Grassley used to be my Senator and I trust him as much as anyone in D.C. Of course, that isn’t saying too terribly much and I’ll admit to a chuckle over the ‘if.’

GOP payback time.

I don’t get your comment. Are you saying that Grassley is paying back these guys for not being Republican enough?
You know that these guys will claim it’s an anti-Christian conspiracy, and you know that many will believe them, facts be damned. Still, if Grassley has the heart to do it, he’ll push through.
He was a leader in the S-CHIP debate, too. He’s got integrity. Rep. Leach, one of the most principled Republicans, was from Iowa, too, wasn’t he? Maybe it makes sense that there’s an early primary in that state.

Elvis, Iowa also has the best districting system and pretty evenly divided between parties. I’d support an amendment to let Iowa just do the whole job although Rep. King is a nearly Tancredoan idiot.

My kid is working in Iowa. She can’t get over the interest of the people in what is happening to us. “It’s like moving to civics land – they understand how important their vote is.”
Perhaps such integrity is characteristic of Iowa. I hope there are such people in my own state.

I don’t know the man, the “Good Senator” or his religion, but I can’t help but wonder, why no prayer in schools because of the seperation of church and state, yet it’s ok for a US Senator (I believe that to be government)can attack people of the church. There must be a way to check these things out without “the government” being involved. The church can not have anything to do with the government, but the government can degrade the church with questions that point the finger without proof. I’m sure most people will not see my point, but big brother is headed this way and it won’t bother you until it comes to your door. Senator Grassley please rethink the way you attack people of your own faith. It could be costly to you bringing the church into your political agenda, you are in the government arn’t you? You do see my point, don’t you?

James good point.
But, the word of faith, prosperity gospel people have been fleecing the flock for far too many years. That’s a lot of money that could go to a politician. Ken Copeland and Benny Hinn? I would even take Jim Wallis over those guys.
Donny

James, if you check the reason for investigation, you see the churches in question gets a special tax-exempt status. That status can only be given by the government, and therefore it can only be investigated for proper use by the government. I’d say that that alone is reason enough to ask these questions if abuse is suspected, and reason enough for him to do it. It’s not an attack; this is about whether these guys are being on the level with the special benefits given to them.
Personally, I’d like to see it asked more often out of televangelists and more mainline denominations. I think there is rampant abuse of this status, and it needs to be taken away instead of just looked at as some innocent transgression. Good for the Senator.

Donny nailed it: all being investigated are part of the prosperity gospel crowd and bring in quite a large chunk of change. Just where is all that $$$ going to???

The NFL nailed Belichick and the Patriots, didn’t they? Maybe if Christians policed our own “league” as effectively, the feds wouldn’t have to be called in.

Kent Hovind, founder of a scamming Creationist Ministry, is already doing a ten year stretch in a federal prison for tax evasion.
“Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism and Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, was found guilty in November [2006] of 58 federal counts, including failure to pay $845,000 in employee-related taxes. He faced a maximum of 288 years in prison.” (from religionnewsblog)
Here are my favorite bits from the completely hilarious Wiki article:
“In 2004, Hovind was interviewed on Da Ali G Show, in an episode titled ‘Science’ from the first season of the show’s U.S. run on HBO. ‘Ali G’, played by comedian Sacha Baron Cohen, told Hovind that the fact that Hovind ate bananas proved that he was descended from monkeys.”
…
“At the time of the indictment, Hovind’s defense appeared to be that although there were 30 people working for him, all of whom received remuneration in cash, none of them were employees. According to Hovind, ‘Nobody’s an employee, and they all know that when they come. They come, they work … The laborer is worthy of his hire — we try to take the purely scriptural approach. We do the best we can with helping people with their family needs. There are no employees here.’”
The purely scriptural approach!

This reminds me alot of the times and ministry of Jesus ,who came and began to heal and bring people to wholeness and was attacked by the religous leaders of His day. The government did not know how to deal with it so they sent him back to his own to be crucified . Rome did not crucify the Lord religious leaders did.We should not be surprised that these ministries have been brought under scrutiny especially since they have been warning people of impending legislation that would stop the preaching of the word in public forums against sin. America is at a crossroads and the very freedoms that we have enjoyed are being threatened . Those in these ministries that are hearing from the Spirit of God will walk victourisly those who are provoking this censourship will give an account at the day of judgement.Judgement always starts in the house of the Lord. Prepare the way for the coming of the Lord

Rome did not crucify the Lord religious leaders did
Bull. Crucifixion was a Roman method of executing slaves and criminals and rebels. The purpose behind it was not just death of said individual, but to terrorize any followers of that person, as well as the population at large. Fear was a powerful and one of the most used weapons that Rome employed. The fact that Jesus was crucified says very plainly that the Roman authorities saw Jesus as a threat. If any of the ‘native’ leadership in any providence had tried to crucify anyone – that leadership would have been the next in line for crucifixion.
That’s not to say that Jesus did not upset the Jewish leadership, both political and religious of his day – he did. And that’s not to say that the rest of your post didn’t have a good point – it does. But throughout history the lie that “Jews are Christ-killers” has been used to justify almost 2,000 years of bigotry, harrassment, genicide and murder. And that is just flat out wrong.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion…..

If the are true, these preachers haven’t just jeopardized the tax-exempt status of their churches– they have defrauded the faithful. While I admire my fellow commenters’ dedication to the principle of separation of church and state, I believe their zeal is misguided. In the first Century, perhaps it was better to be wronged than to seek justice from the Romans (1 Cor 6:7), but if someone steals from my church, I have no issue with asking the secular authorities to restore what is rightfully ours. And because of the tax subsidy government confers on churches, it’s their prerogative to investigate criminal activity, even if the faithful would prefer to look the other way.

Am I supposed to believe that Creflo Dollar is his real and given name?

Was his Dad’s name Luvyor Dollar?

Truthfulness reigns supreme. This is just an attack of the enemy. Truth of the matter is all these ministries deliever the uncomprising Word of God (they are very fruitful) and if this is the best the enemy has then they shall reign supreme. God is always causing us the triump.

God is always causing us to triump the is. Not the triump

As you see, David, it’s easier to blame liberal secularists than you might have thought.

“God is always causing us to triump the is. Not the triump”
Say WHAT??

david, perhaps you can explain the difference between how you make your income and how they do.
yes, i am aware of your book.
sigh.
I am also aware of the nutcase pseudo religious frauds who got tons of money from your office at the white house. (i have deliberately not capitalized that. the building under this administration has no relationship whatsoever to its prior esteemed functions.)
I went to a food distribution from “good religious folks” last x-mas. 1. I was forced to listen to diatribes about the evil evolutionists. 2. I was compared to drug dealers and prostitutes who needed to find God. (i am poor and disabled, not a felon … it’s the folks on the stage who usually fit the category of prior or future felons. I also have a strong religious faith in which I find great sustenence.) 3. When i tried leave (after 1 1/2 hrs of this assault on my faith, my character and my heart), i was prevented from doing so. Seems the “minister” decided to lock the auditorium to prevent my (and everyone else’s) early departure. (suffer the children … sigh) 4. When the food was given out, i asked for someone to help me as my disability does not permit me to stand stationary for any length of time. I was treated very badly; they chose not to take my request at face value, but rather to treat all the disabled folks there as “malcontents” who needed to shape up or ship out.
But thanks to your hard work, these “ministers” will have their church built at taxpayers’ expense.
And the sorry middle class will assume they are doing “good works” in the meantime.
I prefer secular government thank you. At least it comes without arrogant judgment and false prophets. To give to all is my understanding of the message of Christ; judgment is left to God; to give to folks a person decides is “worthy” is a fundamental act of arrogance that has nothing to do with charity.
So what is to become of you David? Have you considered practicing your faith in anonymnity and grace? Or is that just for poor folks to do…..
For you to act like this is newsworthy is even more laughable to me.
What’s the old maxim “the minister’s coming … hide the silver.’?????

David:
Thank you for pointing out the ORU connection with Dollar, Hinn and Copeland.
This could get REALLY ugly …

Ho-lee, Mo-lee! Now I read in the paper that Mr. Dollar’s ministry is called something like the World Money Changers Cathedral or some such!!??

When we search the scriptures and our heart, we are to consider all things and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong for ourselves.
I have great faith in Oral Roberts University and have followed the teachings of Dollar, Hinn and Copeland. For me they are an inspiration, they are not God’s but men of God preaching His truths.

“david, perhaps you can explain the difference between how you make your income and how they do.” — amy
Amy, there is a huge difference, and that’s the whole point of this article. Certain televangelists will possibly (likely? assuredly?) be found to have cheated their congregation by taking their money under false pretenses of empty promises, using their enterprise not to help people find spiritual comfort but rather to help themselves get rich and avoid paying taxes.
Please consider this: David is not your enemy. I understand that certain shallow-minded and bigoted people have mistreated you in the name of their faith and under the guise of helping you, but you have not and will not be treated that way by anyone who practices their faith the way David practices his. There are still good people in the world.

The assumption that ORU graduates are little televangelist clones is simply wrong. I know half a dozen amazing people who have gone to ORU or Messiah College (last year’s joke Christian college after Monica what’s her name from the Justice department revealed her college). Know one complete jerk who is always right, completely arrogant, righteous right wing bag of wind from ORU. Every school has a few of those – Harvard, University of Texas, ORU – none are safe from the self centered righteous sorts. The half dozen who are nothing like him are honest, critical of their school in a healthy fashion and admiring of teachers and school for the right reasons (good scholars, inspire me to learn, opened my mind etc are comments I heard in a conversation about ORU). I truly hope it doesn’t go under with this scandal, but I suspect it will. Wonder when Liberty U or Regent will be examined in such a fashion. Only know a couple of Liberty U grads – both gay men who went there in an attempt to deny their very selves. Both were damaged by the education they received there, damaged by people in authority, but both have great Christian friends who have stood by them and cared for them.
We tend to stereotype students from certain Christian colleges in exactly the same manner we might stereotype a Brigham Young student, A Notre Dame student, even a Texas A&M student (actually a good number of students there are related to me – brothers, nephews, nieces, dad, grandfather – so my particular stereotype at A&M has to do with football, the corps, and Lyell Lovett (he was a suitemate with my brother many years ago).. At any rate – let us not judge the universities based on their boards. ORU will be redeemed – a fairly long history of graduates of stellar reputation – can certainly step up to the plate here. Perhaps such people can save the school.
I’ve heard several of these televangelists preach over the years. Always kind of wanted to sneak out and take a shower. Had the same experience with our parish priest years ago. My husband uses the word “smarmy” to describe them. It works.
But let us think of others – Billy Graham, Fr. Richard Rohr, Tammye Faye Baker (in her last years) are all people who preach to us so that we might be changed to be more loving, less judgemental, and more generous to the poor. Tammy Faye became one of my favorite people because in all of her simple silly ways of living life, she did love Jesus and she loved those that no one else loved. Where is Jimmy Swaggart? Pat Robertson – the ultimate flim flam man? In our town, we have our own special mega church spender. Unless an evangelist is willing to be transparent in all things financial – dust off your sandals and go next door – or down the street.
Now Amy – you might notice that David’s work is a correction to both his past career and to present hypocrisies in the church and in politics. It is his job to do so. He writes and researches and I don’t think the collection plate is ever passed. One of the things that makes him my friend is that he is so capable of self examination. Always a good sign when we’re dealing with religious people. In fact – that particular ability is sort of the basic place I must start. Don’t want to hear any of that “i’m a sinner” crap. When someone goes back into life and examines the warts closely – well – that gives credibility to one who is equally honest about other Christian hypocrisy. We all make errors, have human faults and defects, but repentance in any form is the first step in being a necessary critical voice. David does that. I hope I do it. I’m sure many others do that.. Darn, I just ran off at the keyboard. Sorry.

In response the the investigation of the televangelists, all of these people appear on TBN and I know that I watch just about all of them. Honestly, I do wonder why everything is about money. If you have people who are working to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ and God and are new in this experience, why do they charge for all the material that they have. If you are ministering to new Christians, you should want to give them all the material that they need. Also, why is it that everyone always says that if you give, God is going to bless you so greatly, and they set a dollar amount. What about those of us who might not have the extra money? We tithe and give offering but don’t have the extra money for seed offerings. Are we not going to be blessed also? This upsets me. I am poor and struggling to try to take care of 6 children along with my husband and to pay our bills and to hear these messages, makes you want to give what is allotted for bills to these ministries so that they will pray for financial blessings for you too. But then I remember that God said to give without expectation of receiving something in return, and so I do what I can. I support my church and give to those in need that I see. I remember growing up and I am 48 that there was a minister in NYC who would sell blessed pray clothes and his church was in Manhattan. I can’t remember his name right now, but he would ask for offerings and say that no change was allowed. He is no longer around.

The Word of God is precise in what it says about judging, Do not Judge, otherise you yourself will be judged by the same measure you measured the other fellow. I am a Born-again, Ambassador for Christ,
who believes that such as a ‘man sows that shall he also reap.” If society constantly observes the christian community always at odds with one another, always looking for a boogey man in every sermon, how do you intend to win souls for Jesus Christ. He already told us to let him divide the sheeps from the goats. If the Senator thought there was something illegal in the christian community why didn’t he go to them and talk about it before he broke the news in the media. The bible instructs us that ‘if your brother be overtaken in a fault, or even if you suspect,(my own nterpretation) go to him in the spirit of meekness, and work it out.” Your adversary the devil is always looking to feed on negativity in the church anyway. Why do People of faith always seem to give him a helping hand. I like to think that this is a witch hunt, but everything always comes out in the wash.

Personally, I think that it’s very good that some of these ministries are helping poor people in other countries. But when it comes down to them owning twenty-plus million dollar jets, very expensive automobiles, expensive condos in several states, etc., yet the whole while asking for even more money??? Sure television time costs money, but when you’re operating on budjets like those? Come on!
It’s as though they’re also in competition with each other, and are losing sight of what it’s really all about in the first place. The sad thing is, it’s becoming an epidemic to the point of whereas it’s catching on all across this nation. Even the churches on a local level use the bible to pull on the purse strings of people that are serious about their walk with Jesus. Give, give, give, “Or you’re cursed with a curse.” That’s in the bible true enough, but sometimes it’s taken to the extreme. The first ten percent does belong to God anyway, but when it comes to the offerings: “Give until it hurts”. “The more you GIVE”, and whatever other story that they feel might work. Just GIVE!
Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had and give it to the poor, and to follow him. How many of THEM are willing to, sell out for Jesus? No doubt there are people in their home congregations that are struggling financially for essentials. Why don’t they sell those jets and fly commercial, and sell those over-priced vehicles and purchase a nice thirty-five to fifty thousand dollar vehicle and use some of that extra money to help people in their home congregations with life’s necessities? Utilities, a decent car, groceries, the rent.
We saw Kenneth Copeland on YouTube laughing about a minister that was reported as saying that he’d spent twenty something thousand dollars over a one-year timespan on commercial plane tickets. His suggestion was that the minister simply buy a jet. Do the math.
Jesus didn’t walk around in super-expensive robes, with expensive gems engraved in them. He never lost sight of who he was and is. He showed compassion and love. Where is the love and compassion now? In the almighty dollar? Not to insinuate that one has to be poor in order to be in God’s favor. Look at 3 John 1:2. Look at Abraham, Solomon, Job, etc.
In these latter days church is becoming more and more like Christmas, commercialized and all about money

I have read most of these comments and I think it all comes down to this …
I believe that all these ministers started out with good intentions, but like with all things in life we need to have some balance.
The ministers are Human beings they are not “GOD”, they can succumb to lifes seductions and one being “MONEY” and “POWER” is I believe where they turned down the wrong path.
I wish for them that they could go back to when they were fresh, pure to the knowledge of God, who he is, and what his heart stands for.
Maybe they could realize that what they are preaching is from thier seduction of the “Power” and “Money” that has enticed them than by what they first intended to show of “Gods love”.
I hope this makes sense but it seems so simple, I hate to think that they are simply people with bad behavior, scam artists that do not have God in thier hearts, but rather the devil of power and money.
I would love to challenge them all to give up at least one of thier seductions maybe it’s a million dollar condo, a car, a house, jewels anything and give the money back to thier church.
A church is made up of the people who come to worship, Give back to them. Help the needy please I challenge you all to doing the right thing..please.
You will prosper in your heart, and you will go back to God, he is in your heart…live in his heart, do as he would, do the right thing.
GO BACK TO GOD!!!!
He loves you and wants you back..
You have the Ability, the Resources and knowledge use it for good.
Don’t waste what he’s given you only the devil wastes, GOD DOESN”T WASTE.
LET HIM USE YOU FOR GOOD…..

All I can say is that Gods tells us not to touch his annointed and to do his prophets no harm. So look out. Mr. Grassley you may have started something God will finish.

I agree with bz here It is dead wrong to attack bring a christian matter to the courts of this world. Mr Grassley is in disobedience to the Word if indeed he is a real Christian. (I do not know him) If he is, how can he prosper in his efforts? I pray for all concerned. By their fruits you will know them. Millions get saved through these ministries. These are powerful fruits. Yet I must ask. Are these people not to have a vacation? Are they not to have nice things? They teach what the bible says and not only that but they live it too. I have watched them for more than thirty years. I am convinced that what they teach and live is Word. If not Well its not for me to judge them. Or anyone else other than The Judge Jesus

1 Corinthians 6
1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
Pray for all concerned that they will line up with what our Father say. Keep judgment for where judgement is called for.
One more thing. The Word says that “He who judges without having All the facts is a fool”

It is wrong for these tele-preachers to live like
millionaires. So many needy children in the USA,
so many worthwhile programs that could use their
help. Just because they give us the word of God,
they will never walk on the water.
They should pay taxes like everyone else!
I pray they will be stopped !

–All I can say is that Gods tells us not to touch his annointed and to do his prophets no harm. So look out. Mr. Grassley you may have started something God will finish.–
I guess it depends on who you consider to be an ‘anointed’ ‘prophet’.
–Millions get saved through these ministries.–
Really? Name ten people who have gotten saved because they happened to land on TBN when flipping through channels. When I was unsaved, I deliberately added all the Christian channels to the ‘skip’ function so they would not even appear, to save time in flipping channels mainly, but also because every time I happened to watch one of them out of curiosity, all they did was beg for money, and it disgusted me.