I NEED A CONSTITUTIONAL

And we also know that in many circumstances American law permits abortion, but in no circumstances does American law require it. It seems to me if one is genuinely pro-life, one goes beyond the issues of criminalization and on to the provision of services to expectant mothers and mothers with infants and young children. But it is so much easier just to say "there ought to be a law," as long as it applies to someone else.

I MUST correct Rev Lynn's following statement: "We do know that Jewish law didn't even treat striking a woman and causing her to have a miscarriage as "murder"."

We read the Hebrew Law concerning violence in Exodus 21:22-25. It says the exact opposite of what Barry Lynn says above. To be shorter, I will paraphrase (but please feel free to read the original for yourself!). It says that if men fight and cause a pregnant woman to give birth prematurely the punishment is determined by whether the child lives or not. If it lives, the punishment is set by whatever her husband imposes and the offender shall pay as determined by the judges. If the child dies then the law is clear: "you shall give life for life..."

Considering that this statement is 100% opposite of the Word of God...why should anyone believe what this man says in his other statements on the subject?????

Ann, where do you get your information? From the Laura Ingram or Ann Coulter cookbook? Hebrew Law?? There is no such thing. It is called Jewish Law or Talmudic Law (rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law). Hebrew is a language, like English or French. Also the Bible is not a good translation of the Torah. Often phases, like you and Rev. Lynn quoted are misread, and misinterpreted. The general Jewish belief (of Exodus 21:22-25) is that if two men who are fighting end up striking a woman with child, and it causes a birth, and the child and the mother live, then they pay a fine. If either the child or the mother (or both) die then the punishment fits the "eye for an eye".

But since you are a Christian you don't know or aren't versed in Jewish (Talmudic) Law. In Judaism a child is not a life until he or she is born. In Judaism, until there is a birth, the child is not considered a life. So, indirectly, through this, abortion is not the taking of a life to the Jew. Ask any Rabbi.

Ann, you really need to get off your religious high horse, stop calling people liars, and study your facts a bit better.

to Glen....
1.)Q> " where do you get your information? From the Laura Ingram or Ann Coulter cookbook?"
A> From my study of the Bible and various other sources...I've heard of one of those people and read no books by either.

2. Q> "Hebrew Law?? There is no such thing. It is called Jewish Law or Talmudic Law (rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law). Hebrew is a language, like English or French."
A> I'm referring to the same thing, Old Testament Laws...You're splitting hairs with the comment. It's my understanding that, yes - of course, Hebrew is a language...but it was also the name of the ethnic group of people and that the name of the religion was Judaism - therefore they were Jewish. Sort of like the English speak English; the French speak French.

3.) I also believe that many times the original has not been translated as well as it should have. It is for this reason that I have several translations and a huge concordance to study with. It did not help with this particular verse, but your explanation does agree with the conclusion I was able to draw. Thank you for that.

4.) "Ann, you really need to get off your religious high horse, stop calling people liars, and study your facts a bit better."
I'm sorry if you really think that is my attitude. It isn't and the only time I 'called anyone a liar' here was in response to the blanket statement made about all Christian conservatives earlier that did not accurately represent me ...& I'd have to call myself both a Christian and a conservative.
My reference about Rev Lynn here was not intended to call him a liar, but to disagree with his statements. I have not specifically studied the Jewish historical perspective on abortion and so made the point that I was not willing to blindly believe his statement on it when I disagree with his other statement. That does not mean I think he's a liar...it means I think that we're probably going to come to different conclusions.

GEE, it would be nice to be able to discuss things without misunderstandings of motives and attitudes, wouldn't it? Then maybe the conversatins would at least allow us to have a more true understanding of our different perspectives.

i know some information about a situation in california where a individuals civilliberties have been a continued to be violated by a federal goverment employee. from what i knowthis has been happenning for serveral years now. this individual has used his position with the federalgoverment for hispersonal bandetta against this individual. i don't knowif you are familiar with the executive order president bush signed back in 2002-2004 establishing a program called the gsa. well under this programs guideline after the 911 incident the intentions were to established a system of communication between the fderal goverment and sate and local goverment including the general population. you can look-up the details i believed they executive order 1389&1390 plus some other ones. a lot of monies have been expent on establishing the program in california especially in the riverside county area more especifically in the city of corona where this individual lives. but the problem is that this fed employee or what its called the director of the program aded the extra twiss of using it for the last almost five years to persecute this person with the complete knowledge of local and county goverment this persons has been stocked what i mean is constantly follow everywhere he goes day or night telephone conversation, internet, cell phones, automobile all being tapped. this person has notbeing abletomake a moved or contact any outside agency for assistance that its the reasons it has gone on for so long if you asked me what was the perpouseor what he was hoping to achieve with what i called physoclogical warfare maybe drive the individual insane i don't really know what. the over all concept of the program is leginimate. but what it has being used for its not. it is a complete violation of the constitutional rights of this person. i know that every six months or so this director of the the program whom i believe at the moment to be a Mr. Alexander has to submitt a report to congress and the president of the us thru the secretary of homeland security. right now the programs has received a budget thru 2013. what i hope but i am not sure of is if the federal goverment is aware of what has being taking place. thru the program what has taken place is a cospiracy by local city and county goverment and also the civilian population who participate it. of course no one does anything for free so there is where all the benefits come to play. i have obtain all of the details of this situation including names, web site links, the program participants names and pictures all of the details. if your are willing to help this por soul out of this atrocity he/she has being subject to i will provide you all necessary documentatio that ihave attained. this is not a joke an i am not a pramkster. you may contact me at 951-454-5845 or my emailaddress dmhomes@gmail.com or even better come to see me in person at 1414 wigeon drive corona, ca 92882. i hope someone outthere does take notice of this situation and do something about it or help mehelp this person. thanks