Obama and his church... the Biblical response?

Pony up David. Comparing "right-wing" Christian life to "left-wing" religious life is why the New Testament record was written. You ripped Bush a new one for his distortions and errors COMPARED TO SCRIPTURE! Do that with the theology and politics of those (Leftists) that literally condone and encourage sodomy and immorality IN the Church (like Obama). This Wright character admonishes Sean Hannity to read authors of liberation theology (which isn't all that bad a suggestion on the face of it). Well why not read the Apostles and the Gospel witness? We are to test all things and we are to watch for the yeast of the Pharisees. Wright is a perfect example of the all-powerful pharisee, whose works and words are not that of the Church record. Your's is a Christian blog David. Get out your Bible and pony up! It is neither hateful or intolerant to test the doctrines of anyone. Even politicians. It seems that you are yoking yourself to yet another politician for Christian reasons. I thought you wrote a book on why not to do that?

Let's see, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, James Dobson, etc etc and then there's Jeremiah Wright - all love Jesus, all are powerful voices that are more about power than about Jesus, and all have made remarks that should be decried by any sensible Christian. Dobson has created huge crowds around his bigotry, Pat Robertson is an immensely wealthy man who somehow believes that anything goes when it comes to money (his cozy relationships with brutal dictators are legend), Jimmy Swaggart spends a good deal of time demonizing Catholics in particular, but lots of others have received his attention.
There's always the Pope - foot in mouth disease when it comes to Muslims - and a sort of rigidity that can only be described as Pharasaic. Now I'm a Catholic, listen to the pope pretty closely, find some things that he says without merit and much to be a confirmation of the Gospel. I suspect Rev. Wright is no different from these others - perhaps a little bit a of throwback to the 1970's when anger was so part of everything. You can't paint Obama with Wright's brush. Obama came to Jesus o- period. He came at a low point in his life, he had an experience that took him to another way of thinking. Falwell was a particular embarrassement to thoughtful Evangelical Christians. We can all recall ministers and priests and rabbis who speak thoughtlessly and with their own agenda in place. Wright is no different from them.

OK, so I went and listened to a couple - and Old Testament Style is absolutely correct.

I'm not convinced the scriptures call us to be part of any community necessarily but good luck!

Just because you disagree with him doesn't make them lies.

You speak the truth Marcia. ;-)

I do not think Senator Obama should have left his church. I do however think he has handled this whole thing poorly. First, he distanced himself from his pastor a year ago by not including him in his announcement. Then when the video comes out he denounces, rejects and does not share Wrights controversial opinions (whichever ones those were). He acted just like every other politician would act. Why hasn't he taken the time to explain for us white folk the nuances of Rev. Wright's point of view? Why hasn't he shared specifics of what has inspired him over the years, what has stirred his passions to care and fight and want a better America? Certainly he could and should denounce the statements he actually disagrees with but to vaguely reject whatever could be controversial causes him to come across as fearful and weak, not ready and capable.

Actions count for a lot with me. It looks like Wright's church does the kind of things I wish my church was better at. Preaching the gospel and engaged with the community. Not just a Sunday only place. I think it would be helpful if one of the networks showed whole sermons and not just clips. Maybe we could get a glimpse of what has made this into a successful ministry.

Steve

Incidentally, I would question whether Church-hopping was one of the biggest problems in modern American Christianity. I'm unconvinced its a problem at all in following Jesus as an American. It seems to be a problem for Pastors and Synods mainly.

Jesus came to set those who were held captive by any system free. So, he too preached a liberation theology, and it greatly angered those that sought to keep the status-quo. He said that they were stiff-neck fools, or they were like pristine sepulchers on the outside but filled with dead men's bones on the inside. Many in White America pretend to be righteous and fair, and some even claim to know God's word. There are many outrages things said and done in the Bible by God's prophets. Do you reject them too? And, aren't you afraid of offending God's commandment to be longsuffering, and the one about not touching my anointed and do my ministers no harm? People of faith are totally rejecting their faith by totally ignoring one of God's most important instructions, judge not one another.

I for one am somewhat sad that Barack rejected his Shepherd and did not weather the storm, but that's a politician for you, and he is a very good politician. God's ways and thoughts are not the same as ours. Perhaps it was a test for Barack not to distance himself from the man of God. So, if Jesus says don't judge, than don't. Many of you thought you knew Bush's heart; only God alone knows the heart of men.

Let's look at this influence issue of Wright and Obama in an intelligent manner. If Dr. Wright has influence on the Senator?s life when did it start? Has it ended yet? Does it mean that he is responsible for Barack attending Harvard Law School? Is he responsible for Barack and Michelle being selected as two of Harvard?s top 50 alumni (Obama is ranked 4th)? Did Wright influence him to thumb his nose at the wealth that a Harvard Law School grad could earn in the private sector? Or did he influence him to work with poor and disenfranchised people as our Lord commanded us to do?

It just may have been God's plan all along to reveal the plight and heart of Black America on a national level, we don't know. We do know that Obama was an athlete, distinguished scholar, Editor of Law Review at Harvard, an author of 3 books, and a State and U.S. Senator. Yet, many think he may want to follow a path of liberation or freedom for all people in the future; they say we don't really know him. Is liberation a bad concept in free America? They believe that Dr. Wright's outrageous liberation theology may have influenced barack negatively. Their experience in America is not our experience. Another good man is crucified by a those who see themselves as judge and jury; it is a verbal lynching by White America.

You can?t have it both ways! Either Dr. Wright influenced the Senator for all or some part of 20 years, or he didn't. If you want to charge Wright with some imaginary flaw that may or may not surface in Obama's future, then you must also credit him with all of his past deeds and accomplishments over the last two decades. It pains me that people are influence so easily by what is said or done by those close to Obama. I feel White America is planning to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Booker

Assuming that Barack Obama is attending Rev. Wright's church for Spiritual Reasons and not just to score points in his community, and Assuming that he has the Spiritual maturity to distinguish true Biblical Teaching from rhetoric, I think that one of three things must be the case:

1) Barack Obama, after knowing the man who lead him to Faith in Jesus Christ for 20 years, has somehow never realized the utter distaste and hatred that Rev. Wright has for America. In that case, Obama is Stupid.

2) Barack Obama has heard similar rhetoric many times before. He has never been called on it, nor has he had so much to lose by being associated with it. Now its time for him to turn-tail and deny the whole thing. In that case, Obama is False.

3) Obama basically agrees with Rev. Wright. He agrees with his friend and Spiritual leader for the past 20 years, and while Barack might not have said the same thing, he agrees with it in principal. That is the scariest thing, and viewed with Michelle Obama's "I have never [before] been proud of this country" comment from last month, it paints a disturbing picture of the man who may be our next president. Its a picture of a community that disdains our country, and Barack Obama is the product of that community. If that is the case, at least Obama is true to himself, but is a man to be pitied.

4) THE OBAMA EXPLANATION: Barack Obama has never heard anything like this before out of Rev. Wright, despite numerous sermons that at least hit at the same theme even if they don't use the same words. If Obama had, he would have quit the church (something he has yet to do).

Could it be another explanation? I am open to suggestions.

David,

While I agree with you very much regarding 'church hopping,' I'd want to push this a bit more. Part of the reason this whole thing has created such an upheaval is because traditional American liberalism cultivates and encourages a strong sense of character as rooted in personal choice, individual decisions, or autonomous judgment. Of course those on the right who are already set against Obama will ask "Why didn't he leave? He must be a dangerous man!" But those on the left--educated, tolerant, liberals--also find it problematic that Obama just didn't get up and leave the church, for religion, if it has a place in this mindset, is a 'personal' matter and the idea that one would sit under an authority figure that says such controversial stuff is hard for the liberal mind to grasp.

This whole incident has really reinvigorated my respect for Obama--the man understands 'congregationalism'--that is, the idea of being committed to a community for the long haul even as one retains one's individual judgment. I think many American liberals have a hard to time with this because of a suspicion of strong community commitment and the authority structures that are so often a part of local communities.

As a pastor myself, I'd just like to say that often by noon on Mondays (today!)I don't agree with half of what I myself said the day before. Heck, on Mondays it's often mid-afternoon before I can even affirm the existence of God.

One thing that is rarely discussed is how often Rev. Wright made the sort of comments that have become embarrassing. It may have been a small percent, something Obama could have missed a lot of or thought outweighed by better things. But remember, Obama will be talking more about this issue soon.

Why are we so aftraid to hear from true men of God today? Why are we not afraid to deride and ridicule them?

One of the most notable misinterpretations of westernized Christianity is the belief that church and state should remain separate. Is that what Jesus meant in Matthew 22:20-21? I don’t think so. The Pharisees sought to trap Jesus with a political question, in hopes that he would commit treason against Rome and be put to death. They asked him if it was lawful to give tribute to Caesar. He asked them whose portrait was inscribed on the coin that they intended to use to pay the tribute. When they replied Caesar's, he simply said, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.” Separation of church and state is a concept that originated in the West, not the East. In no way does that Scripture support such a ridiculous concept.

The Pharisees thought Jesus would fall into their trap because the notion of religious values being different from those of the state was and is unthinkable in Eastern culture. Jesus taught that serving two masters could never work. He taught that we would hate one and love the other, or that we would be devoted to one and despise the other. So, if spiritual principles and values were different from those of the state then that would mean serving two masters. This teaching is similar to the one given by Jesus to Nicodemus. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

This separation of church and state is simply camouflage for the state to exist outside of the laws of God. That is why racism, sexism, imperialism, and every other kind of “ism” is alive and well in America. Our systems of government — political, judicial, educational and economical — can never survive, because they are operating outside of spiritual law.

Separating the church from the state is Satan’s presentation, not God’s recommendation. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ. In fact it takes away from God's authority and gives it to man. Jesus never intended for the state to operate independently of the church. His teachings were never limited to only a part of society; they were holistic and meant for the whole of humanity. Caesar represents material life. Jesus represents spiritual life. Caesar represents man. Jesus represents God. Caesar represents birth and death. Jesus represents eternal life.
Booker