A Challenge to Religious Liberals

Very well...I'll be happy to start off. In college I was "born again" and became active in a conservative Baptist church. Over the years my political, religious and personal views were formed by Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Alan Keyes, Rush Limbaugh, Charles Stanley, and a number of other stalwarts of the conservative/evangelical circle.

In the late 90s I suffered a "crisis of faith" and left Christianity for a time, almost 10 years.

In recent years I have found myself returning to the Christian faith, but with much more liberal views. Having switched from a Republican to a Green, from a Baptist to a UU, and from a staunch fundamentalist (very close to a KJV onlyist) to a progressive Christian, I am now reaching out to many of those same groups that I once condemned from the pulpit.

While I may well be among the minority in the group who responds to your challenge, I am quite content with the spiritual home I have found among stalwart, sincere people who share my political and religious beliefs.

I was raised in a Pentecostal/Salvationist home. Strict, hard-line conservative family - church 3 times a Sunday not counting Sunday School (with a 17-year perfect attendance record and the Robert Raikes 'diploma' to show for it), mid-week prayer service, youth group, choir practice, Crusaders, Daily Vacation Bible School, Church camps for holidays, Inter-School Christian Fellowship, Youth for Christ. I doubt anyone could have had a more conservative Christian upbringing.

I 'left the church' during my university years (though I did choose to go to a Lutheran University). But I still loved "the Church", and Christ's message of love.

When I did re-join "the Church", it was in one of the most liberal imaginable - the Metropolitan Community Church. It exemplifies Christ's message, imo, and is passionate about social justice. I have served faithfully in it - a deacon (appointed for life, served actively for 10 years), as a sign language interpreter (18 years), on the board of directors (4 years), in AIDS ministry (12 years, and the first - of any kind - in our very large metropolitan area). And more. And my marriage (same-sex and legal and recognized by the government where I live) took place in my new church. My pastor was my best man. (I've known him longer than I've known my husband.)

"Did your spiritual recommitment translate into changed political views?"

Yes, but not in the way you imagined. The complete 180 degrees opposite, in fact. I see Jesus as a very progressive, liberal ativist, one who's message is anathema to the "right".

So much for your 'theory'. In my experience, you would lose your "bet", David. And I know many with very similar stories to tell.

Three out of three. (Kevin didn't answer the challenge.)

You'd better call some of your uber-conservative friends and have them post their stories for some balance, David. Your "law" seems preposterous. As usual.

I used to be secular and very liberal. Then I become convinced that Orthodox Judaism was true, and began reading and trying to live by Breslover Hassidic literature. I have become more conservative in some ways. Before I shared the liberal critiques of Israeli policy, but now I strongly support Israel (I'd consider voting for Ichud Leumi if I could vote there!) I'm no longer in favor of gay marriage, though I still have nothing wrong with civil unions.

However, I'm still quite liberal on most issues. I support a strong welfare state, designed to cut poverty, ensure universal access to health care, and encourage people to get jobs. I support dramatically improved environmental protections, including the quite ambitious goals of retooling our social organization so that your average person is much more likely to walk, bike, or take a bus to work, and likely to eat more plants than meat. I also think we should be highly regulating and restricting pesticide use and confined animal operations.

Even if you can derive a general personal responsibility ethic out of Jewish law, I don't think that means the government can't intervene, even in quite expensive and activist ways, when doing so would have positive consequences on the quality of life and people's behavior. People need to take responsibilities for their actions, but we also need to help people gain the tools have the right circumstances for learning how to act responsibly. A small, reticent government constrained by artificial, ideological limitations will not be successful at this. Government should experiment in solving social problems (in collaboration with private parties), evaluating the success of their efforts in a hard-nosed empirical way, and stopping, expanding, or changing their efforts in response. I don't see the conservatives promoting this pragmatist approach to government; instead, they denounce certain policies, like welfare, based on anecdotes and other shards of evidence, in a really stiff ideological way. Liberals can also be doctrinaire and too forgiving of irresponsibility, but it's really only liberals (and maybe centrists) who are willing to give the government a chance to improve society with an a experimentalist, empiricist, and collaboration and partnership oriented good government ethos. I'm not happy with Obama's Israel policy but otherwise I think the model of a modestly activist, self-critical state is right on.

I think liberals who become religious on average probably become somewhat more conservative, but the reason is not inherent to religion -- which in all its forms is compatible with well-designed welfare schemes, for example. Instead, the reason is that secular liberals (like religious conservatives) are very doctrinaire, and figure they ought to side with their "side" on every issue. Religious people are confronted with other perspectives in their coreligionists, and so they come to believe that it's OK and defensible to have other views. Then when they rethink their beliefs in a less constrained way (and perhaps influenced by some new values, like say pro-life if you're talking about Catholics), they come up with new results, which are usually more toward the middle.

By the way, I really hugely enjoyed your book The Lord Will Gather Me In, and I wasn't bothered by the political aspect, even though I didn't always share your views. I also support your intelligent design work -- despite all the abuse of Charles Johnson and his ilk.

David, I have to wonder if its a return to religiion that makes one more conservative (if that is what happens) or if its becoming more conservative that causes one to return to religion. I guess we'll never be certain without a large sample. In either case, it is my opinion that the God of the Bible is a pretty conservative God. Still, I wonder where He would come down on issues like immigration.

I do belive that God is very much interested in personal responsibility. Even in passages such as II Chronicles 7:14, the call for "My people" to humble themselves, and pray, etc., are actions that ultimately can only be taken by individuals. So many times we read of Israel (or Judah) turning away from God and suffering as a result, while there was always a remnant that remained faithful. Again, an individual choice.

I guess I haven't really helped on the small anecdotal sample. Sorry. :-)

I was raised "Jewnitarian" and have become a more observant Jew, though certainly not an Orthodox one. My liberal politics haven't changed at all. However I must admit that sometimes the conservative bent of many Jewish institutions, particularly in regards to Israel/Palestine issues, has made me feel uncomfortable and sometimes unwelcome.

And I know of some cases of Protestants and Catholics where increased religious observance and/or religious fervor has led to folks becoming way more liberal or even radical. Have you ever heard of liberation theology? Have you heard of Dorothy Day, or ever met any of the folks active in the Catholic Worker Movement? I met very religious Catholics in Central America who may have been socially conservative on some issues but were way left-wing on economic issues.