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Please note that in discussing political issues, candidates’ positions and political party statements, the Rev. Barry Lynn and Jay Sekulow are offering analysis in their individual capacities as lawyers and commentators. They are not speaking on behalf of Americans United for Separation for Church and State or for the American Center for Law & Justice. Those organizations do not endorse or oppose candidates for public office. Nothing contained in this dialogue should be construed as the positions of the respective organizations.
Jay, you are so right about this being "better than any of the network debates." The posing of the same questions without the other hearing the answers was not about personality or "charisma" but rather about substance. The networks could learn a lot from this format.
Religion of God (Rab)
Human Faith is a religious of God (Rab) of humanity (Rabi). The definition of humanity (Rabi) in our faith is the quality of being humane and respectful for life. The Nine Affirmations of human faith are the commandment of God (Rab) of Humanity (Rabi). The crime against the Nine Affirmations is blasphemy and great disrespect for our God (Rab) of humanity (Rabi).
Human Faith is heavenly light of knowledge restriction on sacred light is eclipse on humanity and blasphemy.
1. We believe all people are entitled to freedom, peace and justice. We will do all that we can to see these rights are promoted and protected in the current century.
2. We believe any kind of negative discrimination such as racism, sexism and religious persecution are crimes against humanity. We cannot endorse sole progression of man from animal as it rejects spiritual evolution. We will respect all human kind.
3. We believe in freedom of the press and object to media censorship. We believe we have the responsibility to stay informed and the right to have resources for this available without restrictions.
4. We reject war, terrorism and arms build ups as they are plagues on mankind and the environment.
5. We support and encourage efforts to preserve and protect the environment. Air and water pollution, unbridled harvesting of fossil fuels and loss of habitat need to be stopped. We are commit to do our part by recycling and curbing wasteful habits. We recognize our responsibility to future generations in this regard.
6. We believe we must provide education worldwide in health and family planning. We must foster respect for life and accept responsibility for the offspring we create. Programs facilitating border less adoptions need to be encouraged.
7. We believe everyone is entitled to a good quality of life including clean water and air, energy availability for home and commerce and a healthy diet. Every nation and its leaders must be accountable that these needs are met.
8. We will respect all life including animal rights and insist on their protection and humane treatment in food preparation entertainment and sports.
9. We are honest in all our dealings and we respect the dignity of others. We will instill these beliefs in our children in order to promote happiness and peace.
Human faith religion starts from the premise of humanity which is more than a physical face and biological organism. It is the religious consciousness in which matter of human soul is in the prison camp of human body. It is a wisdom that can only be obtained from the nature of God (Rab). It is a stage of awareness where purity of living in the physical senses without bias. Human faith is the last stage of human evolution. The fundamental links in our spiritual and material evolution that changed us from violent to sober human being is the element of love . We know this element of love was created before the universe for human evolution and it can not be separated from the soul .True love (Rabi) is part of human soul in which strong devotion is created for another soul in environment where matter meet for human evolution . This element is not part of sexual desire nor matter of modernizations symbols of "Holy Pleasure" neither romance. This power of love is to teach respect of humanity .It is the power that controls the universe. When a baby cries the power of love force mother to nurse the baby. This is the same force when chicks open their eyes in the egg shell the same element forces them to use the beak to break the shell and fallow the mother nature. Human faith religious is a public school for humanity (Rabi) .The leisure of learning truth, honesty and freedom. It is the eminent brain (Rabi) for batter society and the library of knowledge. It is the sacred water of life that emerges with the seven colors of human diversity to dissolve racism. Human life is spiritual force of affirmations in which nine sisters are the museum of humanity (Rabi). It is the religious in which muses is dedicated to the nine affirmation of human faith. The new principle in genetic segregation can grow better sex, height and color but with natural theological law of dominance can produce better psyche. Protein structure in human genes are playing vital important role for evolution from the beginning of the human faith of Adam for humanity. It is supernatural activity of chemical mutation based on theology. The rule of nature has shown better result for the offspring we create with the family values that are based on some kind of theology.
The posture of humanity (Rabi) needs direction of love (Rabi) to cure qualm and hate hypocrisy from monotheism and polytheism. The zeal of humanity is to diminish symbolism to prevail freedom from labyrinth ideologies of religious and political leaders for peace. We all human beings are the heart of humanity (Rabi) in which human faith religious is the xylem to dissolve distastefulness from monotheistic and polytheistic faiths. Humanity (Rabi) is theological evolution and logical process of supernatural system of Supreme Being, the theory of human faith religious is philosophy to evolve that human embryology is theological evolution and consciousness of supreme power (Rab). Human faith teaches not only moral values it can give realistic purpose of achieving complete fulfillment of internal life. The spiritual change from loneness to loveliness is based on love by giving unlimited trust in God (Rab). Human mind is miracle of Supreme Being when we struggle to boil it at luck warm temperature of wisdom to understand fundamental of life by reading (Rabi). The ever lasting stage of satisfaction for mind is to reach Supreme Being before death. The journey of memories can be pleasant with nine affirmations of human faith. We believe that it is time to joggle every conscious to show them that human mind is superior matter not material. The festival of life can be celebrated with wisdom of human faith knowledge once we realize that we all are part of the superior race. It advocates spiritual and moral principles on very high scales for the longest term in human history. It is time to modernize our faith by adopting true faith and educate mankind in accordance with basic principle of life. Our vision is to introduce true human religion by mobilizing communities and faiths around the world to improve people's lives .Our mission is to strength the bond of humanity (Rabi) by introducing human faith religion. Human faith is a religious of Adam's monotheistic faith and knows that God (Rab) is the creator and overseer of the universe at all the time and all matters. The waves of fresh air with small particles full of wisdom and oxygen of (Rabi) are in the air it is just matter of time when they touch the brain to change the heart.
IN GOD (Rab) WE TRUST WE HAVE FAITH IN HUMANITY (Rabi).
Rabi has many meaning in our language.
1. Rabi is Book of Human Faith.
2. Rabi is brain.
3. Rabi is humanity.
4. Rabi is our tongue.
with all due respect, he picked the "liberal" judges and it was not a sign of bipartisanship. if anything it was the complete opposite.
Better than any of the network debates is right! If you get your information only from watching TV news, network debates and "info-tainment" shows, you are getting a narrow, and "censored", view of the world (conservative views are slighted, ignored or misrepresented, except for Jim Lehrer's News Hour). There are other valuable points of view out there, which you can only get by listening to alternative media (Fox News on cable TV, radio talk shows, internet forums like this excellent one by Rick). As long as the major networks ignore much of what is going on in the evangelical community (here and overseas), they will continue to lose viewers, and revenue. As long as they continue to present the news reports concerning evangelicals (like Dr. James Dobson) poorly and with a lot of their own bias and misinterpretations thrown in, the trend of declining viewership will continue. Dr. Dobson's Focus on the Family organization has people that care for gays, and try to help those who want to change. But what is Katie Couric's slant on the report? -- her report seems to imply that Dr. Dobson contributed to the murder of Matthew Shepard, a gay person (google it - Wikipedia). That kind of deception is not news; it's an individual's own biased opinion, which is defaming to a great man who genuinely cares about people in pain (a goup of people who have been "loved" by ultra-liberals who will tell them only what they want to hear). Telling people only what they want to hear never did any good for anyone. It only gives them temporary peace.
McCain sat down for an hour long discussion about his faith and did not mention Jesus once.
Also, the #1 biblical test for qualification for leadership is: Yo must be the husband of one wife. A true christian would know that "putting away" his first wife totally cancels out his Vietnam heroism.
McCain showed that he is like most republicans, they say what the religious right wants to hear every four years. Remember Reagan? A pro-choice VP, and then pro-choice Sandra Day for the bench, who was generation long swing vote against doing anything about Roe V. Wade. In thirty-six years since Roe, the republican have had 6 of the 9 presidents in office and what have they done?
Rick Warren should have followed up McCain's comment about those liberal supreme court justices with the question, "Which ones did you vote to confirm?"
Then it might have been a substantive conversation.
One question that clearly demonstrated the character of each candidate and that was
When does human life begin.
McCain was direct, honest, and firm with "at Conception"
Obama on the other hand was vague and wishy washy. Clearly he will be pushed to an "abortion on demand" position if that is what is needed for him to win the nomination or election.
His vascillation on that issue will cost him the votes of most of the attendees . . and Obama needs them.
McCain with that terse response gained votes and respect from the audience and most Evangelical Christians.
All these moral issues boil down to a Church/State dichotomy. Do we need a constitutional amendment defining marriage in order to prevent Christians from wanting to marry their homosexual partners?
Do we need a federal law against abortion to prevent Christians from having extra-marital sex and unwanted pregnancies?
If these two questions are answered yes, than the Body of Christ is quite obviously failing in its mission to lead and shepherd its own people and it's preposterous to expect a secular state to govern a spiritual body.
If we answer no, then we must at least admit to ourselves that we are attempting to legislate the dictates or our faith upon the unbelieving lost.
At the risk of asking yet another question, I ask any conservative evangelical: Is the light of Christ to the lost best communicated through the edicts of a secular state?
Unfortunately, conservative evangelicals only see the right vs. wrong of the issue and I worry that they often neglect the personal responsibility of effecting change through witness, instead opting for a pretense of righteousness through a fervent demand for legislation.
Through this demand, they (evangelicals) are vilified by their detractors. Evangelical are considered unloving, ignorant and hypocritical. For example: Many evangelicals often fail to realize that those who are "Pro-Choice" are almost without exception opposed to abortion. The underlying issue is not whether abortion is wrong-both sides agree on this-but what should be the character and method for reducing the number of abortions? Obama touched on this at Warren's church when he suggested the importance of "reducing the number of abortions", but unfortunately (not only for him, but for all of us) he failed to explicate this nuance clearly.
"Also, the #1 biblical test for qualification for leadership is: Yo must be the husband of one wife. "
Guess that would cancel out guys like Jacob, David, and Solomon. And Jesus and Paul for that matter, since neither was the husband of one wife.
Regarding the statement on whether the Church or Christians need legislation to keep their members from the transgressions of abortion-(KILLING BABIES), or from keeping Christians from wedding their homo partner is a good spin and a (Loaded Question) point of view that is entirely not correct.
Christians are asking the secular government to preserve a basic right to a common morality that even a pagan will benefit from. A liberal may be better be able to understand it this way.
Like the Smoking Ban & Second Hand Smoke argument. Christians are asking the secular government to protect the country they have to live in (THE AIR SO TO SPEAK) from the Pollution of Moral decay of the secular unbelieving (The Darker Side of Americans morally or of the Devil)?
(THE SMOKE THAT WE ARE FORCED TO BREATH EVEN THOUGH WE MAKE A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO KEEP OUR LUNGS HEALTHY)
We as Christian Americans have to live among you unbelievers as you us. You are not forced to be a Christian and accept Gods will(CLEAN AIR) - Nor should I be forced to have to breath the pollutants of an evil and corrupt society that lack moral integrity and give tolerance of every evil and the Devils will.(SECOND HAND SMOKE)
Yes we should have protections from the effect of having to live and breath the secular worlds pollution and lack of Integrity.
Everyone who commits these errors deep down inside know they are Guilty of Sin whether they want to admit it of not and everyone reading this knows that to be TRUTH.
Except that 'evil', unless you think that you will be paying for other people's sins, the way 'second hand smoke' can give someone else cancer, the point doesn't apply.
Not even counting the idea that the secular world is pollution and lack of integrity, while the religious world is 'clean air'.
You do have a line with the 'second hand smoke'. The point where you PROVE that particular smoke is the direct cause of your cancer.
In other words, prove harm. When you prove harm, you can get something mandated or forbidden based ON that harm to others. And you don't even have to bring up the religious aspects. If you can't, then it isn't 'second hand smoke'. It is closer to something like 'fatty foods'. You may think it is unhealthy for them, but has got not one darn thing to do with you.
Thanks Bobby, unfortunately your arguments are different in kind. With regards to second hand smoke, there is empirical evidence that all would benefit from legislation, not only non-smokers (or non-christians for that matter).
With regard to the issues of gay marriage and abortion, we have movements spurred by Christians who are themselves largely unaffected by this legislation. Moreover, the empirical evidence behind these propositions is conspicuously lacking. You claim that even a pagan would benefit from this legislation, but offer no examples (though you provide paragraphs on how pagans benefit from the ban on second hand smoke).
There is no logical argument against homosexual marriage that stands any firm ground without appealing to emotion or an unjustifiable edifice of morality. You can appeal to the Bible and God (which I do) but this argument holds no weight for those who don't see the Bible or God as authoritative.
With regard to killing babies, I agree with you that abortion is a moral crime, but if we make it illegal how do we as a society address the plight of the disenfranchised and the truly horrific conditions encountered by those who still continue to seek abortion as a viable avenue? It is (dare I say) unchristian and immoral to simply criminalize those who still seek abortion, or do you intend to try them for murder and convict doctors who do the same?
Back to the issue at hand, what is the real reason why people seek to make gay marriage and abortion illegal? I want theft illegal because I don't want people to steal from me. I want murder illegal because I don't want to be killed. I want a second-hand smoking ban so I can breathe clean air.
Can you demonstrate how society benefits though a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman? Do we want to set a precedent for the first time in history that legally limits an individual's civil liberty rather than securing it?
Why is Jay Sekulow, a man who has been documented at having profited obscenely from creating divisiveness in our faith communities today, allowed to "represent" anything ??
This just gives cover to someone who is unworthy of a forum.
Yuck ! What a waste of words and space.
You wonder why a "Christian" Pastor, in a "Christian" church, interviewing two "Christian" men, would, in 120 minutes, NEVER ask either McCain nor Obama the most important questions: What do you believe the Bible is? Is it the Word of God or what? Is Jesus Lord for you? And if so, how would this effect what you would or would not do as President? Do you believe the Bible sets limits on what the civil government can do? If so, what are these limits?
This "Forum" was, alas, yet one more sad example of what passes today for "Christianity" but is NOT Christianity. The "Forum" did, however, prove one thing conclusively: From a Biblical/Christian perspective, neither Warren nor McCain nor Obama are qualified to hold any God-ordained civil government office because they are clueless re: what God requires of those who hold His civil government offices.
John Lofton, Editor, TheAmericanView.com
JLof@aol.com
I think Senator McCain's comment was very professional. He did not try to make a cheap shot at anyone by attacking their intelligence. Let's face it. Generally, if a person has been nominated as a Supreme Court Justice, the person most likely has a good head on their shoulders. Instead, McCain states the reason for his disapproval is that the Justices were pro-choice. No mudslinging here, nor is there a need to be.
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