“Your negative ads, your heartless stand on immigration, your lack of mercy in denying parole to anyone during your term as governor, among other things turn my stomach.” — ? Really ?

“After a while all the dirt and crap and innuendo play themselves out”
I wish I could say I agreed, David.
It’s a chicken-and-egg problem, but the media and the campaigns only know horserace dirt, crap, and innuendo.
The nonsense on the Democratic side is on the level of a dispute among rival cliques of seventh graders. And you sure hear a lot more about “phoniness” and “authenticity” about the GOP candidates than you do about what they would actually, um, do if they were president.
As you point out, these people have all been running for president for a long darn time. (Ie, 35 years for Hillary; something similar for McCain; 6 years, 4 months, 3 days, 2 hours for Giuliani). And there’s still darn little discussion about substance, ever.

David:
Lest you forget, $$$ is the mother’s milk of politics.
And it’s drying up for a lot of these guys.
They may WANT to follow your advice, but they won’t be able to (except maybe for independently wealthy Mitt — even Edwards isn’t THAT rich).

“The thing is the longer the race goes the more candidates are going to have to focus on substance.”
You may be right, but I hold the opposing view that if campaign time was strictly limited to, say, 6 months, then the candidates would have only a short time to get their messages out, and that would obligate them to say something of substance right away in order to stand out.
Of course, sales of Pepto-Bismol would decrease, so there’s that to consider….

That sure was counterintuitive, but I like your thinking, David. I agree with you too, Larry, which is a pity because Mitt, unlike the others on both sides actually brings nothing to the debate, in my opinion. His “positions” are such phony hogwash that I can’t think of a thing he’s added to the dialogue by ad, in debates or in speeches other than reminding us that a subsection of the Republican electorate, much smaller than expected, loves to called beautiful.

So far I have not heard a substantive debate on either side. I keep wishing for one. I have heard speeches that thrill me from Obama, a speech that made me think from Senator Clinton, a game of – “who can be the biggest torture advocate from Mitt, Giuliani, and an equally silly game of “the illegal aliens are responsible for every bad thing that ever happened. I have heard Clinton and Obama snipe at each other like adolescents over the fine points of subjects on which they agree. Huckabee – well – spotty performances – good man – poor advisors on some issues. Mitt seems the most ambitious with Hilary and Obama close second and third. John – goodness – I wish he hadn’t stopped saying what he thinks about two years ago. But he did and I have to live with it. Think he’s too old for the job and that’s hard to say since I’m pretty darn old myself. How do we remove the candidates from the media whirlwind and make them answer substantive questions and then hold them to those answers? I wish I knew. Perhaps sending Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, Keith Olbermann and their Fox News equivalents off to camp for a few months might be a way to start. I really liked the questions Bob Schieffer and Charlie Gibson asked of the candidates – few good answers unfortunately

Thinker, I kind of disagree. granted, it’s a pretty dilute definition of “substantive” but we know that Mike Huckabee does not believe that as President he should tell school boards what to teach about the origin of the world. We know that John McCain thinks that the comprehensive immigration reform compromise was doing the people’s business and that he’s prepared to stop until the borders are secure. We know what every Democrat plans for health care reform. All we know about Romney is that he’s absolutely willing to do anything to get rid of illegal immigration as long as it’s reasonable, he’ll double the size of Guantanamo for whatever reason and his children just love him to death and look like Osmonds.
Your favorite candidate, I find susceptible to the charge that he has been, tactfully, scrupulous with substance, but he isn’t without it. I don’t think anyone who actually listens thinks Obama lacks principles or doubts what his principles are. With Romney I’d say anyone who listens to him is pretty sure he lacks principles so how can you debate, discuss or dialogue issues with someone who only means what he says by happy accident?
And I hope you’re still listening to McCain, whether you agree with him or not. I’ve held him up as my ideal leader for a decade and believe me, I’m sure I suffered as much or more than you at his backing down on the things I thought he’d never surrender, but he’s come a way back and biased as I am, I think a case can be made that while he is a less candid John McCain than we’ve known, he’s probably the most candid candidate we have.

I just wish that Beliefnet.com employees would not try to fuse Christians to liberals, progressives or Mormons every time some “Evangelical” supports Romney, Clinton or Obama. OR BETTER YET, since this is a religion website, these people would actually have to answer to why they support and encourage un-Godly, anti-Christian ways of life when supposedly claiming to be a Christian. Wouldn’t it be something to actually see the truth for a change? Neither Jesus nor any of His Apostles were afraid of questions about their actions.

I lived north of Boston in MA during Romney’s tenure as governor. I think some Christians are quick to write him off because of his Mormonism. The fact is, Romney fought hard to keep his promises to citizens of “Tax”achussetts. He earned some ire from those who did not like having their programs cut. It is quite comical to me how many people lived well in Massachussetts almost completely off of the government – some were only half year citizens (they spent the other half in Florida). These were some of the citizens who didn’t like Romney’s tax cutting programs. Things were so bad when we moved to Massachussetts because of the benefits that my husband who was gainfully employed and had a Master’s degree in Mechanical Engineering was close to qualifying for welfare assistance and Section 8 housing. This makes it difficult for hard working people to feel motivated. I feel that Romney worked hard to change this.
Romney also fought hard against judges who “legalized” same-sex marriage. It was a tough battle but he did his best and fought hard to preserve the traditional family. He is obviously a family man. These are not easy battles to fight in Massachussetts but as a conservative Republican, I felt like Romney did a great job.

Well, this campaign’s LVP will be sticking around, I guess.

Donny:
Indeed, Beliefnet is a Web site for people to share the most profound questions about our spiritual existence.
So I apologize that so few of us have all the answers, as you do.

Doug, I agree that Obama needs to get specific and now. Actually last night’s debate was better than most have been. Those guys were working hard to nod carefully in agreement and look like a unified party. I thought the moderator sort of ignored Edwards. Clinton’s worst problem (besides being Elphaba to this Emerald City) is that she’s boring. McCain – people have ignored him for about 6 months and now he’s blasting out – but – he’s got some real weird statements to defend in the last two years. I would not be surprised to see Newt or Chuck Hagel suddenly put themselves in the running and I can’t even believe I’m saying that. I had recorded most of the debates over the last couple of months, but apparently someone in the family – I won’t name names, but she is working for one of the candidates and is more passionate than her mother about politics. McCain won’t pull it out – Mitt will – I suddenly understood that last night. So – no matter what happens – we will have the ultra ambitious running against the ultra ambitious. I suppose that’s normal.

Donny
Political and religious beliefs are not the same thing. We connect our informed conscience to our responsibility as citizens who are Christians. Now, a conscience is not reactive – it is reflective. Reflection always takes some more to the left (as you would say) and others to the right). There are no monsters in this spectrum of genuinely reflective people. Those who use the religious sensibility of another to create fear or hatred – well that’s kind of close to monsterdom (I actually don’t believe in monsters – I only know the existence of dust bunnies). So – Beliefnet seems to encourage reflective people to be – well – more reflective. That is a good thing for all concerned. Denying a voice to either end of the spectrum – that would be you and me – would be rather profane. I disagree with much of what you say, but do not deny that you love Jesus as I do.

That was a beautiful note to Donny, Thinker. Please say Mitt won’t be the Rep nominee. I’ll be sad voting for Kucinich but I’ll do it. In fact, I’ll vote for a socialist pedarast before Romney. McCain has a lot to answer for, but I still hope to vote for him. He and I are both actual conservatives who don’t get along with the angry stalinists calling themselves conservatives these days.

Doug – the ideas taken from Mitt’s hard drive (let’s be honest here – he’s a machine with memory chips and an amoral view of just about everything. Without conscience, without any knowledge of the problems experienced by the American people, and has done enough dirty tricks in Massachusetts to set him up for am amazing payback. Fortunately there is existing video documenting the mean streak, the cold heart toward anyone suffering and a real connection to a church that only let black in the priesthood about 15 years ago. It’s between Mitt and Giuliani for character challenge and lack of moral fortitude. Wish Mr. Rogers was still around to moderate a debate.
Now Mitt, what you just said was not truthful. I want you to think a little more and we will wait for just a moment so that you can clearly make a truthful statement as to whether jobs will return to Michigan.
Rudy, now before we begin, I want you to remember that people don’t vote for people who lie so easily or so much. Mr. McCain, I’ve heard you say things and then deny saying them. You used to be known for saying exactly what you think. Try to be honest John once again and perhaps you won’t look to ancient to get elected. I think we’ll need to go out to the neighborhood of make believe — oh – I forgot – you already live in a neighborhood of make believe. Good luck boys, Remember the boys and girls in the neighborhood, They desperately need a president they can trust. You boys are gonna have to work on the trust and honesty part . Mitt – tell em – I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I’ve taken jobs from people to enrich myself, I made political hay over the death of two teenagers after the sheriff – in compassion – did not tell their parents that the kids were intoxicated. But, you found out and we watched you just about dance across the stage gleefully over getting that sheriff and destroying those famiies. It was so attractive and amoral. Many people have that tape and play it over and over to feed their hatred of you and everything you stand for. Oh, it’s Reverend Mike – Mike I’m a Reverend too – I don’t mention God too much, just try to live like St Francis – tell everyone about God – use words if absolutely necessary. It works. Constitution doesn’t have to be tampered with. People imitate goodness when they see it. You can be good, be Godly and Mike you don’t have to scare the shit out of people by sounding like a theocrat. Measure your words Mike, Be yourself – you might find yourself elected. Now you three….. Barack – I like the way you want to be good and useful. Tell us what that means please and we’ll all feel lots better. Hilary, Hilary, you’re a smart woman, you know what you’re talking about; your articulate it well – now realize – it’s not about you – it’s about the 200000000 people in this country, They do not want a George Bush do-over where you make the presidency so strong nothing can be done without the distrust of the American people. John, don’t mention the mill town again – overdone. Be very very specific as to what you might do to those corporate monsters. Who’s gonna run business and how. Who will sign on to your health plan and why and what the heck are you doing east of the United states.
Dennis Kucinish – you are my favorite. You are so honest, so real l- the rest of us must turn our eyes away in shame when you speak. I wish I could vote for you. You seem like someone who might live in the neighborhood here and get along – especially if you bring that lovely wife of yours, Neighborhood needs her. She looks like someone who can get things done. She can tall me about working in African and for Mother Teresa. Heck, I want to talk to you guys. You’re my kind of people.
OK Mr. Rogers has been dead for years, but he remains my hero. Everyone he met he saw only their goodness and then firmly believed that person would live up to the goodness within them. Each candidate should spend a day in the presence of Mr. R. Too bad it can’t happen.

Rogers/Thinker 2008!

Donny,
why don’t you start the ball rolling by explaining why you support “unGodly, anti-Chritian ways” when you constantly denigrate, insult and judge your progressive, liberal, democratic neighbors in the face of the commandment to love our neighbors and to leave the judging to God? I have seen you try to deny doing that, which is absurd, and also suggest that you are doing for their own good, which makes it part of God’s job as judge. Here’s what a lot of us would believe — that it is the ugly spawn of a rage that you have been unable to conquer and that you are seeking God’s help in dealing with it. And if that is the truth I pray with you and for you. One of God’s great blessings is the taking away of anger and replacing it with compassion.