THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE COURT WAS THE LAST GREAT PROTECTOR OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS...NOW NOT SO MUCH

Rev. Lynn. You're probably wasting your breath on Mr. Sekulow. He is so far right the everything looks left to him (and his boss).

The religious right does not want the individual to have the right to choice with respect to religion. It is either buy into the group thought or get thrown out by the group. The leader of the group does not want the individual to have the power of choice, as it chips away at the power base of the leader of the group.

We need balance on the court that represents the rights of the individual, and individual choices. That is what the founding fathers decided upon. The individual has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not the group. Group thinkers do not want the individual to be empowered. As I said in a previous post the individual has to have the freedom to make the choices, and the individual has to live with the choices.

Biden supports the individual, and not the group. Alito, and Roberts both have a mixed view of the Constitution, and what powers are conveyed to the group, and what powers are conveyed to the individual. When they favor the group, the individuals loses. When a justice has this point of view they set constrictive laws in motion. I agree with the actions Biden took.

When the court rules in favor of the group the individuals lose freedoms, and liberties.

I don't understand how anyone can call themselves a Reverend and be for murder.
We do not have a "living" Constitution. If it was "living" then the founding fathers would not have made it so difficult to change. It is no more "living" then the Bible.
Again, how does one call themselves a Christian, A Reverend and yet be for murder? With a line of reasoning that allows that, I believer that you are even worse than Lot. You are actively engaged in areas that are diametrically oppose to the Word of God.

Once again.. Barry Lynn has a divinity degree from a University, and is a reverend by the rules of his denomination.

Espousing positions you like doesn't change a person's credentials.

Of course, Glen, basically most things shared here are going to be someone's opinion & we're all entitled to ours. I'm here to share my beliefs, perspective and understanding of current issues. I do hope that something I've said will make someone see a different perspective and maybe even rethink some ideas they've held about others. My perspective comes from those Judeo-Christian beliefs I referred to earlier. But, I can understand where you're coming from also.

However, I don't get how you can say "But then you buy into the group, and not the individual."
For one thing, you don't know me. If you did, you'd know that I haven't forgotten the individual's rights. I have a huge amount of empathy for the woman who finds herself in an unwanted situation. Still, I've heard Many first-hand accounts of what a traumatic situation women & young girls find themselves in when they've taken the easier way out of the situation by having an abortion. In spite of what the media would lead us to believe many still make 'the choice' without being adequately informed first. I hurt for that woman dealing with the emotional fall-out of having had an abortion and then realizing what she's done. My only response is not 'oh well, she'll have to live it' even if it is the truth.

But anyway, the overzealous focus that many have on an individual's rights is somewhat misplaced. Our Judeo-Christian founded government wrote a Bill of Rights. If you read the actual wording you must surely come away with the understanding that while we are given certain rights by God that no man can take away, we can NOT use this as an excuse to harm another...in other words, our personal rights DO NOT give us the right to harm another human being in the exercise of those rights. Abortion Does exactly that (as we both agreed). THAT is why it should be legislated...in truth, abortion really isn't any different than infanticide. (by the way - Obama supports that one too even though the abortion rights group don't even argue for it) I say that I am for individual rights when I make a stand on behalf of the individual children who can't make their own voices and desire to live heard.

I have a hard time believing that a woman's right to choose to end her baby's life is even what's REALLY behind the abortion rights movement anyway. It's not like a woman is 'looked down on' today for being pregnant out of wedlock. It's not the only solution to the woman's dilemma... there are many infertile couples whose heart's desire is to adopt a baby... but there aren't enough left alive to fill that need. I believe that what's really the issue here is the big business of abortion on demand...there are huge amounts of money at stake and the abortion industry does not want to lose that revenue.

As for 'religion' I agree. Organized religions are pretty much this: men trying to work their way to God and they've all done a lot of things wrong. It is my belief that the Bible teaches us this: God wants to restore people to having a spiritual connection (relationship) directly with Him... NOT blindly follow the rules of another man or an organization.

I do agree that we'll all answer to a higher being. I'm also saddened that you seem to believe that ours are not the same. Not to change the subject, but I only know of 1 fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity {there's more than that among different denominations ;-) }.... That difference being the Jewish belief that you are awaiting the Messiah's incarnation -and- the Christian belief that the Messiah has two incarnations (first time as the suffering Messiah and second time as the Reigning Messiah) and that the first appearance was done in the person of Jesus(Yeshua). There is Much more that's the same about Jewish and Christian beliefs than there is different. I think it only takes honest sharing for that to be seen.

ds0490...
I've seen several of your comments (including the one of yours that you copied the middle paragraph from) and I have to say that - to me, they've shown either a lack of deep understanding of the issue at hand or else an unwillingness to accept that a Christian (or a conservative) could ever have a legitimate argument in anything.

For the first thing you mention to happen ...does not require that the second must also. Who is pushing an 'initiative' - I simply support the END of government supported (and many times, funded) termination of innocent lives for the sake of convenience AND the BIG BUCKS made by the abortion industry. Why is it that you think there must be "a new series of programs"?...Government programs, I presume? This is not the only option, however...

Yes, it would be 'a fair trade' as YOU put it. By the way, this conservative IS compassionate towards those in rough situations AND also IS NOT rich. I just also know that our Constitutional rights do not give us the right to harm another human and that's what abortion does (to put it mildly).

The thing is this...it isn't the government's job to be involved in every single aspect of life. It is the government's job to govern this nation by laws built on what the MAJORITY believe and want...not to buckle to a militant minority or special interest groups.

However, the far better option in this issue would be for women who find themself in a difficult situation to be TRULY helped (as opposed to victimized by the abortion industry) through a rough time. There are many outreaches doing that in place now and I firmly believe that if every woman (and young girl) who feel that abortion is their only realistic option weren't able to have an easily obtained abortion on demand many more would be founded. There's also the aspect of how other options would save the woman from self-recrimination, etc... later. This is an aspect of abortion on demand that isn't widely admitted to in our society, but there are many who've experienced this and talked about it ...if anyone's really concerned about the truths surrounding abortion.
There are Many families who would dearly love to adopt a baby born from an unwanted pregnancy. Of course the big business of infertility clinics wouldn't like that option, would they? and no, I'm not against someone going that route if they choose either. I just believe that there are couples who can't find a baby to adopt and then spend outrageous sums of money repeatedly on this chance and still don't get a baby from it.
Actually, it's my belief that part of God's purpose for His Church is reach out to people in all kinds of situations and problems ...and the church should've been doing much more of that all along and not leaving it until the government had to try & meet those needs. Yes, I'm a Christian too!

ds048/ann. Whoa, both of you.. Abortion clinics federally funded ? Abortion industry? The only funds I know of are for woman's clinics and the dissemination of information. And I have never seen a convention for the Abortion Industry. These are common lies I have heard the Pro-Life people spew for years.

Not one of the several woman's clinics I have seen and visited is abortion pushed over pro-life. Usually there is a balance of information for both sides, and the woman in most cases must be counseled before the provider will even consider providing an abortion.

It is very common for the Pro-life people to distort this and claim that all abortion clinics do not provide this, and that, in and of itself is a lie. I used to sell medical billing systems, and so I got to see more than the average person does of clinics.

Every religion I know of preaches of Charity, and to perform Tzedakah. But some take it a step further, and require missioning as part of the dictates of the group. They tell their parishioners that it is their duty to save souls, and increase the membership of the church. I have lost count how many time I have been told that my soul is bound for eternal damnation, because I am no Christian, and frankly I am sickened by that type of religious arrogance I see around me.

Ann, a fairly recent study released by Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good shows that the most effective way to reduce the number of abortions in this nation has been to address the issues of health care and the economy. Steve Waldman speaks about it on his blog this morning.

blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/08/can-social-spending-reduce-abo.html

My point is that conservatives (and I put many evangelical Christians into this group) seem to have an "all or nothing" position when it comes to abortions. The Democrats, many progressive groups, and yes, many liberal Christian groups, seem more focused on the unborn children rather than the political situation. And yes, some seem to want the abortion issue to continue as a tool to activate the base.

We've been trying to change the laws for 25 years or better, Ann. Isn't it about time we do something different? Even if we only save 10% of those children by enacting some of these initiatives, isn't that worth it?

ds0490/RJohnson:
Speaking for myself on the abortion issue, there are so many more thoughts I have on it than I can address in each comment. However, I do not think I have an all/nothing approach to the subject.

The reason I put focus on the unborn child is simply that this is a human life...a baby that has a will to live, but cannot give a voice to that will in his/her own defense.

I do believe that the way we'll be able to really make a difference in this situation is by focusing on the big picture as well. That does mean doing more than only changing laws, I just don't agree that option should be thrown out because it isn't the only thing needing to be done. I also don't believe that the other things that need to be done to help the situation must come from government initiatives...I do believe in a large place for faith-based outreaches, charity / non-profit outreaches, etc.... Just like was reported in the aftermath of Katrina, when the government was still NOT there doing it's part, there were several Christian outreaches already involved in helping the people. As a Christian, I believe that is what our faith commands us to be doing. We can't all physically do so, but we can all support those who do ...both prayerfully and financially.

I also don't think (for example) that a woman whose physical health or life are TRULY in danger by continuing a pregnancy should be denied the choice of an abortion. The problem I see with this argument is that this is something that happens much more rarely than the Pro-abortion groups would have us believe. It was an argument used for the partial-birth abortion debate and the truth is that, here...it's not even valid. Anyone who has really researched what this procedure actually is would be bound to see that.

We have a great country, but it also has some great problems. They weren't caused solely by one political party or the other and they won't be solved by one or the other either. To really fix our problematic issues, the politicians would have to begin to REALLY WORK TOGETHER...to govern instead of playing politics. Unfortunately, I doubt that it will happen until the millennial reign comes.

I will not refute your experience in visiting clinics, but you must also allow me this belief. Someone who was intimately involved in the abortion clinics on a daily basis would have a more accurate picture of what really goes on ...when there are no visiting media, politicans, etc....

I don't believe that I'm qualified to speak for the entire Church community so I don't have an answer for that one. I wish I knew...all I can do is share my thoughts.

I personally believe that God's intent for His Church was to be 'His hands reaching out to anyone hurting, in crisis, etc....' It is a much larger part of the Church's purpose than has been seen in history. When the Christians didn't do this, the government stepped in and began to...but it wasn't really meant to be a part of the purpose of government and that's why the government hasn't done a great job at it...it wasn't REALLY their job...but someone had to do it.

I'd guess there are quite a few specific reasons why the Church didn't do this, but I doubt that they'll be a legitimate excuses 'come judgement day'. I don't think that the best way for the church to do this 'helping people' outreach is through political action...I just believe they should 'go & do'. Let's not forget that there ARE many ministries who do all kinds of outreaches to people with all kinds of needs...it's just not something that you'll hear very much about on the network/cable news programs. Even so, I agree that more is needed.

I do believe that if the churches will only be faithful to commit to whichever outreach they feel led to do...that God will make a way for them to be successful. He can still provide a way and open closed doors if we only put our faith & trust in Him to do so.

hello again.... RE: "If God can make the rocks cry out praise for His name, then surely he can make governments do the work the churches should be doing."
My knowledge & understanding of God says that although God CAN do ANYTHING...and there is nothing that's impossible for Him...He gave mankind the gift of free will. Therefore, He will not force anyone to do anything. I believe that God deals with people and tries to guide them into making wise & correct decisions...but He will not MAKE them do the right thing.

I can understand your bitter tone about greed in the church...and what I'm going to say is in NO WAY meant to sound like I'm excusing that when it really is there...but... Greed is a big thing among people who aren't a part of the church too and is just as wrong in the one place as it is in the other. Greed is greed whether it's living in a Senator, Doctor, businessman, or a minister.
The thing I'd like to point out here refers to what I said above... Remember that there ARE MANY ministries who do a huge amount of outreach to help hurting people in America and across the world. I follow what several major ministries do in this area...and you'll rarely (if ever) hear about any of it in the secular media.
However, you will hear them making mountains out of molehills over a ministry who owns an airplane, etc... How ridiculous is that when you consider that actually owning one may be a money saver for the ministry and a huge help in that ministry being able to accomplish MUCH more outreach than it could have done without having it? ...And besides, I've never heard a "news story" against Donald Trump's aircrafts or Jay Leno's automobile collection. I don't say this to judge any of them...it's nothing to my life anyway... but from my perspective there's more greed shown by a single person owning, say... 3 vehicles, a speedboat and a fishing boat, and a 4-wheeler, plus a camper and 2 jet-skis than in a ministry owning an airplane that's a useful ministry tool....
...I didn't mean to digress - All of that was just to make the point that there really is a lopsided bias in what people generally hear in the media...it's good to remember that every so often. :-)