Meet Barack Dobson

DAVID! GREAT to hear your reasonable voice AGAIN! I went out to Envision at Princeton hoping to catch up with you - you no show! Rumor was you'd started a Christian nudist colony in Iceland! Trust you've thawed out and, seriously, I pray you're well.

Why do I see this Obama/Dobson thing as a way for Dobson to remind the faithful he's still around and could sure use their money to fund his empire? How else can one explain such a complete misread of the speech Obama gave at Sojo/Call to Renewal in 06 than as an attempt to inject his waning influence into a campaign that features another old man vs. a representative of those more conversant w/ a post-modern conversation.

At least Obama, to my knowledge, doesn't torture family pets.

That's one difference ;-P

So glad you're back, hope you're well.

I always thought the Bible was the book of Hope, Faith and Love. Dr. Dobson has shown the world that his Faith is not in the democratic process, his Hope is in "none of the above", and his love is not for anything that remotely disagrees with his judgemental and dogmatic theolosophy.

Between the two, Obama has taken the high road again and again. I don't agree with Obama on a fair number of things but if I must choose between fairness and "Righteousness" of the demons of war, poverty, and neglect, I guess Obama makes more sense than Dobson.

In fact, McClain was so slow on the up take when it came to California's Gay Marriage ruling that I wonder if he could make a major decision if a crisis did accrue. The more I listen to the two of them, the more I am worry about the future. But not as much as I cry for the past eight years of bad leadership.

p.s. glad you came back. I may not agree with you but I like to read your thoughts.

Welcome back, David. I pray you are well.

Dobson didn't build the "empire" you reference without being shrewd. So it's surprising how transparent his ulterior motives are in this controversy. Whether Dobson's concern was his marginalization within the Republican party, or his total lack of relevance among younger evangelicals (as Jim Wallis argues elsewhere on Beliefnet), no one seriously thinks Dobson is concerned about what Obama did in 2006. And in the process, he probably did Obama a favor-- if any of Dobson's listeners were under the mistaken impression that Obama is a Muslim, Dobson inadvertently set them straight.

I disagree with you on Obama. It's legitimate for a politician to explain how faith informs his/her policy positions. It's when faith is used as a wedge issue, in defiance of Christ's plea that "[we] may all be one," that faith becomes a political idol. But that's just my opinion, and you have a lot more experience behind your opinion than I have behind mine.

It looks like BHO is going to be our next President, in which case we'll all have to pray that David is wrong, and I am right. I guess stranger things have happened!

Peace.

Larry, I don't follow your suggestion that David is "mean-spirited" in his commentary? Please elaborate. Mean-spirited to/about whom?

Another interesting comparison here:

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/DavidRStokes/2008/06/29/carter,_obama,_and_the_evangelicals?page=full

cheers, Paul

This is a surprisingly simplistic view of the Obama/Dobson discussion, and kind of a cop out. I'm glad to see Obama engage here, for too long the voice of Christians in the public square has been the Dobsons, Falwells and Robertsons of the world.

Holy cow dude.
Seriously.
This is why I love you.
Los

Politicians do this because it works, and because it's become necessary to flash their faith about if they want to win office.

Who's responsible for that? The American public.

Welcome back, David. You've been missed.

"Both men see their religious faith as one of their primary political weapons. They take that faith and move in opposite directions, but their philosophy, their spirituality is very similar."

I don't see how a comparison of the two speeches can lead to this conclusion. To paraphrase, Obama stated that, in a democracy, an argument from faith must be sufficiently based in the interests of all persons - whether they share that faith or not - to be made into law. Dobson somehow took this to mean that he had no right to his beliefs.

I, too, am not so naive as to think Obama does not play up his faith for political reasons - not the least of which is to blunt the ever-present rumor that he is a Muslim. That said, Obama appears to take his faith as a starting point from which to craft just laws. Dobson takes his beliefs as an end point, and is working towards the day when his particular beliefs are enshrined in law. I find that very different indeed.

David--this is ridiculous. You are essentially saying that anyone who takes issue with Obama's religious views is doing so for political points or, in your words, "material ends," as though the substance of Obama's theological views and views of Scripture are not really that important. Having read the text of Obama's speech, and compared it with Dr. Dobson's comments about it, I find that Dr. Dobson is correct--Obama's speech was rife with distortions of Biblical teaching, a complete mis-reading of American history, and utterly misleading regarding the purposes specifically expressed by America's founders. For you to seek to marginalize Dr. Dobson's comments as merely an attempt to garner some political advantage is absurd. My reading of Dr. Dobson's comments was that, if Obama is going to spout off regarding America's spiritual, theological and religious roots and contemporary expression of same, it should be based in fact, not fiction. Obama's speech was neither factual nor accurate. Since I have found Dobson's comments to ALWAYS be based in verifiable and documented materials, your insinuation that Obama and Dobson share the same spiritual and philosophical basis is ludicrous.

Dear David,

It's nice to have you back.

Regarding your commentary about Dobson and Obama, I couldn't disagree more. Dobson's multi-million dollar media empire is quite clearly based upon bitter partisanship and harmfully narrow political agendas (such as Bush's 3 trillion dollar preemptive War & Torture machine in Iraq).

As for Obama, you simply can't put him in the same category. Obama is *not* a "left" version of Dobson, and you'll need to do much more work when profiling these two figures. I don't find your evaluation convincing, and I've seen much more thoughtful work from you.

At any rate, you've been missed, and I look forward to future blog posts.

It sad to see a man like Dobson public attacking a person of "authority". He should pray for leaders.He said he knew the bible. Politics makes for a mean God. The religious right has made the republican party their God. Abortion and gay rights is an excuse to vote for war mongers. Many christians are still defending the war in Iraq,even thoughj the PUBS has admitted it was a mistake. John hagar and others endorsed MacCain even though Mac does not admit being born again. Church goers are confused ,because their leaders are bought by the GOP. The' great Commission is long ago lost to the church.

Dobson -not a theologian or minister - don't think he's a constitutional lawyer either. just a sort of guy who finds and reports who we are to hate for Jesus. Sorry, the more I read of this guy, the more I know he is more interested in scapegoating violence than anything else. Obama - read his first book - the one he read before politics was on the horizon. Then read Dobson's self revelations.
One was transformed by faith an the other allowed the language of faith and religion to cover over a very sick and sadistic worldview. I spent yesterday reading both of them. Such comments that Obama is materialistic or phony reveal something about the people who make the accusations rather than the people who are being accused. Karl Rove accuses him of being like "the guy in the country club" - Obama spent ten years in church basements helping people who were poor and desperate and angry - solve problems and organize. Karl rove was the cynical guy with a drink at the country club. Obama was carrying the big cooler full of water or lemonade for meetings in those church basements. Don't know who you're hanging around David, but this whole post is not worthy of you.
My primary complaint about Obama right now is that he is moving to the center so fast my head is spinning and thus losing a momentum that creates involvment of others. Dobson never moves out of a mean spirited perverted form of conservatism - that is unworthy of most of the good conservatives that I know. Dobson gathers mobs by sending letters telling them that feminists or homosexuals are coming to get em. I've received at least 2 dozen letters from the Obama campaign and none of them talk about who I'm supposed to be afraid of. For some reason, I also reason the occasional "Focus on the Family" mailing and it makes clear who the monsters are in Dobsonland.
We are to care for the poor, love one another, love God and know God's love for us. We are to transform the world and live beatitude lives - heck that keeps me humble all by itself. Instead of accusing politicians, let us be the inspiration for goodness. Mea culpa on accusations above. I'm gonna try to be positive.

Cudos for somewhat equivalating Obama and Dobson. Christians have to find a way to liberate ourselves from the political process while still making an impact on society. We need to get out of the master(government)/slave(church) dynamic we are in. Political appeals to the faithful feel like slave auctions.

Gerry, I don't think he was indicting all politicians. I think he was indicting politicians (and political/public figures) who try to use faith as a "tool for material ends." I'm sure he'd agree that there are many politicians who have good intent and are even doing fine work for the people they serve. But to use faith to, let's say, try to justify an unjust war - not so good.

Thanks, Canucklehead. Happy Canada Day, belatedly.

I'm sympathetic with what I take to be the impulse behind Mr. Kuo's post. In my opinion any faith group should be extremely wary of accepting government largesse in any form.

But I do take comfort in the following quote by Obama that seemed to be at least partly responsible for Dobson baring his fangs...

"Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. What do I mean by this? It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, to take one example, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all."

Good to have you back, Thinker.

For all his mistakes over the years, it was adultery that brought Rev. Jackson down. Not to trivialize adultery, but like C.S. Lewis, I think sins of the flesh are of the lowest order-- certainly not as grave as, say, anti-Semitism. In hindsight, it seems Jackson's standing with his core constituency rested largely on his status as a minister of the Gospel, and his affair with a young woman destroyed that status, at least in the eyes of his followers.

Jackson's comment on Fox, followed by harsh words of condemnation from his own son, will serve as a coda to his career. When Jackson dies (hopefully not for many years) and the news outlets serve up obituaries, this incident will likely stand as the final noteworthy moment of Jackson's public life.

Yeah - adultery was the big one - but his cynical and vindictive side doesn't allow for much repair. I agree that sins of the flesh are of the lowest order - apparently a bit exciting to put on TV and feel righteous about, but in the big scheme of things - silly. i'm wondering how many people regret their excitement over Clinton's moral lapses in light of the last eight years.
Gosh - when you make your own son distance himself in that way - you've lost the game.
Hey - is there a way to start a new subject line on here?

We miss you. Where are you?

It is apparent that this blog not active at the present time. Wish it was. However, because we have formed a community - wondering where and how we can continue to converse. Wonder about David, but no clue as to whether his health is OK - I suspect it it= or whether this became an overwhelming part of life and time was a problem. Or whether the guy is just on vacation. This is has been a good middle of the road and faithful place on Beliefnet. I find myself wondering what Doug or Donnie, Canucklehead or Aquaman or so many others might say about events going on. Heck, there have been days when the weird ol Canadian has sent me laughing to do the tasks of the day. And days, when Donnie has made smoke come out of my ears like in a cartoon. Doug always has a wise and cogent thought about things and now i feel like the coffee table around which we gather is gone. Well, I'm making chicken salad, strawberry iced tea and homemade rolls for conversations these days and wish you could share. My husband is particularly enamored with the chicken salad.
Last night we spent our evening at Catholic Worker house in the midst of a power outage. We served a great salad, bean soup, break, potatoes, carrots and fruit to 187 guests. Some were addicts, several were whores, some were disabled, a few were homeless vets, there were a couple of families with children. one young man had obviously not been out of prison very long and another came in joyfully - I'm so hungry and you are serving food - thank you" as he dived into. We prayed together, several acted as "crew' to clean up. It was the night that soap and toilet paper are distributed. I was gratified to find three former students either serving or living there as staff. There was mass about 9:00. As we walked to our car in that very "bad" neighborhood ( at least according to our friend who was very worried about it all) three men sat on the corner. They were dirty and carried their plastic bags with soap and lotion and toilet paper. They had been our guests for dinner. You know these guys - you pass them by most days and like me l- wonder if they are drunk or stoned or mentally ill. As we walked by they called us by name and thanked us for a nice supper "on a hot night". We stood there for a few minutes and talked about "people" things - the local baseball team, whether the "Chiefs" have a chance this year. it was a light and friendly conversation initiated by the three guys sitting with their plastic bags on the corner. They are not romantic figures. We are not saving figures. We were human beings who met over supper and now know one another's names. Suddenly gave me a new insight into Eucharist.

thanks Aquaman - I went over there - but it was a bit like going to Target when I'm accustomed to the corner dime store where I know everybody. But - I'll keep looking.
At any rate - I miss David - worry a bit - but I think he's OK. Really would like to hear Donnie's take on things - and Doug's -and Marlene's and Canucklhead and yours - feels a bit mournful when the gang breaks up.
Just call me sentimental.

However, what the heck is going on in this election? Read Stephen Mansfield's book on Obama's belief system - it was a very good book. He wrote a similar one about George Bush - both were respectful and there was no snarkiness. Always a good thing.
I just registered at fivethirtyeight.com as Thinker1 - Apparently there was already another Thinker. However, I haven't posted anything yet. Might post on Mansfield's books later in the weekend.
Will keep hoping this blog comes alive again.

OK - movies of the summer. One one has struck me - The Visitor. In a post 9/11 world a successful professor has lost his soul, his curiosity, his wife and the story of reconnecting to a world so dangerous and so wonderful is powerful. Can't think of a better movie in the last couple of years. I think it is coming out soon on video - since it was only in art houses this summer.

I am a supporter of Pro-choice and I believe by giving women the right to terminate an unwanted, unplanned, or physically hazardous pregnancy, we allow them the same rights as all other people in all other medical and social conditions. Forcing them to carry to full term jeopardizes their ability to have a healthy and fulfilling life.