBC annual meetings Ralph's hopes of depending on the SBC is a little mis-placed.
The reality is that the SBC is doing pretty much what the rest of the Evangelical world is doing. It is slowly losing the race to population growth.
Doug
October 19, 2007 8:50 AM
I'm still hoping for a Republican President in 2008 as long as it isn't Giuliani or Romney but I agree with the above. That's the kool-aid talking. If the Republicans aren't, as the philosophers say, hosed, it speaks badly of the Democrats and maybe the American voter but not well of the Republicans. They need a good hosing and a good hosing off. Nearly every man of them, a Lady MacBeth.
That said, the tv commercial that put Coverdell in the Senate, with the grandma singing "Let's put Paul Coverdell in the Senate and put Wyche Fowler out" was brilliant. Like so many disgraceful men, Reed's plenty smart.
maxcat06
October 19, 2007 9:17 AM
It's amazing to me that Ralph Reed and Tom Delay are still spouting Christian homilies...
both claim that they have been persecuted for their faith, rather than for falling from that faith.
Self-delusion is a wonderful thing.
Reed puts me in mind of the old saying, "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it still make a sound?"
ds0490
October 19, 2007 11:11 AM
Ralph Reed...poster child of what is wrong with the Christian Right.
aquaman
October 19, 2007 1:49 PM
"The tendency to equate our political with our Christian convictions causes politics to generate idolatry."
-- Reinhold Niebuhr, 1952
I don't know Ralph Reed the man, but his public life has been an object lesson in the wisdom of Niebuhr's cautionary words.
Peace.
James
October 19, 2007 2:07 PM
David: You should ask Ralph next time whether he has been in touch with his friend and colleague Jack Abramoff.
Tom
October 19, 2007 2:48 PM
David: You should avoid Ralph next time. Or, maybe we should all avoid anachronistic forces attempting to influence the culture and politics.
Larry Parker
October 20, 2007 1:59 AM
The thought that I had the least mean thing to say about Ralph Reed (I'm hardly going to say it was "nice") in this audience, particularly given my regrettable past tendencies to automatically jumble up the charlatans of the Religious Right with people trying to do genuine faith-based work like you and John DiIulio (though reading JW regularly is enjoyable penance) ...
Well, let's just say that's pretty scary.
Chris
October 23, 2007 7:45 AM
It's been about a year since all the Abramoff stuff was going on and Ralph Reed has not been charged or even mentioned in that case since his race for office ended. It doesn't take much effort to see that his "involvement" was just generated for political use to attack him. They may have worked together but Reed obviously didn't do anything illegal even though Abramoff did.
It is very sad to see how "people of faith," rush to judgement, and attack others. Probably part of the reason that churchs are declining rather than increasing in membership. I seem to recall reading something about "judging not lest ye be judged" and "gossip & backbiting" being frowned upon.
Ralph Reed is one of the smartest guys in politics today. Why do you think the left hates him so? And attacks him at every turn? If we had the understanding to take that which they fear and use it against them, we would be better off.
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Boy, that almost sounds delusional at times. I have always found Reed and Carville the two most irritating and overrated voices in the political spectrum. Both of them remind me of fingernails on a blackboard.
I know you know the guy, David, but I wonder how he can even show his face after the whole Abramoff thing destroyed his political career (and, more to the point, reputation).
Ralph Reed moved to DC in 1981 to work for Jack Abramoff, the powerful GOP lobbyist who's currently a guest of the Federal government. A couple years later, Reed became a born-again Christian. As it was before his conversion, he has been part of or darn near scandal in almost all of his many posts, all the way back to college columnist. (Just see his Wikipedia article for starters).
Becoming a Christian didn't seem to involve any call toward ethical behavior, for Reed. It looks more like a power-grabbing schtick.
Reed said, "Republican candidates are talking openly and quite comfortably about their faith. Republicans are talking about... appointing strict constructionist judges to the federal bench, and winning the war on terrorism."
It's pretty obvious to everyone that Jesus hates his terrorist enemies, and that he _loves_ strict constructionism.
Well, except about standing armies.
And when it comes to the extent of executive power, Jesus is on record as being more of a Scaliaesque Machiavellian.
At least when a Republican is president.
Ralph Reed demeans religion by yoking it to the talking points of a political party.
I hadn't heard yet that the 1993 Clinton health care plan was compellingly unChristian, or that being a "respected conservative" was a Christian value. (Bill Buckley will surely revel in his many new admirers, if he finds out.)
Interesting that Reed doesn't mention Martin Luther King and how the Southern white churches and church leaders (and Northern ones, too) utterly failed him.
Reed sure has an optimistic spin on the general leader die-out, overall shrinkage (or at least contraction to the South and Midwest) as the last generation born before WW2 dies, and semideliberate social marginalization of his movement. The declining and slow depoliticizing of the lesser conservative denominations is evidently a sore point, too. The collapse of the national political stalemate about Roe v Wade in August 2005, in favor of retaining its verdict as law of the land...unmentionable. Approval of gay marriage legalization reaching 40% nationally this year and increasing 1% per year, politically settled in Massachusetts and about to be made law in several more states in 2009-11...surely too upsetting.
He also evades that in a Clinton-Giuliani race, polling does show the remaining Undecideds are now Clinton leaning. Or that in a race of roughly equivalent quality candidates and campaigns, the Democratic minimum is 48% and the Republican maximum about 47% of the vote.
It seems fairly evident that people like Ralph Reed are in fact a variety of ethnic/tribal politicians; the more I hear the more their religion seems in their own eyes to be a cultural aspect of their constituencies and own beliefs. Rather than an aspiration transcending themselves and their movement and their political positions.
His comments about SBC aren't really true either.
Overseas missions giving is now 2 cents of every dollar, down from 7 cents in 1920s. http://baptistpress.com/bpnews.asp?id=26590
Baptisms are down this past year and the year before - http://baptistpress.com/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=25704
There are some new churches in SBC but the number of new churches are growing at a rate below population increase in the US. Same with worship attendance. Overall giving also increased, but at about the same as the percent of worship attendance growth and below the inflation rate. http://baptistpress.com/bpnews.asp?id=25408
So even using SBC's own statistic who's accuracy has been questioned at each of the last three SBC annual meetings Ralph's hopes of depending on the SBC is a little mis-placed.
The reality is that the SBC is doing pretty much what the rest of the Evangelical world is doing. It is slowly losing the race to population growth.
I'm still hoping for a Republican President in 2008 as long as it isn't Giuliani or Romney but I agree with the above. That's the kool-aid talking. If the Republicans aren't, as the philosophers say, hosed, it speaks badly of the Democrats and maybe the American voter but not well of the Republicans. They need a good hosing and a good hosing off. Nearly every man of them, a Lady MacBeth.
That said, the tv commercial that put Coverdell in the Senate, with the grandma singing "Let's put Paul Coverdell in the Senate and put Wyche Fowler out" was brilliant. Like so many disgraceful men, Reed's plenty smart.
It's amazing to me that Ralph Reed and Tom Delay are still spouting Christian homilies...
both claim that they have been persecuted for their faith, rather than for falling from that faith.
Self-delusion is a wonderful thing.
Reed puts me in mind of the old saying, "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it still make a sound?"
Ralph Reed...poster child of what is wrong with the Christian Right.
"The tendency to equate our political with our Christian convictions causes politics to generate idolatry."
-- Reinhold Niebuhr, 1952
I don't know Ralph Reed the man, but his public life has been an object lesson in the wisdom of Niebuhr's cautionary words.
Peace.
David: You should ask Ralph next time whether he has been in touch with his friend and colleague Jack Abramoff.
David: You should avoid Ralph next time. Or, maybe we should all avoid anachronistic forces attempting to influence the culture and politics.
The thought that I had the least mean thing to say about Ralph Reed (I'm hardly going to say it was "nice") in this audience, particularly given my regrettable past tendencies to automatically jumble up the charlatans of the Religious Right with people trying to do genuine faith-based work like you and John DiIulio (though reading JW regularly is enjoyable penance) ...
Well, let's just say that's pretty scary.
It's been about a year since all the Abramoff stuff was going on and Ralph Reed has not been charged or even mentioned in that case since his race for office ended. It doesn't take much effort to see that his "involvement" was just generated for political use to attack him. They may have worked together but Reed obviously didn't do anything illegal even though Abramoff did.
It is very sad to see how "people of faith," rush to judgement, and attack others. Probably part of the reason that churchs are declining rather than increasing in membership. I seem to recall reading something about "judging not lest ye be judged" and "gossip & backbiting" being frowned upon.
Ralph Reed is one of the smartest guys in politics today. Why do you think the left hates him so? And attacks him at every turn? If we had the understanding to take that which they fear and use it against them, we would be better off.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.